Laura's Book "From Paul to Mark" is out!!!! ... And in French too

[mbww]

Yeah, it's obvious he didn't read it. I mean, if he did it was in record time. One can hardly get through the first two hundred pages with any comprehension in the amount of time mbww claims to have read it. Unless he somehow had access to it earlier than the rest of us but read without understanding what he was reading.

Here’s a productivity tip:
You can listen to your Kindle books with Alexa these days, or... if you’re a bit tech-inclined, convert any book purchased through Kindle into a portable format and then listen to it just like you listen to an audiobook. Buy a pair of bluetooth pods and install a reader app that has TTS capabilities and you can listen to your book on your smartphone all day long while doing your routines. Moreover, you can adjust the read/listening speed (I usually listen at 1.5-2x to every podcast/audiobook/youtube) and bookmark/take notes if needed. Sigh note: not all the books are available on Kindle.
Enjoy your read-listening experience and thank me later.

 

[jhonny]

I expressed my doubts about such an endeavor however, my view being that aiming for the “historical truth” challenging the generally-established narrative is probably not the most important thing to focus one's energies on. When you deal with such a complex phenomenon like religion and especially Christianity there are multiple layers that extend to the other realms and the reality may not be as linear as we perceive it and accessible with our current reasoning and investigative methods

This is a personal choice, you choose to believe in generally-established narratives, BUT this doesn't mean that there is a truth which can be discovered and that there are lies to be demolished, and that there are people interested in doing this with solid arguments and historical facts, as Laura does.

I could be wrong, but this quote of yours describes clearly what's your point, and your thinking.

 

[Ant22]

Here’s a productivity tip: You can listen to your Kindle books with Alexa these days, or... if you’re a bit tech-inclined, convert any book purchased through Kindle into a portable format and then listen to it just like you listen to an audiobook. Buy a pair of bluetooth pods and install a reader app that has TTS capabilities and you can listen to your book on your smartphone all day long while doing your routines. Moreover, you can adjust the read/listening speed (I usually listen at 1.5-2x to every podcast/audiobook/youtube) and bookmark/take notes if needed. Sigh note: not all the books are available on Kindle.
Enjoy your read-listening experience and thank me later.

I’d say the definition of productivity mentions something about the quality of outputs. Given what you wrote it’s clear your technological adjustments didn’t do much to aid your understanding of the book. They hindered it to the point that your posts read like you never read the book - or like you have cognitive issues.

Maybe next time try sitting down and reading at a normal speed instead of listening at double speed while doing the dishes, driving, or whatever else you were doing. Multitasking clearly ain’t your strength.

Not to mention that members of this forum are unlikely to have an Alexa. If you do, you clearly haven’t been paying attention. And ironically, paying attention (to what you read) is what has prompted this conversation in the first place. Seems to be a bit of a pattern with you.

 

[Laura]

I’m sorry if you felt that way, I didn’t mean any insult, and if you think that I misunderstood or missed details in the book I apologize and I’m moving on - just please don't take it personally.

As an exegesis with all its methodology I recognized your effort, as well as touching on the theological and spiritual aspect of Christian doctrine, Zoroastrism, Judaism et al. My only contention was with taking Jesus out of the picture - I was hoping for a plot twist till the end… If your aim was the truth and nothing but the truth, I get that, and it’s a noble mission to embark on. I think that’s what you think I didn’t understand. I expressed my doubts about such an endeavor however, my view being that aiming for the “historical truth” challenging the generally-established narrative is probably not the most important thing to focus one's energies on. When you deal with such a complex phenomenon like religion and especially Christianity there are multiple layers that extend to the other realms and the reality may not be as linear as we perceive it and accessible with our current reasoning and investigative methods, so….maybe we should try to tackle the subject from different angles and be less concerned about fact-checking every detail we encounter, because the sum is more than its parts!?

