Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[shijing]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have had a few pike lately with eggs and was wondering if anyone knows of a way to prepare them? My neighbor said he tried cooking them once but they were like leather.

If it's fish eggs, that would basically be caviar, wouldn't it? Could you eat it raw, and maybe make a butter-garlic sauce to put over it? I'm not sure if there are any health concerns regarding the consumption of raw fish eggs or not, but different kinds of roe are served in restaurants.

 

[cazamara]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

1CUP (250g) BEEF BONE BROTH

23.75g protein + 12.5g fat

beef bones (raw) = Amounts per 100 grams (3.5oz) = total fat 7.4g + protein 11.3g

It looks like a lot of protein per cup.

When I searched for the protein content of bone broth I found that there must be around 7 gr of protein per cup.

Hi Goemon_,

I really don't know...

For most of my calculations I used this site:

_http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/recipe/2422683/2

And, according to them, serving size (100g) = 9.5g protein/5.1g fat. That' s where I got this 23.75g protein...

1 cup (250g) = 9.5 + 9.5 + 4.75 = 23.75g protein

But, since your calculation is so much different, I've searched for more results for bone broth nutrition facts. It seams that there aren't good nutrition studies on bone broth out there yet.

This is what I found:

_http://recipes.sparkpeople.com/recipe-calories.asp?recipe=2041648

* beef bone broth, grass fed (1 serving = 8oz = 227g) = Protein 6.4 / Fat 4g

And, in this one: _http://tracker.dailyburn.com/nutrition/bone_broth_calories

* bone broth nutrition facts, serving size 1 cup = Protein 3.6g / Fat 3g

Honestly, I'm totally lost here...

 

[cazamara]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks Paulo for your account. It never occurred to me to have Sauerkraut juice, I love Sauerkraut ...

Dinner @ 6pm 5 sardines

:P I just imagined my husband's face if that would be our dinner, hehe ...
Not sure if it's good to have such a copious amount of fish at once though, think heavy metal toxicity and the fact that you want to GAIN weight ...

Also you might want to reconsider the mushrooms on your meal plan.

I love salt-buttered tea, too, it's my favorite staple.
Re: your constipation, you have to amp up your magnesium intake, especially in the first weeks you need a lot (for some reason), later the problem goes away by itself (my guess is it's the lacking fiber, and the body just needs to readjust)

M.T.

Thank you Minas Tirith for your comments!

Sauerkraut had never been part of my diet before, but I'm just discovering that I really love it. I found a good recipe for making sour cabbage heads for my stuffed sour cabbage rolls, and I also use it chopped for the salad. I found a few hearty sauerkraut recipes that are really delicious and very good for this diet. It is said that sauerkraut juice is very good source for Vitamin C and excellent probiotic (very cheap one as well!!!). The good thing is that I also really like drinking it, which I do whenever I remember throughout the day.

I'm taking now 4 magnesium capsules (120mg) instead of 2 before going to sleep and additional 2 in the afternoon. It seems to be helpful! From what I've read so far, it seems there is no limitation for the magnesium intake until the stool becomes too lose at which point we should start decreasing our dosage???

What did you mean about mushrooms?

Gaby: “Mushrooms are pretty good because they are very low carb, but if you have histamine problems (i.e. itchy rashes), then they're best avoided because it makes those problems worse. They're also generally discouraged if there are fungal infections."

In addition to what Gaby said, is there something else we need to consider?

I always liked mushrooms, but I used to eat them just occasionally. With this diet change, and the fact that mushrooms are so feeling and very low in carbs, I thought it might be a good choice. I would usually have about 2 cups of sliced raw mushrooms per week, 1 cup per serving.

