Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Yas]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

will01, you might find that the xylitol acts in a similar way to vitamin C, inasmuch as it draws fluids into the intestine, hence the loose stool. Looks as if you took the appropriate action, which is to reduce the amount. I wouldn't think that you have had a detox reaction.

Actually, it could be a detox reaction. Xylitol has an anti-microbial effect and can kill off pathogenic bacteria in the digestive tract. If there is an overgrowth of the bad guys one may notice they can't tolerate xylitol due to the die-off reaction (diarrhea, cramping, gas, etc.). The key is to rebalance the intestinal flora with probiotics, fermented foods (sauerkraut), reintroducing small amounts of xylitol at a later date. Given that will01 has mentioned Crohn's/IBD, I'd say there's a good chance of pathogenic bacterial overgrowth that may need to be dealt with.

I was going to say that probiotics may be useful, probably start with something made in an lab and after a while you can leave that and add sauerkraut to your diet, because right now the fiber in it could promote the inflammation of the intestines, well... some people don't tolerate it, but if you find it's good for you, it certainly is something that helps the balance of the gut flora.

There is a specific strain of probiotic that is generally used against diarrhea, it is called saccharomyces boulardii, and it is normally used against different strains of clostridium bacteria [which normally causes diarrhea, among other bad things] and candida too. You can probably check that one, but I suppose it would be good to take a probiotic with many different strains for a while, in order to rebalance the intestinal flora. Some people also find that taking extra potassium helps with diarrhea.

About xylitol, it has laxative properties too, so I would say it is better to avoid it if you are dealing with diarrhea. And some people are sensitive to Stevia as SeekinTruth said, for me, it isn't gastroinstestinal, but it kicks inflammation and I get Hidradenitis Suppurativa flare ups.

Just fwiw, and I hope you can rebalance your health soon! :)

 

[will01]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for all the feedback everyone, much appreciated. It's very late as I type this and I'll post a proper reply as soon as I can :).

 

[will01]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

If you have digestive tract problems, will01, it's best to be really careful with fiber in whatever form. As far as xylitol, many others on the forum have had similar problems, including gas. Others have had problems with stevia, but it wasn't gastrointestinal, if I remember correctly. I don't have problems with either, but I've never tried have lots of xylitol in one day (like 4 or 5 teaspoons in a single day) because it's high in carbs.

will01, you might find that the xylitol acts in a similar way to vitamin C, inasmuch as it draws fluids into the intestine, hence the loose stool. Looks as if you took the appropriate action, which is to reduce the amount. I wouldn't think that you have had a detox reaction.

Actually, it could be a detox reaction. Xylitol has an anti-microbial effect and can kill off pathogenic bacteria in the digestive tract. If there is an overgrowth of the bad guys one may notice they can't tolerate xylitol due to the die-off reaction (diarrhea, cramping, gas, etc.). The key is to rebalance the intestinal flora with probiotics, fermented foods (sauerkraut), reintroducing small amounts of xylitol at a later date. Given that will01 has mentioned Crohn's/IBD, I'd say there's a good chance of pathogenic bacterial overgrowth that may need to be dealt with.

will01, you might find that the xylitol acts in a similar way to vitamin C, inasmuch as it draws fluids into the intestine, hence the loose stool. Looks as if you took the appropriate action, which is to reduce the amount. I wouldn't think that you have had a detox reaction.

Actually, it could be a detox reaction. Xylitol has an anti-microbial effect and can kill off pathogenic bacteria in the digestive tract. If there is an overgrowth of the bad guys one may notice they can't tolerate xylitol due to the die-off reaction (diarrhea, cramping, gas, etc.). The key is to rebalance the intestinal flora with probiotics, fermented foods (sauerkraut), reintroducing small amounts of xylitol at a later date. Given that will01 has mentioned Crohn's/IBD, I'd say there's a good chance of pathogenic bacterial overgrowth that may need to be dealt with.

I was going to say that probiotics may be useful, probably start with something made in an lab and after a while you can leave that and add sauerkraut to your diet, because right now the fiber in it could promote the inflammation of the intestines, well... some people don't tolerate it, but if you find it's good for you, it certainly is something that helps the balance of the gut flora.

