"Life Without Bread"

Laura said:
BUT, I feel like I do need just a FEW more carbs because when I have them, I feel generally less lethargic. So what is the deal here? How can I get a few more carbs without irritating the bowel??? I'm not talking about MANY carbs, only 10 grams or so...

There's always fruit. I know that sounds like heresy after reading Taubes, but there are some advantages to getting carbohydrate from fruit instead of vegetables. For one thing, fruit has the distinct advantage of being something that wants to be eaten. It's designed for it. Therefore it doesn't have all the nasty plant defenses found in veggies that discourage their consumption.

Health researcher Ray Peat actually favours the use of sugar (from fruit) over the use of starch (from veggies, but more specifically, grains). Sugar does not raise blood sugar faster than starch, contrary to popular belief, and fructose (which is half of a sugar molecule) apparently has an inhibatory effect on insulin.

Here's an exerpt from one of his articles (emphasis his):

[quote author=http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml]
...

“Professional opinion” can be propagated about 10,000 times faster than research can evaluate it, or, as C. H. Spurgeon said, "A lie travels round the world while Truth is putting on her boots."

In the 1970s, dietitians began talking about the value of including "complex carbohydrates" in the diet. Many dietitians (all but one of the Registered Dietitians that I knew of) claimed that starches were more slowly absorbed than sugars, and so should be less disruptive to the blood sugar and insulin levels. People were told to eat whole grains and legumes, and to avoid fruit juices.

These recommendations, and their supporting ideology, are still rampant in the culture of the United States, fostered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the American Dietetic Association and the American Diabetes Association and innumerable university departments of home economics, dietetics, or nutrition.

Judging by present and past statements of the American Dietetic Association, I think some kind of institutional brain defect might account for their recommendations. Although the dietetic association now feebly acknowledges that sugars don't raise the blood sugar more quickly than starches do, they can't get away from their absurd old recommendations, which were never scientifically justified: “Eat more starches, such as bread, cereal, and starchy vegetables--6 servings a day or more. Start the day with cold (dry) cereal with nonfat/skim milk or a bagel with one teaspoon of jelly/jam. Put starch center stage--pasta with tomato sauce, baked potato with chili, rice and stir-fried beef and vegetables. Add cooked black beans, corn, or garbanzo beans (chickpeas) to salads or casseroles.”

The Dietetic Association's association with General Mills, the breakfast cereal empire, (and Kellog, Nabisco, and many other food industry giants) might have something to do with their starchy opinions. Starch-grain embolisms can cause brain damage, but major money can also make people say stupid things.

In an old experiment, a rat was tube-fed ten grams of corn-starch paste, and then anesthetized. Ten minutes after the massive tube feeding, the professor told the students to find how far the starch had moved along the alimentary canal. No trace of the white paste could be found, demonstrating the speed with which starch can be digested and absorbed. The very rapid rise of blood sugar stimulates massive release of insulin, and rapidly converts much of the carbohydrate into fat.

It was this sort of experiment that led to the concept of "glycemic index," that ranks foods according to their ability to raise the blood sugar. David Jenkins, in 1981, knew enough about the old studies of starch digestion to realize that the dietitians had created a dangerous cult around the “complex carbohydrates,” and he did a series of measurements that showed that starch is more “glycemic” than sucrose. But he simply used the amount of increase in blood glucose during the first two hours after ingesting the food sample, compared to that following ingestion of pure glucose, for the comparison, neglecting the physiologically complex facts, all of the processes involved in causing a certain amount of glucose to be present in the blood during a certain time. (Even the taste of sweetness, without swallowing anything, can stimulate the release of glucagon, which raises blood sugar.)

More important than the physiological vacuity of a simple glycemic measurement was the ideology within which the whole issue developed, namely, the idea that diabetes (conceived as chronic hyperglycemia) is caused by eating too much sugar, i.e., chronic hyperglycemia the illness is caused by the recurrent hyperglycemia of sugar gluttony. The experiments of Bernardo Houssay (1947 Nobel laureate) in the 1940s, in which sugar and coconut oil protected against diabetes, followed by Randle's demonstration of the antagonism between fats and glucose assimilation, and the growing recognition that polyunsaturated fatty acids cause insulin resistance and damage the pancreas, have made it clear that the dietetic obsession with sugar in relation to diabetes has been a dangerous diversion that has retarded the understanding of degenerative metabolic diseases.