MUSHROOMS

Amount Per 1 cup (54 g)
 = 0.3g fat + 1.6g carbs + 0.8g protein

(Vitamin D 28%, Iron 10%, Magnesium 1%)

RE: Sardines & heavy metal toxicity

It's true that sardines (blue fish) are a little heavy for a dinner choice, much better to have them for lunch. But, that day I just had bought them fresh from my fish market, they got them fresh from Portugal. We usually eat some fresh the same day and the rest we put in plastic bag and store in freezer. We usually have them twice a week and, I dunno, I thought 5 small sardines per serving (15g protein/7g fat) would be a proper quantity...

1 Small Sardine = protein 3g/fat 1.4 g/carbs 0g (great source for Vitamin B-12; 18%)

And for the heavy metal toxicity, again I don't know, but from what I've read on the subject it seams that sardines are left as the safest choice...

_http://www.livestrong.com/article/550938-health-risks-of-eating-sardines/

"Quote
Good News
While certain fish such as shark, marlin and swordfish contain higher levels of mercury, sardines are classed among the lowest mercury-containing fish. The American Pregnancy Association advises that pregnant women and those looking to conceive should limit their intake to two 6-ounce servings each week. For otherwise healthy individuals, a higher intake than this shouldn't be an issue.
End Quote"
_http://www.sarahwilson.com/2012/07/why-you-should-eat-sardines-and-how-to-avoid-mercury-in-your-fish/

why you should eat sardines…and how to avoid mercury in your fish

_http://liveto110.com/sardines-are-the-safest-fish-on-the-planet/

"Quote

Sardines Are The Safest Fish On The Planet

With growing concern over the health of the seas, people are turning to sardines for the essential nutrients found in fish. Sardines are at the bottom of the aquatic food chain, feeding solely on plankton. As a result, they do not concentrate as much heavy metals like mercury and other contaminants found in most fish. Why not? They don’t live long enough to accumulate too much mercury. They live as long as 14 years of age, but about 90 percent of the population is under 6 years old.

End Quote"

_http://drlwilson.com/Articles/SARDINES.htm

SARDINES - ONE OF THE BEST FOODS TODAY
by Lawrence Wilson, MD
"Quote
3. Low in mercury. The small size of the sardine means that it has less opportunity to pick up and accumulate mercury. The skinless and boneless sardines are even lower in mercury, with up to 50% less mercury than regular sardines because apparently the mercury concentrates in the sardine’s spinal cord that is removed in the boneless ones.
All of the larger fish, even salmon, can concentrate mercury up to a million times more than the lowly sardine. I do not agree with some health authorities who recommend some of the larger fish. They are nutritious, but they are very high in mercury and I find the mercury shows up quickly on hair mineral tests if one eat even one serving of salmon per week, for example. To read more, please read Mercury on this website.

These are the main reasons for eating sardines. Most adults need 3 to 4 cans weekly of the 3.75 ounce cans.
End Quote"

 

[cazamara]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just wanted to mention that the constipation will eventually sort it's self out, but my experience is that constipation on the ketogenic diet is much less uncomfortable than being constipated on a regular diet. I used to get constipated only when traveling years ago for some reason when eating a regular diet, and it used to really make me feel sluggish. Whereas the couple of times I've been constipated on the ketogenic diet (e.g. no bowel movement for a couple of days), I don't feel any different than having bowel movements every day. I still have the problem of loose stools more often than constipation when going overboard with daily fat consumption by 25 to 30 grams of fat - it's a fine line to get to just that point of having enough fat without starting to get loose stools as I'm always trying to hit 75% to 85% of daily calories in healthy fats (and usually have 5 to 10 grams of net carbs max). For what it's worth.

Thank you very much for your comments. I don't really remember myself being constipated on a regular diet, but when I switched to paleo diet, that was a major problem for me. Fat bomb helped a lot in that respect. Now that I'm taking so much fat (85% fat and usually 5-10, occasionally a little over but not more than 15g net carbs), from what I understand, it'll take some time for the body to adjust and be able to digest on it's own. It seems that the increase of magnesium intake helps, I'll give it a few days and see what happens. Apart from the hard stool, I don't feel any discomfort than when having bowel movements every day either. Once the body adjusts to properly digesting the fat, I can imagine, we should be careful with daily fat consumption. Thanks!