I wish I could read your book before its publication, and perhaps could make some suggestions. A good editor would have made some observations along the lines of my previous notes: “Look, the book is well researched and written, however, throwing baby Jesus with the bath water drastically reduces the area of exploration and you may be left with limited options… Are you sure you wanna take that route?” You could have included a preface note saying: “This is an attempt to revisit the Christ myth theory with a personal angle, I've been sitting on the idea for years, here's my take”. Punch line/conclusion goes in the opening nowadays (whether it’s jokes or serious stuff), so I would have suggested starting with the Caesar scene rather than leaving it for the end in the cliffhanger tradition of Agatha Christie detective style...that’s old school.

As for the next book, if I may suggest try to delve deeper into the real forces (metaphysical, psychological or of other nature) that have shaped Christianity into a religion: ‘From Golgotha to Google - How Christianity became the dominant religious force for two millennia from a failed messianic cult to the church-state complex’; Or, ‘Was it pre-ordained? - Why Christianity prevailed in spite of all nonsense and conventional wisdom’; ‘Optimal religion? - An investigation into how humanity's consciousness was advanced (or slowed down) by Judeo-Christianity’.

To give you one cue: I’ve been thinking a lot about the Last Supper. One of the most iconic scenes. There's so much to its iconography (the numbers/count, the pose, the windows triptych in the background, the symmetry, the angles) - how could Da Vinci and other artists and builders later on have known and adhered to so many hidden clues and symbols from the perennial Tradition and incorporate them in their Christian-related works? Was it by chance, inspiration or secret knowledge?

But, the detail that intrigued me the most was a detail in the Scriptures: the actual dinner event - which was the final initiatory act just before the crucifixion - took place in an upscale mansion, belonging to an unknown benefactor. The ownership of the house is unclear, while Acts suggests it could have been Mary the mother of John Mark of the later gospel fame, the synoptic Gospels (Mark 14:15; Luke 22:12) refer in a somewhat conspiratorial tone to ‘the Master of the house’, i.e. a male, and to the ‘the Upper Room’.
So, whose house was it anyway or what’s the deal with that house? (Which apparently still stands today just outside the Old City.)

It could have been one of Jesus' early adepts (adopters), a well-to-do gent. Some have suggested it was Nicodemus, who also provided for the proper burial after crucifixion and seemed to have been very much ‘in the know’ after the private conversation he had with Jesus one night (he’s revered in Christianity by the way just like Joseph of Arimathea, although he was a member of the Pharisee class and there’s little known about him after).
Or..., it could have been that the incipient religion with its Protagonist was being looked upon and cultivated from its early stages by an elite in the know, similarly to how angel VC investors nurture a startup before it goes into a funding series, because they see the potential for disruption or have a deeper insight about the future evolution, conditions and business prospects. Like the Magi who were able to trace down baby Jesus even before the aeon shift set in motion entered its final phase?
J.G. Bennett who was friends with Gurdjieff, has a chapter in Masters of Wisdom dedicated to Jesus and different schools of initiation and magi in the Eastern and Central Asia area perpetuating the wisdom tradition, who were kind of overseeing and keeping tabs on what’s going on and coming up in terms of times and their astrological cycles.

If that’s the case, perhaps we should take a step back and rethink: maybe we’ve spent too much time on gossip and drama rather than focusing on the underpinning reality and its objectives, and failed to connect the dots.

Your problem seems to be that you just don't get it that there was no "story of Jesus" prior to Mark, and that Mark derived everything from Paul and put it in story form as allegory. If you read the textual sources index and see the inspiration for every single pericope in Mark, you can finally get the fact that there was no Jesus of Nazareth to write about.

At that point, you have to give up Matthew, Luke and Acts as sources at all since the first two rely on Mark and Mark is clearly, unequivocally, derived from Paul and the OT, Homer, etc. Don't you get it? The stories are all made up! What you are trying to argue is the same as trying to argue where the stone was from which Arthur pulled the sword.

 

[moyal]

The question is, who was "Paul".
-> http://www.egodeath.com/edwinjohnsonpaulineepistles.htm

 

[Jones]

I share the same thinking. I started reading the book last week and I am on page 75. My point is that this book is so dense with a lot of information that sometimes I have to reread some sentences a few times in order to understand them completely.

For this book, one needs its complete intellectual apparatus to be engaged while reading.
I can't read this book at the same pace as I read novels. It is a totally different reading process.

