"Life Without Bread"

Nienna

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Trevrizent said:
Nienna Eluch said:
Yep! Me too. I am an A+ and at the moment, I'm on an almost entirely meat diet.

I also found out that I cannot eat pork. The last three weeks or so my back was killing me, that's the same time I started eating more pork. Once I quit the pork, the inflammation subsided. :cry: I really love pork.

Is that all pork?

For me, yes, and I am only speaking about myself here.
 

Psalehesost

The Living Force
RedFox said:
Laura said:
You may definitely want to read "Life Without Bread" where the issue of underweight people on a low carb diet is addressed in some detail.
Will do, just put it on order.
I did likewise.

RedFox said:
Psalehesost said:
When eating few carbs for long, I found my weight indeed goes down and stays down, and I'm already (chronically) somewhat underweight. Many months I've had little in the way of veggies except buckwheat, potatoes, quinoa, and most of the time no fruit at all (sometimes small amounts). I usually go by a kind of feel, trying to go past and ignore the inner noise of cravings that may appear, and sense without desire what the body 'wants', what would suit it at that moment. Recently this spring, this has led to suddenly upping the amount of both complex and simple carbs in having both more fruit and more buckwheat, and feeling quite well - weight back to a more 'normal' (for me) 50kg also.

You might want to make sure you're liver is working well (milk thistle/dandelion root etc), take ox bile to help the digestion of fat/protien, and look up l-carnatine (for cellular fat metabolism - along with Coq10 and d-ribose in low doses....google chronic fatigue).
My body reacts in the same way as yours, but I've had to cut the carbs (especially the simple ones) out due to them causing some real problems with fatigue.....which led me to explore the HPA axis (I seem to have adrenal fatigue) and chronic fatigue/metabolic cellular imbalances.....both with some quite positive effects on energy and weight it seems.
fwiw taking magnesium (orally or as transdermal oil) would cause cramps after a few days....until I started taking a multi mineral (seems the cramps may be from lack of calcium), and the coq10/l-carnitine/d-ribose. One interesting side effect is my body seems to be detoxing like crazy now....

A difference I guess would be that fatigue is not constant for me but comes and goes, nowadays sometimes there for an hour or two solid a day as well as in much shorter periods that quickly come and go. The simple carbs also didn't worsen it, and those days having some fruit and fruit juice along with a lot of buckwheat I consistently had a little bit more energy than usual (and no long lacks of energy), and feel relatively well afterwards now too (cutting back again for now - the guidance by "feel" agrees with this, too) with a little bit less energy (though have also begun another cycle of heavy metal detox).

For me, magnesium supplements when I had them had no noticeable effect at all. The same goes for all manner of supplements tried. The heavy metal detox stuff is the only thing (apart from things that contained things my body reacted to) that has any noticeable effect of any supplements tried thus far.

Will have to look more into things mentioned that may make a difference. Also read the book when it arrives.

Laura said:
Our shortbread cookies are made from pure buckwheat flour with xylitol. Buckwheat is very high in protein and xylitol has an extremely low glycemic load.

Still, quantity of buckwheat in total would have to be quite limited (?) - about 100 grams of buckwheat flour alone will almost fully fill the daily maximum of carbs, if I've got things right.
 

Yas

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I really must go through that book "Life without bread"!!! :lol:

I have been a vegetarian since I was born... Some meat here and there over the years. Now, I find it really hard to digest meat, especially red meat. I thought it could be because my blod type is A. But maybe it is just because I'm not used to it. Now I eat chicken and duck 2-3 times a week and some fish as well, but it is still kind of hard to take it. :nuts:

:bye:
 

Mrs. Peel

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Endymion said:
I'm the same as you, Mrs Peel (according to D'Adamo), and before we started down the road of low carbs and more meat in the diet, I was basically a low fat vegetarian with bits of chicken and fish added. Now I have meat three times a day, lots and lots of good animal fats, and I've reduced my carbs drastically. I'm not down to 72 grams daily yet, but as someone mentioned recently, it's best to proceed slowly so the body can adjust. Anyway, I just feel so much better on this diet that it makes me wonder what exactly D'Adamo was on about! The more that I eat meat, the more I want to eat it, and I've been eating more real red meat in addition to bacon and pork mince - lamb is delicious!