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, paulo, it's tricky when I overdue the fat by just another 25 to 30 grams or so, but not always. Anyway I'm not so meticulous with all the numbers, I estimate and just concentrate on getting at least 75% of daily calories from fat. I can digest a lot of fat now, but there's a limit before loose stools start. This diet is great in that, once fully adapted, it's not so important whether you consistently get 75% of calories or 80% or 85% from fat - and it can change at what point stools become loose (depending on what else is being eaten in the form of protein, I guess). Most days I have less than 3 grams of net carbs, by the way.

 

[Aiming]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

And for the heavy metal toxicity, again I don't know, but from what I've read on the subject it seams that sardines are left as the safest choice...

That's also been my understanding. However, talking about heavy metal toxicity, in the meal plan you've shared above you mention eating tuna, and tuna, like any large fish, contains very high levels of mercury, so it would be good to avoid it.

 

[Chrissy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, I'm a no-go on nuts. I used to eat them like crazy, while on keto, but once I eliminated them and reintroduced, they proved to upset my stomach, give me headaches, and generally make me feel crappy. There was a time that I could eat bags of cashews and macadamias in one sitting because I loved them, but now I don't have any kind of cravings for them.

I had to eliminate nuts also. I was getting pain in my left side and after testing, it was the nuts.

On another note, my son, almost 15, is working hard to maintain ketosis. He's had some starts and stops between paleo and keto in the last 2 years or so. Right now he says he's mid range per the urine sticks and keeping the carbs under 20. I read you shouldn't limit protein for a child so he hasn't. I think his total carbs are probably higher due to that. His normal day is 2 eggs fried in lard for breakfast with sometimes bacon or sausage. He takes ham rolled with butter for lunch with a few pickles and a meat stick from the farm. Or he takes leftovers from dinner. Dinner is primarily meat which he adds butter too. We usually make a side of non starchy vegetable like green beans, onions, or mushrooms. He doesn't much care for the fat bomb, but he does like the pork rind bread. He's pretty active with sports and very tall for his age, about 6'1" now. He seems to be doing well so far and has only had a bit of leg cramps, but I gave him Mg supplements and I have the oil.

Considering his age and growth, I worry I'm missing something like additional supplements. He doesn't seem hungry and his energy is good, but I wanted to check here. I've tried to keep this easy for him and not have him count grams of protein or fat. I want him to keep going and not get overwhelmed or discouraged.

 

[Nienna]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, I'm a no-go on nuts. I used to eat them like crazy, while on keto, but once I eliminated them and reintroduced, they proved to upset my stomach, give me headaches, and generally make me feel crappy. There was a time that I could eat bags of cashews and macadamias in one sitting because I loved them, but now I don't have any kind of cravings for them.

I had to eliminate nuts also. I was getting pain in my left side and after testing, it was the nuts.

On another note, my son, almost 15, is working hard to maintain ketosis. He's had some starts and stops between paleo and keto in the last 2 years or so. Right now he says he's mid range per the urine sticks and keeping the carbs under 20. I read you shouldn't limit protein for a child so he hasn't. I think his total carbs are probably higher due to that. His normal day is 2 eggs fried in lard for breakfast with sometimes bacon or sausage. He takes ham rolled with butter for lunch with a few pickles and a meat stick from the farm. Or he takes leftovers from dinner. Dinner is primarily meat which he adds butter too. We usually make a side of non starchy vegetable like green beans, onions, or mushrooms. He doesn't much care for the fat bomb, but he does like the pork rind bread. He's pretty active with sports and very tall for his age, about 6'1" now. He seems to be doing well so far and has only had a bit of leg cramps, but I gave him Mg supplements and I have the oil.

