"Life Without Bread"

Incognito said:
[quote author=RedFox ]

Try different fats too, as some really don't agree with me (ghee for example - but I think its just the way the brand I use is processed, its not organic).
The need for electrolytes/water after diarrhea is really important.

You may be aware, but ghee is really easy to make yourself. I use an organic store brand of butter. The video below is a pretty good one, easy to follow. If you decide to make some, keep a close eye the first couple of times because the thickness of the pan makes a considerable difference on cooking time. (I've burnt a couple of batches using a lighter sauce pan) :zzz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkZgIN4cZYc&feature=related
[/quote]

I am just curious: Is there a difference in the quality of the end product if the butter used to make ghee is pasteurized?
 

Gawan

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Gertrudes said:
I had a period with legs cramps as well dugdeep, and it just went away, I supposed as I got adapted to the diet. That (leg cramps), was totally new for me as I had only experienced it once in my left calf in my entire life!
Besides supplementing with L-carnitine as suggested, you mentioned in your post that you are taking lots of magnesium. Well, in that crampy phase of mine, I had to stop magnesium as it was making it worse. This idea came after reading a few reports here and there from other members who were suffering from cramps if taking too much magnesium. Having stopped the magnesium for a while stopped the cramps for me, I am now taking magnesium again without a problem, but I also feel that I have adapted to the diet, whilst before I was still in the adaptation phase.

I'm still in that mode too, my legs are still weak and when I'm walking in the morning to work and am waiting at a crossing I have the feeling a calf cramps are coming up, also in the morning when I'm still in bed. Also I take l-carnitine, sea salt and magnesium, so I will test calcium and take some eggshells.

Also another issue I'm still constipated, maximum 1 time a week and candida symptoms came also up, but don't why, cause I'm not eating not more than 20 grs of slow carbohydrates a day. Is there also some bowel cleansing recommended, or is it just an issue that will pass?
 

Gaby

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Mrs. Peel said:
I equate drinking coffee to giving me the same "fix" that cigarettes do for smokers. I can tell I'm thinking clearer, have more focus, feel more positive.

I read a little bit of the book that Laura just got. It IS very good! It says that if you're sensitive to gluten (and most people are!), you're likely to be cross reacting to coffee in the same way (or even worse) as cross reacting to casein. That doesn't bode well at all. Coffee also has opioid activity, so you might be describing it very well: getting a fix, as if you're self-medicating yourself.

Coffee also "enhances" the insulin/sugar spike of food you eat.
 

Gawan

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Stranger said:
Incognito said:
[quote author=RedFox ]

Try different fats too, as some really don't agree with me (ghee for example - but I think its just the way the brand I use is processed, its not organic).
The need for electrolytes/water after diarrhea is really important.

You may be aware, but ghee is really easy to make yourself. I use an organic store brand of butter. The video below is a pretty good one, easy to follow. If you decide to make some, keep a close eye the first couple of times because the thickness of the pan makes a considerable difference on cooking time. (I've burnt a couple of batches using a lighter sauce pan) :zzz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkZgIN4cZYc&feature=related

I am just curious: Is there a difference in the quality of the end product if the butter used to make ghee is pasteurized?
[/quote]

When I understand you correctly, with ghee also the rest of the milk bits get taken off from the butter, so that at the end pure fat is available: that means purified and the ghee just cools down normally. Pasteurization is a partial sterilization and nothing else should happen to the content of milk.
 

Gaby

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Stranger said:
I am just curious: Is there a difference in the quality of the end product if the butter used to make ghee is pasteurized?

Organic is better and will have better nutritional value.
 

Tina

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Stranger said:
I am just curious: Is there a difference in the quality of the end product if the butter used to make ghee is pasteurized?

My understanding is because ghee has no lactose in it, this is not an issue. I could be completely wrong on that though.
 

