Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Fluffy, it might also be an idea to get a full blood panel done, including a thyroid panel, iron etc (& any others your doctor recommends) for the tiredness and exhaustion. Having a wee one that’s still waking up through the night is exhausting. And I agree, perhaps your body just needs some carbs and protein while being an active mum on the go.

Regarding the back pain, perhaps a good osteopath or chiropractor might help. I use Martin&Pleasance Comfrey and Arnica that helps with sprains and aches (available from most health food shops in Australia).
Hope you get some relief soon!
 
Help please.

I’m at a total loss of what to do, here’s the situation.

For years doing intermittent fasting, multiple day fasting weekly, eating mainly low carb/keto with a carb cycling here and there., this helped me stay feeling okay and keep inflammation low. Then pregnancy wouldn’t allow no carb in the first half, got back on low carb towards the end. Baby was born, May be the worst sleeper baby in the world, I used carbs just for the energy because I had none, I couldn’t function for the first 6 months without them.. she’s now 1, still wakes up at night and I’m pretty well exhausted 24/7, body is very miserable about the lack of sleep. I have tried returning to low carb with no success as I would feel depressed and incapacitated after a few days, but my physical symptoms have been mounting up, feeling very toxic and started overreacting to carbs blood sugar spiking and getting jittery, night sweats, candida overgrowth and just feeling really rundown.

So I decided to give keto another try, reducing carbs over a few weeks. Today is day 11 of no carbs, my energy has stabilised, my sleep is more sound (when I get some) my mood is more stable and I’ve gotten through the worst of the initial symptoms… except the dull pain i always have in my back and hip (one of the big reason I wanted to get in keto) has flared up causing excruciating pain which requires rubbing and stretching all day long and pain relief to go to bed.

I’m taking salt, potassium and magnesium, quite a lot of all three, I have 3 small meat meals a day with extra fat and a small amount of prebiotic veg.
Today the pain was so bad I had to take some painkillers in the morning and they barely worked. By 3 pm I was miserable so I ate some rice to see if carbs would help and within an hour the pain settled down to where I only just feel it.

I’m extremely bummed out, everything else is going pretty good except for the hip/back pain, I feel derailed and disheartened. I don’t know what to do, I can persist with managing pain and see if it gets better?

All tips and suggestions welcome. I really want to do keto, I just feel better without carbs in every way- except for the body pain.

I’m an old hand at keto, been doing it on and off for years and this has never happened, usually any aches and pains are gone within a few days.

Thanks in advance for replies.

Where is the pain in your back? Recently I had a herniated disc - it sent me down a rabbit hole of looking at my hidden core beliefs. Physical back issues are generally also spinal cord issues, and the spinal cord is like our main ethernet cable that gathers the signals that our body proteins are picking up from the universe. So getting the back in good shape physically can help that quite a bit. If you can go at it from both the physical and emotional angles, you may see some improvement. From Louise Hay, the back represents the feeling of support. Symptoms may indicate an area of our core beliefs that could use some work:
Back: Represents the support of life. I know that Life always supports me.

Back Problems:

— Lower: Fear of money. Lack of financial support.
Affirmation: I trust the process of life. All I need is always taken care of. I am safe.

Middle: Guilt. Stuck in all that stuff back there. “Get off my back.”
Affirmation: I release the past. I am free to move forward with love in my heart.

— Upper: Lack of emotional support. Feeling unloved. Holding back love.
Affirmation: I love and approve of myself. Life supports and loves me.

And when the back is out, the hips are usually out, too:
Hip(s): Carries the body in perfect balance. Major thrust in moving forward.
Affirmation: Hip Hip Hooray — there is joy in every day. I am balanced and free.

Hip Problems: Fear of going forward in major decisions. Nothing to move forward to.
Affirmation: I am in perfect balance. I move forward in life with ease and with joy at every age.

So making use of a daily affirmation practice may help. It sure helped me. I posted two good ones here.

