Killary Clinton, The Donald, or Jill Stein: The US Election

Windmill knight said:
That's something I wonder about myself. Does he (and others like him) do that consciously, or is it rather a sort of semi-instinctive way of behaving that he has found in the past that works through trial and error? It's like that thing that apparently psychopaths have of being able to tell if someone is a potential victim by simply looking at their mannerisms or even the way they walk. (This was mentioned in a documentary about psychopathy.) Personally, I find it hard to believe that they are so smart that they figured that out by studying psychology or hypnotic techniques, so I think it's more experiential or intuitive on their part. Creepy either way.

I wondered the same thing for a long time - how 'aware' are psychopaths? And in the word 'aware' lies the answer I think: they are not. From my experience/interaction with people who I strongly suspect of being psychopaths, I kind of came to the stunning conclusion that they really do believe what they say, they really do believe that they are doing 'good'... So imagining them sitting around in some kind of evil council, studying psychology and planning mankind's destruction, corruption and enslavement, might actually be a projection of normal people, 'turned upside down' so to speak. It seems they are not operating this way - I guess that would be more the 'job' of the schizoidals in the ponerized system.

Consider for example this excerpt from 'Propaganda' by Edward Bernays:

Propaganda said:
THE conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.
We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.
Our invisible governors are, in many cases, unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet.
They govern us by their qualities of natural leadership, their ability to supply needed ideas and by their key position in the social structure. Whatever attitude one chooses to take toward this condition, it remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons—a trifling fraction of our hundred and twenty million—who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.

Now Bernays might have been more of a schizoidal type and not so much a psychopath - he is of course conscious of many 'propaganda tricks'/spell binding. But notice how he is absolutely convinced that this is good and necessary for human life! I don't think he pretends, he really thinks he's advancing humanity here!

In a similar way, I think psychopaths/spell binders really do believe they are 'good', and unlike the schizoidals, they are not really aware and don't care how their 'powers' work; they just learned in the course of their lives that they can manipulate people in certain ways, which they then perfect (notice that Trump was a salesman). Maybe they have a feeling that they are 'different' and better than the rest and then see it as their 'moral duty' to lead the masses, not realizing what is really going on (and not caring about it). OSIT

I could be wrong of course - it's really hard to understand what's going on inside those 'people'...
 
Pierre said:
Trump's body language is interesting too. In the video posted above, he keeps doing a chopping movement with his right hand. This movement is in sync which his intonations which is put on almost each syllabus, leading to an hypnotic spelling beat.

I remember Laura mentioning that this chopping hand movement may be one of the visible signs of psychopathy.

Yep. Trump is just an extension of the Zio agenda, which now continues accelerating in the states. With US Law enforcement trained by Israeli military police (state).

Homegrown Terrorists
Published on Jan 23, 2016

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o98MIBuaKbo

Political Ponerology: A Science on The Nature of Evil adjusted for Political Purposes
Laura Knight-Jadczyk
Sott.net
Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:56 UTC
http://www.sott.net/article/224670-Political-Ponerology-A-Science-on-The-Nature-of-Evil-adjusted-for-Political-Purposes
Pathocracy is a disease of great social movements followed by entire societies, nations, and empires. In the course of human history, it has affected social, political, and religious movements as well as the accompanying ideologies and turned them into caricatures of themselves. This occurred as a result of the participation of pathological agents in a pathodynamically similar process. That explains why all the pathocracies of the world are, and have been, so similar in their essential properties.

Identifying these phenomena through history and properly qualifying them according to their true nature and contents - not according to the ideology in question, which succumbed to the process of caricaturization - is a job for historians.

