“Mass Formation” or Mass Psychosis

Debra

Dagobah Resident
The view points shared in this video interview, (which has the complete written transcript included,) between these two men ties together many of the topics this forum has researched and studied over the years.

They are well aware of the obvious mind control methods of psychological trauma programming, and expand on the many reasons why humanity has become so off balance, fearful, ignorant and controllable.

Chris Martenson interviews Professor Mattias Desmet of Ghent University, a lecturing professor in clinical psychology at Ghent University, he also holds a master's degree in statistics.

Mattias clearly sees the beginnings of preparation for this mass psychosis to psychological evolutions throughout the last two centuries.
As has been discussed extensively here, the gradual degradation of our connection to the Divine was propelled with the introduction of Darwinist evolution, making life and our existence nothing more than accidental and flawed meat machines.

The gradual act of vilifying religions, removing our human connectedness to the wonderment of Nature and the mysterious spiritual aspects of consciousness has resulted in a lack of sense making, a helplessness and need of the authoritarianism only found in medical management, who will protect our weak, breakable faulty meat machines from Nature...ok, I kinda ranted there, but, from my prospective, it’s how I see the whole system right now.

From the transcript:

“[…]throughout the last two centuries, the phenomenon of mass formation became increasingly strong, and it was exactly because people experienced less social connectedness and less and less a sense making or meaning making and lives that were two central conditions. So it's quite complicated. It's associated, I think, to the mechanistic view on men in the world, which became more and more predominant throughout the last two centuries. Yes, but actually, I'm talking now about the situation, the psychological condition of the population before the corona crisis, because you need you need these conditions in order for large scale mass formation to emerge in a society. So we had this lack of social connectedness, this lack of meaning making and the third condition is very important as well, is that there have to be high levels of free floating anxiety in the population, free floating anxiety and free floating psychological discontent.”

[…]“Our mechanistic view on men and about our mechanistic materialist view on men in the world. That's the real problem. A view of men in the world that actually is not scientific at all. Because if you look at science, the science of the last 150 years, it exactly showed us that we are not a biological machine and that the universe is not a mechanical system far from that. It's a system that is aware. It is conscious, a system that reacts to our consciousness. That's that's the real revolutionizing, um, that has to happen, that the old view of men in the world is replaced by a view that is different.”

 
Last edited by a moderator:

PopHistorian

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
people experienced less social connectedness and less and less a sense making or meaning
Reminds me of this Hannah Arendt quote, well applicable to conditions of today, IMO:
Terror can rule absolutely only over men who are isolated against each other… Therefore, one of the primary concerns of all tyrannical government is to bring this isolation about. Isolation may be the beginning of terror; it certainly is its most fertile ground; it always is its result. This isolation is, as it were, pretotalitarian; its hallmark is impotence insofar as power always comes from men acting together…; isolated men are powerless by definition.
 

mkrnhr

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Heard about Mattias Desmet from the Brett and Heather Weinstein but haven't read from him yet.
On the other hand, this video has been shared before on the forum and may be related. In any case it's worth sharing with people who can entretain these ideas:
 
Last edited:

Chad

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Crossposting from the MindMatters radio show thread:

Upcoming book on the psychology of mass psychosis and totalitarianism is to be released this january.

Dr. Mattias Desmet: Totalitarianism & Mass Formation in the World explained
"Professor Mattias Desmet came to the conclusion that society was suffering from mass formation or crowd formation. This is a specific type of group formation that emerges under certain circumstances. Society needs to meet 4 certain conditions for mass formation to occur in society.
These four conditions are:

  1. Lack of social bond. Or a lack of meaningful relationships in their lives
  2. A large amount of society feels a lack of meaning in the world (for example, more than 40% of people within a society feel that their job was completely meaningless)
  3. Free floating anxiety in society. And in some cases, anxiety that the society cannot point to a specific reason for what exactly is causing this anxiety (overuse of anti-depressants etc)
  4. Free floating frustration and aggression.
If a society meets all these conditions, it will become increasingly susceptible to Mass Formation.

Link to interview on Peak Propirety:
Mattias Desmet on Our Grave Situation
Professor Mattias Desmet talks about his work that connects past historical episodes of what is called “Mass Formation” (aka Mass Psychosis) and current events. The risks are as grave as they come. Unless a few brave and courageous people are willing to stand up and say “I don’t agree!” history suggests that we will end up with a fully totalitarian outcome.


That is a dark path. It inevitably leads to mass casualties and atrocities. Eventually all totalitarian systems end in their own destruction.