Starting with the insulin industry, a culture of diabetes and sugar has been fabulized and expanded and modified as new commercial industries found ways to profit from it. Seed oils, fish oils, breakfast cereals, soybean products, and other things that were never eaten by any animal in millions of years of evolution have become commonplace as “foods,” even as “health foods.”

Although many things condition the rate at which blood sugar rises after eating carbohydrates, and affect the way in which blood glucose is metabolized, making the idea of a “glycemic index” highly misleading, it is true that blood sugar and insulin responses to different foods have some meaningful effects on physiology and health.

Starch and glucose efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat. Eating “complex carbohydrates,” rather than sugars, is a reasonable way to promote obesity. Eating starch, by increasing insulin and lowering the blood sugar, stimulates the appetite, causing a person to eat more, so the effect on fat production becomes much larger than when equal amounts of sugar and starch are eaten. The obesity itself then becomes an additional physiological factor; the fat cells create something analogous to an inflammatory state. There isn't anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches. For example, fruits have many advantages over grains, besides the difference between sugar and starch. Bread and pasta consumption are strongly associated with the occurrence of diabetes, fruit consumption has a strong inverse association.

Although pure fructose and sucrose produce less glycemia than glucose and starch do, the different effects of fruits and grains on the health can't be reduced to their effects on blood sugar.

Orange juice and sucrose have a lower glycemic index than starch or whole wheat or white bread, but it is common for dietitians to argue against the use of orange juice, because its index is the same as that of Coca Cola. But, if the glycemic index is very important, to be rational they would have to argue that Coke or orange juice should be substituted for white bread.

After decades of “education” to promote eating starchy foods, obesity is a bigger problem than ever, and more people are dying of diabetes than previously. The age-specific incidence of most cancers is increasing, too, and there is evidence that starch, such as pasta, contributes to breast cancer, and possibly other types of cancer.

...
[/quote]

I don't know if this is the answer, but fruit is something to consider. Maybe even honey?
 
dugdeep said:
There's always fruit. I know that sounds like heresy after reading Taubes, but there are some advantages to getting carbohydrate from fruit instead of vegetables. For one thing, fruit has the distinct advantage of being something that wants to be eaten. It's designed for it. Therefore it doesn't have all the nasty plant defenses found in veggies that discourage their consumption.

I think this is another area of conflicting information. The Atkins (TNAFANY & TAASOLCL) authors tell a different story, as I recall. But then I don't think they ever address the issue of plant defenses. But then who does among the books we have been reading, apart from The Vegetarian Myth?

Other reading I have done in the past has discounted the importance of glycemic index, but GI was not considered there in the context of low-carb diets and the need to limit insulin spikes.

Life Without Bread, at least, acknowledges that in trying to establish the facts we are up against the interests of food processors and the pharmaceutical industry, which benefit from having confusion reign.
 
Regarding coffee, I think you should really consider what you're doing before giving coffee a pass. Yes, it should be tested by each individual, but I think that it is VERY easy to succumb to wishful thinking on this since it is such an addictive substance. I think there's a biological reason people are craving stimulants like coffee and chocolate before becoming completely keto-adapted.

From here (emphasis in the following quotes is mine):
Among other things, [coffee] stimulates the production of adrenaline, one of the hormones secreted by the adrenal glands to help us in extreme emergency situations. Our adrenals evolved to give our early ancestors the extra strength and alertness needed to escape a saber tooth tiger attack, but we don't often need that much adrenaline these days. Like sugar, coffee constantly stimulates the production of adrenaline, putting excessive wear and tear on the adrenal glands.
...
Prescription Alternatives by Earl Mindell RPh PhD and Virginia Hopkins MA, page 388

Also consider this from here
If the blood sugar falls to 40 mg. or lower, unconsciousness usually occurs. This unconsciousness is exactly like that seen in the ordinary fainting spell and is usually accompanied by pallor, sweating, and feeble, rapid pulse. Recovery from such faints is usually spontaneous and is brought about by a rise in blood sugar which occurs as a protection against further fall in blood sugar level. The abnormally low blood sugar level stimulates certain centers in the central nervous system, and from these centers impulses go out over the sympathetic nerves to the liver with a resultant increase in breakdown of liver glycogen and subsequent rise in blood sugar.

