Liver as Food

[Beorn]

I've been wondering if I should be eating organs for optimal nutrition and what organs are best. Mark Hyman seems to indicate that we shouldn't be eating a lot of organ meats...

[quote author="Mark Hyman"]
Unless you eat a lot of organ meats (like liver, kidney, and brains, often prized in traditional cultures), which is not a good idea because they store toxins, you may need to supplement with PS [phosphatidylserine - a phospholipid].
[/quote]

Although this also means that organs are great for getting PS which is "critical for brain function".

Is it possible that even the organs of organic grass-fed animals still have high levels of toxins due to the amount of toxins in the atmosphere?

Secondly, and maybe this could be a question for the C's, is it possible certain parts of an animal hold a higher frequency then other parts? I was just thinking about attachments and how they might become attracted to certain parts of the body due to it being a similar frequency and I wonder if parts of animals could be of a higher frequency(like the brain and heart) and therefore better for us to eat.

The reason I thought about this was because during meditation what appeared to be some kind of attachment rose from the depths and said in a croaky/slightly demonic voice "What do you want!" I could see that it was uncomfortable with me eating meat because of the higher frequency. I told it that it was time to leave.

 

[mcb]

I've been wondering if I should be eating organs for optimal nutrition and what organs are best. Mark Hyman seems to indicate that we shouldn't be eating a lot of organ meats...

[quote author="Mark Hyman"]
Unless you eat a lot of organ meats (like liver, kidney, and brains, often prized in traditional cultures), which is not a good idea because they store toxins, you may need to supplement with PS [phosphatidylserine - a phospholipid].

Although this also means that organs are great for getting PS which is "critical for brain function".

Is it possible that even the organs of organic grass-fed animals still have high levels of toxins due to the amount of toxins in the atmosphere?
[/quote]

I haven't seen anything to indicate that toxins in the atmosphere are a factor. The health and nutrient value of grass-fed animals depends on the health of the grass they eat and on the health of the soil. The Vegetarian Myth has quite a bit to say about this as I recall. If you don't eat organ meats then you are likely to need supplementation, since organ meats are what humans always ate until they were diverted to less healthy food sources, and Dr. Hyman just happens to sell supplements.

It is probably a good idea to know something about the farms where your meat comes from. The less information that is available, the more likely it is that you wouldn't eat it if you knew. I am still working on this problem myself. Right now all we have is frozen organic calf liver, until we find better sources (for ourselves and for our cats). Buying a whole organic chicken also provides some organ "extras." I don't know about you, but I don't adapt to such changes easily.

Secondly, and maybe this could be a question for the C's, is it possible certain parts of an animal hold a higher frequency then other parts? I was just thinking about attachments and how they might become attracted to certain parts of the body due to it being a similar frequency and I wonder if parts of animals could be of a higher frequency(like the brain and heart) and therefore better for us to eat...

I think so. Deep Nutrition offers some very interesting insights into this question that I have not yet had time to explore at length. It talks about "food as language," as in the way that your food choices direct your body's growth and healing processes. It proposes (and I have seen other sources saying similar things) that the nutrients and/or anti-nutrients that you consume or fail to consume directly influence the transcribing of your genes by altering epigenetic markers. This in turn can affect not only your health but the health of your children (who inherit portions of your epigenome in addition to the genes themselves).

I can see at least part of how this could happen. Some nutrients and anti-nutrients are able to directly bind with receptors on the cell walls. Potentially some of these structures, then, can be transported to the nucleus via endocytosis (see illustration at beginning of article). Unfortunately, much of the research seems to be focused on discovering new drugs rather than trying to understand healthy cell operation and avoiding the need for drugs, and there many gaps in what is known.

 

[Beorn]

Thanks for that bit of info Megan. I know someone who can get organic grass-fed meat so looks like I'll be giving him a call.

It's interesting that when my daughter is faced with a plate of various kinds of food she will automatically pick up the meat and chew off all the fat. Once she's finished with hers she starts grabbing any leftover fat or bones from my plate. Kids instinctively know what's good for them.

I think I'm adapting fairly well to the new diet... I just never imagined I'd be eating organs! But after all it is about optimum nutrition. I joke to myself that I'll probably be eating brain burgers soon enough. :O

 

[mcb]

...It's interesting that when my daughter is faced with a plate of various kinds of food she will automatically pick up the meat and chew off all the fat. Once she's finished with hers she starts grabbing any leftover fat or bones from my plate. Kids instinctively know what's good for them...

I was like that, and I would do it now except that it's hard to find any organic meat that has a decent amount of fat on it (and just try to find organic meat with bones in the store!). My "sick kitty," Cassiopeia (she is apparently diabetic), also craves fat. She has been known to attack sticks of butter, and to try to lick grease from the frying pan while it is still hot. Right now I am giving her small pieces of my "floppy bacon" (i.e. not cooked crisp) that I have for breakfast, which seems to satisfy her.