I agree.

I was thinking the same thing. It’s not an ‘easy’ read and requires concentration and focus to get into the groove to comprehend and follow the lines of thought expressed. I wonder if he just skimmed through the book really quickly, all the while holding onto his sacred cows.

My usual approach to a new book is to skim read first before going back for a more thorough read. I couldn't do that with this one. All the threads being pulled on and 'we'll get back to that laters' kept me engaged even though I did have to re-read some passages and it was a real workout. At around pg 400 mark, I did skip forward to read the last chapter before going back. Any other paper book I would have been jotting notes, underlining and marking pages but I couldn't bring myself to do it in this book. I did start writing notes in a separate book, though they're very rough and I haven't distilled all my thoughts about it yet. I can say that some passages bought me to tears - something about the level of hope raised.

Here's kind of where I'm at with faith since reading it and it began when I read the phrase in the book 'close, but no cigar'. When I first read that my initial response was 'wow, after all the years and all the work!'

Ultimately I'm far from disappointed though because with further thought isn't that exactly what is needed for real faith? Not having every possible thread exactly nailed down, not having all the knowledge and all the understanding - having that point where the next step is a leap into the unknown because as far as the learning has gone so far there are still gaps where there is no proof - just choice and experience. The leap is taken because it's intrinsically motivated. If it weren't for that, wouldn't faith just be mechanical and without freewill? Something a robot could be programmed to do? And doesn't that give an example of why the revisions and redactions were probably necessary for the development of a real living faith with free will?

24th Feb 1996

Q: It tells us that he wants proof.

A: Third density "proof" does not apply, as we have explained again and again. Now, listen very carefully: if proof of that type were possible, what do you suppose would happen to free will, and thusly to learning, Karmic Directive Level One?

Q: (L) Well, I guess that if there is proof, you are believing in the proof and not the spirit of the thing. You are placing your reliance upon a material thing. You have lost your free will. Someone has violated your free will by the act of PROVING something to you.

A: If anyone CHOOSES to believe, that is their prerogative!

If your aim was the truth and nothing but the truth, I get that, and it’s a noble mission to embark on. I think that’s what you think I didn’t understand. I expressed my doubts about such an endeavor however, my view being that aiming for the “historical truth” challenging the generally-established narrative is probably not the most important thing to focus one's energies on.

I disagree.

Q: (L) So, does that mean that the whole thing is false?

A: "Passion" does not set one "free," quite the opposite!

Q: (L) But what if your passion is for knowledge?

A: That is not passion, it is soul questing.

Q: (L) What is it that gives some people this drive, this steamroller effect that they are determined to get to the absolute bottom of everything and strip away every lie until there is nothing left but the naked truth? What is the source of this desire?

A: Wrong concept. It is simply that one is at that point on the learning cycle. At that point, no drive is needed.

What could be more important?

 

[Nienna]

I wish I could read your book before its publication, and perhaps could make some suggestions. A good editor would have made some observations along the lines of my previous notes: “Look, the book is well researched and written, however, throwing baby Jesus with the bath water drastically reduces the area of exploration and you may be left with limited options… Are you sure you wanna take that route?” You could have included a preface note saying: “This is an attempt to revisit the Christ myth theory with a personal angle, I've been sitting on the idea for years, here's my take”.

I am so very glad that you weren't an editor; not that anything you would have said would have made it onto the page as your thoughts are completely opposite of what this book is about.

I’d say the definition of productivity mentions something about the quality of outputs. Given what you wrote it’s clear your technological adjustments didn’t do much to aid your understanding of the book. They hindered it to the point that your posts read like you never read the book - or like you have cognitive issues.

I think that what is going on here is that mbww regards a fairy tale as much more important and real than the truth; which is what this book is all about - finding the truth, or as close to it as possible.