There is a specific strain of probiotic that is generally used against diarrhea, it is called saccharomyces boulardii, and it is normally used against different strains of clostridium bacteria [which normally causes diarrhea, among other bad things] and candida too. You can probably check that one, but I suppose it would be good to take a probiotic with many different strains for a while, in order to rebalance the intestinal flora. Some people also find that taking extra potassium helps with diarrhea.

About xylitol, it has laxative properties too, so I would say it is better to avoid it if you are dealing with diarrhea. And some people are sensitive to Stevia as SeekinTruth said, for me, it isn't gastroinstestinal, but it kicks inflammation and I get Hidradenitis Suppurativa flare ups.

Just fwiw, and I hope you can rebalance your health soon! :)

Yeah, this last episode with fibre really was a friendly warning and I will be a lot more wary of the amounts I consume from now on. When I reintroduced nuts after a few months off them, it took a few days to get used to digesting the fibre again. It wasn't painful, but you could feel them as they traversed the digestive tract. Just had some almond pancakes today and they were quite bland and chalky. Pork rind pancakes are a good substitute, with no fibre, but they are a bit high in protein. Protein if consumed at say 50g or more per meal instead of 25 - 30g, has a worse effect on me than excess carbs, with brain fog and lethargy the result. My body seems to be very carb tolerant, but I would still like to keep them at a low level. With nuts it is around 30g net carbs per day, but without it should be 15g or less, which is better.

With xylitol now identified as a problem in excessive amounts, I feel confident I could go back to a meat/fat, bone broth, fat bomb and now pork rind diet and not suffer the same problems again. Even though nuts are a good source of electrolytes, supplementing potassium and magnesium, along with a good amount of salt, should keep things balanced. Using xylitol at my current amount of 2 teaspoons a day is tolerable and if indeed it is having an anti-microbial effect, I would like to continue with it (and also because I have a 20 kg bag of the stuff and don't want it to go to waste!). If it does cause trouble again though, I won't hesitate to discontinue it. It just caught me by surprise as the culprit, as I had used it at the same dose for so long. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to experiment with the higher dose again at some stage, as intake could be immediately ceased if/when problems occur. Like most on the diet, I have determined my tolerance level for various foods, so maybe 2 teaspoons is my limit for xylitol.

Did a course of probiotics when I got out of hospital last year, due to the amount of iv antibiotics they gave me. Can't say if they made a difference or not, but as it is recommended that's what I did. Have also tried sauerkraut previously and tolerated it well, so perhaps it is worth trying again, as Yas said, after a course of lab made probiotics.

One other thing I should mention doing is taking a "course" of colloidal silver for the last 6 weeks (after the GI problems), 15 - 20ml morning and night (12ppm), stopping 2 days ago. Searching the web revealed that a few IBD sufferers benefited from it's use, with one individual claiming it cured his crohns. Just thought it was worth experimenting with, especially before things get "interesting" on the BBM. Hard to say if it had an influence, but I feel good in general with great energy. So will continue "as is" for a while minus the CS, changing only one factor at a time being the goal.

Just one question regarding electrolytes. Before having this diarrhea problem, I didn't realize that calcium was an electrolyte (learn something every day). Considering most people's calcium intake is excessive on a standard diet and usually deficient in magnesium, just how much calcium do we need on the keto diet? Bone broth would have been my main source previously, with just a little from meat. The addition of almonds however, would increase the amount substantially in comparison.

 

[Chrissy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

will01, have you considered your issues might be related to Diverticulitis. Fever, pain in left abdomen, and diarrhea are symptoms for this. The nuts could have triggered a flare up. I found the book Fiber Menace very helpful if you haven't read it yet. My digestive issues are similar to yours and right now I'm cutting out as much insoluble fiber as I can.

 

[will01]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

will01, have you considered your issues might be related to Diverticulitis. Fever, pain in left abdomen, and diarrhea are symptoms for this. The nuts could have triggered a flare up. I found the book Fiber Menace very helpful if you haven't read it yet. My digestive issues are similar to yours and right now I'm cutting out as much insoluble fiber as I can.

