Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[theos]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm not sure about necessity to divide daily amount of protein. I feel great eating one meal in the middle of the day that's high in protein (and fat) and only broth or something fatty with little/no protein in the morning and possibly evening. I only once had a feeling similar to eating sugar/carbohydrate meal - a sign of sugar/insulin rising due to too much protein ingested.

Several sources have indicated that eating protein above @23grams per meal will convert the excess into glucose as the body only uses small amounts at a time. It's better to divide your protein throughout the day. This is discussed throughout the thread. Also see Primal Body, Primal Mind for more on this.

 

[osher]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Understood. Thank you.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

With my temperature being so low, it's no wonder I have an aversion to cold. I am wondering, however -- could some sort of cold therapy actually increase body temperature?

Well, it has certainly made more cold resistance all those who had tried, however "painful" it is at the beginning. Cold therapy is meant to improve metabolism as well.

The tricky thing with T3 is that it is one of those things that go down in longevity research, the concept being that thermogenesis is not good for health and that is why we restrict our protein intake. Even your low T3 levels might indicate that you are "on track" and that perhaps you need to work more on your adrenal fatigue thing (i.e. physiological doses of cortisol which will help balance all hormones including thyroid ones)
...

I have started to go through the AHS 2012 videos, and this subject is coming up there as well. It actually does fit with the low T3/high rT3 pattern that I am seeing, and supplementing with T3 has not affected my temperature at all so far. I may just need to focus on other things; this could be normal for me.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan, I had the idea that if I could just get the adrenal fatigue straightened out and get my sleep normalized, that other things would begin to take care of themselves. That seems to have been the case. Keep in mind that I took armour thyroid for something like 20 years and it was just messing me up as far as I can see now. I don't take any thyroid meds anymore - haven't for ten years.

Yes, that seems to be where I need to concentrate too, although I don't know yet if there is very much I can do apart from the ketogenic diet and the suggestions you made earlier. It seems to be time again to eliminate the rest of the plant food try to give the colon a rest.

I have had very little to eat other than meat and fat over the last four weeks, and I am not experiencing the degree of symptoms that I had previously. In particular, there is no sign of liver pain this time. There is some mild internal pain, especially when the cats stomp on me, but it is not increasing. I think it is coming from my colon. I am feeling pretty much my usual, otherwise. Each attempt at going zero carb has fewer side effects. (We'll see if I still can say that in another week. :))

There is something else affecting my gut that is non-physical, and I wonder how much of what I am feeling is due to that. I have been seeing more and more of the world we live in and how it works. Right now I am reading Why Nations Fail, and while the author doesn't really seem to get it (pathocracy, especially), and even though I already knew quite a bit about it, the story he tells still hits me right in the gut. It's probably good practice for reading your upcoming books.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The tricky thing with T3 is that it is one of those things that go down in longevity research, the concept being that thermogenesis is not good for health and that is why we restrict our protein intake. Even your low T3 levels might indicate that you are "on track" and that perhaps you need to work more on your adrenal fatigue thing (i.e. physiological doses of cortisol which will help balance all hormones including thyroid ones)
...

I have started to go through the AHS 2012 videos, and this subject is coming up there as well. It actually does fit with the low T3/high rT3 pattern that I am seeing, and supplementing with T3 has not affected my temperature at all so far. I may just need to focus on other things; this could be normal for me.

I started the physiological cortisol protocol despite that my energy levels are good. I find I can focus more and I feel less inflamed after chaotic night shifts when I sleep only one hour. It takes me at least 4 days to start recovering from a night shift. With the cortisol I start recovering right away.

I so recommend adrenal support as a complement for those who are having troubleshooting with this diet during these stressful times. It is good!

 

[Steve M.]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

small update: Struggling along trying to get on the bandwagon as cold turkey floundered. I'm still not caught up on this topic and learning more about the core of what the Ketogenic diet is. Been getting some help from others in other social networks.

I had no idea of what forms of slavery I was under until (once again) I fought against coffee. Still struggling. I did read across Laura's statement about it here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28799.msg362604.html#msg362604

Laura said:

coffee has the same effect as gluten? Are you aware that casein has a similar effect as gluten? That tomatoes and peppers are the chief triggers of arthritic conditions?