About the physical angle, have you seen a physiotherapist or chiropractor? My chiro suggested hanging from monkey bars every day. I do this for 1 minute now. This will ease the tension of any subluxation going on. Sometimes I get some pretty amazing back cracks.

The other thing I'd recommend is the Rosenberg exercises. Often our C1 and C2 vertebrae - the ones just below the skull, are criss-crossed. This misalignment translates into the entire spine being in misalignment. It also effects our vagus nerve - causing us to feel run down, or even deeply depressed, AKA stuck in dorsal vagal state. These simple exercises can give our body and nervous system a reset.



The other thing that was a total game changer for my back was deep tissue massage. Highly, highly recommended. The back is misaligned, and the body knows this and so tightens the muscles to protect it, which just locks it all in place. Massage is good for loosening things up and allowing release.

Anyways, about diet - like others here, I was on a strict low carb diet for a while, but had some side effects like constipation and foam in the urine (due to excess protein). I eat more carbs now. I'm still not sure what to do about it. The C's said that keto is not for everyone, and quick transitions into it don't always work:

Session 4 April 2015

A: For many, the transition in diet is either not possible due to epigenetic factors, or must be undertaken very, very slowly. For some, the requirements for carbohydrates is higher. They need to fulfill this need as safely as possible. In this case, the individual has intuited the relationship and should do some experimental adjustments adding root type vegetables and some greens and berries.

Q:
(L) What you're saying, I think, is that for some people, transitioning to functioning on ketones is much more difficult for a variety of reasons?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So, the ketogenic diet is not ultimately desirable for everyone?

A: No

Q: (Galatea) But then that also leads to the question about how being on a ketogenic diet helps you evolve and raise your FRV, and make you super-smart and strong?

(Chu) The path to transformation and all that...

(L) Are you saying that the people who can't do the ketogenic diet that they...

(Galatea) They can't evolve, or they can do it another way?

A: It is helpful to evolving and FRV for those who require it. For some, it is required that they follow an adjacent plan. There is a great range of individual types. As you may have noticed, the ketogenic path is very difficult and a challenge even for the people it is right for. Some others have a bit more leeway and less struggle. And in answer to your next question, indeed there is something like karma involved.

Q:
(L) So are you suggesting that those of us who need the ketogenic diet have karma to pay off? That we're being tortured? [laughter] We were gluttons in past lives or something?

A:
Close enough! But aren't you glad that a path is available?

My own Q is if I should keep with low carb or current mid-level carb, or try out the high-carb diet discussed in the Ray Peat thread. Decisions, decisions...

1726664521375.png
 
Where is the pain in your back? Recently I had a herniated disc - it sent me down a rabbit hole of looking at my hidden core beliefs. Physical back issues are generally also spinal cord issues, and the spinal cord is like our main ethernet cable that gathers the signals that our body proteins are picking up from the universe. So getting the back in good shape physically can help that quite a bit. If you can go at it from both the physical and emotional angles, you may see some improvement. From Louise Hay, the back represents the feeling of support. Symptoms may indicate an area of our core beliefs that could use some work:


And when the back is out, the hips are usually out, too:


So making use of a daily affirmation practice may help. It sure helped me. I posted two good ones here.

About the physical angle, have you seen a physiotherapist or chiropractor? My chiro suggested hanging from monkey bars every day. I do this for 1 minute now. This will ease the tension of any subluxation going on. Sometimes I get some pretty amazing back cracks.

The other thing I'd recommend is the Rosenberg exercises. Often our C1 and C2 vertebrae - the ones just below the skull, are criss-crossed. This misalignment translates into the entire spine being in misalignment. It also effects our vagus nerve - causing us to feel run down, or even deeply depressed, AKA stuck in dorsal vagal state. These simple exercises can give our body and nervous system a reset.



The other thing that was a total game changer for my back was deep tissue massage. Highly, highly recommended. The back is misaligned, and the body knows this and so tightens the muscles to protect it, which just locks it all in place. Massage is good for loosening things up and allowing release.