My position is “it doesn’t have to be this way.” We can do better. Let’s avoid a future of atrocities and the complete destruction of our way of life. Unfortunately, those caught up in the Mass Formation event cannot see the larger or wider implications of their actions. They are very much like a hypnotized person with their field of view narrowed down to a singular threat or risk they have been told is the one-and-only threat they must conquer.


So all of their attention goes there. It focusses down. Nothing else matters. Eventually they transfer their anger and rage at that enemy – which is Covid today – upon a more relatable a nearby object. Perhaps their neighbor. Perhaps the unvaccinated. Perhaps immigrants who are stealing their jobs, or those who aren’t taking Climate Change seriously enough.


With that transference, the path has been laid to re-trod some of the most awful and inhumane periods of history. We’re there again and our own integrity demands that we do what we can to avoid going any further down that path.


After reading a comment on a SOTT article, The Psychorium: A needed new analytical tool in the study of pathocracy, that referred to Dr. Mattias Desmet and the theory of mass formation, i listened to the first hour of a podcast with him as a guest (here - starts at 20mins) and some of the points are quite interesting and i think help give a fuller picture of the ponerization process.

Perhaps he discussed it later, or i've just missed it, but it seems to me that the theory of mass formation is just a part of the process. One critical point that seems to be lacking is the impetus that pathological individuals have in the creation and shaping of mass formation and the resulting dictatorship/totalitarianism.

For example, the interviewer asked, since certain societies had already been exhibiting the signs of mass formation for many years, why didn't they succumb sooner? Why haven't countries like Sweden succumbed in the same way? Desmet agrees that Sweden meets all of the criteria (mentioned in Arne's post above), and he responds that it's a "good question"; why did Sweden buck the lockdown programme?

It's obviously complex, but I would guess that, maybe there are cycles of mass formation whereby it builds up to an ultimate conclusion, or perhaps many countries were ripe for mass formation however there needs to be a concerted effort from pathological or ponerized individuals to set off and direct the energy that has accumulated.

Why it seems to have manifested in Sweden differently to, say, some areas of Australia, may be due to the differing agendas or style of those in power, or perhaps because the culture is different and so it will manifest and be directed differently; or perhaps it's simply a matter of time and all will ultimately go down the same road.

Regarding meaning in people's lives, Desmet references David Graeber's research and book Bullshit Jobs, that showed ~40-50% of British people felt that their jobs had no meaning or real purpose. Desmet thinks that this lack of meaning permeates people's lives and contributes to the mass psychosis that we're seeing today, which i think makes a lot of sense. It also reminds me of Collingwood's point that the Cathedral builders of the Medieval period achieved such awesome, enduring, feats because their lives were imbued with meaning.

Further, Desmet references Ayn Randt (who he referenced a few times), saying that mass formation happens when society becomes overly materialistic. Which i think is interesting in light of the Forum's research into Darwinism and its fruits.

Well, those are some things that come to mind, but i'd recommend others at least check out an interview of his to get a better overview.
 

Michael B-C

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Having listened to a number of his talks Itellsya I agree that he presents valuable insights into better understanding how the programming was completed and ready to go ahead of lockdown. However, I second your comment below:

Perhaps he discussed it later, or i've just missed it, but it seems to me that the theory of mass formation is just a part of the process. One critical point that seems to be lacking is the impetus that pathological individuals have in the creation and shaping of mass formation and the resulting dictatorship/totalitarianism.

I forget which talk it was now (an early one in the number to date), but during which he specifically discounted 'conspiracy' and pathology as being an instrumental cause, preferring to focus on group think, jobsworth and systemic issues around mechanization. I found this strange for someone with such insight and someone who surely must know the literature on the role of white-collar pathology. Perhaps its just too far to go for his humanistic mind - that such a thing as genuine malevolent evil haunts the hidden corridors of power. But I don't think that takes away from the valuable contribution he is making to understanding the totality of the phenomenon - and he is certainly spreading his message that mass formation is here, its a first step to something more terrible, and that most importantly, it is by continuing to speak out that the small chance it will not be able to move to the next and fatal stage will occur.

The interview you included in your quote from Arne is I think particularly thorough and worth the watch.

 

Esprit

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
I forget which talk it was now (an early one in the number to date), but during which he specifically discounted 'conspiracy' and pathology as being an instrumental cause, preferring to focus on group think, jobsworth and systemic issues around mechanization.
Jordan Peterson also seems to have this kind of blind spot. It's a really hard step to take for most people when you tell them the world is ruled by psychopaths, even though it's obvious it's too much in the "conspiracy theory" ground for them to go there. The buffers insta-kick in to avoid their world view to crumble. And forget completely about being ruled by another dimension this is not even close to being a theory.

