"Life Without Bread"

[dugdeep]

FWIW

I just made a batch myself. I used olive oil but have also tried with grapeseed oil, since I am not using it heated. Personally I prefer olive. Maybe some animal fat like beacon grease might work as well, which would give it extra flavor.

Today I made a big batch and used half grape seed oil and half olive oil. The olive oil mayonnaise is pretty good, but a little strong for my taste. After I finished the batch, we made a big bowl of tuna salad for lettuce wraps; a big bowl of cole slaw (used the mayo, salt, pepper, a bit of xylitol), and deviled eggs.

Also, for dinner tonight we are having baked salmon. I eat it with mayo on it.

I make the mayo with dijon mustard instead of lemon juice because Psyche doesn't tolerate citrus.

Just put the egg yolks in the bowl and one tsp of mustard for each one. Add a bit of salt and pepper. Start the mixer and start adding the oil. Keep whipping it and taking up the oil (pause with the trickling oil every now and then for a good whip) until it is the right consistency. That's it.

Thanks brainwave and Laura. Since grapeseed oil is quite high in omega-6 and making mayonnaise with olive oil in the past has resulted in a bitter-tasting mayo, I think I'm going to experiment with making a lard mayonnaise. I read a blog post somewhere about a person making it from lard and getting really good results. I'll post about how it goes.

 

[Gawan]

Although I'm not hungry, my legs are feeling rather weak again and the Ketostix indicate the highest value ever: 16 mmol/L. I even was feeling the ketones in my lungs -- it feels almost like acetone solvent -- wanting to breathe them out. I drunk more water and the feeling receded. Ketones are water soluble and go into the urine too.

Same here Data, my legs are very weak and this morning I'm feeling like lacking energy, if I haven't slept enough, which I have actually.

I mentioned a few days ago that I was in ketosis and felt the "Atkins edge". But I'm not so sure any more. If I had been in ketosis, I would't feel so weak now. So my new theory is: When I felt well again after reducing the carbs, this was not ketosis or Atkins Edge, but simply the adaption to gluconeogenesis. NOW that I even restrict the gluconeogenesis, there is the crisis again, but it is also a chance to get into ketosis. Not sure if I'm right but it sounds kinda logical.

Yes, it might be true and considering the feeling how my body feels, I'm in a ketosis in right now. It's like to put out of to sea with a tiny boat from a beach and riding the waves ;) until you are on the open sea and things get balanced out.

I think I'm one of those who needs a higher protein intake. Something similar happened to me Gawan, I cut down my protein intake yesterday and today to approach the upper limit of what I should supposedly be eating, and even though I ate more then my upper limit, I was starving today. This was definitely something not to repeat. I'm at my upper limit of fat intake, so upping it even more is out of the equation for now, I'm upping my vegetables but I'm also going to keep higher levels of protein since I feel that I do need them.

Yesterday it was much better, I felt not that much hunger than the day before. So I ate properly every 5hrs and a tiny mushroom snack in between. And sticked to the proteins and may ate also some less. The total fat intake was about (slightly assumed): 260 grams (butter about 200 grams and the rest from the meat, eggs).

I've mentioned before, but it bears repeating: we've been doing a lot of canning this year. We can meat. I got a 34 quart canner and we can get 17 liter jars into it for one batch. Doing it is actually a lot easier than I expected. We just get good meat, but tough cuts so that it is cheap, chop it into bite-sized chunks, pack it raw into the jars very tight, add one tsp salt and 1/2 tsp pepper, put on the lids, load the canner, and process it for 90 minutes (no water, it makes its own broth). We''ve been trying to do one batch every week.

If anybody can get a good pressure canner and do this, it is well worth it. The canner should come with processing instructions. We've canned beef and pork. Going to can sausages and patties, too and probably some fish if I find a good buy. We've also canned about 100 liters of beets (pickled and plain), 60 or more of pickles. We'll be doing all our squash and pumpkin too. I'll just peel it, cube it, pack it with a little salt and pepper, pour boiling water on, seal, put in the boiling bath canner, and let 'er rip.