Gaby

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Gawan said:
Also another issue I'm still constipated, maximum 1 time a week and candida symptoms came also up, but don't why, cause I'm not eating not more than 20 grs of slow carbohydrates a day. Is there also some bowel cleansing recommended, or is it just an issue that will pass?

You all remember as well to drink enough water in order to have a clear urine. The story of how Eades underestimated this in his cramps symptoms comes to mind.

If you're very constipated and the magnesium is not helping, you can try doing a water enema at least this time. I find that plenty of butter helps a lot, but I do have to take extra magnesium, especially during PMS.
 

Gaby

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Psyche said:
You all remember as well to drink enough water in order to have a clear urine. The story of how Eades underestimated this in his cramps symptoms comes to mind.

Here is the relevant quote. Of course, he was having evil coffee and alcohol, but still:

Tips & tricks for starting (or restarting) low-carb Pt II

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/230561-Tips-tricks-for-starting-or-restarting-low-carb-Pt-II

Dr. Michael Eades, M.D.
ProteinPower.com
Sat, 25 Jun 2011 07:04 CDT

Hydration

A few years ago, I learned the lessons of adequate hydration the hard way, so take this as a cautionary tale and benefit from my painful experience. I had always pooh-poohed the notion of drinking a lot of water in addition to coffee, tea and other non-caloric beverages because I always figured (and probably have even written in the pages of this blog somewhere) that coffee, tea, etc. are nothing but water with a little flavoring in them. I mean, if you start out with a glass of water and put tea bag in it, the water doesn't go away. It's still there; it just becomes tea-flavored water. Well, turns out that's not actually the case.

My daily ritual was as follows: Get up, stagger to the refrigerator and take a big gulp or two of sparkling water. Then make my way to the espresso maker and crank out a cup of Americano. Followed by four or five more Americanos over the course of the morning and early afternoon, interspersed with a gulp here and there of sparkling water. A snort of Jameson in the early evening, maybe a glass of red wine with dinner and a decaf Americano after dinner. If I watch a movie or read a book, I usually nurse another glass of Jameson. I typically take my supplements at bedtime, so I throw back another half glass or so of sparkling water then. Plenty of liquids, right?

Well, not exactly, as it turned out.


I began developing severe cramps in my hands and feet that I had a hell of a time massaging out. That was just the beginning. I started being awakened at night with brutal leg cramps, requiring my springing from the bed and walking them out. My potassium is too low, thought I, so I started taking potassium. No change in the cramping situation. In fact, if anything, it got worse. I was complaining to a friend who told me calcium had helped his cramps. So I downed calcium at bedtime. No improvement.

Another friend told me that tonic water had helped her with cramps, but I only half believed it, so didn't really try. Then MD and I had family visit us in Tahoe for skiing. I upped my booze intake, kept the coffee intake about the same, and probably decreased my consumption of sparkling water (or water of any kind, for that matter). The cramps increased dramatically. And what was worse, they stopped limiting themselves to the night. When MD and I were driving over to Napa one day, the cramps were so severe I could hardly drive. I had to keep the seat back as far as I could get it so I could straighten my leg when one hit me. Then my hands started cramping just holding them on the steering wheel. I pulled off the freeway and made a beeline for a convenience store and grabbed a one liter bottle of diet tonic water and proceeded to chug the entire thing as I drove down the road. Miraculously, my cramps subsided. So, I figured tonic water (quinine) was the solution.

One night - after being out of tonic water for a few days and being failed by my bride in resupplying - I had another brutal night of cramps. The next day I was scheduled for blood donation. After going through the long list of questions that must be answered verbally (and fighting down the impulse to tell my interrogator that I had recently paid for sex while imprisoned in Africa - those who have given blood lately will know what I mean), I was sent to actually have the blood taken. The phlebotomist couldn't find my vein, which had never happened before because I usually have rope-like veins in my forearms. She asked if I was dehydrated. I told her I didn't think so since I had had my normal four of five cups of coffee that morning along with my gulp of water. She brought me a couple of 16 ounce bottles of water that I drank, and, bingo, there were my veins. Big and robust as usual.

