Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Skyfarmr]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Gelatin isn't going to help with joint problems until the inflammatory factors are removed from the diet completely. It would be like giving vitamins to someone along with their arsenic.

Yes, our septic system is probably the most "fortified" one in the neighborhood.

Before I started this diet with bone broth my knees sounded like a bowl of rice crispies! I now feel like I have new knees,new back, and hands that are 10 years younger. But, if I so much eat a tomatoe slice my knees flare up almost right away if not the next morning. Also coming from a beer lover its NOT worth the pain in joints that it brings.
Once he regularly has bone broth and gets rid of things like beer, potatoes, pepers, and what not, he will have no need for painkillers. I was on the verge of having surgery to both knees, so it was very painful. Almost sounds unbelievable but it is true. My husband at first did not want bone broth either so I started calling mushroom soup with rib meat! He loves it and I dont have to force feed him(broth) anymore..... heee hhe :P
Hope this helps

Me too! My knees were that bad too! And my back, shoulders, wrists, fingers, hips... and so on. For me, it is so fantastic to be without any pain! It is a boring diet, yes, but the good thing about it is that it mostly satisfies the body so hunger and cravings just go away. That is a blessing!

Thank you for the encouraging comments. Deep down i knew that food elimination needed to come first or at least concurrently. Stopped harvesting my tomatoes or if I did, gave them away; roasted some and couldn't bring myself to use them and ended up tossing them out after they got moldy. Old habits :/ I guess my potato crop failure was a blessing, as well.
Will have to figure out creative ways to send broth and enough non-inflammatory foods along with him for the day.

Will encourage him to read some of these posts, as well; however, he tends to nod off soon after he sits down to do...whatever. *sigh*
Hopefully that issue will self correct with diet changes and elimination of the nasties, too.

 

[RflctnOfU]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Gelatin isn't going to help with joint problems until the inflammatory factors are removed from the diet completely. It would be like giving vitamins to someone along with their arsenic.

Yes, our septic system is probably the most "fortified" one in the neighborhood.

Before I started this diet with bone broth my knees sounded like a bowl of rice crispies! I now feel like I have new knees,new back, and hands that are 10 years younger. But, if I so much eat a tomatoe slice my knees flare up almost right away if not the next morning. Also coming from a beer lover its NOT worth the pain in joints that it brings.
Once he regularly has bone broth and gets rid of things like beer, potatoes, pepers, and what not, he will have no need for painkillers. I was on the verge of having surgery to both knees, so it was very painful. Almost sounds unbelievable but it is true. My husband at first did not want bone broth either so I started calling mushroom soup with rib meat! He loves it and I dont have to force feed him(broth) anymore..... heee hhe :P
Hope this helps

Me too! My knees were that bad too! And my back, shoulders, wrists, fingers, hips... and so on. For me, it is so fantastic to be without any pain! It is a boring diet, yes, but the good thing about it is that it mostly satisfies the body so hunger and cravings just go away. That is a blessing!

Thank you for the encouraging comments. Deep down i knew that food elimination needed to come first or at least concurrently. Stopped harvesting my tomatoes or if I did, gave them away; roasted some and couldn't bring myself to use them and ended up tossing them out after they got moldy. Old habits :/ I guess my potato crop failure was a blessing, as well.
Will have to figure out creative ways to send broth and enough non-inflammatory foods along with him for the day.

Will encourage him to read some of these posts, as well; however, he tends to nod off soon after he sits down to do...whatever. *sigh*
Hopefully that issue will self correct with diet changes and elimination of the nasties, too.

I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread about using a thermos for the broth...can pretend it's coffee :)

Kris

 

[Psalehesost]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It is a boring diet, yes, but the good thing about it is that it mostly satisfies the body so hunger and cravings just go away. That is a blessing!

Like Gertrudes, I must say I find it quite the opposite. Given how satisfying meat and fat is (the last few days I've been having wild boar with extra tallow - and lamb liver with tallow - all of it salted plenty), food from vegetable sources (which is the only other thing you could be thinking of) pales in comparison, doesn't even really seem like real food.