Is there a topic of its own about canning? Well, because I have a technical question: I have also a rather expensive pressure cooker myself, but it says that it is not a canner, so can every pressure cooker be used for canning? But I'm afraid it is not possible, according to this page: _http://missvickie.com/canning/cookercanner.html

 

[Laura]

That is interesting to hear 1984. I have recently begun to play with raw meat. I'm still very cautious (especially because of bacteria or parasites) but I'm finding that it fills me up more than cooked meat. I'm eating thin slices or small cubes. I tried to put some condiments on it but the best taste was just pure red raw meat. Although salt sometimes is nice.

I've been researching the benefits of raw meat but I did not find good scientific data yet. I'll post here as soon as I do. Meanwhile there are some raw paleo forums and a guy called Aajonus Vonderplanitz who apparently eats only raw meat and some raw vegetables. They all speak wonders of eating raw meat. I thought it might be one way of dealing with some of the difficulties of digesting meat and fat, as raw meat seems to have enzymes that are degraded when cooked.

Cooking the food is a form of pre-digesting it and takes a lot of burden off the digestive tract. Sure, there's a trade-off, but this was discussed in the Paul Mellars/Neanderthal thread, I believe.

 

[Thor]

FWIW

I just made a batch myself. I used olive oil but have also tried with grapeseed oil, since I am not using it heated. Personally I prefer olive. Maybe some animal fat like beacon grease might work as well, which would give it extra flavor.

Today I made a big batch and used half grape seed oil and half olive oil. The olive oil mayonnaise is pretty good, but a little strong for my taste. After I finished the batch, we made a big bowl of tuna salad for lettuce wraps; a big bowl of cole slaw (used the mayo, salt, pepper, a bit of xylitol), and deviled eggs.

Also, for dinner tonight we are having baked salmon. I eat it with mayo on it.

I make the mayo with dijon mustard instead of lemon juice because Psyche doesn't tolerate citrus.

Just put the egg yolks in the bowl and one tsp of mustard for each one. Add a bit of salt and pepper. Start the mixer and start adding the oil. Keep whipping it and taking up the oil (pause with the trickling oil every now and then for a good whip) until it is the right consistency. That's it.

Thanks brainwave and Laura. Since grapeseed oil is quite high in omega-6 and making mayonnaise with olive oil in the past has resulted in a bitter-tasting mayo, I think I'm going to experiment with making a lard mayonnaise. I read a blog post somewhere about a person making it from lard and getting really good results. I'll post about how it goes.

FWIW, from a chef I know I was recommended to use avocado oil instead of olive oil to get rid of the bitter taste, when making mayonnaise. Organic avocado oil is obviously preferred. The only down-side is that it is quite expensive, so often time I mix 50-50 avocado and olive oil and the result is much better. However, using 100% avocado oil gives the most delicious and also beautiful mayonnaise you can imagine :P

 

[Laura]

FWIW, from a chef I know I was recommended to use avocado oil instead of olive oil to get rid of the bitter taste, when making mayonnaise. Organic avocado oil is obviously preferred. The only down-side is that it is quite expensive, so often time I mix 50-50 avocado and olive oil and the result is much better. However, using 100% avocado oil gives the most delicious and also beautiful mayonnaise you can imagine :P

Hmmm... have to try that! But obviously you can't use it for everyday! I've been wondering about using clarified bacon fat. I bet that would taste delicious!

 

[Gertrudes]

Is there a topic of its own about canning?

Yep, here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,21375.0.html

 

[Laura]

I must report that last night's experiment with cole slaw goes in the category of "I shouldn't have done that" for about everybody in the house. A few hours after eating, there were sudden, intense, horribly painful cramps and gas. Fortunately (for me, at least), it triggered a "fast exit" so I didn't suffer all night.

Today, however, I am bloated, brain fog, joints aching, feel like hell, more or less. The carb count was very low, but the raw cabbage was just evil. We'll try sauerkraut in a few weeks to see if that works.