It finally occurred to me that my cramping problem might be due to dehydration and that the diet tonic that solved the problem did so not because of the quinine but because I was drinking all the water the quinine was dissolved in. And it occurred to me that the cramping was worse in the middle of the night because a lot of water is lost through the breath at night. (See my second post on the Anthony Colpo Smackdown to read more about this.) You can lose a couple of pounds during sleep simply by breathing water vapor away, which was, I'm sure, what was happening to me. I was barely hydrated enough to prevent cramping while awake, but when I slept and my fluid level fell due to my breathing water away, I hit some critical threshold of fluid that kicked off the cramps.

{We also always recommend hydration during the EE program}

I started rehydrating first thing in the morning and throughout the day. Now I get up, drink anywhere from 16 to 32 ounces of remineralized water (more about which later) first thing. Then I head to the espresso maker and start my daily Americano regimen. But I consume at least 8 ounces of sparkling water after each cup of coffee. And I drink water after each shot of Jameson and/or glass of wine (or any other alcoholic libation),* and I'm proud to report that I have been cramp free since upping the water.

My brush with cramping misery inspired me to hit the medical literature to read about hydration. And I learned many wonderful things. For example, I learned coffee is a diuretic (which I already knew but had chosen to forget), but that some acclimation occurs over time. Still, due to the diuretic effect, you don't get the full fluid from a cup of coffee that you would from an equal amount of water. Same with alcohol. Once I started calculating how much fluid of that I drank throughout the day I was actually retaining, I was amazed that cramping was the worst that happened to me.

I learned that water has a lipolytic effect (fat burning). I read this in a number of papers that had studied it, and the data clearly showed that those who took in a lot of water had increased lipolysis. I didn't deny the data, but I couldn't figure out the mechanism (and apparently neither could any of the authors because none described it). I thought on it a while and finally came up with what I think is a plausible scenario.

When you drink water, especially cold water, you require some increase in caloric burning to bring the water to body temperature, but that increase doesn't amount to all that much (the authors did describe this phenomenon), but you also dilute your blood for a bit until the water equilibrates with the fluid in all the tissues, and effect that takes some time. During this time, while the blood is more dilute, the concentration of the various substances carried in the blood decreases. Which would mean that insulin levels would fall. The typical blood volume is about 5 liters, so drinking a liter of water would increase the blood volume temporarily by about 20 percent, which would mean the concentration of insulin and other molecules in the blood would fall by about 20 percent. A 20 percent drop in insulin levels would allow fat to escape the fat cells and would facilitate its transfer into the mitochondria for burning. At least that's my explanation for the lipolytic effect seen in numerous studies of subjects increasing water intake.

Those starting a low-carb diet are prone to dehydration because excess ketones are gotten rid of via the kidneys along with a lot of fluid. So, when you start your diet, consciously increase your fluid intake. Do like I do now and come up with some sort of regimen that ensures you consume plenty of water throughout the day. You'll feel better; you'll avoid cramping; and you'll actually burn a little more fat. And don't make the mistake I did and assume that drinking a lot of coffee, tea, booze or other diuretic fluid is a replacement for water intake.

Since I drink either bottled water or water that comes through our RO filter, both of which are depleted of minerals, I always remineralize my water by adding a pinch of Celtic Sea Salt or one of the other such salts to each bottle. I add enough so that the water just barely hints of a salty taste.
 
Psyche said:
Stranger said:
I am just curious: Is there a difference in the quality of the end product if the butter used to make ghee is pasteurized?

Organic is better and will have better nutritional value.

I assume that organic is better but you didn't answer my question. ;)
 

Nicholas

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Stranger said:
Psyche said:
Stranger said:
I am just curious: Is there a difference in the quality of the end product if the butter used to make ghee is pasteurized?

Organic is better and will have better nutritional value.

I assume that organic is better but you didn't answer my question. ;)

Did you miss Incognito's response?