While I haven't read about this anywhere, I wonder if a craving for fat might be an indication of carb intolerance issues.

 

[skycsil]

That's an interesting theory. I was a fat eater myself as a child, never quite liked pasta, and I'm not diabetic but do have a severe intolerance to gluten.

 

[Graalsword]

I have a doubt regarding organ meat. From the research done, articles posted, the experience of those members who already tried it, I have no doubts about organ meat (especially liver, heart and kidney) being one of the best food that it should be eaten very often. However I was thinking on paleolithic hunter societies, when they hunted an animal, they must have got a lot of meat from the animal (deer, raindeer, mommoth, pork, whatever) and just one heart, one liver and two kidneys.

That means: for each animal they hunted, they had meat enough for all the clan, but only organs for a few of them, so in nature meat is more abundant than organs, could that mean that we shouldn't eat solely organs but have them as complement to meat?

 

[HowToBe]

I just came across this, which I found interesting. It's from a site with a mainstream worldview, but this part stood out regarding ketosis.

_www.livestrong.com/article/472340-nutritional-data-for-grass-fed-beef-liver/

Protein and Carbohydrates

Grass-fed beef liver is a good source of protein, meeting nearly 100 percent of your daily value. An 8 oz. serving contains 44 g of protein. As a complete source of protein, beef liver provides your body with all the essential amino acids necessary to build the proteins found in your body. Unlike other cuts of meat, such as the beef eye of round, beef liver does contain a small amount of carbs, 11 g in an 8 oz. portion.

Has this been discussed before?

 

[SoCurious]

It's not just carnivores that eat the organs first. Hunting tribes will eat the liver first, raw, warm and bloody, right where the kill is lying. After that they'll take the carcass back to where they reside. Liver without doubt is the most prized meat from herbivores amongst these people.

 

[mcb]

Has this been discussed before?

The carbs in liver? Yes. There's nothing wrong with carbs per se, especially in such small amounts. If you are counting carbs, it's something to be aware of.

I didn't realize how high in protein liver is, though. 44g in 8 oz. My carb counter book confirms it (it indicates even more protein, although not by much). Wow! If you are restricting protein, this is definitely something to be aware of.

 

[HowToBe]

Richard: I suppose eating it that fresh makes it pretty safe compared to our meats which sit around a while and get handled before we get them. At least in some ways. I don't know if I'll ever try raw meat, but probably not while I live with my mom! :P

Hmm... now I'm curious just what kind of carbs are in liver, and if they differ from typical "plant carbs"... Whohoo, found something!
_www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?117929-Carbs-in-Beef-Liver

Carbohydrate is stored in the liver as glycogen.

Way more than you want to know about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen#Function_and_regulation_of_liver_glycogen

And this from another post: "Just like your liver stores carbs, so does a cows. When you cut one out it still has glycogen stored in it."

About glycogen:
_http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/547glycogen.html

Glycogen is the storage form of glucose in animals and humans which is analogous to the starch in plants. Glycogen is synthesized and stored mainly in the liver and the muscles.
...
The structure of glycogen consists of long polymer chains of glucose units connected by an alpha acetal linkage.

Interesting stuff. If I recall correctly glycogen is how the body stores glucose during ketosis. This bit from the Wiki article above suggests that as well:

Glycogen depletion and endurance exercise

Long-distance athletes such as marathon runners, cross-country skiers, and cyclists often experience glycogen depletion, where almost all of the athlete's glycogen stores are depleted after long periods of exertion without enough energy consumption. This phenomenon is referred to as "hitting the wall". In marathon runners, it normally happens around the 20-mile (32 km) point of a marathon, depending on the size of the runner and the race course.[citation needed]

Glycogen depletion can be forestalled in four possible ways. First, during exercise carbohydrates with the highest possible rate of conversion to blood glucose per time (high glycemic Index) are ingested continuously. The best possible outcome of this strategy replaces about 35% of glucose consumed at heart rates above about 80% of maximum. Second, through training, the body can be conditioned to burn fat earlier, faster, and more efficiently[citation needed], sparing carbohydrate use from all sources. Third, by consuming foods low on the glycemic Index for 12–18 hours before the event, the liver and muscles will store the resulting slow but steady stream of glucose as glycogen, instead of fat. This process is known as carbohydrate loading.

I figure this would also be true on a low-carb ketosis diet. It's another form of glucose that the liver can use to make ketones.

I wasn't able to find any info about what happens when glycogen is digested, though, which I'm curious about. Does it get broken down, or does it go straight into the liver and muscles to be stored?