Well, I'm still in the adjustment stage. I'd quit eating red meat for a long time, as meat makes me sluggish and tired. I can tolerate a little bit of bacon in the morning with my gluten-free pancake(s), but three times a day just makes me feel blah. I've been taking digestive enzymes with each meal, and ox bile when I do eat meat, plus lots of milk thistle in an attempt to kick start my liver. :lol:

How does one measure out grams of carbs as they go through the day anyhow? Carry around a little food scale?? :P
 

Ollie

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Mrs. Peel said:
Endymion said:
I'm the same as you, Mrs Peel (according to D'Adamo), and before we started down the road of low carbs and more meat in the diet, I was basically a low fat vegetarian with bits of chicken and fish added. Now I have meat three times a day, lots and lots of good animal fats, and I've reduced my carbs drastically. I'm not down to 72 grams daily yet, but as someone mentioned recently, it's best to proceed slowly so the body can adjust. Anyway, I just feel so much better on this diet that it makes me wonder what exactly D'Adamo was on about! The more that I eat meat, the more I want to eat it, and I've been eating more real red meat in addition to bacon and pork mince - lamb is delicious!

Well, I'm still in the adjustment stage. I'd quit eating red meat for a long time, as meat makes me sluggish and tired. I can tolerate a little bit of bacon in the morning with my gluten-free pancake(s), but three times a day just makes me feel blah. I've been taking digestive enzymes with each meal, and ox bile when I do eat meat, plus lots of milk thistle in an attempt to kick start my liver. :lol:

How does one measure out grams of carbs as they go through the day anyhow? Carry around a little food scale?? :P

You may like to add HCL (hydrochloric acid) supplements when eating meat too, as blood type As need the acid to digest protein.

In terms of determining grams of carbs in a food type you may find this site helpful - http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

This may help or not.
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Mrs. Peel said:
How does one measure out grams of carbs as they go through the day anyhow? Carry around a little food scale?? :P
the only concentrated carbs I am taking is muscovado sugar in my tea since my body doesn't like xylitol very much, supposedly there is 4.2 grams per one teaspoon of sugar and 3.8 grams of carbs in one teaspoon, as for the carbs in food it gets complicated -I always hated the idea of obsessively monitoring everything I eat, but perhaps it is time to start doing so

here are some guidelines
1/4 cup of buckwheat flour 20gr of carbs
1 cup of wild rice 35 gr
between 25-30g (depending on the sort) of carbs per one apple ( 4 in kilo)
1 cup cantaloupe 15gr
1 medium peer 27gr
1 large peach 17gr
1 medium banana (118gr) 27gr
1 medium potato has 35gr of carbohydrates
1 half cup of :
almonds 9gr
cashews 22 gr
Brazil nuts 9 gr
walnuts 8 gr carbs etc.
 
G

Gertrudes

Guest
Mrs. Peel said:
How does one measure out grams of carbs as they go through the day anyhow? Carry around a little food scale?? :P

Besides what Trevrizent has mentioned, there is also a useful program that can be downloaded here: _http://download.cnet.com/Nutrition-Facts/3000-2129_4-10773427.html?tag=mncol

It's called nutrition facts and it's very simple and easy to use.
 

Gimpy

The Living Force
Laura said:
Legolas said:
Can there be said what is recommended cause of GI testing, which would be tolerable regarding fruit? Or just plain and simple no fruit at all?

_http://www.glycemicindex.com/

This site provides a search function (name and as well GI result can be searched for), where you can find out the GI level of food and comparing xylitol with other stuff and xylitol seems unbeatable (xylitol has a rate 7, compared to an apple with 35).

Not to mention D-ribose which has a negative gylcemic index!

I strongly urge everyone to read "Life Without Bread" to answer some of these questions. It's not a good idea to go whole hog on the low carb diet all at once. The body needs time to adjust. And it may not even be a good idea for some people at all - their conditions may be too far advanced. But for most people and even most conditions, they only get better on the low carb plan and that means less than 72 grams of carbs per day.


I'm one of those people who can't tolerate xylitol well. I've found a few sources for d-ribose, but so far they are too expensive to get in bulk. Cooking with coconut oil is helping my skin loads, though I don't understand why I can't use it directly on my skin at all. (Maybe it has to be metabolized?) I use stevia the most for a sweetner, and do put organic sugar with it in some desserts. (Using stevia cuts the amount of sugar down from a cup and a half to one half cup in recipes.)

As someone with a still sluggish liver after a year of treating it, I'd encourage others here to go slow in reducing your carbs...to go too fast will lead to depleting diarrhea. It has been my experience, and I don't wish that on anyone! :( Take your time, even when you think you don't have time to spare...your bowels will thank you. :D

I've ordered the book (Life without bread) and I'm going to have Hubby read it too. He's been complaining to me that he's too fat, and I've been encouraging him to do research and find facts before 'dieting'. (No, he's not on the diet with me, though he does eat what I cook for him. He's still got bad eating habits.)

Cooking has become a real pleasure for us, and Hubby and I love to cook for people. Sharing recipes and gluten free foods with others that taste great goes a long way to show folks that the diet isn't one of deprivation.
 