Anyways, about diet - like others here, I was on a strict low carb diet for a while, but had some side effects like constipation and foam in the urine (due to excess protein). I eat more carbs now. I'm still not sure what to do about it. The C's said that keto is not for everyone, and quick transitions into it don't always work:

Session 4 April 2015



My own Q is if I should keep with low carb or current mid-level carb, or try out the high-carb diet discussed in the Ray Peat thread. Decisions, decisions...

View attachment 101507

Thank you for your detailed and bountiful reply, you always give such abundant information, I really appreciate you.

The pain is in my low back (feels like originating from higher up but with no pain there) over the left hip, through the glute and piriformis, pulling from my spine to the outer pelvis, then all the hip flexors, front, back, inner and outer thigh, down my ITB into my knee then through gastrocnemius, soleus, tibialis anterior, Achilles and finally my whole foot.

I can relate to the idea that Louise Hay suggests the back representing life supporting us. I haven’t been feeling that at all, I’ve been angry a lot about how difficult the daily grind of something always being wrong is. The last year in particular has been very difficult with an obscene amount of sleep deprivation and just feeling like what’s the point in living when it’s so relentlessly hard with not relief. Before then I feel like it’s just been a battle to stay afloat, sort one thing out and another even more challenging thing surfaces. It never ends.

I’ve been putting off seeing a chiro, I notice myself feeling like I’m not worth it, not worth the money, not worth someone else’s expertise and time, not trusting that there’ll be a good outcome, possibly that I deserve this pain and suffering as a karmic balancing for things I have not done right - especially because I’ve consciously chosen to not do or do some things knowing they were not for the highest good and then anticipating a karmic return. It was okay for me to silently suffer but now it’s affecting my ability to parent, be a good partner, good home maker, good friend and generally a good person. I have to fix it.
A deep tissue massage, multiple for different areas, is also something I need, certainly and the same reasons I haven’t seen a chiropractor apply here too, I have tiny little knots all over my body, some places worse than others, I can massage out the ones I can reach easily, but my gosh it’s so painful, I’m left with bruising just from moderate pressure, whole lower leg is currently covered in them.

The whole diet thing is so tricky, it’s been the bane of my existence for 12 years. I ended up with eating disorders of all kinds, sibo, ibs, malnutrition, trying to figure it out so I gave up completely for a few years and let myself eat whatever I wanted. This restored my mental health and relationship with food but it has had other consequences, worst of all, exacerbating leaky gut symptoms.

I want to be off the carbs, I’ve successfully done keto with great results in the past, I’m confident to persist with it for some time before I make any decisions otherwise. After eating the rice last night I had less pain for a few hours but then it returned. So carbs were only interim relief. I tried ray peat’s diet approach, it’s way too many carbs for me, I feel their affect after about 60g and then affects my sleep, but it was great for mood, energy and digestion.,. also have that comment from the C’s about keto not being for everyone in the back of my mind all the time, wondering if may be my age (nearly 45) and lifestyle no longer fit with keto. I’m on the look out constantly to see if that’s true for me.

Again I appreciate your reply, lots to think about re how I’m seeing life, what I’m holding into, my beliefs about myself (and others, serious trust issues) yet what I can do for now is make some appointments and get some help. Your reply has given me some self worth so I’ll make the phone calls as soon as I have a minute before the feeling fades.
 
Hi @Fluffy, sorry to hear about your pains.

One thing that comes to mind is to try salt baths (a good handful). The temperature of the water should be pleasant, not to overheat you. If you have no bathtub, then footbaths up to the calves for 20-30min are an option. The salt nourishes through its trace minerals and cleanses energies.

Also you could try foothbaths with magnesium chloride flakes. In addition you can use the mg chloride flakes to make mg oil (30% flakes mixed with water 70%) to spray on all your body and more often on painful areas.
Sometimes both substances, as applied through the skin, may give quick relief.
In any case, all the best to you.
 