It certainly is a possibility Chrissy. The scans I had suggested crohns/IBD and a colonoscopy revealed nothing abnormal, but I was never actually given a diagnosis. They didn't schedule or perform an endoscopy/enteroscopy to check the small intestine, which was strange as this was the area where the scans showed abnormalities. I have done loads of reading on IBD and diet definitely seems to be the key. Haven't read Fibre Menace yet (will read it, so many books to read) but have read much on the forum in various threads and agree it is not a necessary part of our diet. Things were going very well for me on a low fibre diet and had I not had loose stool issues and subsequent electrolyte losses, would likely never have reintroduced nuts. Think you're right about insoluble fibre, time to ditch the nuts and keep fibre minimal. May need to supplement electrolytes but this is easily done. Pain is an excellent teacher and it just presented me a very good lesson. Just need to be more vigilant with diet and maintain balance as far as possible.

 

[hlat]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

so many books to read

When The Body Says No by Gabor Mate might be helpful for you too.

 

[will01]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

so many books to read

When The Body Says No by Gabor Mate might be helpful for you too.

Funnily enough, I have had a tab open for a while with that very book, as I was thinking of purchasing. Came across it in a thread a few days ago and it was highly recommended. So, will definitely grab a copy. Thanks hlat :).

On the subject of diet books, I was pleasantly surprised when, after a brief discussion the other day, a family member asked to borrow my copies of LWB and PBPM . My other books are on kindle, so it would be good to have a few more books in hard copy to share. At the start, I pushed a bit hard with diet info and it backfired as a result. Now, I just put articles/info out there on all subjects and let people take it or leave it. So far, I have a cousin on Paleo and now this .

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

In addition to bone broth, if you have problems with electrolyte loss, it might be worth looking into getting liquid ionic mineral supplements.

 

[SummerLite]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hello to all!

I'm a real beginner here. Thought I'd discuss where I'm at at this point. Gluten and grain free has been ongoing for a month. Sugar has been cut out but had a few slip ups recently :(. Breakfast has been a real positive change with 2 eggs, butter, 3 pieces of bacon, upping the fat and has kept me going with good energy to around 2:30 pm. also with ox bile and HCL(contains Mag. stearate so needs replaced) but am at a lose for lunch and dinner. So what I can eat is fuzzy still. I had a episode a few days ago where I forgot to take the digestive supplements in the morning and my energy crashed mid morning and I was very tired for the rest of the day. During the evening I took my Omega 3's along with other supplements with dinner and proceeded to run to the bathroom with omega's/fat (?) being expelled. My approach has changed now. I suspect that upping the fat all of a sudden is to much for my system and liver. I'm considering that doing a cleansing diet for awhile along with liver support/cleansing may be best to start with. I spent some time last night looking for a cleansing diet here that adapts to keto(hopefully) and also on the web in general without any definite results so if anyone can suggest something I'd appreciate it. At this point I don't think I can rush into keto fully without some cleansing and support for GI tract, liver, kidneys, stomach, for assimilation etc. I need to tune in to my body more in what is my particular nature in doing this since a sudden change isn't appreciated it seems. I'm reading Keto-Adapted and Primal Body, Primal mind right now which are excellent but I'm missing a part of the initial puzzle piece for me. This thread is most instructive but I'm only on page 6!

To bad I don't have a bunch of money to jump into many things advised here. I have 5 amalgam filling needing removal(reading that thread). I used to have many more but they've been replaced. I have 5 crowns that may have amalgam under them(its likely) and there is NO way I can afford to replace those. I started this mercury mouth as a child and this may explain in part why my energy level has been low my entire life (with being a sugar burner as well).

I'd like to get a pressure cooker for the bone broth in particular. I actually bought some nice beef bones then read I need to get up in the middle of the night to add water to the pot and the smell is bad. Maybe I'll just give it a try anyway. Also the infrared sauna blanket would be nice. I have a BioMat that isn't full body but is infrared and I have used it for sweats in the past so maybe okay for awhile. I've also been working on my sleep. Have an almost totally dark cave to sleep in now and my sleep has improved greatly!

Once again I am all over the place with all the info I'm assimilating. Cleansing and support are the first step for me so if anyone has ideas I'd appreciate it. I have been taking ALA and NAC.