Laurentien2

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Gertrudes said:
Mrs. Peel said:
How does one measure out grams of carbs as they go through the day anyhow? Carry around a little food scale?? :P

Besides what Trevrizent has mentioned, there is also a useful program that can be downloaded here: _http://download.cnet.com/Nutrition-Facts/3000-2129_4-10773427.html?tag=mncol

It's called nutrition facts and it's very simple and easy to use.

Thanks Gertrude for the link, it is easy to use, I was thinking of an easy way to measure the carbs in meals. You just gave me the right tool. :flowers:
 

Nienna

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Acid Yazz said:
I really must go through that book "Life without bread"!!! :lol:

I have been a vegetarian since I was born... Some meat here and there over the years. Now, I find it really hard to digest meat, especially red meat. I thought it could be because my blod type is A. But maybe it is just because I'm not used to it. Now I eat chicken and duck 2-3 times a week and some fish as well, but it is still kind of hard to take it. :nuts:

:bye:

It sounds as though you have a sluggish liver. Getting it working again will really help in the digestion of meats.

I, too, am a type A and following Dr. Psyche's post on how she is treating here sluggish liver has helped me tremendously. I can even eat red meat now with no problems. :)

The only difference I have made is to take HCL (hydrochloric acid) instead of the ox bile. Being a type A, I am low in hydrochloric acid. You should do whatever works best for you, though.
 

mada85

The Living Force
Gertrudes said:
Mrs. Peel said:
How does one measure out grams of carbs as they go through the day anyhow? Carry around a little food scale?? :P

Besides what Trevrizent has mentioned, there is also a useful program that can be downloaded here: _http://download.cnet.com/Nutrition-Facts/3000-2129_4-10773427.html?tag=mncol

It's called nutrition facts and it's very simple and easy to use.

Thanks for the link, Gertrudes. I was just wondering today what 72g of carbs actually looks like, especially in terms of buckwheat. The program tells me that buckwheat groats are just under 75% carbs. So I'm closer to 72g per day than I thought :)
 
I think it's important to add that the research of Wolfgang Lutz ("Life Without Bread") was done, before we knew anything about the glycemic load (GL) and the glycemic index (GI). He created all carbohydrates equally, but today it is obvious that it is a difference if you eat 72g of pure sugar or a few hundred grams of for example sweet potatoes or buckwheat. But after reading about his successful treatments it's good to orientate on the amount of 72g anyway.

Lutz noticed that 72 g of carbohydrates is the amount which your other organs besides the brain need and process during 24 hours completely, so it can't affect insulin or blood sugar level. (I don't have the book at hand, I think this was the basic point)

The thing is to reach the state of ketosis, where your brain changes from the use of sugar (all carbohydrates) for energy to the use of ketone bodies. The difference is that the liver stops the processing on the level of ketones, instead converting it into sugar, because when you have a low intake of carbohydrates you aren't able to live on sugar (gucosis) anymore. So that you don't starve to death, the body begins to convert fatty acids into energy.

This is a really interesting topic. There is evidence that migraine or other neurologic brain disorders (and every insulin related disease like diabetes, arteriosklerosis, heart attacks, obesity, etc. anyway) can be healed with ketosis because these disorders are related to problems with energy-crisis due to the high sugar intake and insulin and blood sugar variations. The body just needs to much glucosis too fast.

Using sugar for energy means after a few hours of burning glucosis you need more of it, because it is consumed very fast. This is most of all the case with high-glycemic foods that make blood sugar level (and insulin) rise and fall in astronomic areas. Switching to ketosis means you can use the ketone bodys for hours or even days without having to eat because it is a slow metabolism. This is the reason you eat less on a low-carb diet. Without the variations in the insulin or blood sugar level you have a constant supply of energy.

The way to get there is to eat enough proteins and fat and almost no carbs, especially no carbs with a high glycemic load. The high fat amount is necessary because otherwise the body uses it's own fat savings and you get protein toxicity.

It is important to adjust and not to switch cold-turkey because during the days before ketosis your body is starving. In this phase of transition your body hasn't enough glucosis to live on but still isn't able to produce keton bodys. This phase can be accompanied with energy-crisis like migraines if one doesn't adjust properly.

Like Laura said, Lutz had a lot experience on that and he also noticed that for really ill men over 50 and woman over 45 (or something like that) it is impossible sometimes to switch to low-carb at all due to the fact that the body is adjusted to the bad lifestyle and cannot change anymore without serious problems.
 

tykes

Jedi Master
Stranger said:
I think it's important to add that the research of Wolfgang Lutz ("Life Without Bread") was done, before we knew anything about the glycemic load (GL) and the glycemic index (GI). He created all carbohydrates equally, but today it is obvious that it is a difference if you eat 72g of pure sugar or a few hundred grams of for example sweet potatoes or buckwheat. But after reading about his successful treatments it's good to orientate on the amount of 72g anyway.

