Marvel is so Revealing

[BHelmet]

Ironically, primitive may also mean closer to the true essence of a persons being.

 

[iam]

EXACTLY! bhelmet! thank u!

 

[iam]

when "someone" ask why black people are in primitive conditions and have a primitive mindset, and a response follows to describe why, implies to me that both parties are in agreement to the statement made.
there was no correction to the inquirer that their statement was incorrect.

Well, the statement is correct. Most of black people were (and many still are) living in a primitive conditions with a primitive mind set, compared to the rest of the world.

i guess everyone has a different idea of what primitive means maybe.. i explained MY perspective of what primitive meant to ME .. which is what lead me to my statement.

Well, first of all, it is quite hard to follow your lines of thought, and second of all, once you finally said that by "primitive" you mean that black people have a body that is "closer to the original state of being", we saw that your perspective is simply wrong. If you trust the C's, of course.

maybe you wanted to see that the c's said "black people are primitive"? instead of them explaining why the inquiry was correct? is it not?

No, what I want is to see is what does Hulk have to do with the black people

open your mind and remove bias .. and then maybe you will see my friend ..

Edit=Quote

 

[Turgon]

i guess everyone has a different idea of what primitive means maybe.. i explained MY perspective of what primitive meant to ME .. which is what lead me to my statement.

Maybe what might help this discussion along is instead of looking at what primitive means to you specifically, which can make it difficult to learn from this when the word means something different for different people, is to find some general understanding or consensus on what aspect of primitive was meant in the original transcript and going from there. But if you get too subjective about the meaning of something then it can easily turn into 'my truth vs your truth' about something which goes nowhere fast.

For example these definitions

1. being the first or earliest of the kind or in existence, especially in an early age of the world:
primitive forms of life.

2.early in the history of the world or of humankind

are off the table as a defining factor when taking into consideration this quote from the C's, seeing as they say there is no oldest race.

Q: (L) Which race on earth is the oldest?
A: All are same.
Q: (L) Even the Aryan/Celts from the other planet?
A: Yes.

Ironically, primitive may also mean closer to the true essence of a persons being.

EXACTLY! bhelmet! thank u!

I don't see that as what was meant by primitive though. Essence is some sort of inherent quality about someone or something whereas primitive tends to be about something being basic or lacking in overall complexity.

 

[Darius Dunn Sparks]

when "someone" ask why black people are in primitive conditions and have a primitive mindset, and a response follows to describe why,

No, what I want is to see is what does Hulk have to do with the black people

open your mind and remove bias .. and then maybe you will see my friend ..

Edit=Quote

Just to set the record straight, The Hulk/Bruce Banner, according to Stan Lee, is mostly inspired by The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde by Robert Louis Stevenson with a bit of the monster from Mary Shelley's Frankenstein's thrown in for form. Stevenson's story was in turn inspired by real man William Brodie. He was a deacon by day, burglar by night, and was executed in his division. It's not a fight to contain a primitive self, but the struggle against good and evil in a person. Hyde and Hulk are destructive expressions of unchecked entropy.

Hulk's transformation came about by gamma rays because nuclear power was the hot topic at the time, same as Spider Man got his powers from a radioactive spider. When they rewrote the Marvel characters for the early 2000's, everyone's powers were derived from gene splicing instead. I bet in a decade or so they'll use nanomachines or something to try and prolong our suspension of disbelief.

If you want to take anything from these characters it's the warning against taking shortcuts in reconciling one's mental state. Doctor Jekyll tried to control the evil he feared within him using occult scientific means and was corrupted. Banner is forced to do the same either in a reactive sense as a victim of an accident or in other interpretations, to compensate for a vast inferiority complex stemming from a past of child abuse.

Like others have suggested, and I can testify to personally, comics and similar media are not too useful for The Work as they're too far removed from reality. There are some powerful fictions out there that have truth in their foundation, but you have to trace the author's influence. It'll cut down on the false correlations our brains inevitably make.

 

[Neil]

It seemed fairly obvious to me what was intended was the lack of cultural institutions and social integration. What you have is a patchwork of tribes unable to unite in any meaningful fashion operating at a subsistence level with fragmented knowledge preserved by various folk religions. There doesn't seem to be any profound knowledge or any discernible esoteric tradition still surviving there. Some of these tribes are rather warlike and most of them haven't been able to create a more complex society that produces art, education, or scientific inquiry in any significant quantity. The range of knowledge and experience is narrower and more localized. In general, their society is in a disorganized state and the national governments that do function are the creation of colonial powers trying to create enough order to exploit resources on a consistent basis. The pan African society looks like a post-collapse society that has gotten past the social chaos stage and settled into some routine, but was never really able to rebuild itself to its former level of sophistication. According to the Cassiopaeans, they are the leftovers of an advanced, intensely STS civilization which imploded. So lack of order/overall entropy=primitive. The "white countries" may be getting a taste of this soon as entropy is increasing all over their societies.

