Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Deleted member 4320]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I live and travel around different cities in Poland and it is hard to get beef bones at all (pork bones are generally available, though yoou have to look for them also) and grass-fed beef is unavailable.

I bought 6 kilos of beef bones in the local Intermarche market yesterday (0,35$/kg).

What about meat wholesale store in your area? Generally, they have there "everything" what you want. Even if they don't have thereof on stock, surely, then they would direct you for whatever you want.

 

[Regulattor]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The worst were diarrheas but i found that i cannot use any other form of magnesium than aspartate...

Dr. Carolin Dean in her book Magnesium Miracle advice to avoid Magnesium aspartate due to possible neurotoxicity! Magnesium Taurate, Orotate, Glycinate or Citrate should be much safer and also relatively easily absorbable forms of oral Mg supplementation!

 

[osher]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Magnesium Taurate, Orotate, Glycinate or Citrate should be much safer and also relatively easily absorbable forms of oral Mg supplementation!

Of above I only found Mg citrate in Poland, which i cannot use, will search more for other forms mentioned, not so easy to get.

I bought 6 kilos of beef bones in the local Intermarche market yesterday (0,35$/kg).

I've also been buying beef bones in Intermarche in one small city, which was a little surprising, thanks for remembering. But for example in Poznan (not a small city) it seems it also could be the only place as they didn't have them at marketplace. It differs from one city to other and always when i move first thing to search for is bones...

As the dietary changes progresses, then your body starts to become more sensitive to all seeds, and then you start noticing inflammatory reactions to flaxseeds. Not everybody, but the idea being that there are better oils than flaxseed oil.

Common sense - no seeds! I thought so. (So, coffee?)

Thank you for information!

 

[Nienna]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The worst were diarrheas but i found that i cannot use any other form of magnesium than aspartate...

Dr. Carolin Dean in her book Magnesium Miracle advice to avoid Magnesium aspartate due to possible neurotoxicity! Magnesium Taurate, Orotate, Glycinate or Citrate should be much safer and also relatively easily absorbable forms of oral Mg supplementation!

There is also magnesium malate.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The worst were diarrheas but i found that i cannot use any other form of magnesium than aspartate...

Dr. Carolin Dean in her book Magnesium Miracle advice to avoid Magnesium aspartate due to possible neurotoxicity! Magnesium Taurate, Orotate, Glycinate or Citrate should be much safer and also relatively easily absorbable forms of oral Mg supplementation!

There is also magnesium malate.

True, the aspartate part will turn into a neurotoxin in the brain, like aspartame. I get magnesium lactate at the pharmacy. Works like a charm.

 

[Angchop]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

After a week and a half of reading, I am finally through this whole thread. Today I started on the Ketogenic diet...I have been on the paleo diet for quite awhile now, and I am hoping that the transistion won't be too difficult.

This morning I had my first bone broth and I must say the stuff is DIVINE! I felt so satisfied after having my cup of it, almost like my body felt like it was finally home. I am really excited about this. I feel a renewed sense of purpose. I am heading off to do some resistance exercises, and I plan on keeping a food journal through the process. I am looking forward to sharing my progress here :)

 

[Psalehesost]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

A problematic experience:

After discovering bone broth, I pretty much lived on it whenever available - until the time of the coffee experiment, the ensuing sickness, and nausea in connection to bone broth.

While at first everything seemed great, I think I actually ended up starving myself when I ate (often waterless) bone broth according to appetite and little else. Or such is my theory. In any case, I lost 5-6 kgs, weight dropping to a ridiculously low 46kg. (I was indeed already quite skinny.)

In hindsight, I think unnoticed self-starvation may also be the reason I gradually lost the stamina needed for resistence exercise. (I did some before - according to my normal, though still quite limited, strength and stamina, i.e. probably less than most of you. Neither strength nor stamina is impressive with me, and I don't build muscles easily.)

The last few days I have increased protein intake, and as a result am gaining back the lost weight, strength and stamina. I had also become more sensitive to cold, and according to others seemed dead-tired in the days just before and when again increasing protein. This seems to be reversing as well.

It is possible that some of the negative effects were due to residual illness, but not all, I think.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

A problematic experience:

After discovering bone broth, I pretty much lived on it whenever available - until the time of the coffee experiment, the ensuing sickness, and nausea in connection to bone broth.

While at first everything seemed great, I think I actually ended up starving myself when I ate (often waterless) bone broth according to appetite and little else. Or such is my theory. In any case, I lost 5-6 kgs, weight dropping to a ridiculously low 46kg. (I was indeed already quite skinny.)

In hindsight, I think unnoticed self-starvation may also be the reason I gradually lost the stamina needed for resistence exercise. (I did some before - according to my normal, though still quite limited, strength and stamina, i.e. probably less than most of you. Neither strength nor stamina is impressive with me, and I don't build muscles easily.)

The last few days I have increased protein intake, and as a result am gaining back the lost weight, strength and stamina. I had also become more sensitive to cold, and according to others seemed dead-tired in the days just before and when again increasing protein. This seems to be reversing as well.