Lutz noticed that 72 g of carbohydrates is the amount which your other organs besides the brain need and process during 24 hours completely, so it can't affect insulin or blood sugar level. (I don't have the book at hand, I think this was the basic point)

The thing is to reach the state of ketosis, where your brain changes from the use of sugar (all carbohydrates) for energy to the use of ketone bodies. The difference is that the liver stops the processing on the level of ketones, instead converting it into sugar, because when you have a low intake of carbohydrates you aren't able to live on sugar (gucosis) anymore. So that you don't starve to death, the body begins to convert fatty acids into energy.

This is a really interesting topic. There is evidence that migraine or other neurologic brain disorders (and every insulin related disease like diabetes, arteriosklerosis, heart attacks, obesity, etc. anyway) can be healed with ketosis because these disorders are related to problems with energy-crisis due to the high sugar intake and insulin and blood sugar variations. The body just needs to much glucosis too fast.

Using sugar for energy means after a few hours of burning glucosis you need more of it, because it is consumed very fast. This is most of all the case with high-glycemic foods that make blood sugar level (and insulin) rise and fall in astronomic areas. Switching to ketosis means you can use the ketone bodys for hours or even days without having to eat because it is a slow metabolism. This is the reason you eat less on a low-carb diet. Without the variations in the insulin or blood sugar level you have a constant supply of energy.

The way to get there is to eat enough proteins and fat and almost no carbs, especially no carbs with a high glycemic load. The high fat amount is necessary because otherwise the body uses it's own fat savings and you get protein toxicity.

It is important to adjust and not to switch cold-turkey because during the days before ketosis your body is starving. In this phase of transition your body hasn't enough glucosis to live on but still isn't able to produce keton bodys. This phase can be accompanied with energy-crisis like migraines if one doesn't adjust properly.

Like Laura said, Lutz had a lot experience on that and he also noticed that for really ill men over 50 and woman over 45 (or something like that) it is impossible sometimes to switch to low-carb at all due to the fact that the body is adjusted to the bad lifestyle and cannot change anymore without serious problems.

Thanks for the review Stranger, it urges to read this essential information.
 

Gawan

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Stranger said:
I think it's important to add that the research of Wolfgang Lutz ("Life Without Bread") was done, before we knew anything about the glycemic load (GL) and the glycemic index (GI). He created all carbohydrates equally, but today it is obvious that it is a difference if you eat 72g of pure sugar or a few hundred grams of for example sweet potatoes or buckwheat. But after reading about his successful treatments it's good to orientate on the amount of 72g anyway.

[...]

Thanks for that stranger!

Maybe it would be great that this book has a topic of its own?

As I searched for the book, I saw that it was published already in 1972 or 4, which was really a surprise for me. And as always the German book is much more expensive than the English one, so I went for the English book.

And considering, that an apple (100gr has about 10-12gr. carbohydrates) I could eat about 6 apples a day. :P
 
Yeah, it's a great idea to open a new topic. Maybe we should chose a title which discusses low-carb and ketosis in general.

Legolas said:
As I searched for the book, I saw that it was published already in 1972 or 4, which was really a surprise for me. And as always the German book is much more expensive than the English one, so I went for the English book.

Yeah he was the first one who published scientific results combined with a really good theory and patients experience about the low-carb topic to the public. One could say he was the real "Inventor". His work is still underestimated.

As a German I came across this book a few month ago while searching for palolithic diets because it is one of 3 or 4 books about this topics in german language. Here in Germany he is really popular among scientists and doctors, but they fear him. They won't tell patients about this topic until they bring it up by their own. It is reported that if a patient urgently and repeatly asks an internist about diet changes they suddenly "know" and recommend "Dr. Lutz".

Legolas said:
And considering, that an apple (100gr has about 10-12gr. carbohydrates) I could eat about 6 apples a day. :P

Enjoy them. ;) Anyway it is useful to split those carb-meals up because otherwise the body gets to much at a time. (I assume)

In the german book you can find lists of almost all foods and how much carbohydrates it contains. I wonder if it is the same in the english one?

Some tipps for the adjusting phase: Eat both breakfast and dinner no-carb so you are in ketosis from evening to morning, since at night most "normal" people are in ketosis, too. As Lutz points out, they loose more than 400 grams precious tissue (!) every night because the body is depleted of glucosis (can't store it) and has to use it's own tissue to survive. Crazy thing! He said this is the reason for bad tissue quality (connective tissue weakness), because every day it has to be build up again. Someday the body gets a little bit tired of it. :D
 
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