Considering his age and growth, I worry I'm missing something like additional supplements. He doesn't seem hungry and his energy is good, but I wanted to check here. I've tried to keep this easy for him and not have him count grams of protein or fat. I want him to keep going and not get overwhelmed or discouraged.

That is amazing that your 15 year old son is doing this. He will benefit from this in his later years to a great degree. Kudos to him! He is doing really good.

If you are not doing it already, I would make sure that he gets plenty of salt (like Real Salt, Celtic Salt, or Himalayan Salt) and make sure he is taking potassium. If he gets legs cramps, have him drink some salt in water, like maybe a half of a teaspoon. I, and others, have found that taking salt almost immediately eliminates the cramps.

If he eats enough salt on his food, there should be no problem, but you really have to increase the salt.

 

[Chrissy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

That is amazing that your 15 year old son is doing this. He will benefit from this in his later years to a great degree. Kudos to him! He is doing really good.

If you are not doing it already, I would make sure that he gets plenty of salt (like Real Salt, Celtic Salt, or Himalayan Salt) and make sure he is taking potassium. If he gets legs cramps, have him drink some salt in water, like maybe a half of a teaspoon. I, and others, have found that taking salt almost immediately eliminates the cramps.

If he eats enough salt on his food, there should be no problem, but you really have to increase the salt.

Thanks Nienna, I just left him a note with your advice and the bottle of potassium. He salts all his food, but maybe it's not enough.

 

[Eboard10]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

That is amazing that your 15 year old son is doing this. He will benefit from this in his later years to a great degree. Kudos to him! He is doing really good.

If you are not doing it already, I would make sure that he gets plenty of salt (like Real Salt, Celtic Salt, or Himalayan Salt) and make sure he is taking potassium. If he gets legs cramps, have him drink some salt in water, like maybe a half of a teaspoon. I, and others, have found that taking salt almost immediately eliminates the cramps.

If he eats enough salt on his food, there should be no problem, but you really have to increase the salt.

I can attest to that too. I was having almost daily cramps initially but as soon as I increased my salt intake, the cramps disappeared.

Thanks Nienna, I just left him a note with your advice and the bottle of potassium. He salts all his food, but maybe it's not enough.

It's great to hear about people following the diet in their early teens. I can only imagine the benefits that the Ketogenic diet will bring him in the long run.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, it's great to hear a 15 year old sticking to such a health diet. I wish I'd started that early. :)

Just a reminder, bone broth is your friend. If not already doing it, you might want to add that to his daily intake, if you can.

 

[Thaigrr]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

That is amazing that your 15 year old son is doing this. He will benefit from this in his later years to a great degree. Kudos to him! He is doing really good.

If you are not doing it already, I would make sure that he gets plenty of salt (like Real Salt, Celtic Salt, or Himalayan Salt) and make sure he is taking potassium. If he gets legs cramps, have him drink some salt in water, like maybe a half of a teaspoon. I, and others, have found that taking salt almost immediately eliminates the cramps.

If he eats enough salt on his food, there should be no problem, but you really have to increase the salt.

Thanks Nienna, I just left him a note with your advice and the bottle of potassium. He salts all his food, but maybe it's not enough.

Hey Chrissy!

Kudos to you and your endeavors with your son! Muscle cramps are an issue with myself as well, especially after beginning the transition to the ketogenic diet.

My love affair with salt has been around for a long time, so probably no issues there. Potassium was suggested to me for cramping issues so that's on my "get" list. Look forward to our mutual success with this!

 

[Nancy2feathers]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi Chrissy. That is great news that your son is doing the keto diet! I too found by adding salt helped in stopping leg cramps(the leg cramps were brutal for a while during the night). Also, before I go to bed I take potassium and magnesium. I've also learned I can't manage without bone broth (with lots of real salt). It seems my body Really needs the nutrients from bone broth being on the keto diet. My thoughts are with you and your family.