 

[psychegram]

I think that what is going on here is that mbww regards a fairy tale as much more important and real than the truth

"Your contention that the historical basis of Rumpelstiltskin does not involve a magical dwarf is obviously absurd, since the story clearly specifies a magical dwarf. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here! And anyhow, why do we even care about what was historically 'true'? The Rumpelstiltskin story expresses important spiritual truths that supersede any doomed search for historical 'reality', as attested by generations of small children, all of whom believe in Rumpelstiltskin! Which obviously proves that Rumpelstiltskin existed as we've been told, and that he was indeed a magical dwarf."

 

[Laura]

The question is, who was "Paul".
-> http://www.egodeath.com/edwinjohnsonpaulineepistles.htm

I think my book pretty well establishes that Paul was not a literary creation. Read the book before you jump in here.

 

[SovereignDove]

I just finished reading FPTM today. It took me longer than I would have liked, but the time put in was well worth it to understanding the material. I thoroughly enjoyed the book, and got a history lesson along the way. It was great, a masterpiece, well thought out and well researched. I am really looking forward to the next book on Caesar, but from reading FPTM, the case for Caesar as Jesus is much clearer in understanding the how, when, where, and why. It does seem plausible. Only now do I feel that I can understand the association (although it has discussed here on the forum).

There many "aha" moments, and I found myself thinking about what I had read, when I wasn't reading. The 'gears were turning' in the mind. The thought provoking elements helped with the engagement of the reader to the history presented in the book, and that history was quite specific, and confusing at times with the names. The humorous comments were great along the way too. The beginning is quite dense, as others have stated, but I found it necessary to understand what was really going on in the times. Much of that history was new to me, so I had to take my time going through it. FPTM proves, to me at least, there wasn't any 'Jesus of Nazareth'. That is presented so well, that it becomes an undeniable fact by the end, or really even the middle of FPTM.

Thank you Laura, for writing so clearly and connecting so many threads, making sense of the time period and veiled meanings left to us in our time. The book is a great learning experience, and a real journey.

I have read 'Paul's Necessary Sin', which took me longer to read than FPTM. The references to Ashworth's book are handled wonderfully (if you haven't read this book, Laura explains it, and it isn't necessary to have read it beforehand to understand how it ties in). I really appreciated the additional history, which made 'Paul's Necessary Sin' clearer. It deepened the understanding to be found in both books.

I am inspired to read some of the referenced material, and books I haven't gotten to yet.

The explanation of Paul's cross was fascinating, with the different meanings presented as the book goes on, especially when it was tied into the funeral of Caesar. It all makes so much sense now!

 

[Joan]

I received the book today, a day earlier than expected. I loved the dedication at the beginning of the book. So now, I will be embarking on my journey to explore Laura's UFT. I suspect it will be a long journey, I am a slow reader. But along the way, I suspect many valuable insights will be revealed.

 

[Cordillera]

Thank you very much Laura for this extraordinary book. I do not know if I will be able to wait for the Spanish translation to be published or I will do my own translation with the online translators. I think it took me the same number of years it took you to write it. LOL

This whole story about Christianity reminded me of a story by Jesuit priest Anthony de Mello, which appears in his book The Prayer of The Frog:

After many years of labour an inventor discovered the art of making fire. He took his tools to the snow-clad northern regions and initiated a tribe into the art-and the advantages-of making fire. The people became so absorbed in this novelty that it did not occur to them to thank the inventor who one day quietly slipped away. Being one of those rare human beings endowed with greatness, he had no desire to be remembered or revered; all he sought was the satisfaction of knowing that someone had benefited from his discovery.

The next tribe he went to was just as eager to learn as the first. But the local priests, jealous of the stranger's hold on the people, had him assassinated. To allay any suspicion of the crime, they had a portrait of the Great Inventor enthroned upon the main altar of the temple; and a liturgy designed so that his name would be revered and his memory kept alive. The greatest care was taken that not a single rubric of the liturgy was altered or omitted. The tools for making (ire were enshrined within a casket and were said to bring healing to all who laid their hands on them with faith.

The High Priest himself undertook the task of compiling a Life of the Inventor. This became the Holy book in which his loving kindness was offered as an example for all to emulate, his glorious deeds were eulogized, his superhuman nature made an article of faith.