Funny somehow, it's like the viewpoint is conditioned to put the blame solely on people or any other phenomenon but not the rulers.
 

psychegram

The Living Force
Why haven't countries like Sweden succumbed in the same way? Desmet agrees that Sweden meets all of the criteria (mentioned in Arne's post above), and he responds that it's a "good question"; why did Sweden buck the lockdown programme?

It seems that Sweden is now going full fascist on the virus issue, and this has followed a new prime minister who has appointed a new health minister to replace Tegnell. From my friends in Sweden, my impression is that there was a strong push in the Swedish media to pressure the government into locking down just like the rest of the world, and the only reason this didn't happen was that the Swedish health ministry is fairly independent of political control, and the person running it happened to be an especially principled individual who was utterly unswayed by political or media pressure. Now that he's been replaced, Sweden is following suit.

In other words, Sweden was an anomaly in the Western world purely due to the accident of one man being in a key position.
 

Z...

The Living Force
FOTCM Member

Cosmos

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Just a note: Through Joe Rogan's latest podcast (apparently the most successful/viewed on Spotify yet!) "Mass Formation Psychosis" is starting to make the rounds worldwide as "the cause" of the Corona-Totalitarism worldwide:


Dr. Robert Malone was interviewed on Joe Rogan a couple of days ago:


At this point in the video Malone tells a pretty interesting story about his history with Covid and the CIA. He also combines this with a statement that sounds to me like he says he worked for "Fort Detrick" at the time. The problem is that that part is very hard to understand and I'm not sure if he really said "Fort Detrick" or something that sounds similar. I tried to find some references of Malone having worked at Fort Detrick without any direct confirmation, although it looks to me like that could have been the case. If that is the case, I find his story there more than just a little interesting and coincidental in combination with that Fort Detrick statement.

Some people on YouTube are brave enough to publish the content of the above mentioned Joe Rogan podcast with Robert Malone:




And another one:

 

Cosmos

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Started to watch an interview yesterday with Mattias Desmet where he explains Mass Formation Psychosis and how "it applies" to what we see right now:


Desmet mentioned Gustav Le Bon -The Crowd: Study of the Popular Mind. Interestingly, the moderator basically says at one point that this process doesn't necessitate evil intend or a cabal or conspiracy, so that basically all of this can happen unconsciously and everyone is falling victim to it, including those powers/leaders who are pushing the tyranny. Desmet seemed to agree with that point. It seems to me while certain things of that theory strike me as quite accurate that it might be a smokescreen for discussing/addressing the elephant in the room, which is: Ponerology/Pathocracy and authoritarian followers.

Having said that, it might be the first step into the "right direction" for a mainstream audience, if pathology/psychopathy (Ponerology) and authoritarian followers would be part of the equation somehow.
 

anartist

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Here is Tucker Carlson interviewing Mattias Desmet, It is an hour long, but very good.
He of course covers mass Formation, but then he gets into his understanding of why some people are not susceptible to Mass Formation.
posted 10 Oct 2022 (in English)

at about 39 min he starts talking about the problem being the rational belief, or the belief in rationality(materialism). It reminded me of left brain thinking as in the Master and his Emissary. But Mattias has many more insights, such as his movement from atheism to an understanding of the reality of the unknowable, to a real life. making this video well worth watching.
He does mention in the first half that the way to stop or weaken the Mass Formation is to speak up against it, which put me in conflict between my impulse to speak up beside my understanding that we must be strategically enclosed to the max as our role is different.
 

anartist

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
For example, the interviewer asked, since certain societies had already been exhibiting the signs of mass formation for many years, why didn't they succumb sooner? Why haven't countries like Sweden succumbed in the same way? Desmet agrees that Sweden meets all of the criteria (mentioned in Arne's post above), and he responds that it's a "good question"; why did Sweden buck the lockdown programme?...

...Regarding meaning in people's lives, Desmet references David Graeber's research and book Bullshit Jobs, that showed ~40-50% of British people felt that their jobs had no meaning or real purpose. Desmet thinks that this lack of meaning permeates people's lives and contributes to the mass psychosis that we're seeing today, which i think makes a lot of sense. It also reminds me of Collingwood's point that the Cathedral builders of the Medieval period achieved such awesome, enduring, feats because their lives were imbued with meaning.

Further, Desmet references Ayn Randt (who he referenced a few times), saying that mass formation happens when society becomes overly materialistic. Which i think is interesting in light of the Forum's research into Darwinism and its fruits.