I'll now venture to make a guess: I think "ordinary" food and cooking - especially cooking - has become part of your identity. Otherwise, you would probably long ago have just let go - ceasing to think of food in terms of "boring" and "not boring" - simply embracing the new standard whole-heartedly not just in practice, but in mind and feeling as well.

 

[Ollie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It is a boring diet, yes, but the good thing about it is that it mostly satisfies the body so hunger and cravings just go away. That is a blessing!

Like Gertrudes, I must say I find it quite the opposite. Given how satisfying meat and fat is (the last few days I've been having wild boar with extra tallow - and lamb liver with tallow - all of it salted plenty), food from vegetable sources (which is the only other thing you could be thinking of) pales in comparison, doesn't even really seem like real food.

I'll now venture to make a guess: I think "ordinary" food and cooking - especially cooking - has become part of your identity. Otherwise, you would probably long ago have just let go - ceasing to think of food in terms of "boring" and "not boring" - simply embracing the new standard whole-heartedly not just in practice, but in mind and feeling as well.

I seem to recall that the idea was that we had moved from 'food', whether 'boring' or 'not boring' to the idea of ingesting 'fuel' for the system - satisfying the whole body as the main aim. I must confess that I do miss 'cooking, particularly baking', but continue to experiment with meat concoctions to see what variety I can come up with for the differing 'fuels'. :)

 

[Carl]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It is a boring diet, yes, but the good thing about it is that it mostly satisfies the body so hunger and cravings just go away. That is a blessing!

Like Gertrudes, I must say I find it quite the opposite. Given how satisfying meat and fat is (the last few days I've been having wild boar with extra tallow - and lamb liver with tallow - all of it salted plenty), food from vegetable sources (which is the only other thing you could be thinking of) pales in comparison, doesn't even really seem like real food.

I'll now venture to make a guess: I think "ordinary" food and cooking - especially cooking - has become part of your identity. Otherwise, you would probably long ago have just let go - ceasing to think of food in terms of "boring" and "not boring" - simply embracing the new standard whole-heartedly not just in practice, but in mind and feeling as well.

I seem to recall that the idea was that we had moved from 'food', whether 'boring' or 'not boring' to the idea of ingesting 'fuel' for the system - satisfying the whole body as the main aim. I must confess that I do miss 'cooking, particularly baking', but continue to experiment with meat concoctions to see what variety I can come up with for the differing 'fuels'. :)

My personal experience of it is as an expression of moving away from materialism. I've had strong cravings for baked goods, such as those made with almond/coconut meal. Every time I have satisfied those cravings in the past, it felt like I was just feeding what 'it' wanted, and would be in a different mental state afterwards, not motivated to read or network. The same is true for veg that 'it' enjoys, such as sweet potatoes.

After some meat and bone broth, I'm safe in the knowledge that I have satisfied my bodies requirements for work, but have not satisfied it's childish self-detrimental desires. It seems like a small thing but it turned out to be quite a stumbling block for me on the path to self work and gaining more control over this machine. I enjoy my food now, but not in the ravenous, predatory way that I used to. If it was possible to not eat anything and still live optimally, I'd choose that.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It is a boring diet, yes, but the good thing about it is that it mostly satisfies the body so hunger and cravings just go away. That is a blessing!

Like Gertrudes, I must say I find it quite the opposite. Given how satisfying meat and fat is (the last few days I've been having wild boar with extra tallow - and lamb liver with tallow - all of it salted plenty), food from vegetable sources (which is the only other thing you could be thinking of) pales in comparison, doesn't even really seem like real food.

I'll now venture to make a guess: I think "ordinary" food and cooking - especially cooking - has become part of your identity. Otherwise, you would probably long ago have just let go - ceasing to think of food in terms of "boring" and "not boring" - simply embracing the new standard whole-heartedly not just in practice, but in mind and feeling as well.