At the same time the adrenal glands respond to the fall in blood sugar by an increased output of adrenaline into the blood. The adrenaline acts upon the liver to step-up the breakdown of glycogen so that more glucose will be liberated into the blood. The effects of this adrenal-sympathetic stimulation with rise in blood sugar level brings about spontaneous recovery from the unconscious state. The cells of the brain now receive normal amounts of sugar and resume their normal function.

The hypodermic injection of adrenalin will also hasten recovery because the injected adrenalin has the same effect upon the liver as the body’s adrenalin. The common practices of applying cold water to the head, the inhalation of vapors of spirits of ammonia, and vigorous rubbing of the skin, hasten recovery from simple faints because these measures can likewise cause stimulation of the adrenal-sympathetic system.

If the adrenal-sympathetic response is weak, recovery may be slow; if it is absent, recovery will not occur and death ensues. If the adrenal-sympathetic response is adequate, but the liver glycogen storage deficient, the blood sugar may not be restored to normal levels simply because there is not enough glycogen available. Such deficient storage will result from poor nutrition.

Summarizing, it is evident that the blood sugar must be maintained at 80 mg. for normal bodily function, and that symptoms appear if the blood sugar falls below this level. These symptoms will be mild, moderate, or severe, depending on how low the blood sugar falls. Spontaneous recovery from low blood sugar results from adrenal-sympathetic stimulation of the liver with subsequent rise in blood sugar. Recovery from low blood sugar will thus depend chiefly on (1) an adequate protective response by the adrenal-sympathetic mechanism and (2) the amount of glycogen stored in the liver which, in turn, will depend on the nutritive habits of the individual.

We're not talking about being so low blood sugar that fainting occurs, but keep the mechanism in mind.

And finally this from Ray Peat's article.
Insulin release is also stimulated by amino acids such as leucine, and insulin stimulates cells to absorb amino acids and to synthesize proteins. Since insulin lowers blood sugar as it disposes of amino acids, eating a large amount of protein without carbohydrate can cause a sharp decrease in blood sugar. This leads to the release of adrenalin and cortisol, which raise the blood sugar. Adrenalin causes fatty acids to be drawn into the blood from fat stores, especially if the liver's glycogen stores are depleted, and cortisol causes tissue protein to be broken down into amino acids, some of which are used in place of carbohydrate. Unsaturated fatty acids, adrenaline, and cortisol cause insulin resistance.

So, putting the pieces together, when we're first transitioning to a low carbohydrate diet and have yet to adapt to ketone metabolism, we're taking in protein, without carbohydrate. This raises insulin levels without raising blood sugar levels considerably (no carb). The insulin shuttles away what blood sugar is there leading to hypoglycemia, or low blood sugar.

If blood sugar gets too low, this kicks in the adrenal glands, releasing adrenaline leading the liver to convert some of its glycogen stores to glucose, thereby raising blood sugar. This is the blood sugar roller coaster familiar to anyone who is (or used to be) on sugar metabolism and eating a lot of carbs without much fat (this used to happen to me like clockwork a couple of hours after having my morning cuppa, but we'll get to that).

Now, from the first quote, we know that coffee also causes adrenaline release. And from the last quote, we know that eating protein without any carbohydrate leads the blood sugar to drop too low (until we're ketoadapted, of course). Is it any wonder that we're craving foods that stimulate the release of adrenaline to try to get our blood sugar back in line? Before adaptation, our blood sugar is probably low, although not low enough to cause a major adrenal response. We're therefore drawn to foods that stimulate that adrenal response to bring our blood sugar back up to acceptable levels.

For me, chocolate was my vice while adapting. For awhile, the 8g or so of sugar in a dark chocolate bar was providing me the only carb I was taking in. I thought at the time that it was the sugar I was craving since my carbs were so low, and there might be some truth to that, but I think it was mostly the caffeine and its adrenaline kick that was really fueling the cravings (I wasn't craving, say, fruit juice, which would have given me sugar without caffeine).

But then at one point, I just stopped. It was partly resolve, but after I'd decided to stop and followed through with it, I no longer had cravings. I'm assuming that it was at this point that I had adapted to ketosis and no longer needed that adrenaline kick.