 

[RedFox]

I must report that last night's experiment with cole slaw goes in the category of "I shouldn't have done that" for about everybody in the house. A few hours after eating, there were sudden, intense, horribly painful cramps and gas. Fortunately (for me, at least), it triggered a "fast exit" so I didn't suffer all night.

Today, however, I am bloated, brain fog, joints aching, feel like hell, more or less. The carb count was very low, but the raw cabbage was just evil. We'll try sauerkraut in a few weeks to see if that works.

I've tried a few raw vegetables, and I have trouble with all of them it seems (with the possible exception of carrots, cucumber and lettuce). Perhaps you could make cole slaw with chopped carrots/nuts instead of cabbage? A little apple cider for the tang the cabbage usually gives too.

I tried a handful of green string beans chopped and cooked for quite a while in ghee....good boost of energy followed by painful gas/bloating in the morning (just like peas). So it looks like pulses of any kind are probably out for me.

 

[Gawan]

Is there a topic of its own about canning?

Yep, here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,21375.0.html

Thank you, there is enough information to inform myself about canning. :)

Well today is day one of the protein control. I downloaded that program you linked to Gertrudes. It's very nifty indeed! Here's the link again for anyone who may have missed it: _http://download.cnet.com/Nutrition-Facts/3000-2129_4-10773427.html?tag=mncol It makes protein and carb calculation very easy!

For mac users here is also a free program available: _http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/33875/dax-pro and here is some background info of the program _http://westhollywoodtrainer.com/Pages/DAX_What_is_DAX-pro.html

 

[Jacques]

FWIW, from a chef I know I was recommended to use avocado oil instead of olive oil to get rid of the bitter taste, when making mayonnaise. Organic avocado oil is obviously preferred. The only down-side is that it is quite expensive, so often time I mix 50-50 avocado and olive oil and the result is much better. However, using 100% avocado oil gives the most delicious and also beautiful mayonnaise you can imagine :P

Hmmm... have to try that! But obviously you can't use it for everyday! I've been wondering about using clarified bacon fat. I bet that would taste delicious!

Well, when I do my own vinaigrette (salad dressing), I always use olive oil with a piece of a fresh organic avocado.

It is totally delicious and very creamy. Miam, Miam

Here's the recipe:

1 part of lemon juice
2 parts of oil (can be olive oil, grapeseed or whatever you like),
1 piece of fresh organic avocado
seasoning to your taste (could be whatever you like to experiment: salt, parsley...)

Mix thoroughly all the ingredients.

 

[Lilou]

I must report that last night's experiment with cole slaw goes in the category of "I shouldn't have done that" for about everybody in the house. A few hours after eating, there were sudden, intense, horribly painful cramps and gas. Fortunately (for me, at least), it triggered a "fast exit" so I didn't suffer all night.

Today, however, I am bloated, brain fog, joints aching, feel like hell, more or less. The carb count was very low, but the raw cabbage was just evil. We'll try sauerkraut in a few weeks to see if that works.

I had a similar experience last Friday night. My mom fixed ham and a new recipe she found for "zucchini cole slaw". Instead of cabbage, she peeled, de-seeded & shredded raw zucchini with carrots and onions. It was dressed with vinegar & xylitol. It tasted yummy & I ate too much of it.

In short order, I was bloated & feeling miserable. The exit was not too fast - I spent most of Sunday morning ridding myself of this meal! This drove home for me, the fact that fiber is truly a menace!! Alittle bit goes a long way.

 

[Courageous Inmate Sort]

That is interesting to hear 1984. I have recently begun to play with raw meat. I'm still very cautious (especially because of bacteria or parasites) but I'm finding that it fills me up more than cooked meat. I'm eating thin slices or small cubes. I tried to put some condiments on it but the best taste was just pure red raw meat. Although salt sometimes is nice.