True. As a mother of five children who tended to assess her self-worth by whether or not there were leftovers at the end of the meal, cooking to make people I love happy is deeply engrained. But, I've mostly gotten over that though I do still think about doing some creative things in the kitchen with what IS well-tolerated by everyone. Like for breakfast, we have the standard bone broth that is on the stove ALL the time, then bacon, patty sausage and link sausage. So we have a platter with a nicely arranged selection of meats and another plate for eggs for those who can tolerate them. Sitting at the table and talking is the one time of the day when many of us are together. We sort out problems, talk about the weirdness on the planet, analyze stuff, share what each of us is working on, and so forth. So it is nice to have something on the table that appeals to everyone. Eating is socializing. Otherwise, I just get a cup of broth and have it at my desk while working.

Then, there are celebrations. We had a birthday here during the initial stages of KD and no one wanted to go off the diet, so we just had a selection of seafood for the "celebration."

We celebrated Ark's birthday a week ago and I spent half the day in the kitchen preparing fried chicken, gravy, sweet potatoes, cabbage slaw and a gigantic chocolate cake that was super low carb and wonderful. It was an experiment that turned out extremely well and nobody suffered from the meal and I even doubt that anyone was knocked out of ketosis.

So, indeed, we need to move away from the materialism: food is fuel. But sitting together to eat is also a social activity and cooking together is also social, especially when you have 10 or more people to feed. No one person here does ALL the cooking, but some of us do a lot of it.

 

[lwu02eb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I completely agree that if you make a meal a social event, people tend to be less concerned about what is available on their plates. I am the lone cook in my house (by choice) and love cooking. I've never been a conventional cook though; rigid schedules and recipes don't appeal. I decide what we are having at the point of cooking, depending on what is on hand and I do my best with it. Once you have changed your mindset it is just a new challenge to make tasty, good looking meals.

This has been more and more the case since we started rearing, slaughtering and dressing our own rabbits and chickens. You become involved in the whole process and appreciate just what goes into each meal. It certainly makes you more appreciative of real food.

 

[zim]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Would like to give an update of my situation.

About my thyroids: I have to wait for another visit to the doctor, I need to do another test but I don’t want to take the medications that those doctors give because as soon as they see a low T3 they give Levothyroxine!!!! Im searching here in the forum for information with thyroid thread and Im searching in internet too about low T3 causes, which has many but among them they relate it to a celiac disease and Autoimmune diseases, . Here is one of the link I found out: http://www.sclero.org/medical/symptoms/associated/thyroid/a-to-z.html. Im using the Kokoro progesterone cream now!!! :)

About KD, With the bone broth I need to make some changes because I’m tired of the same kind, I’m looking new ways to improve my cooking abilities. Im checking this thread to find another ways to cook the bone broth, with pig´s foot and chicken :P!

I´m still didn’t get the 0 carbs I have much craving for “ platanos maduros” (I don’t know how it call it in English), those are plants like bananas (green and sweet), I eat them since I was a child, Oh God, Its getting hard to quit eat them :/ !!!!! Surely is my weak!!!! We planted them 2 years ago in our land, so we have harvest almost all year. I’m in a big battle with that plant because it is the only thing I crave for, I quit other foods easily but not this one!!!

I had “seeing” how my body feel about my food and I discovery many things, how I have a program of the “happy family meeting with my kids around the table”!!!! This is a program I saw with all the members of my family, the diference is they are in shock because I didn’t eat anything of their foods like corn, sugar, bread , etc, they always have a comment like "¡you are so thin that you must be sick!!!!

True. As a mother of five children who tended to assess her self-worth by whether or not there were leftovers at the end of the meal, cooking to make people I love happy is deeply engrained. But, I've mostly gotten over that though I do still think about doing some creative things in the kitchen with what IS well-tolerated by everyone. Like for breakfast, we have the standard bone broth that is on the stove ALL the time, then bacon, patty sausage and link sausage. So we have a platter with a nicely arranged selection of meats and another plate for eggs for those who can tolerate them Sitting at the table and talking is the one time of the day when many of us are together. We sort out problems, talk about the weirdness on the planet, analyze stuff, share what each of us is working on, and so forth. So it is nice to have something on the table that appeals to everyone. Eating is socializing. Otherwise, I just get a cup of broth and have it at my desk while working.