The actions of [pathocracy] affect an entire society, starting with the leaders and infiltrating every town, business, and institution. The pathological social structure gradually covers the entire country creating a "new class" within that nation. This privileged class [of pathocrats] feels permanently threatened by the "others", i.e. by the majority of normal people. Neither do the pathocrats entertain any illusions about their personal fate should there be a return to the system of normal man.
- Andrew M. Lobaczewski, Political Ponerology: A science on the nature of evil adjusted for political purposes


DONALD TRUMP 2016 GOP Debate PEACE in the Middle East PLAN
Published on Nov 11, 2015

Austin Police Department Goon Squad breaks up fun on Sixth Street (camera 2)
Published on Jan 16, 2016
 
I think that Trump's success is mostly due to Americans being fed up with the establishment. He is a guy who finances his own campaign and therefore appears not to have been bought.

He actually speaks out some important truths that most of the other candidates avoid to even touch upon. Corruption in politics is one of them.

He also appears to have a much saner stance on Putin - there was TV interview where he correctly pointed out that allegations of Putin's wrongdoings are not the same thing as truth or that the US should support Russia in Syria.

I think Putin also sort of endorsed him, so I'm not sure if he is indeed such a bad choice among the candidates.

I tend to agree. Plenty to dislike here, but how is he really any worse than the others? I don't think his style is any more practiced than just being his usual blowhard self. He loves attention. Nothing new here.The most interesting thing is seeing the world-wide media machine reacting to him in lockstep. Have you ever heard of a case of moves made to ban an American political candidate from entering other countries, or having his membership privileges revoked for behavior? These 'clubs' are likely swarming with pedophiles, criminal bankers and maybe even worse. Trump spoke an opinion is all. And anyway, how often does it happen that what they say is what they do in office? Of all of them, he is the least controlled and it shows. The difference is refreshing to a lot of people.
 
I was talking to a co-worker today who knows several 'old school' fiscal republicans... and she said they made it clear to her that they're scared by Trump's success, too. If nothing else, it must be unnerving to see that their traditional 'base' has been stolen out from under them.

Hard to say whether the percentage of authoritarian followers in the US population has risen recently from what it used to be...or whether there were always that many.... and the U.S. is embarrassed since all the world can now see it clearly.
 
Yupo said:
I think that Trump's success is mostly due to Americans being fed up with the establishment. He is a guy who finances his own campaign and therefore appears not to have been bought.

He actually speaks out some important truths that most of the other candidates avoid to even touch upon. Corruption in politics is one of them.

He also appears to have a much saner stance on Putin - there was TV interview where he correctly pointed out that allegations of Putin's wrongdoings are not the same thing as truth or that the US should support Russia in Syria.

I think Putin also sort of endorsed him, so I'm not sure if he is indeed such a bad choice among the candidates.

I tend to agree. Plenty to dislike here, but how is he really any worse than the others? I don't think his style is any more practiced than just being his usual blowhard self. He loves attention. Nothing new here.The most interesting thing is seeing the world-wide media machine reacting to him in lockstep. Have you ever heard of a case of moves made to ban an American political candidate from entering other countries, or having his membership privileges revoked for behavior? These 'clubs' are likely swarming with pedophiles, criminal bankers and maybe even worse. Trump spoke an opinion is all. And anyway, how often does it happen that what they say is what they do in office? Of all of them, he is the least controlled and it shows. The difference is refreshing to a lot of people.

That's Putin's pragmatism and diplomacy. Trump to Putin is okay, insofaras he brings Westernia closer to its ignominious end.

I mean... Trump is NO match for Putin.

Trump is ticking fascist time bomb! I don't think he's smart. That's not what makes him scary. It's his ability to overtly induce a fascist mob of followers. People are frustrated, and Trump USES that anger but not to actually solve problems, but to get a bunch of followers to direct their anger to do his bidding. He convinces them of an enemy - whomever it may be at the time, and they attack.

It is spellbinding/hypnosis at a large scale: People are WILLINGLY inviting and welcoming fascism.

But he's not intelligent - at least I don't think so. I see him as very reactionary. He's not a planner, he's not strategic, and that's his failing. It makes him an easier opponent - you know exactly what to expect from him.

I would pick Trump as an opponent over Hillary ANY day! At least when you're on Trumps bad side you'll know! Hillary on the other hand - she's a slithering, EVIL, sneaky, conniving snake... In a suit.
 