Hi @Fluffy, sorry to hear about your pains.

One thing that comes to mind is to try salt baths (a good handful). The temperature of the water should be pleasant, not to overheat you. If you have no bathtub, then footbaths up to the calves for 20-30min are an option. The salt nourishes through its trace minerals and cleanses energies.

Also you could try foothbaths with magnesium chloride flakes. In addition you can use the mg chloride flakes to make mg oil (30% flakes mixed with water 70%) to spray on all your body and more often on painful areas.
Sometimes both substances, as applied through the skin, may give quick relief.
In any case, all the best to you.

Yes yes yes, thank you Breo. I have most certainly not been giving myself enough self care with all my family responsibilities and everyone needing a piece of me all the time. Baths have always been a go to of mine for relief, I’ve only had one in the past year due to lack of self love and not putting my needs above others sometimes.

Tonight, I’m going to do exactly what you suggest.
 
Thank you for your detailed and bountiful reply, you always give such abundant information, I really appreciate you.

The pain is in my low back (feels like originating from higher up but with no pain there) over the left hip, through the glute and piriformis, pulling from my spine to the outer pelvis, then all the hip flexors, front, back, inner and outer thigh, down my ITB into my knee then through gastrocnemius, soleus, tibialis anterior, Achilles and finally my whole foot.

I can relate to the idea that Louise Hay suggests the back representing life supporting us. I haven’t been feeling that at all, I’ve been angry a lot about how difficult the daily grind of something always being wrong is. The last year in particular has been very difficult with an obscene amount of sleep deprivation and just feeling like what’s the point in living when it’s so relentlessly hard with not relief. Before then I feel like it’s just been a battle to stay afloat, sort one thing out and another even more challenging thing surfaces. It never ends.

I’ve been putting off seeing a chiro, I notice myself feeling like I’m not worth it, not worth the money, not worth someone else’s expertise and time, not trusting that there’ll be a good outcome, possibly that I deserve this pain and suffering as a karmic balancing for things I have not done right - especially because I’ve consciously chosen to not do or do some things knowing they were not for the highest good and then anticipating a karmic return. It was okay for me to silently suffer but now it’s affecting my ability to parent, be a good partner, good home maker, good friend and generally a good person. I have to fix it.
A deep tissue massage, multiple for different areas, is also something I need, certainly and the same reasons I haven’t seen a chiropractor apply here too, I have tiny little knots all over my body, some places worse than others, I can massage out the ones I can reach easily, but my gosh it’s so painful, I’m left with bruising just from moderate pressure, whole lower leg is currently covered in them.

The whole diet thing is so tricky, it’s been the bane of my existence for 12 years. I ended up with eating disorders of all kinds, sibo, ibs, malnutrition, trying to figure it out so I gave up completely for a few years and let myself eat whatever I wanted. This restored my mental health and relationship with food but it has had other consequences, worst of all, exacerbating leaky gut symptoms.

I want to be off the carbs, I’ve successfully done keto with great results in the past, I’m confident to persist with it for some time before I make any decisions otherwise. After eating the rice last night I had less pain for a few hours but then it returned. So carbs were only interim relief. I tried ray peat’s diet approach, it’s way too many carbs for me, I feel their affect after about 60g and then affects my sleep, but it was great for mood, energy and digestion.,. also have that comment from the C’s about keto not being for everyone in the back of my mind all the time, wondering if may be my age (nearly 45) and lifestyle no longer fit with keto. I’m on the look out constantly to see if that’s true for me.

Again I appreciate your reply, lots to think about re how I’m seeing life, what I’m holding into, my beliefs about myself (and others, serious trust issues) yet what I can do for now is make some appointments and get some help. Your reply has given me some self worth so I’ll make the phone calls as soon as I have a minute before the feeling fades.

The link I provided you is about something called Piriformis Syndrome.