Yes it appears this is a felling of many women of the world??? “Cook to make the people you love happy”! Totally true!!!! :P

We celebrated Ark's birthday a week ago and I spent half the day in the kitchen preparing fried chicken, gravy, sweet potatoes, cabbage slaw and a gigantic chocolate cake that was super low carb and wonderful

Laura it is possible that you could put the recipe of your chocolate cake ? :P I thought in the KD we could not eat potatoes?

I´m still learning about the best way to deal with things in life, (cook, KD, can food, see oneself all day and other things) many things here are totally new for me, so it takes time to me to accomplish them.... each time I read some comment from Laura and other members, I said ¡Ohh it is so easy!!! I´ve never thought about that!!!!

In another hand, The last Saturday I went with my family to celebrate the last year of my first Daughter in high school, I ordered gluten free meal so they brought me a meat with salad I ate the meat, Oh Boy as soon as I finished the meat I felt sick, I got stomachache, during all week I had been sick. :/ So it hasn’t a good week to my body!!!!

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

We celebrated Ark's birthday a week ago and I spent half the day in the kitchen preparing fried chicken, gravy, sweet potatoes, cabbage slaw and a gigantic chocolate cake that was super low carb and wonderful

Laura it is possible that you could put the recipe of your chocolate cake ? :P I thought in the KD we could not eat potatoes?

I´m still learning about the best way to deal with things in life, (cook, KD, can food, see oneself all day and other things) many things here are totally new for me, so it takes time to me to accomplish them.... each time I read some comment from Laura and other members, I said ¡Ohh it is so easy!!! I´ve never thought about that!!!!

Keep in mind that this was a rare treat. I've been back on near zero carbs since. The potatoes were not white potatoes, but sweet potatoes. If you eat a small portion, like a tablespoon, you are pretty safe. And only if you do it only once or twice a week, IF THAT AT ALL.

I can't give the recipe for the cake because I don't measure stuff when I cook. I can tell you the ingredients and if you are familiar with the chemistry of cooking, you can probably replicate it.

The "flour" of the cake was ground cashews and arrowroot flour, half and half.
plain powdered gelatin
baking powder
I mixed all of the above together first.
Then, in a separate bowl:
Butter
Xylitol
vanilla
eggs
I creamed all that together and then added the flour mix.
Finally, we added powdered cocoa until we thought it looked and tasted just right. It was a rich, dark chocolate.

Basically, I made it with the proportions of a pound cake and used 10 eggs. Didn't make it too sweet either. Baked it in a bundt pan in a slow oven for a little over 2 hours.

It sliced very thin and held up. It was moist and very light in taste and texture.

For the icing: creamed butter with xylitol that has been run through the coffee grinder to make it a powder. Then, add pure cocoa powder until it is the right taste and consistency. Put it on a cool cake and refrigerate.

Interestingly, as I said, I did not make it very sweet, not even the icing, but we all thought it was perfect because we don't want anything very sweet anymore. Also, if I had not put xylitol in to sweeten it, it would have made one heck of a loaf of bread that would have been great for toasting and spreading liver pate on there! Maybe next time we allow ourselves a little celebration.

Be warned, you can only do this once in awhile and only AFTER you have spent at least a year detoxing and low-carbing to correct any issues. The best way to tell if you can do it is if you don't really crave doing it. If it is just as satisfying to you to have a pork chop, then you can probably handle an occasional celebration meal. And it is important to get right back on the low to zero carbs the next day.

 

[zim]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The potatoes were not white potatoes, but sweet potatoes. If you eat a small portion, like a tablespoon, you are pretty safe. And only if you do it only once or twice a week, IF THAT AT ALL.

Oh I see!!! We have white potatoes but I didnt eat them, they made joint pain and body pain.

I can't give the recipe for the cake because I don't measure stuff when I cook. I can tell you the ingredients and if you are familiar with the chemistry of cooking, you can probably replicate it.