Pierre said:
Trump's body language is interesting too. In the video posted above, he keeps doing a chopping movement with his right hand. This movement is in sync which his intonations which is put on almost each syllabus, leading to an hypnotic spelling beat.

I remember Laura mentioning that this chopping hand movement may be one of the visible signs of psychopathy.

It's quite telling how the embodied cognition of psychopaths conflates persuasion with attacking or striking someone.

That's Putin's pragmatism and diplomacy. Trump to Putin is okay, insofaras he brings Westernia closer to its ignominious end.

Don't be so quick to doubt his sincerity. It's been reported Putin also got along well with George Bush Jr. and Silvio Berlusconi. The "tell-it-like-it-is" straight shooters tend to be more overt jerks than more tactfully speaking politicians, but I think Putin finds them much more entertaining and refreshing to relate to than the more tightly-buttoned "professional" politicians he's been forced to deal with.
 
When it comes to Berlusconi or even GWB, both were pretty friendly towards Russia. The same seems to be the case with Trump. I think that is the main reason why Putin is or was on good terms with them.

I also think that we should not underestimate Trump's intelligence or strategic thinking. It's easy to dismiss him when only looking at his overblown rhetoric, but even that seems to have strategic thinking behind it. The media report his remarks for free and he had to spend almost no money in his campaign so far, while people like Jeb Bush already spent tens of millions.
 
I have a tendency to dismiss him myself, but that is probably because of my surroundings. People who are just fine with the likes of GWB, McCain, Romney, all somehow find it obvious that Trump is narcissistic, some ludicrous reality-tv personality, or stupid, or otherwise extreme. He also seems to be a bit too independent from the establishment in terms of foreign policy, or in any case unpredictable, which is why if I were a betting man would say that at some point some old 'new' Trump controversy will come up and someone else will win. Rubio, Cruz, and Bush (and Graham) were the ones who consistently made me want to vomit, so I guess that one of them will be president. :rolleyes:

If Trump does win that would set a horrific precedent, though. People's models get worse and worse.
 
Solie said:
Yupo said:
I think that Trump's success is mostly due to Americans being fed up with the establishment. He is a guy who finances his own campaign and therefore appears not to have been bought.

He actually speaks out some important truths that most of the other candidates avoid to even touch upon. Corruption in politics is one of them.

He also appears to have a much saner stance on Putin - there was TV interview where he correctly pointed out that allegations of Putin's wrongdoings are not the same thing as truth or that the US should support Russia in Syria.

I think Putin also sort of endorsed him, so I'm not sure if he is indeed such a bad choice among the candidates.

I tend to agree. Plenty to dislike here, but how is he really any worse than the others? I don't think his style is any more practiced than just being his usual blowhard self. He loves attention. Nothing new here.The most interesting thing is seeing the world-wide media machine reacting to him in lockstep. Have you ever heard of a case of moves made to ban an American political candidate from entering other countries, or having his membership privileges revoked for behavior? These 'clubs' are likely swarming with pedophiles, criminal bankers and maybe even worse. Trump spoke an opinion is all. And anyway, how often does it happen that what they say is what they do in office? Of all of them, he is the least controlled and it shows. The difference is refreshing to a lot of people.

That's Putin's pragmatism and diplomacy. Trump to Putin is okay, insofaras he brings Westernia closer to its ignominious end.

I mean... Trump is NO match for Putin.

Trump is ticking fascist time bomb! I don't think he's smart. That's not what makes him scary. It's his ability to overtly induce a fascist mob of followers. People are frustrated, and Trump USES that anger but not to actually solve problems, but to get a bunch of followers to direct their anger to do his bidding. He convinces them of an enemy - whomever it may be at the time, and they attack.

It is spellbinding/hypnosis at a large scale: People are WILLINGLY inviting and welcoming fascism.

But he's not intelligent - at least I don't think so. I see him as very reactionary. He's not a planner, he's not strategic, and that's his failing. It makes him an easier opponent - you know exactly what to expect from him.

