Liver as Food

[Ollie]

Hi Trevrizent, can I ask about how you determine your sensitivity to them?

I used the Cocoa pulse test suggested by Murphree/Wilson in their books and a version I got from the Candida thread. Wilson does give a warning that this test is less than effective for those who have moderate to severe adrenal fatigue, that’s OK for me as the last time I tested it was mild. The format is to take your resting pulse before eating, and then take the resting pulse again 15 mins and 30 mins after eating. If the pulse is six points or higher than the pre-eating pulse value, then this indicates sensitivity, or being allergic to what has just been eaten.

 

[AdamJM]

Try chopping the liver really finely into small chunks, do the same with the same amount of bacon (you can chop this more roughly), add both to a pan and fry in some fat for a few minutes, then add a little water and cover and simmer gently for about 20-30 minutes. You end up with a rich gravy that you shouldn't notice the texture of the liver so much with (due to the gravy and the bacon masking it).
:D

im gonna have to give that a try, sounds lush!

 

[RedFox]

Hi Trevrizent, can I ask about how you determine your sensitivity to them?

I used the Cocoa pulse test suggested by Murphree/Wilson in their books and a version I got from the Candida thread. Wilson does give a warning that this test is less than effective for those who have moderate to severe adrenal fatigue, that’s OK for me as the last time I tested it was mild. The format is to take your resting pulse before eating, and then take the resting pulse again 15 mins and 30 mins after eating. If the pulse is six points or higher than the pre-eating pulse value, then this indicates sensitivity, or being allergic to what has just been eaten.

fwiw perhaps try the lambs liver/heart again a few times and see if the pulse responce is stronger each time? Some food I found my body had to get use too, but if it is an allergic reaction it generally has a stronger reaction each time.
This may not always be the best policy, but the nutrients from the organ meat are really useful to healing/transitioning to ketosis.

This sott article on bone broth http://www.sott.net/articles/show/232028-Traditional-Bone-Broth-in-Modern-Health-and-Disease may be of use too. It is especially useful for healing the intestines (which may be the cause of your raised pulse? - leaky gut), and I've found that its really helped (way beyond the supplements) to heal mine. It also increases digestion and seems to protect the intestines from foods too.

Even if you don't try the organ meat again for a while, I think the bone broth (whatever the pulse responce) may help bring some of your reactions to an end. osit

 

[Ollie]

fwiw perhaps try the lambs liver/heart again a few times and see if the pulse responce is stronger each time? Some food I found my body had to get use too, but if it is an allergic reaction it generally has a stronger reaction each time.
This may not always be the best policy, but the nutrients from the organ meat are really useful to healing/transitioning to ketosis.

This sott article on bone broth http://www.sott.net/articles/show/232028-Traditional-Bone-Broth-in-Modern-Health-and-Disease may be of use too. It is especially useful for healing the intestines (which may be the cause of your raised pulse? - leaky gut), and I've found that its really helped (way beyond the supplements) to heal mine. It also increases digestion and seems to protect the intestines from foods too.

Even if you don't try the organ meat again for a while, I think the bone broth (whatever the pulse responce) may help bring some of your reactions to an end. osit

There was an eight month gap between testing the lamb organs, with the pulse increase approx the same. It would appear that my body is sensitive to the redder type meats. I was hoping that organ meats would be OK because of all the benefits, even ensuring that I was really rested when the pulse test was made - to no avail. Re leaky gut, I've tested quite a few things recently that were new to my diet and the majority passed OK (no raised pulse), and retried other meats that I was previously sensitive to too, with a similar reaction (raised pulse level) - nogo. We are all individual, and our bodies have individual sensitivities.

Bone broth is planned in the future.

 

[Ellipse]

There was an eight month gap between testing the lamb organs, with the pulse increase approx the same. It would appear that my body is sensitive to the redder type meats. I was hoping that organ meats would be OK because of all the benefits, even ensuring that I was really rested when the pulse test was made - to no avail. Re leaky gut, I've tested quite a few things recently that were new to my diet and the majority passed OK (no raised pulse), and retried other meats that I was previously sensitive to too, with a similar reaction (raised pulse level) - nogo. We are all individual, and our bodies have individual sensitivities.

Bone broth is planned in the future.

Yes but, I want to point that we have to consider that the body is not a static machine and can adapt. I don't say that the pulse method is not to consider but perhaps a transition period must be allowed. It like bathing in the sea. If you take care of your pulse when you enter the water, you will never enjoy an invigorate bath an finally how you can feel well!

 

[RedFox]

Yes but, I want to point that we have to consider that the body is not a static machine and can adapt. I don't say that the pulse method is not to consider but perhaps a transition period must be allowed. It like bathing in the sea. If you take care of your pulse when you enter the water, you will never enjoy an invigorate bath an finally how you can feel well!

This was my thinking too. Perhaps your body is simply increasing its pulse because more blood is required to deliver the resources needed in digesting red meat, or perhaps blood is rushing to the liver (the liver is perhaps not use to processing it/producing enough bile)?

My methods of testing food sensitivity may be more blunt (as you say we are all individual) and consist of monitoring my energy levels, mood, thought processes, bodily fatigue and pain levels (as well as any join inflammation).

Ellipse point about transition is correct though, as I was unable to eat any fat (without having fatigue/inflammation/poor moods etc) until I started the liver support protocol. Given what we now know about fats (and how I am now feeling), I'm pleased I pushed through that (although slowly)!

Just wanted to point out an alternative view point in case you had not considered it. Finding our way through what is an is not inflammatory to each of us is a mine field for sure.....but I figure if we can over-react/react inappropriately to emotional situations, maybe the same happens with our bodies reactions to food sometimes? fwiw

 

[Ollie]

You are quite right about the increase in blood flow.