Anyhow, the following links come from those persons who are/have been helping me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLClqy5CbTQ&feature=share It's pat!
http://vimeo.com/52876035 A discussion by Nora T. Gedgaudas Author of the book Primal Body, Primal Mind
http://vimeo.com/55471861 David Pendergrass - Paleo Nutrition and the brain

I've a long 5-6 weeks ahead of me.. going from 4-6 cups a day to 2 to 1, but today as I was struggling with it.. I went and found a product to try and curb this need to pacify on a mocha, french vanilla, coffee, toxic elixir.
_http://www.amazon.com/Lets-Do-Organic-Creamed-Coconut/dp/B00113ZZ5U (no commercials _ )

It does contain some sugars 2g per serving (7 servings per box) but is 80% (18g) saturated fat. I thus far do agree, 0 sugar is of prime importance, but if it keeps the coffee demon at bay while I tap into great health (and I think I'm really improving and seeing change rapidly) I'll indulge.. for now.

I don't think my weight is changing, but I do seem to be sizing down toward my size & leanness as when I was in my 20's. I used to weigh 155-160lbs. (70-72.5K) and am now at a solid 180lbs. (81.6k) which hasn't changed even while I was doing my make-shift Paleo diet. Yet now I'm once again going down toward a 28"(71.1) waste. My makeshift Paleo diet got me from a 34"(86.4cm) waste to a 30"(76.2cm), which hadn't changed in over a year.

As one of the persons said to me, as far as the Ketogenic diet, you don't want to run your engine on unleaded and after all these years try mixing between unleaded and diesel. Change from one, to the other, but don't do both. In much fewer words. :)

I've had a few bouts of pain, mostly in the lower ribs and upper middle back here and there. Pretty sure I've got a ways to go, but am headin'. I'm really thankful to you all for the sharing you're doing. Gonna keep at it, get up to speed on this topic and try and keep up, while hoping to share in the adventure. :)

To those struggling with some form of addiction, it's actually easy to find a pacify.. heh, even a dummy could do it.
[me=Balberon]points finger at self [/me]

 

[Gimpy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Update: The pain has eased. Digestion is still a problem, and may be for a little while. It's forced me to skim some of the fat off my bone broth, and reduce the amount I drink of it. That means three or four small cups through a day, not one or two big soup bowls full.

Drinking bone broth in any quantity still puts me to sleep, with pain when I wake up. Each time the pain is less. I make myself ride the recumbent stationary bike, and lift weights periodically through the day. My weight is down to 150-55, and seems stable.

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Update: The pain has eased. Digestion is still a problem, and may be for a little while. It's forced me to skim some of the fat off my bone broth, and reduce the amount I drink of it. That means three or four small cups through a day, not one or two big soup bowls full.

Drinking bone broth in any quantity still puts me to sleep, with pain when I wake up. Each time the pain is less. I make myself ride the recumbent stationary bike, and lift weights periodically through the day. My weight is down to 150-55, and seems stable.

That is great to hear Gimpy :D I hope the pain continues to reduce.

Today at work I was offered an exotic tiny organic berry. So I ate it out of curiosity (usually I don't do this at all), but I took it, and the customer eating it said it tasted sour which I thought would be better than sweet (but to me it tasted quite sweet actually). Anyhow, interestingly, within 10 minutes or so, my fingers of my left hand started to ache. It felt like joint pain. It went away after some time, but that just shows to me that the tiniest bit of carbs can have quite an effect. Just imagine what many carbs would do... Fwiw.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have been reading the new version of Paul Jaminet's The Perfect Health Diet that was just released and finding much well researched and documented information. I did not read the original version, and I don't know what is new in this edition, but I am encountering lots of material that seems to call for further investigation (for me, at least) be it new or old.

Jaminet is the instigator of the "safe starch" debate -- he coined the term. His regular diet that he recommends for most people is not ketogenic, and not really applicable here although I have no doubt that it would be a vast improvement over a SAD/western diet. It is still based on research that is worth considering. The ketogenic version of the diet will be much more familiar, but with differences that are worth thinking about at the very least, especially for those having problems staying on a VLC ketogenic diet. I don't think that he has all the answers, but then I don't think we do either.

Jaminet makes a number of points that I find especially interesting. One is his idea that appetite and weight control are tied ultimately to nutrition, not food volume or macronutrient ratios. According to this thinking, you can have an ideal macronutrient ratio (according to his model or whatever one you prefer) and be consuming all the calories you need, and still be hungry -- if you are missing important micronutrients. Your appetite will always do its job, but you may still gain weight if your diet is nutrient deficient because you are not getting enough of some foods. (I don't know what the implications are for people that have trouble maintaining weight.) So if cravings persist long after you have gone through the initial keto-adaptation, you might want to consider the possibility that something important is missing from your diet, something that you personally need.