It happens to some women after pregnancy and it is difficult for a doctor to diagnose it because first in their wisdom they dictate all kinds of things that of course are useless.

There are people who have surgery as a last resort, but in the end they end up worse off.

In principle, the best thing is patience and time, so that the area recovers.

I'm not saying that's your case, but now you have this information.

The information about turmeric and black pepper that I sent you before helps mitigate pain and inflammation.

Cheer up.
 
@Fluffy I don't think it is such a bad thing to be eating a bit of rice if that is what helps the pain. A lot of us feel better with a bit of carbs in our diets. As long as you are not eating a lot of carbs, some rice is not going to be a big deal. Going completely keto may not be what is good for your body.

Exactly my thoughts … I would experiment around a bit with varying amounts and types of carbs and see what works best for you at this present time. It will change again in the future, as everything does, so re-experimenting and adjusting what you do is the way to go.

I was hardcore keto for a few years and it worked a treat! Suddenly I got more tired, put on weight and felt cold all day. So I doubled my efforts and it got worse. I then reintroduced a significant amount of carbs and all my symptoms went away, only weight kept going up. So I started to pull back on the carbs slowly until I found the sweet spot, and again, this is likely to change again, maybe due to seasons, or stressors in life of whatnot. Maybe you should also exeriment with the intermittent fasting, as this might not work for you at this present time. I got off of it for a while and things got back into alignment, so now I have reintroduced intermittent fasting again.

But one other thing is clearer for me is now - I used to be quite set in my dietary habits and views, and when things changed, I was not well equipped to adapt. Maybe our beliefs and views of the world play a larger role in all that than we think. I have noticed that for instance reflux for me has no defined trigger - it seems more to be a combination of things like mental stress, food types, lack of exercise - literally a feeling of “wanting to vomit at the world”.

I have take up exercising again after a lengthy hiatus, and it has been very beneficial, mostly on a mental, but also on a physical level. I also always combine my exercise (I mainly row for 20 min on a Concept 2) with a FIR-sauna for 35 minutes. So maybe you could look into that as well - both are anti-inflammatory.

My best wishes for your journey, Fluffy!
 

The link I provided you is about something called Piriformis Syndrome.

It happens to some women after pregnancy and it is difficult for a doctor to diagnose it because first in their wisdom they dictate all kinds of things that of course are useless.

There are people who have surgery as a last resort, but in the end they end up worse off.

In principle, the best thing is patience and time, so that the area recovers.

I'm not saying that's your case, but now you have this information.

The information about turmeric and black pepper that I sent you before helps mitigate pain and inflammation.

Cheer up.

Oh yeah, it’s very uncomfortable. I’ve had recurring issues with it for a very long time, way before this recent pregnancy, it might have started after my son was born, he’s nearly 22.
Find the spot where I can feel little nodules in the ligament and jam in finger tips pressing as hard as I can (this hurts like hell) until the pain goes away and viola.

It’s keeps coming back though. So I’m assuming it’s an imbalance in the hips/back and potentially a weakness in other areas where the piriformis is over compensating.

I’ve made appointment with chiro and going to get back into the gym one all the pain is under control.

Black pepper and turmeric, interesting, I’ve never had much success trying these before. I find them irritating in the gut, geeze, one thing for someone is a no go for someone else. Health is so individual and very hard to figure out. What a maze !

Thanks for replying,
 
Fluffy, it might also be an idea to get a full blood panel done, including a thyroid panel, iron etc (& any others your doctor recommends) for the tiredness and exhaustion. Having a wee one that’s still waking up through the night is exhausting. And I agree, perhaps your body just needs some carbs and protein while being an active mum on the go.

Regarding the back pain, perhaps a good osteopath or chiropractor might help. I use Martin&Pleasance Comfrey and Arnica that helps with sprains and aches (available from most health food shops in Australia).
Hope you get some relief soon!

This is a good idea, I might be lacking in some essential things though I’m trying very diligently to eat a lot of the right foods for nutrition for us both. I probably overeat. I’m still breastfeeding quite a lot too, she’s going to be difficult to wean I can see.