It is possible that some of the negative effects were due to residual illness, but not all, I think.

It sounds like protein deficiency. When we don't get enough protein our body will cannibalize muscle stores to get the protein it needs leading to weight loss (although it's loss of muscle mass, not fat), tiredness and many of the other symptoms you mention. Remember that bone broth, and particularly gelatin, is not a complete protein. That means that it can't be expected to meet all of your daily protein requirements alone. You need some meat.

I'm glad you caught this before it got really bad, Psalehesost. I think it would be wise to go heavy on the protein for awhile until you can recover completely from this. I would wait until muscle mass is back and energy has returned before returning to any restrictions on protein, IMO.

 

[Skyfarmr]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thank you so much for all the great information and folks sharing their experiences.

The following post by Foxx made me wonder about the store bought gelatin.
My husband has a physically demanding job and accompanying joint problems, sweet tooth, alcoholism, addictions to painkillers (to cope with joint problems), sleeping disturbances....in short, he's a mess! (as a result, so is our marriage) Anyway, I bought some gelatin in hopes of supplementing husband's diet to help his joints rebuild thereby eliminating the source of pain which triggers him to take hydrocodone, then boosting it with alcohol, and perpetuating this crazy cycle of addiction.

I also made some homemade jello out of this gelatin:

_http://www.amazon.com/Great-Lakes-Unflavored-Gelatin-16-Ounce/dp/B001ELLBJS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347195547&sr=8-1

The Kosher kind says it comes from grass fed beef from Argentina and Brazil. The non-kosher kind comes from pigs and sounded potentially questionable to me. Here's their FAQ page:

_http://www.greatlakesgelatin.com/consumer/FAQs.php

I also just added a bit of the gelatin to the latest batch of bone broth currently being made for extra springiness. Some of the amazon reviews talk about people reducing joint cracking after taking this gelatin for a month or so (though presumably any high-gelatin bone broth would be at least as effective, I imagine) and I've had a lot of joint cracking forever, so I'm hoping that's one of the results.

If we don't have bone broth on hand, do you think it would be an OK substitute in a pinch to use the unflavored gelatin and maybe flavor it with organic broth concentrate, or steep with a combination of herbs such as nettles, red raspberry leaves, parsley ? (I happen to have a lot of these on hand)

This herb combo is abundant in calcium (nettles), magnesium (red raspberry) and potassium (parsley) as well as other minerals, (rather than having to take a magnesium and potassium supplements). Although we do take magnesium supplements I was thinking this combination could fulfill some of the mineral requirements, and my husband wouldn't have to remember to take them(supplements) between meals.

Just a note which is long overdue... I want to take a moment to thank everyone contributing their experiences, knowledge and questions on so many topics. My husband cleaned up for about a month this summer with the help of the great information shared on this site. He was grateful and surprised at how he was able to quit alcohol and pills with the supplements and diet that was recommended for addictions, with fewer painful detox symptoms. (He's gone through this detox business before.... I've lost count) Staying clean is such a "head game", though. We're hoping that by him taking bone broth regularly, while cutting back on carbs/sugar will help with the pain trigger part of his addiction so he can better tackle the "head game".
Long bumpy road ahead...
Thank you so much everyone; all your shared wisdom sustains my hope that we can transform...
or at least move toward that direction.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Gelatin isn't going to help with joint problems until the inflammatory factors are removed from the diet completely. It would be like giving vitamins to someone along with their arsenic.

 

[Horseofadifferentcolor]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thank you so much for all the great information and folks sharing their experiences.

The following post by Foxx made me wonder about the store bought gelatin.
My husband has a physically demanding job and accompanying joint problems, sweet tooth, alcoholism, addictions to painkillers (to cope with joint problems), sleeping disturbances....in short, he's a mess! (as a result, so is our marriage) Anyway, I bought some gelatin in hopes of supplementing husband's diet to help his joints rebuild thereby eliminating the source of pain which triggers him to take hydrocodone, then boosting it with alcohol, and perpetuating this crazy cycle of addiction.

I also made some homemade jello out of this gelatin:

_http://www.amazon.com/Great-Lakes-Unflavored-Gelatin-16-Ounce/dp/B001ELLBJS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347195547&sr=8-1

The Kosher kind says it comes from grass fed beef from Argentina and Brazil. The non-kosher kind comes from pigs and sounded potentially questionable to me. Here's their FAQ page:

_http://www.greatlakesgelatin.com/consumer/FAQs.php

I also just added a bit of the gelatin to the latest batch of bone broth currently being made for extra springiness. Some of the amazon reviews talk about people reducing joint cracking after taking this gelatin for a month or so (though presumably any high-gelatin bone broth would be at least as effective, I imagine) and I've had a lot of joint cracking forever, so I'm hoping that's one of the results.

If we don't have bone broth on hand, do you think it would be an OK substitute in a pinch to use the unflavored gelatin and maybe flavor it with organic broth concentrate, or steep with a combination of herbs such as nettles, red raspberry leaves, parsley ? (I happen to have a lot of these on hand)

This herb combo is abundant in calcium (nettles), magnesium (red raspberry) and potassium (parsley) as well as other minerals, (rather than having to take a magnesium and potassium supplements). Although we do take magnesium supplements I was thinking this combination could fulfill some of the mineral requirements, and my husband wouldn't have to remember to take them(supplements) between meals.