The priests saw to it that the Book was handed down to future generations, while they authoritatively interpreted the meaning of his words and the significance of his holy life and death. And they ruthlessly punished with death or excommunication anyone who deviated from their doctrine. Caught up as they were in these religious tasks, the people completely forgot the art of making fire.

En Español:

Tras muchos años de esfuerzos, un inventor descubrió el arte de hacer fuego. Tomó consigo sus instrumentos y se fue a las nevadas regiones del norte, donde inició a una tribu en el mencionado arte y en sus ventajas. La gente quedó tan encantada con semejante novedad que ni siquiera se le ocurrió dar las gracias al inventor, el cual desapareció de allí un buen día sin que nadie se percatara. Como era uno de esos pocos seres humanos dotados de grandeza de ánimo, no deseaba ser recordado ni que le rindieran honores; lo único que buscaba era la satisfacción de saber que alguien se había beneficiado de su descubrimiento.

La siguiente tribu a la que llegó se mostró tan deseosa de aprender como la primera. Pero sus sacerdotes, celosos de la influencia de aquel extraño, lo asesinaron y, para acallar cualquier sospecha, entronizaron un retrato del Gran Inventor en el altar mayor del templo, creando una liturgia para honrar su nombre y mantener viva su memoria y teniendo gran cuidado de que no se alterara ni se omitiera una sola rúbrica de la mencionada liturgia. Los instrumentos para hacer fuego fueron cuidadosamente guardados en un cofre, y se hizo correr el rumor de que curaban de sus dolencias a todo aquel que pusiera sus manos sobre ellos con fe.

El propio Sumo Sacerdote se encargó de escribir una Vida del Inventor, la cual se convirtió en el Libro Sagrado, que presentaba su amorosa bondad como un ejemplo a imitar por todos, encomiaba sus gloriosas obras y hacía de su naturaleza sobrehumana un artículo de fe.

Los sacerdotes se aseguraban de que el Libro fuera transmitido a las generaciones futuras, mientras ellos se reservaban el poder de interpretar el sentido de sus palabras y el significado de su sagrada vida y muerte, castigando inexorablemente con la muerte o la excomunión a cualquiera que se desviara de la doctrina por ellos establecida. Y la gente, atrapada de lleno en toda una red de deberes religiosos, olvidó por completo el arte de hacer fuego.

 

[Cleopatre VII]

When I finished my theology session, I immediately bought a kindle book. I started reading it right away.

At first, I was not convinced of the concept according to which the Apostle Paul was a mystic and seer, true bringer of the Gospel of Christ. However, I was very curious what would happen next. I was able to take over 1,300 notes while reading!

I really loved the methodology of your research. I noticed that you combine biblical and historical methods in a very interesting way. In addition, you ask very interesting questions and take into account important observations, which many people forget, e.g.

“If you believe in what you are studying, you've already lost any claim to scientific objectivity, so please don't pretend to it.”

Under that sentence, I only noted: "I fully agree with you". And with each new page, I understood you better and better. At one point I made a note of "Bruno Bauer" and a few pages later this figure appeared! This has happened many more times. You built up the tension, you made the reader sink into the right mood, specific questions to come to his mind. Then you answered them!

This made reading not reading but a sacred symphony of the spheres. Moreover, reading was also a dialogue with you. It wasn't just an association with the written word. You were present all the time. I felt so.

You pay close attention to what is often overlooked by many biblical scholars. You take into account possible changes to the manuscripts and all contingencies, even in those cases where others do not challenge the statements made. You question everything, and that is very right! You create your own interpretations, which you support with solid arguments. You do not ignore any of the ways, you look at each issue from all possible sides. I also consider your analyzes of the works of other theologians outstanding.

You have fought a war with fantasy, distortions, you are looking for the truth at any cost. Your look at Paul is also unique, you touched me very deeply. And you have uniquely highlighted the path of redemption found in Paul's correctly understood teachings. It was something special because it was no longer just science, history, but a deep mystical insight into the very depths.

And most importantly - you convinced me to many of your hypotheses, and you made me reach for other literature in the context of what you are discussing.

I would like to write even more and discuss individual threads for a long time, but I would have to write thousands of pages for that.