My concern is that coffee is a really addictive substance, and it'll be quite difficult for people to quit it even once it's no longer providing a little leg up during the transition phase. Maybe people will be able to quit it spontaneously, like happened to me with the chocolate, but my own experiences getting off coffee multiple times over my life lead me to be doubtful.

I don't think it should be just given a pass and allowed on the diet. I think the idea that some might be tolerant to this substance is wishful thinking. It's not a good idea to be always releasing adrenaline in response to a component of the diet. Our adrenals need all the help they can get these days, and constant artificial stimulation is only going to lead to adrenal fatigue.

I could be wrong on all of this, of course, but thought I'd lay out my own reasoning.
FWIW.
 
dugdeep said:
Laura said:
BUT, I feel like I do need just a FEW more carbs because when I have them, I feel generally less lethargic. So what is the deal here? How can I get a few more carbs without irritating the bowel??? I'm not talking about MANY carbs, only 10 grams or so...

There's always fruit. I know that sounds like heresy after reading Taubes, but there are some advantages to getting carbohydrate from fruit instead of vegetables.

<snip>

I don't know if this is the answer, but fruit is something to consider. Maybe even honey?

I think that the insulin spike from fruit or honey would kill me. People who are carb sensitive also generally have hyperinsulinism and that's something you do NOT want to mess with. I've experienced insulin shock to the point of going into mild coma more times in this life than I care to recall and I don't ever want to do that again.

Further, NONE of the fruits available nowadays are anything like the fruits that "want to be eaten" of our evolutionary past. They are loaded with extremely high sugar content and for someone who is carb sensitive, that would be playing with fire.

Not a good suggestion, sorry.

I should also mention that I recently had an attack of pancreatitis after eating just a few too many nuts that were a bit higher in carbs than I realized. That's another extremely unpleasant thing that one does not wish to repeat.
 
Laura,

I remember reading that you knew how to muscle test. Maybe I'm stating the obvious and you've done this already, but have you tried muscle testing to know what you can and cannot eat? As well as the quantities you can have for each of these foods?
 
Laura said:
BUT, I feel like I do need just a FEW more carbs because when I have them, I feel generally less lethargic. So what is the deal here? How can I get a few more carbs without irritating the bowel??? I'm not talking about MANY carbs, only 10 grams or so...

How about avocados?
 
dugdeep said:
...My concern is that coffee is a really addictive substance, and it'll be quite difficult for people to quit it even once it's no longer providing a little leg up during the transition phase. Maybe people will be able to quit it spontaneously, like happened to me with the chocolate, but my own experiences getting off coffee multiple times over my life lead me to be doubtful...

Just remember that someone else with different genes, developmental influences, diet, and behavior may react differently. But in the absence of more research data I would guess that coffee often is not going to prove to be a good idea. Neither is taking a "wishful thinking" approach to improving one's health. People that are looking for the "secrets" of health, to use for whatever self-serving purposes, would be better off looking elsewhere.
 
Trevrizent said:
Megan said:
… ongoing problems with IBS-like symptoms. When I dropped from 72 g/d of carbs to 20 g/d my old IBS symptoms (from 15 years ago) came back with a vengeance. … This may have to do with the warning in Fiber Menace that if you are older and have been eating a high-fiber diet for a long time, your GI tract may have stretched and it might not recover, leaving you dependent upon consuming a certain amount of extra "bulk."

Thor said:
I'm also trying to figure out what I'm not doing right in order to get my digestion working properly. It takes forever for food to pass through the intestines and I take a lot of vitamin C plus magnesium daily.

I had continued to take probiotics and Saccharomyces Boulardii which is supposed to help with candida. My thought was that I'd stop taking them when I had fully transitioned to the low-carb metabolism. … I got a weird combination of constipation and diarrhea at the same time. This may sound weird but it is as if I am constipated and when things pass through it is as diarrhea. …

Another thing that struck me was Laura's post yesterday about getting enough foundation vegetables. ... So yesterday I started introducing more foundation vegetables and will see how that goes.