What I have found most interesting so far is the information about gut flora, fiber, and what the colon does. Ever since I learned about ketogenic diet I have been wondering what the colon is really for. If you cut out plant foods altogether, not all that much material comes through to the colon. Ours may be small compared with that of herbivores and apes, but it is still a lot of organ to be sitting there doing not much. Why didn't we evolve a carnivore-like GI tract, if a meat-only ketogenic diet is optimal?

Well, obviously, if you are going to take over and dominate the planet (as humans have) it can be useful to have a backup system for digesting plant foods. But is the colon just part of a backup system, to be used only when the best foods are not available? I am just starting to find solid information and I don't have all the answers, but I have not found anything that would suggest that the colon is a vestigial organ.

Everything I have read -- apart from perhaps a few passages in PBPM -- suggests that paleolithic humans ate plants, including tubers and fruit. They may even have been eating starchy plants before cooking came along (yuck!). There are limits to what we can presently determine about their diet, but solid evidence exists for a diet of both meat and plant foods.

A clue can be found in ruminants -- cattle, sheep, and goats. While their digestive systems are constructed for digesting plants, they don't burn carbs(!). This is because the bacteria that they host scavenge all of the carbs, leaving none for the host animal. But these symbiotic bacteria give something back -- volatile short-chain fatty acids. These are sent to the liver, where they are used for energy and to make sugars, ketones, and fats for the rest of the animal to use.

Human GI tracts are different, of course, but the end result is similar -- a healthy colon populated with symbiotic bacteria can turn a variety of otherwise indigestible materials into very useful ketogenic fuel. That is what "fiber" is good for. Not just any fiber, though. Some of the fiber found in grains, as we already know, is mainly good for shredding your gut. Unbelievably, Jaminet quotes one doctor that thinks gut-shredding is a good thing! But some indigestible residue -- fiber or otherwise -- can be transformed by the right bacteria into some very useful nutrients including butyrate (cousin of βOHB), a 4-carbon saturated fat.

So that is something else to think about. I still have much of this book yet to read, and I don't expect the book to provide a complete picture by itself, but I wanted to take a break to mention a few of these things.

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have been on pretty strict KD for many months (my mother too for less time) and things have been going great (for both of us) – plenty of energy, clear head, regular BMs (daily) – no complaints or issues until just before Xmas. A sharp pain in the right rear mid-back was followed by growing pain during urination. I knew that this was probably a kidney stone(s) since I had this happen many years ago (probably due, then, to chronic dehydration).

Anyway, my urine turned dark brown for about 6 hours, and then returned to the normal clear with yellow tint. The dark brown looked to me like oxidized blood and immediately reminded me of the black tea that I have been brewing/drinking by the pot over the last year. I stopped all tea consumption immediately.

I thought I was recovering quickly until I began having much more severe urge to and pain during urination - high levels of pain that seemed to radiate from the lower bladder and urethra. I thought that a stone may have cut me on passage. So I started doing some research on the problem.

Oxalates are the most common stones and some folks form them more easily than others. I noticed that tea (black tea) is high on the list for containing water-soluble oxalates and that there are many oxalate-forming compounds out there. Some are more soluble in oil, some in water. Cinnamon for example is high in oxalates that are oil-soluble, not water-soluble.

Well, I thought I was clever making a tasty black tea brew by using a coffee maker/filter basket in which I put the tea, cinnamon powder, licorice root powder, Guardian spirit tea (about ½ tsp - sheep sorrel, burdock root and slippery elm) and topped off with about 2 tablespoons of ghee. I must have been getting a pretty good dose of oxalate-forming compounds daily with both oil and water solvents. The tea is gone now and if I reintroduce it in the future, it will be made in the traditional way with any oil added after brewing.

I was talking with a friend about his near-continuous battle with kidney stones, and asked him if his urine had ever turned dark brown – he said yes, but not since he had quit drinking sodas (years ago).

So, I thought the problem was solved and that I was just left with the after effects of the stone(s). It was only in Nov that I had a comprehensive set of blood panels that showed all normal (except elevated cholesterol) – HA1C, T4, cortisol, and TSH were all mid-range normal.
But the severe pain/discomfort didn’t seem right. I noticed that it was associated with the colon and that even the smallest BM produced massive relief in the urinary tract (it seemed like the prostate was involved). Thinking that there might be a blockage of some kind, I decided to induce a complete emptying via Vit C plus Mg malate. Things emptied out and there was great relief but it slowly returned – and again, any small BM produced relief. So I decided to do a mild coffee enema (yesterday) to really clean things out. The result was a return to very near normal with no pain.

