L
lwu02eb
Guest
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Great information, thanks for bringing it to our attention LQB.
Great information, thanks for bringing it to our attention LQB.
Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Yes, it seems like the key take-away is to find a good source for pastured non-soy, non-GMO, minimal grain-fed pigs and then check to be sure that the cure is traditional as opposed to liquid smoke, MSG, and other nasties.
lwu02eb said:
Yes, it seems like the key take-away is to find a good source for pastured non-soy, non-GMO, minimal grain-fed pigs and then check to be sure that the cure is traditional as opposed to liquid smoke, MSG, and other nasties.
E
emilien512
Guest
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I have a quick question.
So far I have been able to completely switch to fat and meat on my daily consumption but i cant yet fully drop sugar/carb yet, it seems my body need time to adjust while not dropping in hypoglycemia.
So what would you recommend between :
Grape http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grape
or
Sugar, granulated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar
The latter choice doesn't seem wise, I have heard of minerals/fluoride additives and maybe refined sugar is less efficient for human consumption.
Or something else ?
thx
I have a quick question.
So far I have been able to completely switch to fat and meat on my daily consumption but i cant yet fully drop sugar/carb yet, it seems my body need time to adjust while not dropping in hypoglycemia.
So what would you recommend between :
Grape http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grape
or
Sugar, granulated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar
The latter choice doesn't seem wise, I have heard of minerals/fluoride additives and maybe refined sugar is less efficient for human consumption.
Or something else ?
thx
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Hi eilien - neither of those choices is good. You should absolutely not be on a high fat diet if you are eating any type of sugar or any level of carbohydrates higher than, say,70g per day, though under 50g (or less) is better. This has been pointed out numerous times in this thread. Please read the ENTIRE thread and the linked papers before changing your diet or you are going to cause physical harm to your body. If you can't stop eating sugar, then do not increase fat intake.
emilien512 said:
Hi eilien - neither of those choices is good. You should absolutely not be on a high fat diet if you are eating any type of sugar or any level of carbohydrates higher than, say,70g per day, though under 50g (or less) is better. This has been pointed out numerous times in this thread. Please read the ENTIRE thread and the linked papers before changing your diet or you are going to cause physical harm to your body. If you can't stop eating sugar, then do not increase fat intake.
mcb
The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
If eliminating grains alone doesn't control hypoglycemia, you may be in for extra work. You probably won't correct hypoglycemia by eating sugar, however. You will most likely just keep triggering the reaction if you do that, unless you try a different approach from the one we are taking, in which case we can't help here.
Have you read chapter 16 of Primal Body, Primal Mind -- "Taming the Carb-craving Monster" (as well as the rest of the book)? In addition to reading the posts in these topics, you will need to be familiar with at least the principle books that go with the discussion.
emilien512 said:
If eliminating grains alone doesn't control hypoglycemia, you may be in for extra work. You probably won't correct hypoglycemia by eating sugar, however. You will most likely just keep triggering the reaction if you do that, unless you try a different approach from the one we are taking, in which case we can't help here.
Have you read chapter 16 of Primal Body, Primal Mind -- "Taming the Carb-craving Monster" (as well as the rest of the book)? In addition to reading the posts in these topics, you will need to be familiar with at least the principle books that go with the discussion.
E
emilien512
Guest
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
No books yet but only this forum and the internet, reading the topics one by one in their logic order (still not on KD yet, which is the last)
Thx for the infos, I will look into this chapter.
No books yet but only this forum and the internet, reading the topics one by one in their logic order (still not on KD yet, which is the last)
Thx for the infos, I will look into this chapter.
mcb
The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I think you will need to read the whole book.
It may not be clear now to those catching up on the LWB topic, but we were doing some heavy reading as that topic developed, including Life Without Bread, Primal Body, Primal Mind, and The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living, as well as others such as Deep Nutrition and Why We Get Fat that may not have been read by as many. My head wanted to explode, not from keeping up with the topic but from all the other reading.