Incognito said:
Stranger said:
I am just curious: Is there a difference in the quality of the end product if the butter used to make ghee is pasteurized?

My understanding is because ghee has no lactose in it, this is not an issue. I could be completely wrong on that though.
 

Gaby

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Stranger said:
Psyche said:
Stranger said:
I am just curious: Is there a difference in the quality of the end product if the butter used to make ghee is pasteurized?

Organic is better and will have better nutritional value.

I assume that organic is better but you didn't answer my question. ;)

LOL! I'm reading and typing way too fast. I read RedFox's remark that he uses organic butter to make his ghee butter and assumed that you were asking about this.

Well, it seems that pasteurized or not, it should not make a difference:

http://www.ancientorganics.com/pasteurizationofmilkandghee.html

Pasteurization of Milk and Ghee

Concerning pasteurization: there are many ways to 'pasteurize' milk, involving many different temperatures and times at that temperature. You will see the pasteurization specifications of Straus Dairy Creamery below: they use a relatively low temperature. The main thing about pasteurization is that it destroys the enzyme lactase that is responsible for digesting lactose- the sugar found in milk. I have found that I digest raw milk better than I digest Straus pasteurized milk. We use Straus Butter to make our ghee as it is the very best butter we could find. Thier butterfat content is the very highest and the diet of their cows seem to agree with the results of their best in the world butter. (Gold Medal- International Dairy Competition, Los Angeles California, 2009)

As far as Ghee is concerned, there is a critical consideration to be had- Ghee has no lactose in it, therefore, there is no need for the enzyme lactase. When we make ghee, we boil butter for hours at approximately198-217 degF. We have seen no deleterious effects on digestion from boiling the butter at this temperature for so long. This is not only our experience but has been observed for thosands of years. Moreover, ghee has earned a reputation for not only being the easiest to digest of any fat but of helping in the digestion of other foods as well. In addition, ghee has been recognized for its nourishing and healing effects to the body.
 
Thanks Psyche. It seems Ghee is fine! But doesn't the cholesterol oxidises after the long heating process?

Incognito]My understanding is because ghee has no lactose in it said:
Did you miss Incognito's response?

Nope.
 

Gaby

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Stranger said:
Thanks Psyche. It seems Ghee is fine! But doesn't the cholesterol oxidises after the long heating process?

Actually, I was just reading that in "Primal Body-Primal Mind" by Nora Teresa Gedgaudas. But I think her concern was mostly within the context of skim milk which has oxidized stuff added for texture, not really butter. I'll have to check that one out later. But saturated fat is the most stable fat and that is why it is used to cook at high temperatures:

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/saturated-fat/changing-dietary-trends-and-the-obesity-epidemic/

Double bonds make fats unstable. These double bonds are the places that free radicals strike to convert unsaturated fats into peroxides, or oxidized fats. The more carbon-carbon double bonds a fatty acid has, the more susceptible it is to oxidation. Oxidized fats don’t function as well as non-oxidized fats. They make faulty cell membranes and less than optimal membranes for all the organelles within the cell. Oxidized fats can themselves become free radicals attacking adjacent fats and damaging them, or worse, starting an entire free-radical-fat-damaging cascade. All these forces work even more effectively at higher temperatures, so unsaturated fats shouldn’t be used for cooking. Unless, of course, your goal is to eat oxidized fats.

Saturated fats have no double bonds. They are immune to free radical attack. They are immune to heat damage. You can cook with them, you can hit them with a hammer, you can throw them on the floor and jump up and down on them. And they stay the same. Saturated fats are stable fats.

Butter is pretty much a saturated fat, it stays solid at room temperature. It is so stable, that this is what people recommend to cook with if there is no lard or other animal fats available. But perhaps you can pull out some research regarding the content of unsaturated fat in butter (if any)?

Added: From http://kellythekitchenkop.com/2009/05/oxidized-cholesterol-sally-fallon-answers-a-reader-question.html

"The fats are much less prone to damage by pasteurization than the water portion of the milk."
 