I didn't see anything implied in this question about the level of emotional development of individual members, or whether the society was opportunistic or altruistic, just the level of sophistication of the society and its ability to get things done. Atlantis was an evil empire, but it was able to gather a lot of knowledge and undertake a lot of projects during its existence, hence, "advanced civilization."

I still fail to see how this has anything to do with the Hulk. Yes creatures are genetically engineered, most often by 4D STS for specific purposes, and now the white race had expanded into GMO as well. Oftentimes these experiments take on a life of their own, but this a fairly well worn sci-fi concept that has been done much better by other writers. The Marvel retelling of it is basically just some mediocre fantasy story geared toward the mass market American John Q public and obscured by so many veils of allegory and artistic license that it barely resembles anything close to the truth. I suppose there could be a tenuous connection between what these writers come up with and the actual situation according to the Cassiopaeans depending on how you read into it, but it is so tenuous that it borders on nonexistent; it is negligible in my mind. The signal to noise ratio is very low.

 

[Zar]

Is it me or is Marvel telling the very same thing the C's have been saying? My journey started with me investigating the soul gems and I learned how they heavily resembled the chakra system (amongst other things). This led me to look into the characters bio's, and man oh man was it reavealing! It was confirming everything the C's have been saying but in a hidden way. Laura reminded me of the character "the black knight" who is from a line of Percy's and uses a sword like excalibur for his powers. He also resided in a time of the crusades for a minute. He is from "Scandia".

Then I thought about the HULK and my semi obsession with him. I realized why he was so primitive and powerful when he transformed. I kind of related that to the big bang and gamma ray burst being one of the first, highest and most powerful energies when stuff goes hypernovae! I related his skin color green (since gamma rays have no color) was changed to represent chlorophyll. Then I questioned the process thats uses it which is photosynthesis to absorb light. Then I wondered how to we produced melanin. After all of that I realized why black people are primitive and why white people are more advanced. Interesting he used a rather advanced white scientists that transforms into a primitive state of almost raw power trying to contain itself. The constant battle to maintain and control his primitive self.

so this led me to duality. trying to explain why is there always an opoosing force. This led me to two characters named Lord of chaos and Master of order who were born together and always fighting so they created the being "the inbetweener" to keep balance between them and the universe.

after saying all this, i guess i'm just trying to say, marvel is a gem of information if you know how to translate it...it even led into dc characters that were str8 out of the bible like the presence. crazy!

well thats all i really wanted to share. Let me know if you saw any similarities in the marvel stories and what the C's say. i'm sure they based it on the bible and other myths, but the way they tell the story leads you right into the true meaning of some of the stories if you have the eyes to see. Makes you wonder if stan lee is part of the quorum like the character uta the watcher... have a good day guys :)

I used to be a fan of marvel and DC comics but IMO you should not used them as sources for understanding the world at large. We are here to learn about objective reality and using a fantasy world as your reference will not give you the understanding you need. I used to watch much anime and read comics and eventually realized that my internal world became shaped by said sources. Movies, video games, anime, tv, and what not should be seen as entertainment, not as references for understanding the real world when you have much better sources.
On the other hand I do understand how you can grasp certain aspects of reality through these sources. Take this anime for example, http://www.nwanime.com/ufo-gakuen-no-himitsu-episode-1/video/34309959ada78897e890/ I stumbled upon it and was very surprised that they would feature an anime about the cyborg greys being controlled by the evil lizards, reincarnation, the soul, pleidians, vegas, and such but it's all mixed with misinformation and won't help you understand the world as much as you think it will. I'm sure you only meant to state that you saw some aspects of our society in Marvel but it sounded like you were extremely drawn into the Marvel world. I could be misinterpreting as well since it's difficult to grasp someones true intentions through writing alone.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tristan]

On the other hand I do understand how you can grasp certain aspects of reality through these sources. Take this anime for example, http://www.nwanime.com/ufo-gakuen-no-himitsu-episode-1/video/34309959ada78897e890/ I stumbled upon it and was very surprised that they would feature an anime about the cyborg greys being controlled by the evil lizards, reincarnation, the soul, pleidians, vegas, and such but it's all mixed with misinformation and won't help you understand the world as much as you think it will. I'm sure you only meant to state that you saw some aspects of our society in Marvel but it sounded like you were extremely drawn into the Marvel world. I could be misinterpreting as well since it's difficult to grasp someones true intentions through writing alone.