I’m one of the older ones too, on day 22 of being at 20g/day carbs, taking at least 12g/day of foundation vegetables, and taking full supplements (including probiotics, ox bile, enzymes, and Milk Thistle) as before (to reduce them after attaining the Atkins Edge and dachieving my Atkins Carbohydrate Equilibrium level). Since reducing my carb levels I’ve had problems with bowel movements, mainly constipations, despite playing with various levels of Vit C and Magnesium. Like Thor, I experienced constipation and a form of diarrhoea at the same time – the latter in the form of wet gas. For the last week, I’ve had a lot more gas too.

I’m not sure if I’ve reached the ‘Atkins Edge’, that of a dramatic increase in energy and sense of wellbeing. Definitely an increase in energy from early days, however, in terms of wellbeing, this may be clouded by sensitivity to Arachindonic Acid (AA). Symptons include poor and restless sleep; grogginess on awakening; constipation; minor rashes. Previously, I first noticed this with eating eggs (yolks) and have since reduced the amount that I ate in a week. Initially this was absent until about a week into the New Atkins programme. AA is found in all meats, especially red meats and organ meats, as well as in egg yolks (as well as in coconut oil). This may explain the problem that I’ve had with eating organ meats recently.

Eades quote in Protein Power that AA is located both in the muscle tissue and in the fat. The quantities are higher in red meat because red meat has more fat, which, at least in today’s feedlot animals, contains high levels of AA. Animals have the same eicosanoid synthesis cascade that we do, and when they are grain-fed and fattened, the high-carbonate grain stimulates their insulin just as it does ours. Fats are stored in fatty tissue in the same ratio that they occur in the blood, so cattle – and people – having large quantities of circulating AA will store large quantities as well. The good news is that range-fed cattle and wild game have much less fat to begin with, and what fat they have contains little AA.

Now the only red meat that I eat is lamb, and grass fed at that, and cured bacon. So, I’m not sure what is happening, cutting out eggs for a few days seems to have had little effect, one of the symptoms that I used to experience with too much AA was inflammation in my upper arms, close to the shoulder. I’m still experiencing that, may be it’s to do with re-experiencing past problems (detox effect) in the transition process. Speaking of detox, I’ve noticed that on sauna days that I have a need to excrete two to three times more than on other days. Perhaps I need to eat more fish (currently around once a day) and chicken and turkey rather than lamb every day. Maybe it’s to do with age and a stretched GI tract that may not recover. Perhaps I need more bulk in the foundation vegetables too.

Trevrizent, that is very interesting about the AA and also the eggs. I eat many eggs and also yolks and many mornings I have just not been able to get out of bed. It is as if I've only slept a couple of hours and the body doesn't want to get up. Now, I always sleep poorly and wake many times during the night due to back pain so I can't say if there is any impact there. The past couple of days, however, have been better on the sleep front but I will definitely be on the look-out for the impact of eggs.

Much to my frustration, I've found out that coconut milk gives me brain fog. Regardless of this, it is the only thing I have had a small craving for while on the low-carb diet. I have now cut it out of my diet and will retest in a couple of month's time.

This is my second day with increase foundation vegetables and so far everything seems OK. No change for the worse but, alas, yet no change for the better, either...
 
Laura said:
Well, oops. I ate the carrot and beet salad and now everything that was running smoothly has stopped. So, no veggies for me today.

Thing is, everything "runs smoothly" if I do NOT eat any veggies. Things slow down or stop if I do.

BUT, I feel like I do need just a FEW more carbs because when I have them, I feel generally less lethargic. So what is the deal here? How can I get a few more carbs without irritating the bowel??? I'm not talking about MANY carbs, only 10 grams or so...

How about Okra ? (slightly fried in fat perhaps).

One of the benefits it lubricates intestines, it's mucilage binds toxins which get evacuated. (and many other health benefits)

According to: _http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2498/2

Okra, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt:
Serving: 100g
Carbs: 5g
Fiber: 3g
Sugar:2g
Protein: 2g
 
I detest okra with a passion.

Not to worry, I'll just experiment with a bit of steamed sweet potato, a few green beans now and then, and an avocado here and there. I noted today that I had good, steady energy all day long and definitely no pain, but I just keep waiting for that "zoom" thing. Maybe I'll never get it? Maybe it doesn't happen to everyone?
 
Laura said:
I detest okra with a passion.

Not to worry, I'll just experiment with a bit of steamed sweet potato, a few green beans now and then, and an avocado here and there. I noted today that I had good, steady energy all day long and definitely no pain, but I just keep waiting for that "zoom" thing. Maybe I'll never get it? Maybe it doesn't happen to everyone?