I've been researching the benefits of raw meat but I did not find good scientific data yet. I'll post here as soon as I do. Meanwhile there are some raw paleo forums and a guy called Aajonus Vonderplanitz who apparently eats only raw meat and some raw vegetables. They all speak wonders of eating raw meat. I thought it might be one way of dealing with some of the difficulties of digesting meat and fat, as raw meat seems to have enzymes that are degraded when cooked.

Cooking the food is a form of pre-digesting it and takes a lot of burden off the digestive tract. Sure, there's a trade-off, but this was discussed in the Paul Mellars/Neanderthal thread, I believe.

Thank you Laura, I wasn't aware of that thread.

 

[Laura]

I had a similar experience last Friday night. My mom fixed ham and a new recipe she found for "zucchini cole slaw". Instead of cabbage, she peeled, de-seeded & shredded raw zucchini with carrots and onions. It was dressed with vinegar & xylitol. It tasted yummy & I ate too much of it.

In short order, I was bloated & feeling miserable. The exit was not too fast - I spent most of Sunday morning ridding myself of this meal! This drove home for me, the fact that fiber is truly a menace!! Alittle bit goes a long way.

Oh boy, I feel for ya! Atriedes has a simple solution that he repeats to all of us at periodic intervals. He says: "make a list of what you can eat... put on that list veal and pork and lamb and whatever other meats you like. That's it. Nothing else belongs on the list. Put the list on the refrigerator. Whenever you feel hungry, look at the list. If it is not on the list, don't eat it. It's that simple."

It's a lot funnier when he says it, of course, but he sticks by it. He's learned the very hard and painful way.

So, he told me today when I was complaining about how bad that slaw was for me: "You forgot the list!"

 

[Gimpy]

I had a similar experience last Friday night. My mom fixed ham and a new recipe she found for "zucchini cole slaw". Instead of cabbage, she peeled, de-seeded & shredded raw zucchini with carrots and onions. It was dressed with vinegar & xylitol. It tasted yummy & I ate too much of it.

In short order, I was bloated & feeling miserable. The exit was not too fast - I spent most of Sunday morning ridding myself of this meal! This drove home for me, the fact that fiber is truly a menace!! Alittle bit goes a long way.

Oh boy, I feel for ya! Atriedes has a simple solution that he repeats to all of us at periodic intervals. He says: "make a list of what you can eat... put on that list veal and pork and lamb and whatever other meats you like. That's it. Nothing else belongs on the list. Put the list on the refrigerator. Whenever you feel hungry, look at the list. If it is not on the list, don't eat it. It's that simple."

It's a lot funnier when he says it, of course, but he sticks by it. He's learned the very hard and painful way.

So, he told me today when I was complaining about how bad that slaw was for me: "You forgot the list!"

Hubby states it this way: "You're a visitor to a new planet, and most of the food is poisonous to you." So he'll say "Alien food. Bad bad." ;)

Its taken a whole week to sort out from the last salad I ate, so I do feel for you!

 

[rawtruth]

I must report that last night's experiment with cole slaw goes in the category of "I shouldn't have done that" for about everybody in the house. A few hours after eating, there were sudden, intense, horribly painful cramps and gas. Fortunately (for me, at least), it triggered a "fast exit" so I didn't suffer all night.

Today, however, I am bloated, brain fog, joints aching, feel like hell, more or less. The carb count was very low, but the raw cabbage was just evil. We'll try sauerkraut in a few weeks to see if that works.

Raw cabbage is known to depress thyroid output, and folks with a heavy intracellular microbiota load typically have low thyroid output already. This occurs due to Vitamin D metabolism disruption, in which there is an abnormally high level of the active metabolite 1,25-D, which has a very high affinity for the alpha thyroid nuclear receptor (ThRa). http://mpkb.org/home/publications/proal_congress_on_autoimmunity_2008
http://mpkb.org/home/othertreatments/thyroid_hormones

Did you ever get a chance to review the references I provided on the Marshall Protocol in this thread?
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,24001.15.html

BTW in my personal experience I would leave vinegar alone entirely, even the supposedly "healthy" apple cider vinegar. It's certainly not a Paleo food in any case.