If you just read the LWB forum topic without at least reading PBPM, there is quite a bit of quoted material but you could still miss large chunks of important information, particularly if you have issues that were not discussed, and if PBPM were the only book you read, you would still miss out because there is much to be learned from the other books, and from seeing from the points of view of different authors.
PBPM and TAASOLCL are particularly important to read for their information about ketogenic diet, although don't expect them to coincide exactly with what we are doing here. But I think it would be very helpful to have read them before tackling the research papers and other reading cited at the beginning of this (KD) topic.
emilien512 said:
I think you will need to read the whole book.
It may not be clear now to those catching up on the LWB topic, but we were doing some heavy reading as that topic developed, including Life Without Bread, Primal Body, Primal Mind, and The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living, as well as others such as Deep Nutrition and Why We Get Fat that may not have been read by as many. My head wanted to explode, not from keeping up with the topic but from all the other reading.
If you just read the LWB forum topic without at least reading PBPM, there is quite a bit of quoted material but you could still miss large chunks of important information, particularly if you have issues that were not discussed, and if PBPM were the only book you read, you would still miss out because there is much to be learned from the other books, and from seeing from the points of view of different authors.
PBPM and TAASOLCL are particularly important to read for their information about ketogenic diet, although don't expect them to coincide exactly with what we are doing here. But I think it would be very helpful to have read them before tackling the research papers and other reading cited at the beginning of this (KD) topic.
Steve M.
Jedi Master
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
A Ketostix question.
I'm in about 72 hours of adjusting to the KD. Today I bought Ketostix and according to the Urine exam I'm between 40 and 80 (leaning more towards 80). I feel strangely lubed up and super relaxed, it's almost hypnotic, just a serene state of calm. I've had a few minor aches that come and go but generally feel loose and limber with a lot less creaking and clicking. My question is, am I in Ketosis or do I need to add more fats and move toward 100 ppm(?)? I leave the question mark with ppm, as I don't follow what the ketostix is measuring, though I understand it's about how much fat is in the urine, I don't grasp what the measurement is based on. It's rather vague. I'm still reading through this thread, but thought to ask this/these questions, as I went from what was (in my mind) the Paleo diet, to the Ketogenic diet.. cold turkey.
I believe I still have some rough patches ahead. Right now I am able to sleep like a baby (7-8 hours) vs. many nights, for months previously, I would average 4-5 hours and sleeping in was maybe 6 hours at most.
To simplify, my question is, what is the generally preferred reading in/(?)ppm(?)on the Ketostix?
A Ketostix question.
I'm in about 72 hours of adjusting to the KD. Today I bought Ketostix and according to the Urine exam I'm between 40 and 80 (leaning more towards 80). I feel strangely lubed up and super relaxed, it's almost hypnotic, just a serene state of calm. I've had a few minor aches that come and go but generally feel loose and limber with a lot less creaking and clicking. My question is, am I in Ketosis or do I need to add more fats and move toward 100 ppm(?)? I leave the question mark with ppm, as I don't follow what the ketostix is measuring, though I understand it's about how much fat is in the urine, I don't grasp what the measurement is based on. It's rather vague. I'm still reading through this thread, but thought to ask this/these questions, as I went from what was (in my mind) the Paleo diet, to the Ketogenic diet.. cold turkey.
I believe I still have some rough patches ahead. Right now I am able to sleep like a baby (7-8 hours) vs. many nights, for months previously, I would average 4-5 hours and sleeping in was maybe 6 hours at most.
To simplify, my question is, what is the generally preferred reading in/(?)ppm(?)on the Ketostix?
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Hi Balberon,
Ketostix measure the excretion of acetoacetate in the urine. Acetoacetate is one of the three ketone bodies that is produced, when you switch your metabolism over to fat burning. The other two are Acetate and beta-Hydroxybutyrate (BOHB). The last two are not detected by the Ketostix.
When you transition into ketosis your body will initially excrete lots of the ketone bodies into the urine, because your body is unaccustomed to use these ketones to fuel metabolic processes - but this changes over the next two weeks or so, as the body adapts and learns to metabolise ketone bodies. I think that this is one of the reasons that the transition is somewhat painful - the body is temporarily starved of enough energy because it is unable to utilize the ketone bodies.