Definitely no zooming here. ;)

I had a salad last week, Tuesday I think, and was sick the rest of the week. Friday started with an IBS attack that had me in bed most of the day. I'm still recovering.

Sooo...no salads...not for a long long time.

I seem to have a very weird tolerance to carbs....too much of any one thing gives me diarrhea. Too much fat, too many carbs, too much fiber....and its all very ticklish.

Right now I'm eating very bland until things calm down: plain rice and poached chicken with a little bit of ghee is all that stays around.

I did make an amazing beef soup last week: put the beef in a crock pot with duck fat, and coconut oil to cook all day...then Hubby added home made duck and chicken stock, garlic,
ginger paste, five spice powder, salt and pepper.....and WOW, that was beyond good!

But it was just a little too much fatty goodness. Same thing again. (Hence the rice and chicken.)

So, I'm with you wondering when the 'zoom' will arrive, though I'll settle for being able to go outside once and a while. ;D
 
Laura said:
I detest okra with a passion.

Not to worry, I'll just experiment with a bit of steamed sweet potato, a few green beans now and then, and an avocado here and there. I noted today that I had good, steady energy all day long and definitely no pain, but I just keep waiting for that "zoom" thing. Maybe I'll never get it? Maybe it doesn't happen to everyone?

Probably it doesn't happen to anyone. Some may just have a very gradual transition until, as you actually described, you achieve a point if steady energy. Achieving that balance in energy may be a very good sign. Just my guess though.

You can also try organ meats such as liver and heart, which have a good supply of carbs. Also, not sure whether you can tolerate it, but coconut may be another possibility, and it is very fatty.
 
Gertrudes said:
Probably it doesn't happen to anyone. Some may just have a very gradual transition until, as you actually described, you achieve a point if steady energy. Achieving that balance in energy may be a very good sign. Just my guess though.

Probably a good guess. I AM gradually improving in many ways, but it seems that my system, even though I've been moving in this direction for three years, is pretty darn rusty!

Gertrudes said:
You can also try organ meats such as liver and heart, which have a good supply of carbs. Also, not sure whether you can tolerate it, but coconut may be another possibility, and it is very fatty.

Yes, we eat liver. As I've mentioned before, coconut products inflame me terribly. It is, after all, a seed.

Got a new book today: "Primal Body, Primal Mind" Beyond the Paleo Diet for Total Health and a Longer Life" by Nora T. Gedgaudas.

Right away she says a few interesting things such as:

As a clinical neurofeedback practitioner specializing in EEG biofeedback, I help individuals exercise or condition their brain in a way that allows for greater stability, enhanced cognitive functioning, and improved affect and ability to pay attention through what is largely a neurological modification of stress response. {....}

Using neurofeedback, I myself was freed from over thirty years of intractable depressin that had not responded to anything else. {...}

I have found individuals repeatedly plateauing in their process, simply hitting walls they couldn't seem to hurdle. Some experience inexplicable backslides or have difficulty getting their brain to move at all. What such experience has revealed to me, over and over, is that typically there seems to be an issue with diet, food sensitivity, endocrine dysfunction, severe nutritional deficiencies, or a combination of conditions. Almost without exception, addressing these dietary issues allows the obstacles to be overcome.... The brain and body simply have to have certain raw materials to work with in order to function properly. It is abundantly clear that all the brain training in the world (much less any other form of support or therapy) cannot create a nutrient where there is none or remove a problematic substance that does not belong.

I found this to be a very good statement of what we have learned ourselves in terms of personal and even esoteric development. You can progress just so far in working on the self, trying to develop "seeing" and so on, but if you hit a wall and keep going around in circles, it is probably due to something like Nora has described above.

Later she writes:

The optimal human diet is not something that should have to require overly careful formulation by calories or percentages, much less by blood type. A person should not need a calorie counter, a percentages guide, or any sort of manual in tow when going to the market to buy food. No one should need a blood test to determine blood type in order to know how to eat. Such tools, though they provide a seductive sense of structure and security, can be unnecessarily confusing and do not ultimately constitute a sound, principle-based, commonsense approach. Long term, these approaches tend to lack sustainability.