I will end with these words:

You are not an amateur, but an outstanding expert. You have become my favorite biblical scholar, the best I understand and the most reliable. You are not just an ordinary Florida girl dreaming of a better world. I can see a bottomless depth here. In you, Laura.

Did you do the job you wanted to do?

Yes, but you have done much more.

I thank you with all my heart.

 

[NewEngland Seeker]

If you’ve reached that level of consciousness and love and illumination without adhering to any belief system or syncing with of any Jesus or Christ or even having heard of - good for you. Although it’s also good to know that there is a direct line and “we are not alone” out there in the wide Universe, just in case.

I do not see how this has anything to do with Jesus. In the universe of EVERYTHING, no one is special. The knowledge, method and behavior that we all have to acquire to graduate to the next level has always been available to us. Therefore, even if Jesus existed he only would have been another example of the WAY. The concept that he changed the WAY and established a direct line is a stretch too far.

For me, there are only two choices of being: materialism or spiritualism. Either pursue ego goals, trophies, professional accomplishments, etc; or be soul focused and imbue all thoughts, word & deeds with the divine light. These choices has always been available to us.

I cannot see that there is any shortcut or different WAY with believing in Jesus. So why does his existence matter

I am only a little over have way through the book and I am impressed how Laura has overturned every stone on this subject. From what I gather from this forum is that she has shown that there are no definitive and multiple independent and objective sources that proves Jesus existed. For me it does not matter. However, there are many who need to know this fact in order to see the importance of there own soul and that the divine light is the real power, not Jesus.

 

[mbww]

I do not see how this has anything to do with Jesus. In the universe of EVERYTHING, no one is special. The knowledge, method and behavior that we all have to acquire to graduate to the next level has always been available to us. Therefore, even if Jesus existed he only would have been another example of the WAY. The concept that he changed the WAY and established a direct line is a stretch too far.

For me, there are only two choices of being: materialism or spiritualism. Either pursue ego goals, trophies, professional accomplishments, etc; or be soul focused and imbue all thoughts, word & deeds with the divine light. These choices has always been available to us.

I cannot see that there is any shortcut or different WAY with believing in Jesus. So why does his existence matter

I am only a little over have way through the book and I am impressed how Laura has overturned every stone on this subject. From what I gather from this forum is that she has shown that there are no definitive and multiple independent and objective sources that proves Jesus existed. For me it does not matter. However, there are many who need to know this fact in order to see the importance of there own soul and that the divine light is the real power, not Jesus.

I am glad that you have done your due diligence and are asking your own questions as everyone should, instead of just repeating stereotypes.

To answer your question in very simple terms, the idea is that Christ provides a fast track to accede to the next density level if you want, and the incarnation event as Jesus Christ was a perfect example to that effect.

A group of ants don’t wake up one morning and get together randomly and build a mound, they have the instinct encoded since birth. The God of ants had instilled that instinct in them. Ants don't evolve.

We humans as a species have like every species a certain built a runtime that we are born with and could run forever on like a cuckoo clock, but maybe we could use an upgrade. In order to get past that same old routines, in our spiritual evolution we are given a key, a shibboleth in order to upgrade ourselves and activate a higher conscience or reach the next level and eventually accede to the Throne of Creation (think breaking of the karmic cycle through love, acceptance, etc) think getting out of the loop. That key is provided by God himself, as the Logos of Creation or his Son in personification, manifested incarnation in Jesus Christ to lead by example and show us how it’s done and that... si se puede. We need to discover and resonate with that key in our own manifestation to open the gate of heavens, which makes the understanding and acceptance of the Jesus Christ drama the best course of action - a recognition of the effort if you want - and opportunity at the same time to learn, build on it and evolve on it with our creativity. Not necessarily through imitation Christi or devotion, there are multiple other ways of acceptance and response. Thus we become actors and co-creators on this plane of existence.
To me, the classic script as laid out by the Gospels and Christian tradition has proven a solid blueprint answering to the widest possible philosophical and psychological blocks. Alternatively, if you want to create your own adaptation or find a better way - feel free to do that, see how far you can get.