Also one needs to remember that ketosis is a continuum - it's not either or. The darker the Ketostix, the more you are in ketosis. To know your precise level of ketosis you would need to buy a glucometer which is able to measure (BOHB). The glucometer itself is relatively inexpensive ($50), but the BOHB-measuring strips are not - they cost around $1 each. But if you want to know your exact level of BOHB, that's the way to go.
Over time your body will shift the production of ketone bodies towards BOHB and the amount of acetone in your urine will diminish - that's why generally speaking the Ketositix will loose its sensitivity of measuring levels of ketosis over time (as BOHB is not detected by the Ketostix). After a while in ketosis your Ketostix may even show you no acetone in the urine at all - although in my experience I have always been able to show at least traces of it ...
Hope that helps to clarify the issue ...
Balberon said:
Hi Balberon,
Ketostix measure the excretion of acetoacetate in the urine. Acetoacetate is one of the three ketone bodies that is produced, when you switch your metabolism over to fat burning. The other two are Acetate and beta-Hydroxybutyrate (BOHB). The last two are not detected by the Ketostix.
When you transition into ketosis your body will initially excrete lots of the ketone bodies into the urine, because your body is unaccustomed to use these ketones to fuel metabolic processes - but this changes over the next two weeks or so, as the body adapts and learns to metabolise ketone bodies. I think that this is one of the reasons that the transition is somewhat painful - the body is temporarily starved of enough energy because it is unable to utilize the ketone bodies.
Also one needs to remember that ketosis is a continuum - it's not either or. The darker the Ketostix, the more you are in ketosis. To know your precise level of ketosis you would need to buy a glucometer which is able to measure (BOHB). The glucometer itself is relatively inexpensive ($50), but the BOHB-measuring strips are not - they cost around $1 each. But if you want to know your exact level of BOHB, that's the way to go.
Over time your body will shift the production of ketone bodies towards BOHB and the amount of acetone in your urine will diminish - that's why generally speaking the Ketositix will loose its sensitivity of measuring levels of ketosis over time (as BOHB is not detected by the Ketostix). After a while in ketosis your Ketostix may even show you no acetone in the urine at all - although in my experience I have always been able to show at least traces of it ...
Hope that helps to clarify the issue ...
Foxx
The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I haven't seen blood ketone strips anywhere that cost $1 each--where have you seen them for that price? The cheapest I've seen them for is at Universal Drugstore (someone suggested them on amazon), even cheaper than any I've seen on ebay:
_http://www.universaldrugstore.com/medications/Precision+Xtra+Ketones+Test+Strips/
And those end up being $2/strip. You can get the Precision Xtra meter that they go with for ~$20-$25 on amazon. I haven't seen any of these cheaper on ebay, either.
I just measured my blood ketones with them (even though I've been high fat and protein restricted for almost a year I wanted to confirm that I am actually producing ketones) and it said I was at 6.4 mmol/L.
nicklebleu said:
I haven't seen blood ketone strips anywhere that cost $1 each--where have you seen them for that price? The cheapest I've seen them for is at Universal Drugstore (someone suggested them on amazon), even cheaper than any I've seen on ebay:
_http://www.universaldrugstore.com/medications/Precision+Xtra+Ketones+Test+Strips/
And those end up being $2/strip. You can get the Precision Xtra meter that they go with for ~$20-$25 on amazon. I haven't seen any of these cheaper on ebay, either.
I just measured my blood ketones with them (even though I've been high fat and protein restricted for almost a year I wanted to confirm that I am actually producing ketones) and it said I was at 6.4 mmol/L.
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
That's what I paid in Australia ... maybe they are subsidised.
Foxx said:
That's what I paid in Australia ... maybe they are subsidised.
Psalehesost
The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Short update:
Earlier in the thread I posted about the mishap of reducing protein too much in relying almost entirely on fat bone broth, and losing strength, weight and becoming nauseous when having my fat-filled bone broth as a result. Later, I made an update on having gotten better after upping protein and meal sizes significantly, keeping it that way for a time.