You probably are right however you can find quotes, very inspiring ideas in movies or comic books or other works of fiction that could help us reveal the reality. If we remember to separate the Wheat from the Chaff, IMHO

An example are quotes by Charles Xavier

The past: a new and uncertain world. A world of endless possibilities and infinite outcomes. Countless choices define our fate: each choice, each moment, a moment in the ripple of time. Enough ripple, and you change the tide ... for the future is never truly set. from Professor Xavier

 

[gdpetti]

I used to be a fan of marvel and DC comics but IMO you should not used them as sources for understanding the world at large. We are here to learn about objective reality and using a fantasy world as your reference will not give you the understanding you need. I used to watch much anime and read comics and eventually realized that my internal world became shaped by said sources. Movies, video games, anime, tv, and what not should be seen as entertainment, not as references for understanding the real world when you have much better sources.
On the other hand I do understand how you can grasp certain aspects of reality through these sources. Take this anime for example, http://www.nwanime.com/ufo-gakuen-no-himitsu-episode-1/video/34309959ada78897e890/ I stumbled upon it and was very surprised that they would feature an anime about the cyborg greys being controlled by the evil lizards, reincarnation, the soul, pleidians, vegas, and such but it's all mixed with misinformation and won't help you understand the world as much as you think it will. I'm sure you only meant to state that you saw some aspects of our society in Marvel but it sounded like you were extremely drawn into the Marvel world. I could be misinterpreting as well since it's difficult to grasp someones true intentions through writing alone.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, watched that anime... actually not a bad attempt to insert some of the usual 'UfO' data into the public consciousness... not really so much 'misinformation' as some of the usual gloss of society, specialness, darkness vs light etc... I'd think of it more like a steppingstone along the path.... a decent early step along the MO, better than most, like the Matrix film, only more 'spiritual' in a kids directed way... like most anything that utilizes any concept outside of official govt propaganda might serve, it really is up to the individual themselves to seek and find... and bring back their 'gifts' along their journeys. This anime seems a lot better than most of the US comic book creations translated to the big screen, which has a history of whitewashing everything towards support of the empire.... I mean, 'Capt. America'?? Really? Is that ridiculous or what? Or the Justice League based here in the heart of darkness? Isn't that sort of the opposite of reality? but for anyone really seeking, it really doesn't matter, they only get stuck on any particular concept, platform etc as needed... and move on when ready. What little I know of most American comics fits in with this propagandist routine here in the States... they are concentrated in 3d STS reality, with a seeming intention of keeping the viewers eyes off the prize... a tool of deceit, which can serve the opposite use for the seeker of truth.... perspicacity ... the development of internal momentum... like Neo learning to 'fly'... even Superman didn't fly right off the bat as a kid, right? Like that line from the film "Contact"... baby steps.... that's how we all learn. Aren't all these forms seen in that light? same with religions, politics et al? ... different strokes for different folks.... as all paths lead to Roma/Amor. This anime was way better than i expected actually... but then Japan's take on most of these issues is different than ours, having been on the losing end since the end of WW2 and being in the colonial position instead of the leadership role.... which is a role reversal, not something American audiences have seen.... yet.

 

[bjorb]

I don't want to revive this topic. But this transcript below is highly relevant concerning on what was discussed on this thread. Maybe it can help those who are made to believe that some races are superior above others. Which is subjective and not objective. Every kind of society offer other kinds of different lessons. That's the whole point to it and nothing more. Diversity serves the creative principle.

[quote author= October 3, 1998]Q: (L) Okay, Bill Brooks writes in response to Mike: 'There is evidence for the case that mankind is devolving rather than evolving. We have descended from our forebears, not ascended from some ape-hybrid.
A: Devolving?!?
Q: (L) Okay, he further writes: 'Seems that there were indeed many civilizations that were on the planet with far superior inner resources to which we compare as grade school kids...
A: You are jumping ahead way too fast!
Q: (L) He writes...
A: No, no, no.
Q: (L) You don't want me to continue this line?
A: We want to take one step at a time.
Q: (L) Well, this was what Bill said back to Mike...
A: No, no, no, no, no, no! You did not answer our question!!!! You just ignored it. How do you expect this discussion to progress?
Q: (L) Okay, your question was 'devolving.' I was talking about what he was saying. Are you saying that 'devolving' is not an accurate way of describing this process?
A: Of course not!!
Q: (L) So, devolving is not accurate. What would be an accurate way to describe man's present state...
A: Devolving does not exist!
Q: (A) The question is, does Evolving exist?
A: No.
Q: (L) That's not the question. Does evolving exist?
A: No.
Q: (L) So all just exists and IS, is that it?
A: Yes. All there is is lessons.
Q: (L) Well, we are talking about the obvious evidence for higher and more advanced civilizations of the past. My thought would be...
A: That is not devolving. If your great grandchildren wind up tossing spears, that is 'evolution' too.
Q: (L) So, it is the spiritual matters that count and not the technological state of the civilization?
A: Close.
Q: (L) So, a highly advanced civilization could be not as highly evolved, spiritually speaking, as a less advanced civilization in terms of spirit?
A: No matter what, it is still "evolution."
Q: (L) Does it have to do with the fact that time is variable and selective, and all actually exists simultaneously?
A: Somewhat.
Q: (L) So, it is just cycles?
A: No, you are missing the point. There is no such thing as development. All experiences are rich with lessons. Many in your realm need to move beyond this superiority/ inferiority kick. [/quote]