This made me think that the problem in the colon may be related to the wrong bacteria or the loss of some good bacteria (maybe both). So, last night about 2 hrs before bed I took 50B probiotic with water on an empty stomach. A half hour later I consumed 2-3 tablespoons of almond butter (2-3 grams carb, 4-6 grams fiber) followed by another 50B probiotic (the probiotic is broad spectrum with several strains of lactobacillus, bifidobacterium and one strain streptococcus).

I slept through the night with no interruption! And in the morning, everything felt completely normal – no signs or symptoms up to this time of posting.

Based on my experience it seems that these two problems were unrelated and just happened to occur at the same time. For the time being I’m doing some coffee in the morning since, for me, it definitely stimulates a daily BM.

The bigger question for me is what’s really going on in my colon?

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Sorry to hear about your troubles, LQB. Hope you feel better soon and are also able to answer some of the questions you've raised.

Maybe continue to observe and try eliminating different things. Coffee is also high in oxalic acid, if memory serves. The pain in the urethra/lower bladder really sucks, I know from experience (prostatitis). Drinking more distilled water may possibly help with the kidney stones too. In the case of prostate problems -- prostatitis which is preceded by prostate enlargement, colon/bowel issues could complicate it. These are biochemical imbalances from high carb/wrong diets which lead to the enlargement and can lead to prostatitis and recurring urinary tract infections (most likely candida is involve as well) but what you have may not be related to all that, don't know.

If I think of anything else to suggest, I'll post again, as I'm getting ready to go to bed soon. Best wishes to you and maybe others will have more helpful input.

 

[emilien512]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Update:

Used to drink tea in excess (all sorts) for about 5 months. And successfully dropped it since a week. It was extremely painful, in constant fear, doubt, and couldn't sleep more than 4 hours at night, was very cold also. Since I few days I had no more craving of it and feels better than before.
This tread helped a lot :
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,488.45.html

I am B+ blood type and used to drink milk since I was born. Without knowledge, I just got tired of it 2 years ago and dropped it but still couldn't let go of some products that contain milk (so I was consuming very small quantities in comparison). Yesterday I drank a cup of whole cattle milk just for testing, it was painful, bad memories coming back, bad body odors (just after a few hours), the taste was well but once it was inside, a real horror. 1 day and it went away.

I recently came up with pork as it is cheaper than most meat. Some of the symptoms I had was because of it, when I stopped it, many illness went away. In Adamo books it says Pork should be avoided.

So from now I content myself with Beef, Salmon, Olive oil, Lemon juice and intend this very strictly, I will give some update after a while.

 

[Hildegarda]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

thank you for those recent messages. i have been having similar problems despite doing things right. i think i may have some oxalate issues as well.

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Sorry to hear about your troubles, LQB. Hope you feel better soon and are also able to answer some of the questions you've raised.

Maybe continue to observe and try eliminating different things. Coffee is also high in oxalic acid, if memory serves. The pain in the urethra/lower bladder really sucks, I know from experience (prostatitis). Drinking more distilled water may possibly help with the kidney stones too. In the case of prostate problems -- prostatitis which is preceded by prostate enlargement, colon/bowel issues could complicate it. These are biochemical imbalances from high carb/wrong diets which lead to the enlargement and can lead to prostatitis and recurring urinary tract infections (most likely candida is involve as well) but what you have may not be related to all that, don't know.

If I think of anything else to suggest, I'll post again, as I'm getting ready to go to bed soon. Best wishes to you and maybe others will have more helpful input.

Thanks ST - much appreciated here. I think the black tea brew I was drinking for the last year is the main culprit on the kidney stone(s) - for me anyway, I think I was adding the wrong things and brewing the wrong way. In any event, that is over for a good while. As far as the colon issue, I'm not sure what to think. The speed of deterioration matched the rate of recovery and I'm still symptom-free this eve just before bedtime - what a relief. At the time of the worst of it, I remember thinking that I could not wish this on an enemy.

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

thank you for those recent messages. i have been having similar problems despite doing things right. i think i may have some oxalate issues as well.

Have you got some symptoms that make you think that Hildegarda?