I would pick Trump as an opponent over Hillary ANY day! At least when you're on Trumps bad side you'll know! Hillary on the other hand - she's a slithering, EVIL, sneaky, conniving snake... In a suit.

Like axj said, do not underestimate that guy. He himself said he was running a show, and that was 25 years ago. Do you think he's running for president by chance? I do not like him, but just because he plays an arrogant prick doesn't mean he isn't smart enough to do what he needs to do.
 
The media report his remarks for free and he had to spend almost no money in his campaign so far, while people like Jeb Bush already spent tens of millions.

I had not thought about that. No such thing as bad publicity, they say. As long as he is the center of attention...
 
you guys are right. There's just something so sketchy about Trump that almost makes me want to not take him seriously. Maybe I am underestimating him but I don't seem to understand his strategy if there is one. He just comes off super egomaniacal.

He claims he has an understanding of people but it's very faulty. To me his 'understanding' is just manipulation. He knows how to manipulate. It's so overt and it's shocking how far he has gotten with that.

I just imagine his presence in office causing undenialable chaos like what we see in rallies if he ever dares to implement even half of what he claims he will. But I guess that's giving him too much power anyway, as we all know, it's never the so called president that runs the show.
 
One prediction is that Rubio will be the Republican nominee, but Hillary Clinton will win the presidency. (FWIW This comes from someone on a private bookseller's forum I belong to, who has made a serious hobby of predicting US elections, taking into account things like changing demographics in each state.)
 
Well, I think that it is blatantly obvious that Trump is seriously pathological. And it is quite fascinating and at the same time scary, to witness that even a lot of people on the alternative spectrum fall for the guy. And even more astounding is that, even here (of all places!), some seem to be taken in by him, in one way or the other. That doesn't bode well for the state of the world IMO, when even a lot of people who have the capacity and knowledge to know it better, fall for it. What kind of psycho Trump is, doesn't really matter, because the end result will be/is the same anyway. In the refugee crisis the same thing happens. Most of the alternative people are falling for the propaganda there also.

What makes the situation much worst today, then in the past, is the fact that so many people have a golden plate (aka. the internet and the connected world) in front of them that makes it so easy for them to find out the object truth (comared to other ages). And still most of them remain ignorant. That invites disaster on a big scale pretty quickly IMO.

Łobaczewski pretty much described the process that leads to that kind of cognitive dissonance in large portions of the population. Wheter or not Trump will become the president is another question. I don't think the polls are faked at this stage. It indeed looks like the majority is supporting trump, because he speaks openly and quite often "truthfully". People want finally someone who is honest and strait forward as president. Trump is indeed quite honest and strait forward, compared to the usual politicians. The difference is though, that he is honestly, strait forwardly and openly narcissistic/psychopathic... compared to the others. He just doesn't pretend that hard that he is a nice guy. That has nothing to do with real decency. But most people seem to think that is the case.

I'm not sure if the PTB really want him as president, because he might be just too open and not that well controllable compared to other psychos. A while ago, I read somewhere that Trump might be there to steer things up for somebody else like bush. Could very well be. I think this time it will most likely be a republican, because the overall tenor in the country seems to be, that the democrats have screwed up and Republicans need to fix it again. In order to preserve the illusion of free choice in America.

Sanders might be a wild card too, since he plays the Obama role form back then. Hope and all that.

But at this stage I wouldn't say it is impossible either that the PTB are crazy enough to actually put Trump out there as president. As for Putins stands on Trump, one should always remember that Putin is a masterful diplomat, statesman, spy, lawyer and strategist with a conscience who has a masterful team behind him as well. Everything he says and does has to be looked at from a broader perspective. We should know that by now. Part of that story might be, that Putin noticed that Trump pretends (which I think he knows, that he is pretending) that the US should be more friendly with russia and that people noticed his words about that in the US and the rest of the world. I think that is one of the reasons why he choose to say "nice" diplomatic things about Trump.