Ollie

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Psyche said:
If you're very constipated and the magnesium is not helping, you can try doing a water enema at least this time. I find that plenty of butter helps a lot, ...

Drinking water with potassium helps too, according to Fiber Menace, and today, I found that a regime of eating lots of butter/ghee with meals helps the situation too. :) First time that there's been an improvement in that situation. Energy levels OK, but as yet no 'Atkins Edge'.
 
Psyche said:
Butter is pretty much a saturated fat, it stays solid at room temperature. It is so stable, that this is what people recommend to cook with if there is no lard or other animal fats available. But perhaps you can pull out some research regarding the content of unsaturated fat in butter (if any)?

I found this about it's oxidised cholesterol content:

In my prior post, I related my experience with consuming ghee for a year. At the end of the year, my heart health improved in every way (including a lower level of "bad" plasma cholesterol).

I just ran across a study that confirms my experience. (UPDATE: this study also answers the question I raised in my prior post.) Here is the abstract and reference:

J Nutr Biochem. 2000 Feb;11(2):69-75.

Hypocholesterolemic effect of anhydrous milk fat ghee is mediated by increasing the secretion of biliary lipids.

Kumar MV, Sambaiah K, Lokesh BR.

Department of Biochemistry and Nutrition, Central Food Technological Research Institute, Mysore, Karnataka, India

The anhydrous milk fat ghee is one of the important sources of fat in the Indian diet. Our earlier studies showed that rats fed diets containing greater than 2.5 wt% of ghee had lower levels of serum cholesterol compared with rats fed diets containing groundnut oil. To evaluate the mechanism of the hypocholesterolemic effect of ghee, male Wistar rats were fed a diet containing 2.5 or 5.0 wt% ghee for a period of 8 weeks. The diets were made isocaloric with groundnut oil. Both native and ghee heated at 120 degrees C containing oxidized lipids were included in the diet. The ghee in the diet did not affect the 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A (HMG CoA) reductase activity in the liver microsomes, but it significantly increased biliary excretion of cholesterol, bile acids, uronic acid, and phospholipids. The rats fed ghee had lower levels of cholesterol esters in the serum as well as in the intestinal mucosa. Both native and oxidized ghee influenced cholesterol metabolism. These results indicate that supplementation of diets with ghee lipids would increase the excretion of bile constituents and lower serum cholesterol levels.
I don't have the full text of this article yet, but a careful reading of the abstract seems to indicate that there is some ghee without oxidized lipids and some ghee (heated at 120 degrees C) with oxidized lipids. That is one more step toward a good answer to my prior post.

UPDATE : I have the full text article now. The way they prepared the heated ghee was as follows:

Ghee (1 kg) was heated in an electric oven in a stainless steel mug at 120°C for 50 hours to a peroxide value of 25.0 6 1.0 mEq of oxygen/kg fat.

And here is a pretty good answer to my prior post from the full text of the above cited study:

The unheated ghee contained 0.16% cholesterol, of which 1.0% of total sterols were oxysterols ; the corresponding values in oxidized ghee were 0.051% and 17.2%, respectively.

This indicates to me that normal ghee is indeed relatively free of oxidized cholesterol. I'm sure my favorite ghee is even better than an average ghee. Furthermore, from the free radical point of view, ghee is a much safer cooking oil than any polyunsaturated oil. I also have the personal confirmation of improved heart health after ghee was added to my diet as I explained in my prior post. (For any skeptics reading this, I had no intention of showing that adding ghee to my diet would improve my heart health. I added the ghee for an entirely different reason - allergies. I was as surprised as anyone when all my parameters of cardiac health improved. I only became favorably impressed with ghee after all that happened and after I noticed how good I felt from a year of eating ghee.)

_http://freeradicalfederation.com/GheeLowersCholesterol

The fatty acid composition is:

65% saturated, 32 % monounsaturated and 2 % linoleic acid.
 
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