Thanks
p.s. I also bought a Milk Thistle tincture from our local herbalist yesterday so that's a start. I've been having a slight ache in my liver area for a few days. I'm working on drinking more water which is also needed.

 

[SummerLite]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Forgot to add, I'm also taking Magnesium citrate at bedtime most nights. I see only a few edits are allowed here so needed this extra space. :)

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

SummerLite, the thing about transitioning to the Ketogenic diet and digestion is that just increasing the (healthy) fat you eat also increases the ability to digest large amounts of fat over some time. But, yes, milk thistle will help get the liver function up too. As you eat more healthy (mostly animal) fat, your liver will also produce more bile (and it will be less viscous) which is also healthy in more ways than just digestion.

I'd say continue to experiment and go slow, and continue to read the books and this thread. There's so much that could come up during transition and adaptation that's already been covered, and if you have a very specific question, then it will be easier to give more specific answers. Hope this helps a little. Others may also give more generalized tips. Good luck.

 

[SummerLite]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi SeekinTruth, Your reply is very appropriate. Since writing the last post I have come to the same conclusion as you say. Yesterday was another learning experience in that I see this is going to take time for my body to adjust. I probably don't need a particular cleanse at the moment as I am already cleaning up my diet. I see the fat level must be increased more slowly and take into account how active I will be during the day. For instance my usual high fat breakfast didn't work well yesterday since I was off work (where the energy is needed) and just spent the day with little physical activity around the house. I felt rather bla the entire day(better at night) and slogged along

Thanks! Continue on, I shall. :D

 

[herondancer]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi SeekinTruth, Your reply is very appropriate. Since writing the last post I have come to the same conclusion as you say. Yesterday was another learning experience in that I see this is going to take time for my body to adjust. I probably don't need a particular cleanse at the moment as I am already cleaning up my diet. I see the fat level must be increased more slowly and take into account how active I will be during the day. For instance my usual high fat breakfast didn't work well yesterday since I was off work (where the energy is needed) and just spent the day with little physical activity around the house. I felt rather bla the entire day(better at night) and slogged along

Thanks! Continue on, I shall. :D

You may find up and down periods of blah and low energy as your body re-tools your metabolism. Nora Gedgaudas compared it to taking a sewing machine factory and re-purposing it to make Ipads. It's not going to happen overnight ;) Just pay attention to how you feel each day and adjust your supplements like the ox bile and such. Don't get on yourself for feeling tired. It will pass. You'll be amazed at how much better you'll feel once the switch is made.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi SeekinTruth, Your reply is very appropriate. Since writing the last post I have come to the same conclusion as you say. Yesterday was another learning experience in that I see this is going to take time for my body to adjust. I probably don't need a particular cleanse at the moment as I am already cleaning up my diet. I see the fat level must be increased more slowly and take into account how active I will be during the day. For instance my usual high fat breakfast didn't work well yesterday since I was off work (where the energy is needed) and just spent the day with little physical activity around the house. I felt rather bla the entire day(better at night) and slogged along

Thanks! Continue on, I shall. :D

Hi SummerLite. It sounds like you're doing really well with the diet changes. Keep up the good work!

As for cleansing, you should keep in mind that the ketogenic diet IS a cleansing diet. Getting your body on the proper fuel, eating the right foods and leaving out all the bad stuff has a remarkable effect - generating new mitochondria, regenerating the gut lining and giving your body the opportunity to detoxify. It's better than any cleanse you can get from the health food store, for sure!

The metals in the mouth are a concern, but it sounds like you're already taking the right steps to support the liver with the milk thistle, NAC and ALA. You might want to try a chelator like cilantro, activated charcoal or bentonite clay to bind toxic stuff and help it out of the body. Lots of water should be done in conjunction with this.

Also, on the Health and Wellness show tomorrow (Monday) at 2pm EST on the SOTT Talk Radio Network we'll be doing part 2 of our ketogenic diet series. Tune in if you can! You can even call in with questions, if you have any, or just to share your experience. We love calls! Here's the link:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sottradionetwork

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Great tips herondancer and dugdeep. I agree. Keep going steadily with the changes, SummerLite. One day, when you are completely keto adapted, you'll wonder how you ever ate any other way. :)