The "flour" of the cake was ground cashews and arrowroot flour, half and half.
plain powdered gelatin
baking powder
I mixed all of the above together first.
Then, in a separate bowl:
Butter
Xylitol
vanilla
eggs
I creamed all that together and then added the flour mix.
Finally, we added powdered cocoa until we thought it looked and tasted just right. It was a rich, dark chocolate.

It sound delicious, my first reaction craving for it not good sign!!!! But it is a good example to do a cake with KD and celebrate

Be warned, you can only do this once in awhile and only AFTER you have spent at least a year detoxing and low-carbing to correct any issues. The best way to tell if you can do it is if you don't really crave doing it. If it is just as satisfying to you to have a pork chop, then you can probably handle an occasional celebration meal. And it is important to get right back on the low to zero carbs the next day

Im not in full KD yet!!! so keep working!!!! :P

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Recently I reconnected with a high school friend (58 y/o), and over the last year, I have been informing him of what we have learned from Paleo to KD in the context of health issues he has been dealing with and asking about. I asked him to get PBPM and read the the LWB thread and this one. He had great praise for PBPM, although I can't say for sure that he read all the thread material. Anyway here is his latest e-mail he sent me:

I will never go back to any semblance of my prior diet. This way of eating is the only way my body and brain can function in a normal, healthy fashion. My memory is returning, along with a much happier and mentally healthy outlook for the future. I can only assume that it will continue to improve until all cells are turned over and replaced with new ones. The exercise along with the food and GOOD supplements have even started to heal previous injuries that I never talk about. I just assumed that they were life long, and should keep quiet about the pain that radiates from within. I really can't have a slip-up either. I have already found that out the hard way! I haven't been able to get one person to even show the least bit of interest, and some are in really poor health. Oh well...

 

[aragorn]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

One of the leading Swedish LCHF researchers, Anders Eenfeldt, made recently an experiment where he checked his ketone and blood sugar levels after drinking soda with artificial sweetener (Pepsi Max). Here's what he found:

_http://www.dietdoctor.com/is-pepsi-max-bad-for-your-weight

Can artificial sweeteners from diet sodas affect your weight? My six hour experiment the other day implies that the answer might be yes.

The results can be seen above. I drank the Pepsi Max (17 oz.) after about an hour. The black line is the blood sugar and the purple line is the ketones.

Preparation

Earlier: Planning / Report 1

When the experiment started I was in pronounced ketosis since several weeks (due to a strict LCHF diet). I was fasting six hours before the experiment started.

The first four blood samples were taken before I started drinking Pepsi Max. Blood sugar and ketones were both a bit above 4 mmol/L (which equals a blood sugar of 72 mg/dl). The small variation in the first tests is probably due to the meter not being more exact (normal for home meters).

During the dark mark I drank the Pepsi (50 cl / 17 oz.), it took 10-15 minutes.

Blood glucose results

As you can see nothing special happened to my blood sugar during the experiment. It stayed at around 4,5 mmol/L (80 mg/dl) and the tiny variation is probably within the margin of error of the meter.

Ketone results

If nothing happened to my blood sugar the effect on my ketone levels were more dramatic. As I noted when planning the experiment one of my suspicions were that the artificial sweeteners might trigger a release of insulin. That would lower ketone levels, as ketones are very sensitive to insulin.

Fifteen minutes after drinking the Pepsi my ketone level appeared to drop, from around 4 to 3,4 mmol/L. Then it continued down during two and a half hours until it had dropped by almost 50 percent.

After that the ketone level started rising again. But when I stopped the experiment, almost five hours after drinking the soda, it was still not back where it had started.

What does this mean?

Pepsi Max and other products with artificial sweeteners are thought not to affect peoples weight, as they contain no calories. That’s an oversimplification that ignores any hormonal effects and resulting hunger. If the sweeteners slow your fat burning and increase your hunger they will of course affect your weight – calories or not.

What is clear from the experiment is that something happened. The ketone level dropped precipitously. My interpretation is that this potentially could result in a decreased fat burning, making it harder to lose weight. Perhaps this is due to insulin release, perhaps not.