Dr Roger Murphree in Treating and Beating Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome]… If a food elicits a rise in resting pulse rate, this indicates an allergic reaction. This is because the pulse is controlled by the autonomic nervous system, and stress causes this system to increase blood flow and pulse rate.
…
A positive-reaction food or supplement will elevate the pulse above six points. Avoid all such substances for two-three months. For someone who’s been on a strict elimination diet for weeks, a rise in only one point may be significant. If other symptoms occur after testing, such as headache, sore throat, or fuzzy thinking, this is also a positive test, and the food should be avoided for three-six months. Severe-reaction foods should be avoided for at least three months.

And yes, the body is other than a static machine, it adapts, hence my testing after a period of avoidance of particular foods – a transition period. So as yet, no adaption of my body to these foods, and yes it is a slow process – another three months before testing again. Also, with regard to transition, I’m still taking the full supplements that I was taking before starting this low-carb diet, including Ox-bile, Milk Thistle, etc., so that my dietary research testing is ‘pure’. Only once fully adapted to the new diet will I experiment with supplement withdrawal – an elimination process, just as was used on the UltaSimple elimination diet in adding new foods one at a time to check for reaction to it.

 

[Rabelais]

In nature the carnivores eat the organ meats of a fresh kill first... at least the alpha members do. Lamb hearts were recommended by my vet when my old dog had cancer. He said it was the most nutritious food available for restoring health in a sick pet... he also recommended beef tripe for the same reason.

My mother always cooked liver in a cast iron skillet, either in butter, or cooking bacon first then sauteing onions in the fat, along with the liver. This thread made me get out to the market today and pick up some veal (calf) liver for dinner tonight. I like it a lot, but never remember to buy it. For those with an aversion to beef liver, try the calf liver. It is more tender and with a finer flavor. Don't overcook it.

All organ meat is at a premium in France - veal liver today was Euro 26.00 per kilo. They do some interesting preparations of organ meats here. In the states, everything but calf and beef liver was almost a throw away item at the butcher shops.

 

[Graalsword]

I have a couple of doubts regarding organ meat. Not especially with liver (which I remember to have eaten a few times several years ago, and was ok for me). But heart and kidney. I never tried them, but some people told me that heart is difficult to bite, and that kidneys smells like cow urine. Does anybody know a way to avoid that? Mybe the heart requires to be cooked certain amount of time? Same with kidney?

[Edit: closed brackets]

 

[realitybugll]

I also heard heart and kidney is not as pleasant, but I guess it depends on the persons taste. I have just stuck with liver. I looked up the nutrition information and it seems, these three organs all have very similar amounts of minerals and vitamins So from this I just assumed the health benefit is pretty much the same and to not bother with heart or kidney.

 

[theos]

I have a couple of doubts regarding organ meat. Not especially with liver (which I remember to have eaten a few times several years ago, and was ok for me). But heart and kidney. I never tried them, but some people told me that heart is difficult to bite, and that kidneys smells like cow urine. Does anybody know a way to avoid that? Mybe the heart requires to be cooked certain amount of time? Same with kidney?

[Edit: closed brackets]

I've eaten kidney and heart but only in a soup that I let simmer for at least 8 hours. They weren't hard to chew nor did they smell of urine, thankfully. They were quite yummy which made me "forget" what they actually were when I was eating them. I don't think I could have them cooked in any other way.

 

[mcb]

All I can say is read Deep Nutrition, if you can stand to. How about downing a portion of the still-beating heart of a goat? Maybe after that kidneys start to taste better. I am about 1/3 through it.

By the way, we had calf liver last night, my housemate and I and Cassie, one of our cats. This time it tasted good, so I guess the flavor is starting to grow on me.

 

[Graalsword]

I also heard heart and kidney is not as pleasant, but I guess it depends on the persons taste. I have just stuck with liver. I looked up the nutrition information and it seems, these three organs all have very similar amounts of minerals and vitamins So from this I just assumed the health benefit is pretty much the same and to not bother with heart or kidney.

So no bothering with heart and kidneys if liver has the same level of energy and amounts of minerals and vitamins.

I've eaten kidney and heart but only in a soup that I let simmer for at least 8 hours. They weren't hard to chew nor did they smell of urine, thankfully. They were quite yummy which made me "forget" what they actually were when I was eating them. I don't think I could have them cooked in any other way.

All I can say is read Deep Nutrition, if you can stand to. How about downing a portion of the still-beating heart of a goat? Maybe after that kidneys start to taste better. I am about 1/3 through it.

Thanks for the recipes!

 

[skycsil]

Yeap, I'd stick with the liver. I have memories on how heart and kidney smelled like when my mom cooked it and it's not a nice smell.

I had grass fed beef liver yesterday, following the advices read here in this thread about not cooking it too much, and must say it was delicious! Just had some for breakfast with minced meat and bone broth and feel great, satisfied but energetic and my pulse hasn't change. I'll have this more often!

 

[RedFox]

fwiw I think heart/kidneys being tough/smelly is probably related to the health of the meat/animal and how it is prepared.
Before going low carb we had steak and kidney buckwheat pastry pie, and it was lovely! The trick is to cut the kidney into tiny pieces and cook until it is falling appart.
The heart we had in a stew that was cooked slowly for 6 hours, and it was also lovely! Like an extremely rich steak.

As to liver containing the same nutrients, I think the heart (specifically beef heart) has the highest concentration of l-carnatine. I don't think the liver contains much (if any) by comparison, but am not sure about that.