For some time now, I've again cut down on protein, but in a more measured way; I've gotten adaptation symptoms again such as aching legs, etc. Weight remains stable after recovering to what it was before the lack of protein.
Short update:
Earlier in the thread I posted about the mishap of reducing protein too much in relying almost entirely on fat bone broth, and losing strength, weight and becoming nauseous when having my fat-filled bone broth as a result. Later, I made an update on having gotten better after upping protein and meal sizes significantly, keeping it that way for a time.
For some time now, I've again cut down on protein, but in a more measured way; I've gotten adaptation symptoms again such as aching legs, etc. Weight remains stable after recovering to what it was before the lack of protein.
supriyanoel
Jedi
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I must tell you that I've been eating completely differently in the last 8 days and its nothing less than miraculous. Starting with bone broth that I got on the thread about adrenal malfunction, I was very surprised what happened. I have felt for a long time that there was allot going on inside of me that was poisoning me and I came to a decision to do something about it. My hair was falling out in a way that was scary. Maybe 300 hairs a day that I know of, in my hands. Now I like wigs, but now I HAD to wear them.(I was gonna make that thing stay on whether I was in a headstand or downwardfacing-dog, and it did!) Energy and sugar levels were unbalanced. My skin was pasty and scaliness on head and face was continuous.You can't pour vitamins into an unhealthy food-poisoned body and expect them to work. I continued the EE breathing, POTS, and my yoga practice and prayed for the willingness to change. In 2 days, hair that was falling out continuously had stopped. By the end of the week I could grab a fistful and NOTHING! The texture even seemed like it changed. Itching that I had in several places stopped. My energy level were soaring by the 6Th day and the way I communicated with people had changed. I am growing in leaps and bounds. I've had nothing but fatty meats, bone broth 2 times a day(which took away sugar cravings),no sugar at all(some stevia, berries,kale,sweet potato. leafy greens, grapeseed oil, coconut and almond milk,pink salt in water and salad,distilled waster and filtered water(at least 7 12oz glasses, and that's it. If you would of told me I'd be eating like this so soon I'd beg to differ.The bone broth led to the physical changes, but it started with the knowledge I got on the forum. I am ready. And the teacher does feel like an ascended master in training.LOL, but seriously, I became willing because it was the only way to possibly be a candidate for anything of value, starting with a cleaner 3D being. Then the possibility of a higher candidacy. Detox off anything is uncomfortable because release is a transformation. One I am ecstatic to make. Never would of made it without you guys. I know this. I have so much to learn and the motivator is HAVING to eat and not willing to give up how I feel and who I am because of it. There is an uncomfortibility, yes. Why wouldn't there be when releasing the most powerful poisons on the planet that are sold over the counter with relish? My PALMS are actually stinking! It smell's like toxins from cigs, although I don't smoke. Heavy metals and all the rest of the garbage. The way and content of what I am expressing to people and students are all the things I've been repressing. In turn some are revealing secrets about drugs they are taking for mental problems and situations that have happened that have that have been carefully hidden and NEVER expressed to anyone. I have asked to be effective and yes, it seems to ascending to another plateau. If one person is helped by whatever it is that is expressed by me, good. I'm doing my job. I've also discussed how much a student I really am and a beginner in so many areas. Like nutrition. I do send some people to this site to start reading the threads and posts before they start to DO anything. Learning by my past ignorance's. Which are enormous. WE are WHAT WE EAT! How insane to think I know anything if I can't implement change in my own body by what I put into it! Well ,yeah you can give some seemingly profound messages and be dying with disease at the same time. The message there is don't believe what you see. People are always complementing me on how I look.I tell them that it is a lie. Don't judge the cover. We lie when it suits us. I tell them it was smoke and mirrors. Inside is another story. Maybe now someone will benefit from that revelation. Great if they do but now it is time for me to live the life I've been denying myself. If the message is delivered by a mess who doesn't walk the walk it is insanity and unnecessary, when the tools are there. I payed attention as best as I could and released a lot I was holding onto. Getting honest, asking for help by those who I respect and following through. I am awake in a way I never was. 8 days. I am sorry about the lack of paragraphing. Please bear with me. I WILL GET PROFICIANT. I have a lot to read and understand.There was brain fog and resistant en masse in my body. Can understand abstract concepts but impatient when having to tie the shoes.That is not the balance I need. I also have hepatitis C and diabetes runs in my family. I will now be able to get blood tests to see where I'm at. If anyone can provide info on what kind of a doctor to go to for this and what to ask for to cover as much ground as possible please let me know. What I do know is that I am on the superhighway and intend to stay. Money is scarce so I need to make the correct choices on how to view whats going on inside. I will say one more thing. The upside to the hurricane that visited me and many others is it kickstarted my desire to live as very best and as high as possible. The only real disaster would be for me to think I had one more day to live mindlessly, in denial.Now it doesn't matter that I sell my home home and get out of Dodge, because the only REAL Dodge is in my thinking.It only matters first WHO and WHAT I choose and where I am inside. This is the chance of a lifetime, and one I may never get again if I choose the insanity of becoming food for powers that do not have my highest growth in mind. The thanks that I give Laura and all the rest is immeasurable and my best thanks is really utilizing what has been given and receiving it all.