I remember when russia started to get involved in Syria: I literally started to cry, because I thought that finally things are going to change and the cards are starting to switch. Now it becomes clearer then ever, that there isn't much that will/can change the path humanity is taking. The fact that the world literally hangs in the hands of one man and his government, doesn't bode well either. What if Putin and staff wouldn't be there? The world literally hangs on a very thin thread, that can be cut any minute and in fact is well on the way towards destruction.
 
Pashalis said:
Well, I think that it is blatantly obvious that Trump is seriously pathological. And it is quite fascinating and at the same time scary, to witness that even a lot of people on the alternative spectrum fall for the guy. And even more astounding is that, even here (of all places!), some seem to be taken in by him, in one way or the other. That doesn't bode well for the state of the world IMO, when even a lot of people who have the capacity and knowledge to know it better, fall for it. What kind of psycho Trump is, doesn't really matter, because the end result will be/is the same anyway. In the refugee crisis the same thing happens. Most of the alternative people are falling for the propaganda there also.

What makes the situation much worst today, then in the past, is the fact that so many people have a golden plate (aka. the internet and the connected world) in front of them that makes it so easy for them to find out the object truth (comared to other ages). And still most of them remain ignorant. That invites disaster on a big scale pretty quickly IMO.

Łobaczewski pretty much described the process that leads to that kind of cognitive dissonance in large portions of the population. Wheter or not Trump will become the president is another question. I don't think the polls are faked at this stage. It indeed looks like the majority is supporting trump, because he speaks openly and quite often "truthfully". People want finally someone who is honest and strait forward as president. Trump is indeed quite honest and strait forward, compared to the usual politicians. The difference is though, that he is honestly, strait forwardly and openly narcissistic/psychopathic... compared to the others. He just doesn't pretend that hard that he is a nice guy. That has nothing to do with real decency. But most people seem to think that is the case.

I'm not sure if the PTB really want him as president, because he might be just too open and not that well controllable compared to other psychos. A while ago, I read somewhere that Trump might be there to steer things up for somebody else like bush. Could very well be. I think this time it will most likely be a republican, because the overall tenor in the country seems to be, that the democrats have screwed up and Republicans need to fix it again. In order to preserve the illusion of free choice in America.

Sanders might be a wild card too, since he plays the Obama role form back then. Hope and all that.

But at this stage I wouldn't say it is impossible either that the PTB are crazy enough to actually put Trump out there as president. As for Putins stands on Trump, one should always remember that Putin is a masterful diplomat, statesman, spy, lawyer and strategist with a conscience who has a masterful team behind him as well. Everything he says and does has to be looked at from a broader perspective. We should know that by now. Part of that story might be, that Putin noticed that Trump pretends (which I think he knows, that he is pretending) that the US should be more friendly with russia and that people noticed his words about that in the US and the rest of the world. I think that is one of the reasons why he choose to say "nice" diplomatic things about Trump.

I remember when russia started to get involved in Syria: I literally started to cry, because I thought that finally things are going to change and the cards are starting to switch. Now it becomes clearer then ever, that there isn't much that will/can change the path humanity is taking. The fact that the world literally hangs in the hands of one man and his government, doesn't bode well either. What if Putin and staff wouldn't be there? The world literally hangs on a very thin thread, that can be cut any minute and in fact is well on the way towards destruction.

Well said, Pashalis! I agree with you on all points. I think it is freaking out some republicans just well he does, in spite of him literally saying the most unspeakable things wherever he goes. It reflects the state of the world we're in now.
If he were to be elected president, I wonder how PTB would plan to keep him controlled. It seems that Hillary would be easier to control for the puppet masters.

As I see it, Trump and Bernie Sanders are simply utilizing discontent among the people to become popular; Trump assuming the "are you fed up with politicians and their carefully crafted words?" role and Sanders going after the "I'm anti-establishment/Wall Street" one.
Either way, it's interesting how it just swaps back and forth, Republican vs Democrat, and it's just the illusion of choice.
In the U.S., it might now head into the Republican direction, while in Taiwan, the opposite just happened. But will there be change, as it is always promised and never delivered upon?
 

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