I wonder: What if your fat burning is impaired for more than five hours, every time you ingest artificial sweeteners?

One objection: Was the culprit the artificial sweeteners or the caffeine in the soda? This experiment can’t tell, but I would gladly bet money on the sweeteners. Perhaps I’ll do a similar experiment later, drinking black coffee instead.

He has actually just done the experiment with coffee mentioned above, but the article hasn't yet been translated into English. But what he found was that coffee didn't have an effect on his ketone or blood sugar levels (he is on a ketogenic diet).

 

[MK Scarlett]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

One of the leading Swedish LCHF researchers, Anders Eenfeldt, made recently an experiment where he checked his ketone and blood sugar levels after drinking soda with artificial sweetener (Pepsi Max). Here's what he found:

_http://www.dietdoctor.com/is-pepsi-max-bad-for-your-weight
[...]
He has actually just done the experiment with coffee mentioned above, but the article hasn't yet been translated into English. But what he found was that coffee didn't have an effect on his ketone or blood sugar levels (he is on a ketogenic diet).

This looks an interesting study for those, numerous here... ;) who love coffee and would maybe drink some again, after a complete KD for several months, at least.
It is not my case, but it could. So...

 

[John G]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I adjusted my carb intake back up into the 20 g/d range, to see if it made a difference with the morning (pre-breakfast) daily headache I developed at 0 g/d, or with abdominal pains I experienced at that level. It did -- the headache went away within a few days, and the abdominal pains seem to have lessened over a period of a week or so. 20 g/d is still well down in the ketogenic range, and my fat burning seems fine. I do plan to try 0 g/d again.

My fasting glucose is not low: it's in the 90-100 range whether my carb intake is at 0 or 20. It goes down into the 80-90 range after eating, and I wonder if that is a vestige of my problems with hypoglycemia.

I might have a similar problem. My wife and I started the diet two days ago (Nov. 1) and this morning I had to get down on the floor and was flushed (which my hypoglycemic wife says is a hypoglycemia symptom). I have in the past had problems with skipping breakfast but I got diagnosed with a hyperventilating panic attack (I turn white not flushed). I can do this though for most anything "medical" like giving blood or hitting my head on a cabinet. So I might have something real followed by a panic attack maybe sometimes. Being flushed makes me think something real.

Being a weekend I did do things a little different. For Thursday and Friday I did three homemade sausage patties (probably about 35 grams of protein) for breakfast and two hard boiled eggs for lunch. A cup of broth between lunch and dinner, dinner of 8 oz or so of pork shoulder meat then a broth cup between dinner and bedtime. The broth was quite fatty but didn't seem gelly; used a half pound of marrow bone plus two pounds of femur bone that had a good amount of meat/tissue still on it and added water about an inch over bone level and cooked on low in the crockpot for 24 hours, adding water to keep the water level the same.

Today we did two scrambled eggs each fried in butter for breakfast so 16 grams of protein and we ate breakfast a couple hours later than during the week. We also had black tea which I didn't do during the week. Maybe a half hour later I got a little light headed and it felt like the panic attack thing and doing pipe breathing seemed to help although when I sat up again I had to go down again shortly and being flushed I'm pretty sure is a new thing for me. I had some cranberry sauce while down (about 20 grams carbs) and stayed in a recliner till after lunch (three sausage patties) and I feel totally fine now, a couple hours after lunch. Apparently I'm going to have to be a bit careful.

 

[Beau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

What was your diet like before you started the KD on Nov. 1? It sounds like maybe you jumped into the high fat/low carb diet too fast and your body was still used to carbs and sugar and when the two mixed you had a negative reaction to the increased fat in your diet. If you were previously eating carbs/sugar daily then going straight from that to a ketogenic diet can be jarring to the system, which may explain the light-headedness and flushing sensation. It's better to slowly work your way into this diet by gradually decreasing carbs and sugar from your system so your body has time to adjust to burning fat instead of glucose. If you jump whole hog into it, your body is going to react.