I must tell you that I've been eating completely differently in the last 8 days and its nothing less than miraculous. Starting with bone broth that I got on the thread about adrenal malfunction, I was very surprised what happened. I have felt for a long time that there was allot going on inside of me that was poisoning me and I came to a decision to do something about it. My hair was falling out in a way that was scary. Maybe 300 hairs a day that I know of, in my hands. Now I like wigs, but now I HAD to wear them.(I was gonna make that thing stay on whether I was in a headstand or downwardfacing-dog, and it did!) Energy and sugar levels were unbalanced. My skin was pasty and scaliness on head and face was continuous.You can't pour vitamins into an unhealthy food-poisoned body and expect them to work. I continued the EE breathing, POTS, and my yoga practice and prayed for the willingness to change. In 2 days, hair that was falling out continuously had stopped. By the end of the week I could grab a fistful and NOTHING! The texture even seemed like it changed. Itching that I had in several places stopped. My energy level were soaring by the 6Th day and the way I communicated with people had changed. I am growing in leaps and bounds. I've had nothing but fatty meats, bone broth 2 times a day(which took away sugar cravings),no sugar at all(some stevia, berries,kale,sweet potato. leafy greens, grapeseed oil, coconut and almond milk,pink salt in water and salad,distilled waster and filtered water(at least 7 12oz glasses, and that's it. If you would of told me I'd be eating like this so soon I'd beg to differ.The bone broth led to the physical changes, but it started with the knowledge I got on the forum. I am ready. And the teacher does feel like an ascended master in training.LOL, but seriously, I became willing because it was the only way to possibly be a candidate for anything of value, starting with a cleaner 3D being. Then the possibility of a higher candidacy. Detox off anything is uncomfortable because release is a transformation. One I am ecstatic to make. Never would of made it without you guys. I know this. I have so much to learn and the motivator is HAVING to eat and not willing to give up how I feel and who I am because of it. There is an uncomfortibility, yes. Why wouldn't there be when releasing the most powerful poisons on the planet that are sold over the counter with relish? My PALMS are actually stinking! It smell's like toxins from cigs, although I don't smoke. Heavy metals and all the rest of the garbage. The way and content of what I am expressing to people and students are all the things I've been repressing. In turn some are revealing secrets about drugs they are taking for mental problems and situations that have happened that have that have been carefully hidden and NEVER expressed to anyone. I have asked to be effective and yes, it seems to ascending to another plateau. If one person is helped by whatever it is that is expressed by me, good. I'm doing my job. I've also discussed how much a student I really am and a beginner in so many areas. Like nutrition. I do send some people to this site to start reading the threads and posts before they start to DO anything. Learning by my past ignorance's. Which are enormous. WE are WHAT WE EAT! How insane to think I know anything if I can't implement change in my own body by what I put into it! Well ,yeah you can give some seemingly profound messages and be dying with disease at the same time. The message there is don't believe what you see. People are always complementing me on how I look.I tell them that it is a lie. Don't judge the cover. We lie when it suits us. I tell them it was smoke and mirrors. Inside is another story. Maybe now someone will benefit from that revelation. Great if they do but now it is time for me to live the life I've been denying myself. If the message is delivered by a mess who doesn't walk the walk it is insanity and unnecessary, when the tools are there. I payed attention as best as I could and released a lot I was holding onto. Getting honest, asking for help by those who I respect and following through. I am awake in a way I never was. 8 days. I am sorry about the lack of paragraphing. Please bear with me. I WILL GET PROFICIANT. I have a lot