 

[Chrissy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, it's great to hear a 15 year old sticking to such a health diet. I wish I'd started that early. :)

Just a reminder, bone broth is your friend. If not already doing it, you might want to add that to his daily intake, if you can.

He took the potassium yesterday and did the salted water this morning. Bone broth has been on my mind and I will get the crock pot going this morning. Thank you for the reminder ST and everyone's advice and encouragement.

This whole process has had it's ups and downs and I think I should elaborate on the background, because I've certainly made mistakes. My experience regarding changing my children's diet and the programming centered around food not only socially, but also expectations of taste and comfort has been a battle. It reminds me of Lewis Carroll's poem Jabberwocky.

Since I was the one researching, I ended up becoming the "food police." Reading When the Body Says No scared me, because I felt like my high expectations for them would lead to problems later in life. Around this same time, we were out to dinner one night celebrating my husbands birthday. We were talking about food and this same son said "I don't have a problem with gluten at all, it's because mom won't let me eat it." Well, his dinner that night was steak and broccoli. It was an ethnic restaurant and there was confusion about gluten free. The broccoli actually had gluten in it, but it was to late and he already ate it. About an hour later, he was literally running to the bathroom. What I took away from that was they need to learn on their own and I didn't realize how much they resented me.(and eating out is so not worth it) So I let go quite a bit this past summer and some gluten free items came into the house. That was hard for me. Interestingly, the want or need for that junk slowly dwindled and their choices became better and better. I don't think it was from my own example I was setting. I think they just matured and started to grasp the information and made the connection between diet and health. My older boy is actually reading the Vegetarian Myth right now and writing a school paper on it and sure enough, some vegetarian students have already confronted him.

So, it is great that my younger son is keto right now, but as you can see from the above, I probably didn't handle all of this in the best way I could have. We certainly haven't slain the beast, but we're working on it.

 

[Eboard10]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

He took the potassium yesterday and did the salted water this morning. Bone broth has been on my mind and I will get the crock pot going this morning. Thank you for the reminder ST and everyone's advice and encouragement.

This whole process has had it's ups and downs and I think I should elaborate on the background, because I've certainly made mistakes. My experience regarding changing my children's diet and the programming centered around food not only socially, but also expectations of taste and comfort has been a battle. It reminds me of Lewis Carroll's poem Jabberwocky.

Since I was the one researching, I ended up becoming the "food police." Reading When the Body Says No scared me, because I felt like my high expectations for them would lead to problems later in life. Around this same time, we were out to dinner one night celebrating my husbands birthday. We were talking about food and this same son said "I don't have a problem with gluten at all, it's because mom won't let me eat it." Well, his dinner that night was steak and broccoli. It was an ethnic restaurant and there was confusion about gluten free. The broccoli actually had gluten in it, but it was to late and he already ate it. About an hour later, he was literally running to the bathroom. What I took away from that was they need to learn on their own and I didn't realize how much they resented me.(and eating out is so not worth it) So I let go quite a bit this past summer and some gluten free items came into the house. That was hard for me. Interestingly, the want or need for that junk slowly dwindled and their choices became better and better. I don't think it was from my own example I was setting. I think they just matured and started to grasp the information and made the connection between diet and health. My older boy is actually reading the Vegetarian Myth right now and writing a school paper on it and sure enough, some vegetarian students have already confronted him.

So, it is great that my younger son is keto right now, but as you can see from the above, I probably didn't handle all of this in the best way I could have. We certainly haven't slain the beast, but we're working on it.

Chrissy, don't put yourself down. What you have done so far should be applauded.

Reading about a 15 year old being conscious about what he eats and taking the initiative of reading and writing on the subject at school brings a smile to my face. It's great to hear that your son is already able to relate the food he eats to his gut feelings. At his age, I had little interest in researching about any topic at all and would have laughed at anyone telling me that gluten was bad. At the time, I was eating pasta almost daily and had lots of stomach issues as well as migraines but wasn't smart enough to put two and two together.