Just a note which is long overdue... I want to take a moment to thank everyone contributing their experiences, knowledge and questions on so many topics. My husband cleaned up for about a month this summer with the help of the great information shared on this site. He was grateful and surprised at how he was able to quit alcohol and pills with the supplements and diet that was recommended for addictions, with fewer painful detox symptoms. (He's gone through this detox business before.... I've lost count) Staying clean is such a "head game", though. We're hoping that by him taking bone broth regularly, while cutting back on carbs/sugar will help with the pain trigger part of his addiction so he can better tackle the "head game".
Long bumpy road ahead...
Thank you so much everyone; all your shared wisdom sustains my hope that we can transform...
or at least move toward that direction.

Before I started this diet with bone broth my knees sounded like a bowl of rice crispies! I now feel like I have new knees,new back, and hands that are 10 years younger. But, if I so much eat a tomatoe slice my knees flare up almost right away if not the next morning. Also coming from a beer lover its NOT worth the pain in joints that it brings.
Once he regularly has bone broth and gets rid of things like beer, potatoes, pepers, and what not, he will have no need for painkillers. I was on the verge of having surgery to both knees, so it was very painful. Almost sounds unbelievable but it is true. My husband at first did not want bone broth either so I started calling mushroom soup with rib meat! He loves it and I dont have to force feed him(broth) anymore..... heee hhe :P
Hope this helps

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Before I started this diet with bone broth my knees sounded like a bowl of rice crispies! I now feel like I have new knees,new back, and hands that are 10 years younger. But, if I so much eat a tomatoe slice my knees flare up almost right away if not the next morning. Also coming from a beer lover its NOT worth the pain in joints that it brings.
Once he regularly has bone broth and gets rid of things like beer, potatoes, pepers, and what not, he will have no need for painkillers. I was on the verge of having surgery to both knees, so it was very painful. Almost sounds unbelievable but it is true. My husband at first did not want bone broth either so I started calling mushroom soup with rib meat! He loves it and I dont have to force feed him(broth) anymore..... heee hhe :P
Hope this helps

Me too! My knees were that bad too! And my back, shoulders, wrists, fingers, hips... and so on. For me, it is so fantastic to be without any pain! It is a boring diet, yes, but the good thing about it is that it mostly satisfies the body so hunger and cravings just go away. That is a blessing!

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It is a boring diet, yes

You think :)? I think that I was made to eat fat and meat (including fish, sea food and organ meat) :D jokes aside, I have to admit I'm loving it, I can't get tired of this!

On a different note, it seems that I can't have any other sources of food apart from animal. I had already eliminated all vegetables before because I noticed bloating. Lately though, I've been having bad abdominal cramps, again. The type I used to have when I was still eating gluten and dairy.
I've been in a constant bad mood over the past days because my attention is diverted to my angry belly. Well, today I tried not eating the onion that was part of the roast we did the other day and had no pain, none whatsoever. I should have figured this out before, but I didn't. I guess that because I was only eating tiny bits of onion with the meat chunks, I didn't even account for that. Well, those tiny bits sure were creating a mess in my gut.

 

[loreta]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It is a boring diet, yes

You think :)? I think that I was made to eat fat and meat (including fish, sea food and organ meat) :D jokes aside, I have to admit I'm loving it, I can't get tired of this!

On a different note, it seems that I can't have any other sources of food apart from animal. I had already eliminated all vegetables before because I noticed bloating. Lately though, I've been having bad abdominal cramps, again. The type I used to have when I was still eating gluten and dairy.
I've been in a constant bad mood over the past days because my attention is diverted to my angry belly. Well, today I tried not eating the onion that was part of the roast we did the other day and had no pain, none whatsoever. I should have figured this out before, but I didn't. I guess that because I was only eating tiny bits of onion with the meat chunks, I didn't even account for that. Well, those tiny bits sure were creating a mess in my gut.

Onions I think are inflammatory. I used to eat a lot of onions before February. I stopped to eat them since the beginning of the low carbohydrate diet and never touched them again. For me onions and tomatoes are prohibited for, I imagine, the rest of my life.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Onions I think are inflammatory. I used to eat a lot of onions before February. I stopped to eat them since the beginning of the low carbohydrate diet and never touched them again. For me onions and tomatoes are prohibited for, I imagine, the rest of my life.

Yes, I may be going down your route of not eating onions ever again...we'll see. I think that it may be the fiber in them that caused the pain. In any case, I do love onions, but I'm feeling SO much better right now that I don't mind never eating them again.

The strange thing is that I hadn't noticed this sensitivity before, apart from when eating raw onions. It seems that may gut has been slightly more sensitive since I made the mistake of trying a 1/4 of glass of raw milk a few weeks ago, which also caused abdominal pain for several days. It was either that, or it's simply my body giving me clearer signs of what it doesn't like.