My last pregnancy before this one really buggered my health, thyroid almost stopped working completely.

I’ll ordered some of the recommended pain relief, I’m really not happy about taking OTC pain medications daily.

Thank you for tips
 
@Fluffy I don't think it is such a bad thing to be eating a bit of rice if that is what helps the pain. A lot of us feel better with a bit of carbs in our diets. As long as you are not eating a lot of carbs, some rice is not going to be a big deal. Going completely keto may not be what is good for your body.
It’s really just an experiment for now, and it has more to do with my partner than me.

He’s having issues with digestion, his lower oesophageal valve is not opening and closing properly. I try to convince him to do some vagus nerve exercises, other relaxing techniques, take some initiative in leaning and experimenting himself rather than relying on doctors who can’t tell him why, just doing things like prescribing very strong antacids. He’s using me as his guru which I don’t really like because I don’t have the answers to his problems and I can’t feel what his body is feeling. Something we can try together (I’m trying to be supportive, he’s been mad at me for not being able to fix it like a magician) is the low inflammation inducing of keto. And on the other hand it’s good for me to be able to offer him all kinds of support even though he’s never tried to support me in these kinds of ways with all my health issues (quite the opposite, telling me I’m ruining his life because I’m sick all the time) so it’s humbling for my ego to help.
 
" quite the opposite, telling me I’m ruining his life because I’m sick all the time" , personally i've been outside of the dynamics of relationships , for quite some time , but this doesnt read as .. healthy ( as a random person on the interwebs take it for whatever ).
 
Exactly my thoughts … I would experiment around a bit with varying amounts and types of carbs and see what works best for you at this present time. It will change again in the future, as everything does, so re-experimenting and adjusting what you do is the way to go.

I was hardcore keto for a few years and it worked a treat! Suddenly I got more tired, put on weight and felt cold all day. So I doubled my efforts and it got worse. I then reintroduced a significant amount of carbs and all my symptoms went away, only weight kept going up. So I started to pull back on the carbs slowly until I found the sweet spot, and again, this is likely to change again, maybe due to seasons, or stressors in life of whatnot. Maybe you should also exeriment with the intermittent fasting, as this might not work for you at this present time. I got off of it for a while and things got back into alignment, so now I have reintroduced intermittent fasting again.

But one other thing is clearer for me is now - I used to be quite set in my dietary habits and views, and when things changed, I was not well equipped to adapt. Maybe our beliefs and views of the world play a larger role in all that than we think. I have noticed that for instance reflux for me has no defined trigger - it seems more to be a combination of things like mental stress, food types, lack of exercise - literally a feeling of “wanting to vomit at the world”.

I have take up exercising again after a lengthy hiatus, and it has been very beneficial, mostly on a mental, but also on a physical level. I also always combine my exercise (I mainly row for 20 min on a Concept 2) with a FIR-sauna for 35 minutes. So maybe you could look into that as well - both are anti-inflammatory.

My best wishes for your journey, Fluffy!


I struggled for years wanting to fit into a box of labels re eating habits, ie, gluten free, keto, carnivore, plant based… tried them all, I liked having a name I could call myself.

Really beneficial exercise is something I’m lacking definitely, finding time is hard, finding consistency in energy is harder. I tried some weights at night (think that resistance training is crucial for me) but it exited me too much and disrupted my sleep. Now that babe is older and likes people I’ve been offered some baby sitting from my mum which I plan to take her up on when the pain is less debilitating.

I have no plans to stay on keto strictly for the long term, I’m not even convinced if that is a good idea for anyone as a permanent thing, I see it as a healing diet and once healed we move back to eating more carbs and a bit less fat, and I even dislike calling it keto these days, the whole labelling thing just grinds me- especially the ketovore name that people have come up with.

Do you think carb cycling is a good idea? I am out with the jury on this one.
 
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