to read and understand.There was brain fog and resistant en masse in my body. Can understand abstract concepts but impatient when having to tie the shoes.That is not the balance I need. I also have hepatitis C and diabetes runs in my family. I will now be able to get blood tests to see where I'm at. If anyone can provide info on what kind of a doctor to go to for this and what to ask for to cover as much ground as possible please let me know. What I do know is that I am on the superhighway and intend to stay. Money is scarce so I need to make the correct choices on how to view whats going on inside. I will say one more thing. The upside to the hurricane that visited me and many others is it kickstarted my desire to live as very best and as high as possible. The only real disaster would be for me to think I had one more day to live mindlessly, in denial.Now it doesn't matter that I sell my home home and get out of Dodge, because the only REAL Dodge is in my thinking.It only matters first WHO and WHAT I choose and where I am inside. This is the chance of a lifetime, and one I may never get again if I choose the insanity of becoming food for powers that do not have my highest growth in mind. The thanks that I give Laura and all the rest is immeasurable and my best thanks is really utilizing what has been given and receiving it all.
osher
Jedi
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Not everybody here is able to read fast enough in english. For me catching up with this thread (especially the beginning) when i had lots of work was at a tempo of 2 pages a day, together with articles attached. I am grateful to everybody here for doing the research and sharing their knowledge, as i would not be able to do it myself. I will contribute differently, i hope. Also i figured some things about being in ketosis before starting to read this thread. So if one is reading sott and the forum he/she should be enough informed, i suppose, enough to not do self harm and to gain health. But the books would be the starting point to discussion and research of course, a level up.
I have fallen out of ketosis in last weeks and i'm getting back in (sweet chocolate-poison/drug...). What i understand now (observing my body) is that all plant products are unwanted, though some may help sometimes (garlic, some herbs) and few can be accepted (tea/yerba mate/coffee-not for me, some spices).
I'm not sure about necessity to divide daily amount of protein. I feel great eating one meal in the middle of the day that's high in protein (and fat) and only broth or something fatty with little/no protein in the morning and possibly evening. I only once had a feeling similar to eating sugar/carbohydrate meal - a sign of sugar/insulin rising due to too much protein ingested.
Megan said:
Not everybody here is able to read fast enough in english. For me catching up with this thread (especially the beginning) when i had lots of work was at a tempo of 2 pages a day, together with articles attached. I am grateful to everybody here for doing the research and sharing their knowledge, as i would not be able to do it myself. I will contribute differently, i hope. Also i figured some things about being in ketosis before starting to read this thread. So if one is reading sott and the forum he/she should be enough informed, i suppose, enough to not do self harm and to gain health. But the books would be the starting point to discussion and research of course, a level up.
I have fallen out of ketosis in last weeks and i'm getting back in (sweet chocolate-poison/drug...). What i understand now (observing my body) is that all plant products are unwanted, though some may help sometimes (garlic, some herbs) and few can be accepted (tea/yerba mate/coffee-not for me, some spices).
I'm not sure about necessity to divide daily amount of protein. I feel great eating one meal in the middle of the day that's high in protein (and fat) and only broth or something fatty with little/no protein in the morning and possibly evening. I only once had a feeling similar to eating sugar/carbohydrate meal - a sign of sugar/insulin rising due to too much protein ingested.
I can assure you, you will feel even better eliminating grapeseed, coconut and almond oil and all fiber rich leaves.supriyanoel said: