Life experiences represent interaction with "God"

[Archaea]

Perhaps we suffer because, even though it's unpleasant on the surface, on some level it feels good, or satisfies some emotional need. Seth says we create our own reality, and the reason for unpleasant circumstances in life or bad health is usually unresolved emotional issues, which can be buried deeply. So in order to end the suffering and create a reality we think we'd like better, we have to accept and deal with those issue. I think that ties in with the idea of suffering leading to working on ourselves.

'Life is religion. Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the world will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the 'past.' People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the 'Future.' -- Cassiopaeans, 09-28-02

In the last couple of months I've been spending some time every now and then trying to remember parts of my day. People say we can't see the future, only the past, but in my case I can only see parts of the past. Following a chain of events for any extended period of time (the word "time" here is supposed to be past tense) takes a lot of concentration, for me anyway. It's much easier to jump from one event to another, but then the time ordering gets all jumbled up and there are gaps.

My point is that, before I started doing this sometimes I thought there wasn't much going on in my life. But now I realize that there are events going on constantly, things are always happening. My understanding from what the C's said above, is that the events experienced do have a meaning or a purpose regardless of how the experiencer (the word "experiencer" here is supposed to be an actual word) judges their experience. Those who judge their experience to be beneath them, for example, will find that 'the world will cease' for them.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Joe]Probably most people, with the idea of a benevolent deity, would think that if you have a good interaction with "god" you wouldn't suffer that much![/quote]

I would say that a significant amount of religious folks (New age included) are asleep in their interaction with God/Creation.

God/Creation isn’t meant to serve you and ease your suffering. Empathy tells that you should serve/help others.

If injustice happens you are meant to take responsibility. Instead they proclaim it’s the will of God.

It’s the same with the state of the world. Instead of taking responsibility they just await their savior to fix it for them.


Some of those types even enthusiastic welcome the end times. Somehow, they believe rapture awaits them and they will be awarded for being the biggest fan of God.

 

[edgitarra]

Those familiar with the Cs sessions will probably have recongized that title. It comes from this comment:

'Life is religion. Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the world will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the 'past.' People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the 'Future.' -- Cassiopaeans, 09-28-02

I've read it many times, and seen it quoted even more. But today was the first time I really thought about that second sentence:

"Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God."

It made me wonder what a life with a good amount of suffering (of the unconscious and conscious variety) represents in terms of interaction with "God". Does it mean that the person is willing to suffer to know "god" aka objective reality/the totality of all that exists? Probably most people, with the idea of a benevolent deity, would think that if you have a good interaction with "god" you wouldn't suffer that much!

Well said. If you think of all that exists as the eternal contrast(positive/negative), then the concept of "suffering" can be even excluded. Suffering is merely a definition of a person being able to handle and to accept the presence of this "Contrast". I would call it The Great Contrast that Enables all Life :) There is a saying in romania that "Black is written on White", or "Black can be seen on White", "It is bad with evil, but worse without it" - like a need of evil's presence in the world to filter it. Goodness is known by knowing what is Evil. In Orthodox religion it is very important to thank God while praying for one's existence, and that made Ed think, should there be an appreciation of Negativity? Or some sort of thankfulness, because it has its own presence, and manifestation in order to separate and define what is Positive? Or is only the viceversa?

 

[Shared Joy]

from Session 12 August 1995:

A: Especially when the mind says there is. Remember, most all power necessary for altering reality and physicality is contained within the belief center of the mind. This is something you will understand more closely when you reach 4th density reality where physicality is no longer a prison, but is instead, your home, for you to alter as you please. In your current state, you have the misinterpretation of believing that reality is finite and therein lies your difficulty with finite physical existence. We are surprised that you are still not able to completely grasp this concept.

.........

A: All difficulties in personal life are karmic in one way or another. Especially those involving interactions with other souled beings. And the closer the interactions, the more karmic they are. This you already know.

Q: (L) Well, the difficult thing is to know what is the best thing to do.

A: Learning images is the process that is ongoing throughout all existence, and is achieved by one action or another. Any and all actions, any and all possible actions, any and all directions of actions facilitate continued learning. Therefore, it is not possible in the ultimate sense, to make mistakes. But, one must experience whatever is karmic to its full extent. The choices made reflect choices made prior to entering the physical plane of third density, combined with the opportunities that present themselves with the variability of reality in its fluid state. Therefore, the decisions to be made will present themselves when they are to be made, and it is only one's ability to accept interpretation objectively that determines whether the learning process will deliver greater or lesser degrees of pain.

Q: (L) Why does learning have to be painful?

A: It doesn't.

Q: (L) Well, it seems that it invariably is for me.

A: That is according to the perceptions of the experience, not according to any absolute criteria.

Well,when one has the opportunity to make choices according to previous agreements, but also can use the variability of reality in its fluid state. Tall order, I think.

Learning can be painful or not according to the awareness of a person.

Wallowing in routine thinking-feeling-acting can be painful until the lesson is learned and different choices are mad,e as one has different beliefs now - may I say certainties? These would alter the reality one is perceiving, transforming it into an alternate reality.

Just think back - I am sure almost all of us, at least once, had gone through something similar. In my experience almost always was preceded by some hardship, dire situation, etc. I think that was necessary to interrupt my stubbornness or lack of situational awareness, whatever.

And for a certain period I was able to learn joyously. Then again I plunged back in a frame of thinking/ perceiving that brought back pain and hardship.

I think is also a matter of personal energy to sustain these states of relaxed alertness-awareness.

FWIW

 

[munaychasumaq]

Those familiar with the Cs sessions will probably have recongized that title. It comes from this comment:

'Life is religion. Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the world will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the 'past.' People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the 'Future.' -- Cassiopaeans, 09-28-02

I've read it many times, and seen it quoted even more. But today was the first time I really thought about that second sentence:

"Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God."

It made me wonder what a life with a good amount of suffering (of the unconscious and conscious variety) represents in terms of interaction with "God". Does it mean that the person is willing to suffer to know "god" aka objective reality/the totality of all that exists? Probably most people, with the idea of a benevolent deity, would think that if you have a good interaction with "god" you wouldn't suffer that much!

God has many "Faces" and each of us decide with face follow...If we are in the middle of the objective road,so we know which face we must follow,at least we can have an idea and we are going to have the "cotton test" in our dairy interactions.Others chose to follow aka face which is the correct one for them.Suffer and make suffering others is part of this face and part of the game...Free Will...It is up to us decide which Face we will follow. :)

 

[Sol Logos]

An apt point came up, I cant remember exactly where it was in the recent radio show (objective reality in a subjective world). It was about how our relationship with reality is subject to suffering when we're out of aligniment with the truth. One example was a false belief on diet eventually leads to physical illness. Could it be the same with feelings we have about ourselves from early trauma (e.g. I am defective) being out-of-step with who we really are is the reason for emotional suffering that goes along with it?

If so, it suggests to me there's an intrinsic purpose in creation to bring us to truth both externally and internally. If this is a purpose of creation then we have a reliable barometer for when we're out-of-step with truth - pain.

Even though it's reliable it does seem indirect. I know as a dad I'd like to tell my daughter about dangers to avoid. I know there's merit to her figuring things out for herself, but if that was the only way she could learn, then there'd be no point me even being around. Clearly its not the only way we can learn so there is a point.

So I wonder if coming to truth is an intrinsic purpose guiding creation and we can also innately learn by direct guidance, would that direct guidance to truth be what people for thousands of years considered the personality of God accessed via prayer?

 

[SeekinTruth]

So many good points made. Hard to add much. I also think there's an inherent problem for us (at least for me, definitely) in that we don't/can't fully comprehend Truth - only partially grasp it most of the time. And that's just Truths we can conceive (and test, etc.). I don't seem to have the Being to really get a full grasp of Universal Truths in the way that would really lead to freedom from illusions and suffering (our imprisonment as a whole). Not sure if I made myself clear.

 

[Konstantin]

The Cs have also said something like that we, humans are primary creators.
So here is one thought that come to my mind while reading this thread.
Knowing yourself is knowing the god. And "How one interacts with God" is how one interacts with himself and those around him . Suffering comes when a person starts to know, to explore himself, to dig through his personality, his mask, to finally see his essence. Its a way with a lot of suffering, and pain. And only then man can interact with himself, with his essence, and then he can interact with god. And now after a lot of suffering and work to find and know his essence , he know himself and can finally interact with god without suffering. The suffering is while he learns about himself, while he is working on himself,while he is awaking and seeing the objective reality as it is, with all bad and good sides. Then when he is a ream human, a really awakened man , his interaction with god dont have to contain suffering anymore, because he now accepts what comes, because he knows that all that negative and positive faces are the faces of god.

 

[PhoenixToEmber]

...should there be an appreciation of Negativity? Or some sort of thankfulness, because it has its own presence, and manifestation in order to separate and define what is Positive? Or is only the viceversa?

"Be grateful even for hardship, setbacks, and bad people. Dealing with such obstacles is an essential part of training in the Art of Peace."
~Morihei Ueshiba, The Art of Peace, translated by John Stevens

 

[luc]

So many good points made. Hard to add much. I also think there's an inherent problem for us (at least for me, definitely) in that we don't/can't fully comprehend Truth - only partially grasp it most of the time. And that's just Truths we can conceive (and test, etc.). I don't seem to have the Being to really get a full grasp of Universal Truths in the way that would really lead to freedom from illusions and suffering (our imprisonment as a whole). Not sure if I made myself clear.

I think you did, and I feel the same way. This leads to the thought: if it's true that "he who learns must suffer", which I think it is, then the suffering doesn't stop as long as we are learning? Maybe we can "overcome" specific forms of suffering by learning our lessons, but I guess we are then presented with new/different forms of suffering.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I remember something about the C's talking about our lessons once (if) we reach 4D, and that they entail helping each other with the suffering that comes with the transition, not sure. So maybe even in 4D STO, there's suffering.

Have the C's ever been asked if their learning still entails "suffering"? I guess if so, then their suffering would be very different from our suffering here in 3D STS land. Speculating further - maybe suffering only ends once we reach the "union with the one", i.e. 7D? But of course, I guess we can't know much about these higher planes from our limited perspective. Just some thoughts...

 

[SeekinTruth]

So many good points made. Hard to add much. I also think there's an inherent problem for us (at least for me, definitely) in that we don't/can't fully comprehend Truth - only partially grasp it most of the time. And that's just Truths we can conceive (and test, etc.). I don't seem to have the Being to really get a full grasp of Universal Truths in the way that would really lead to freedom from illusions and suffering (our imprisonment as a whole). Not sure if I made myself clear.

I think you did, and I feel the same way. This leads to the thought: if it's true that "he who learns must suffer", which I think it is, then the suffering doesn't stop as long as we are learning? Maybe we can "overcome" specific forms of suffering by learning our lessons, but I guess we are then presented with new/different forms of suffering.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I remember something about the C's talking about our lessons once (if) we reach 4D, and that they entail helping each other with the suffering that comes with the transition, not sure. So maybe even in 4D STO, there's suffering.

Have the C's ever been asked if their learning still entails "suffering"? I guess if so, then their suffering would be very different from our suffering here in 3D STS land. Speculating further - maybe suffering only ends once we reach the "union with the one", i.e. 7D? But of course, I guess we can't know much about these higher planes from our limited perspective. Just some thoughts...

Yeah, good questions, luc. I think the C's have alluded that they "enjoy" all interactions and giving to all who ask (that which doesn't interfere with free will and lesson profile, karmic "debt", etc.) They seem to indicate a certain kind of boundless joy or something in the processes of "World Creation and World Maintenance". But they've also mentioned that there is certainly 6D STS thought forms for balance, not actual separate entities within the "social memory complex" of 6th Density (as Ra put it). So there's definitely also "negative" aspects still necessary "up there".

For me, 6D, 7D, and even 4D is too far away for now to really think about. It's just good for expanding the kinds of ideas we can explore and conceive. But the everyday problems of increasing knowledge and Being as to reach greater understanding demands so much time that I try not to put too much time in that kind of speculations whenever I can avoid getting too wrapped up in such (as I've done in the past). FWIW.

 

[Kisito]

Personally suffering is proportional to our ego. The fact persist in a way of "self-esteem" or our personal recovery, increases our suffering. Seek pleasure brings us into dependence and addiction. The addiction leads to suffering. Why are we trying to get from point A to point B? If the answer is the challenge, this is our ego, so the road is strewn with pain and pleasure. Our propensity to pleasure is proportional to our suffering. The experience is a reflection of our ego. Our mind, our will has the ability to reduce our ego. The reduction of our ego, ie the mastery of our emotions, makes us more sensitive to the interconnection with "God." We suffer or we take "pleasure" of what we do not understand. That is our ego and our beliefs are responsible for our feelings. The "let go" means that we let go of our beliefs and our ego, and finally we listen to "God." Thus, the more we can listen to God, the more we diminish our suffering, and "more" we listen to our ego and our beliefs, the more we suffer. I think this is what meant the C's.

 

[luke wilson]

The local museum in my city had an exhibition on death... On going, I came across a Latin term, 'memento mori'... The English translation being, 'remember that you must die'.

It's amazing how we live the majority of our lives thinking we are immortal. We probably also die thinking we are immortal... I think life experiences would be different if we simply remembered or better yet, lived with the understanding that we must die.

 

[happyliza]

Thank you Joe for introducing this thread. This important phrase has always stuck with me as one of the most profound things the C's have said - for me anyway. Especially as the 'billboard' for me shows repeated 'suffering'. But also far more besides in such an inspirational paragraph.

I have really appreciated all the recent topics you have introduced during these 'dark' and important self-learning times.

The same gratitude goes for Sott. As many recent articles have proven timely and helpful on all things concerning our 'spirit/essence'. The development of which is all that matters really.

So many many thanks to everyone here for the profound and deeply considered replies. They are absolutely invaluable.

With the intense study of these recent articles, last night they all seemed to coincide in my brain after POTS. I was left with such a feeling of relief and gratitude. For some reason the Sott article below appeared at the apex of everything:

http://www.sott.net/article/312250-Seeing-adversity-as-a-chance-to-learn-and-grow-helps-us-foster-resilience

Aka our 'perception' of everything is key. (Obviously in objective truth). How we 'see'(react) as peeps have said above, is at the root of most of our suffering, until we learn the lesson. I don't wish to confuse this with conscious suffering of Gurdjieff involving super human efforts of Will.

Now IRONICALLY to underscore what was an important 'eureka' for me. Today I lost/misplaced my one pair of prescription sun glasses. (Symbolic). Can not find them anywhere (though I did get an image that they may be behind a cushion on my sofa, though I have not been home yet).

BUT the crux here is WHAT WAS I NOT SEEING? It had to include 'how' I was 'seeing' and my perception/choice of 'reaction/lesson'. Thus to suffer OR to be grateful for the 'adversity' (situation).

Hope this is is easy to understand. The above concerns a new twist in an old situation I have currently been dealing with (by choice, alone - doing my best to incorporate all advice I have received here to date). What ever the 'outcome' I will later post/share about it, with the intention of not being 'attached' to the outcome but purely to the lesson. That will be a first for me! :)

 

[T.C.]

I think using an analogy to reword the statement might help to bring it into a more 3D human frame of reference (and I hope I'm not putting wrong words into the C's mouth here!)

We could state, "One's experience of school (life) reflects one's interaction with good teachers (God)".

We may go to a really 'good' school (have a really easy life) but we're only going to get out what we put in. If we don't recognise the value in the opportunity to learn what the teachers know we need to study to prepare us for the future, then we could become resistant to the teacher, not respecting them as someone who really knows the subjects and we won't like having lessons with them.

This will then colour ones view of the school environment itself due to the negative emotional filters that we see the whole experience through. We'll begin to hate having to go every day, we'll hate being in the building, we'll start to rebel against the authority of those who just want to help us grow by imparting knowledge to us. Learning from a teacher is a two way street and if you don't have the right attitude, you won't get anywhere.

On the flip side, you might have to go to a bad school - like, it's in a deprived and rough area - but still with good teachers. The building may be run down and falling apart and you may not have access to any good quality facilities (have a really tough life - living in a famine or war-zone) but if you have the right attitude, put as much in as you can, value the knowledge and experience of the teachers, then you might wake up every school day just bursting to get there and start learning. With this positive attitude, one of valuing the learning opportunities, the emotions associated with the experience will be positive and so the filters you see the school through will make it look like a really nice place to be.

So the interaction with the teachers (God) is reflected through one's experience of the school (life). Not valuing the teachers and not interacting with them makes the school seem unbearable - while valuing the teachers and interacting with them makes the school feel like somewhere we want to be every day.

Hope that makes sense.