And a general question: Many recipes recommend soaking "gamey" meats such as liver in milk overnight to reduce that taste which some find unpleasant. Does anyone know of a method that will work within our diet? This might help my mom handle liver a bit better, although so far she's liked the chicken liver we got from a local "grassfed" farm.

 

[Hesper]

And a general question: Many recipes recommend soaking "gamey" meats such as liver in milk overnight to reduce that taste which some find unpleasant. Does anyone know of a method that will work within our diet? This might help my mom handle liver a bit better, although so far she's liked the chicken liver we got from a local "grassfed" farm.

The recipe below results in probably one of the most delicious meals I've had in a long time, but that also comes with a price. If you want tasty you might have a dopamine/reward circuitry problem to fend off when it comes to over-eating (and there are probably hidden carbs in these spices too, so watch out for those). Also, make sure you go for an onion that's relatively low in carb (I guess some can go from 7 to 22 carbs per cup). So, if you want a delicious liver (or maybe switch that out with other gamey meats) , then the recipe below really takes the cake IMO. Of course we all have different tastes, but this one blew me away!

From: _http://hillarystarbright.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/going-paleo-this-is-the-best-liver-recipe-ever/

Best Beef Liver Ever

(This can also be made with chicken livers. Feel free to substitute different types of bacon, or to add more garlic, herbs, etc. This is just the way I like it.)

about 2 lbs. of beef liver, sliced
one large onion, sliced
2-3 cloves of garlic, diced
handful of sliced mushrooms
5-6 slices of bacon
salt and pepper, other herbs or spices to taste

I use a lot of lard from bacon and butter to cook everything in and actually prefer to eat it cold, since the fat soaks up all of the seasoning, turns nice and hard in the fridge, and tastes like heaven with the onions, liver, and mushrooms. Definitely a once in a while treat, though, IMO.

 

[mcb]

...And a general question: Many recipes recommend soaking "gamey" meats such as liver in milk overnight to reduce that taste which some find unpleasant. Does anyone know of a method that will work within our diet? This might help my mom handle liver a bit better, although so far she's liked the chicken liver we got from a local "grassfed" farm.

I have found that after eating it for a few months, it tastes fine just as it is. I will often add veggies for variety.

 

[williamsj]

Cooking is not a science, it is an art.

Playing with liver (Lamb [my favorite], pig, beef [bit strong], calf etc. using lard/butter fried onions is excellent.

For those that feel they need more carbs, try sweet potatoes or parsnips.

Liver pate is my wifes domain, but her chicken liver pate on GF toast is to die for

My advice is play around and start maybe with the weaker tastes of chicken..

Have fun

John

 

[HowToBe]

Thanks for the suggestions!

The recipe below results in probably one of the most delicious meals I've had in a long time, but that also comes with a price. If you want tasty you might have a dopamine/reward circuitry problem to fend off when it comes to over-eating (and there are probably hidden carbs in these spices too, so watch out for those). Also, make sure you go for an onion that's relatively low in carb (I guess some can go from 7 to 22 carbs per cup). So, if you want a delicious liver (or maybe switch that out with other gamey meats) , then the recipe below really takes the cake IMO. Of course we all have different tastes, but this one blew me away!

Mainly I ask for my Mom's sake, as gamey meats can give her trouble, tastewise. So far I've made some basic liver and onions, and she liked that with chicken liver, and was able to handle it with grassfed beef liver. Thanks for the recipe!

I'm not really having much problems with a meat/fat based diet, but my mom is really finding the lack of variety difficult. She misses her flavors; mexican, italian, chinese, and various "comfort foods" she grew up with. But that's an issue for another thread.

 

[Nienna]

Thanks for the suggestions!

The recipe below results in probably one of the most delicious meals I've had in a long time, but that also comes with a price. If you want tasty you might have a dopamine/reward circuitry problem to fend off when it comes to over-eating (and there are probably hidden carbs in these spices too, so watch out for those). Also, make sure you go for an onion that's relatively low in carb (I guess some can go from 7 to 22 carbs per cup). So, if you want a delicious liver (or maybe switch that out with other gamey meats) , then the recipe below really takes the cake IMO. Of course we all have different tastes, but this one blew me away!

Mainly I ask for my Mom's sake, as gamey meats can give her trouble, tastewise. So far I've made some basic liver and onions, and she liked that with chicken liver, and was able to handle it with grassfed beef liver. Thanks for the recipe!

I'm not really having much problems with a meat/fat based diet, but my mom is really finding the lack of variety difficult. She misses her flavors; mexican, italian, chinese, and various "comfort foods" she grew up with. But that's an issue for another thread.

Does your mother want to be on the paleo diet? If not, that is her choice and she should not be forced to stay on the diet.