 

[BHelmet]

i guess everyone has a different idea of what primitive means maybe.. i explained MY perspective of what primitive meant to ME .. which is what lead me to my statement.

Maybe what might help this discussion along is instead of looking at what primitive means to you specifically, which can make it difficult to learn from this when the word means something different for different people, is to find some general understanding or consensus on what aspect of primitive was meant in the original transcript and going from there. But if you get too subjective about the meaning of something then it can easily turn into 'my truth vs your truth' about something which goes nowhere fast.

For example these definitions

1. being the first or earliest of the kind or in existence, especially in an early age of the world:
primitive forms of life.

2.early in the history of the world or of humankind

are off the table as a defining factor when taking into consideration this quote from the C's, seeing as they say there is no oldest race.

Q: (L) Which race on earth is the oldest?
A: All are same.
Q: (L) Even the Aryan/Celts from the other planet?
A: Yes.

Ironically, primitive may also mean closer to the true essence of a persons being.

EXACTLY! bhelmet! thank u!

I don't see that as what was meant by primitive though. Essence is some sort of inherent quality about someone or something whereas primitive tends to be about something being basic or lacking in overall complexity.

My apologies, I just now noticed this and would like to respond. First of all, everyone who brought up the point of the need to define these terms is quite right. And the possible definitions are interesting and each variation sheds a different light on the subject. I don't think the C's said or were asked just what they meant by 'primitive'. What I notice in doing this is all the preconceived notions about 'primitive' and how the predators mind is programmed to automatically assume that the prejudicial connotations implanted in the mind by culture and education are absolutely and obviously true.

Before getting to those definitions, I think I was meaning to say that, the various connotations of "primitive" don't necessarily mean anything or denote some absolute hierarchy of better/superior vs lesser/inferior as the C's mentioned later in the thread. I also was suggesting that it may be ironic that a person judged as being superior for being civilized (right antonym?) might actually be less aware or conscious than a so-called primitive person.

That said, it is always important and informative to define terms. Most of us DO have learned prejudices about these terms. In fact, there are assumptions in the very definitions themselves that lead to these prejudices!

Oxford - ADJECTIVE

1 Relating to, denoting, or preserving the character of an early stage in the evolutionary or historical development of something
(this 'character of an early age' could relate to 'essence' since the C's noted there is no actual evolution or development; only lessons which are learnable by anybody, 'primitive' or not)

1.1 Relating to or denoting a preliterate, non-industrial society or culture characterized by simple* social and economic organization: primitive people
*here is a load of built-in prejudices: that primitive cultures are characterized by 'simple' organization; and that complex, industrialized, literate societies are ....somehow better. I know that those prejudices are not strictly spoken in the definitions, but the mind of the predator, I think, interprets it this way)

1.2 (Of behaviour or emotion) apparently originating in unconscious needs or desires and unaffected by objective reasoning*

*here it is assumed that no objective reasoning goes on when a 'primitive' is weighing a response to these "unconscious needs and desires"

(...which is totally laughable because we all deal with this in our personal lives all the time. Not to mention the implication that civilized non-primitives are more able to objectively reason and thereby somehow circumvent the unconscious desires)

2 Very basic or unsophisticated in terms of comfort, convenience, or efficiency:

(strictly material terms)

3 Not developed or derived from anything else

! (original! - this also could relate to essence... lol - AB-original)...(groan)

3.1 Linguistics Denoting a word, base, or root from which another is historically derived.

Hmm - more back to basic essentials

3.2 Mathematics (Of an algebraic or geometric expression) from which another is derived, or which is not itself derived from another.
Maybe sounds like more essence related stuff?

4 Biology (Of a part or structure) in the first or early stage of formation or growth; rudimentary.
fundamentals

Bottom line? My thesis:

1 - the word "Primitive" has certain negative connotations which may very well be the opposite of what is objectively true. And
2 - that primitives may have just as much if not more access to real being than the so-called civilized.

This also matches up with my actual personal experiences traveling in 'primitive' places where it took a super effort to match the level of being of the primitives.