Fundamentally, we are much more alike physiologically than not. Although it is true that we need to take into account something called biochemical individuality, the fact is that we are all subject to the same fundamental physiological laws. ... There are certain basic principles that apply to all of us that must be taken into account. To be fair, some of these truths are newly discovered and decidedly alter the landscape of dietary optimization...

As a species, we are essentially genetically identical with respect to genetic expression, regardless of blood type, to those humans living more than forty thousand years ago. Our physiology is fundamentally the same as that of people from the Paleolithic Era, which refers to the human evolutionary time period spanning from roughly 2.6 million to about ten thousand years ago - before the dawn of agriculture.

We are the result of an optimal design, shaped and molded by nature over one hundred thousand or so generations. In other words, we are ALL - biologically, genetically, and physiologically - without exception - hunter gatherers. And for much of our hominid evolution, we have been mostly hunters.

The hunger-gatherer diet can be described via at least two different perspectives: ice age Paleolithic and post-ice age, or neo-Paleolithic. The diet of NEO-Paleolithic peoples, including modern-day hunter-gatherers with some regional variation, essentially consisted of high-quality animal source protein, both cooked and uncooked (including organ meats), that was hormone, antibiotic, and pesticide free, naturally organic, and entirely range-fed with no genetic alteration. This diet included some eggs when available, insects, and seafood.

This diet was typically moderately high in fat, calorically, at a rate estimated to have been roughly ten times our modern intake (and fat was highly coveted). This included varieties of saturated, monounsaturated, and omega-3 fats, and balanced quantities of omega-6 fats, together with abundant fat soluble nutrients.

Neo-Paleolithic, primitive human diets, as well as diets during more temperate periods amid the ice age, generally included a significant variety of vegetable matter, some fresh raw nuts and seeds, and VERY LIMITED QUANTITIES OF TART, WILD FRUIT, as was SEASONALLY AVAILABLE.

There was far more plant material in the diets of our more recent ancestors that our more ancient ancestors due to different [climatic] factors. {...}

We have spent highly significant time periods during our ancestral history locked in the grip of mostly ice and snow with only the briefest periods of warmer reprieve when edible plant life could have grown over significant portions of the Northern hemisphere.

{Cites studies about ice ages} ...each and every ice age during the last 250,000 years actually began quite abruptly, typically (ironically) following spikes in global temperature.

Each time this change occurred, the climate descended into full-blown glacial severity within less than twenty years, sometimes well within ten years!

Only those people adapted in their physiology and cunning would have survived such sudden onsets of frigid, and unforgiving conditions. {...}

Studies of ancient human coprolites, or fossilized human feces, dating anywhere form three hundred thousand to as recent as fifty thousand years ago, have revealed essentially a complete lack of any plant material in the diets of the subjects studied. In other words, it is likely we subsisted for a very significant portion of our evolution largely on the meat and fat of animals we hunted. Fat was THE prime commodity for its concentrated nutrient and energy value. This has even been true of neo-Paleolithic hunter-gatherers and traditional societies, as clearly shown by the exhaustive scientific work of Weston A. Price first published in 1939.

Anyway, I'm off to read this one. I'll report back if I find particularly interesting info.
 
Laura said:
Yes, we eat liver. As I've mentioned before, coconut products inflame me terribly. It is, after all, a seed.

I knew about coconut oil but wasn't sure about the fruit itself. Yes, makes sense, being a seed as you said. I used to be terribly sensitive to coconut oil (not coconut) and also seeds, but I no longer seem to have any reactions. Not sure if the same will happen for you though, I know you've eliminated things throughout the years and have been re testing them again so you'd have probably found out if you could have them by now.


Laura said:
Got a new book today: "Primal Body, Primal Mind" Beyond the Paleo Diet for Total Health and a Longer Life" by Nora T. Gedgaudas.

From those quotes sounds like another must read.
 
Gertrudes said:
I knew about coconut oil but wasn't sure about the fruit itself. Yes, makes sense, being a seed as you said. I used to be terribly sensitive to coconut oil (not coconut) and also seeds, but I no longer seem to have any reactions. Not sure if the same will happen for you though, I know you've eliminated things throughout the years and have been re testing them again so you'd have probably found out if you could have them by now.

No haven't re-tested it... but, now that you mention it... I sure do LIKE coconut!
 

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