Well, those are some things that come to mind, but i'd recommend others at least check out an interview of his to get a better overview.
The Tucker Carlson interview with Mattias Desmet deals with the points you bring up, and which are close to what Mattias senses are the ways by which people can be free from the Mass Formation. His main point seems to be that rationality/left brain materialism will only get you so far. Acknowledging the limits of rational materialism and realizing that life is a mystery, he feels is what has enabled some to escape (or to remain uncaptured) by the Mass Formation, Their understanding/knowledge that there is more to life than the material world, more to reality than rational thought can express or understand. This is a religious/spiritual comprehension which explains why FOTCM members and some spiritual organizations/churches have proven immune. Reference "Live not by lies"
 

happyliza

The Living Force
I have the same dilemma Anartisit :-(

He does mention in the first half that the way to stop or weaken the Mass Formation is to speak up against it, which put me in conflict between my impulse to speak up beside my understanding that we must be strategically enclosed to the max as our role is different.
 

truepositive

Padawan Learner
I probably adressed this is in one of my slightly unhinged 'everything' posts. If you are talking about Castaneda's; 'do not engage with the world too much' notions, you are fine unless you post all your personal info. But if you want to stay completely 'clean' you should not be on the internet at all. Every exchange with something real on offer is an energetic transaction. When i post something valuable, i might be giving, when i post tosh i might be detracting. Whenever people watch the 8 o clock news they are giving away their energy to the beast system. Whenever people are completely unaware of what or whom they are sending their energy to it is probably getting co-opted by something shitty.

This is something that happens beyond the level of mass psychology, although a part of it.
 

Metrist

Dagobah Resident
I've thinking about mass media and propaganda, so these are some thoughts about the subject.

Conformists and charlatanry and propaganda

Whether we talk of vaxxers, or Ukrainian soldiers, or any other group programmed by propaganda, the core group for which propaganda is designed, are the conformists.

Conformists are by inclination, non-thinkers. What is important is not facts or considerations, but: what is the most popular position. Considerations are: who is the authority here?

This leads to charlatanry. 'I am taking this position because ...(talking point provided by propaganda, false data ect.; a kind of artificial intelligence).
And in order to fortify ones 'position', a charlatan acts zealous in defense of it - employing a authoritarian position: 'It worked on me, I will project this outwards and it will resonate with my conformist comrades: authority!' And this is bolstered with rules that will threaten your livelihood if you resist, making conformity all the more persuasive.

And so, this is like a mental disease carried into social discourse, with propaganda acting as the 'mind'.

Inversely, reason could influence these conformists the same way to similar effect.

There would be 'parrots' repeating
whatever social discourse is popular, and who are we to deny them a framework of thought that might be a mold from which they'll grow into?

So you can conform to the degree that it is sensible to ones self, or conform to gain concession: alleviate social pressures, gain advantage, ect.

So, the target of propaganda is the naive, and the difference between propaganda and enlightenment, time.

Propaganda is urgent, it hastens actions.... Enlightenment is patient, it knows wisdom comes with trial and error. Enlightenment assesses a actual worth. Propaganda beckons authority.

So, in the eyes of the naive, the distinction is blurry as we live in a hourly focused world, which lends itself to propaganda. 'Get that shot!' 'Go to the recruitment office!' 'Protest!' 'Work harder' ect. When are the naive ever afforded a chance to think? This hourly rush conditions them to act on authority - not that it is all bad - their actions should be bolstered with reason.

Wisdom is acquired little by little through our experiences, so the young are at a disadvantage - and their mental error/deficiency are exploited and made viral by their own initiative. This is why people will often be resigned to the motto: 'live and learn'. Of course, some people never learn, and so this isn't limited to youth. These people are learned charlatans, and being that they are older, impress upon the youth a false guidance - they cannot impart wisdom, when their only resolve is to conform - to fake it.

So, given that it is targeted at the youthful and spread into society by making its victims disciples, in a time of volatility, this affords the same inverse effect of the youth to ask: Why? It is inevitable. To turn from conformity to reason as time and circumstance turns against a momentary opportunity to exploit a human weakness; a mental disease riding piggy back on a ruse.
It is a engineered disease that passes, and you hope for a rapid recovery as you ride it out.

So, is being naive, or innocent a diseased state? No. Propaganda acting against development is; fostering conformity in its place.

In the internet age propaganda can put everyone in synch. And so it begins with a event... A ruse. (911, covid, mass shootings, ect.) Then our human tendencies are exploited for a time - as far as they can take it, until the prevailing wisdom is that it was not as it was reported by authorities. This ends the propaganda, and the effect.

So, a event triggers a propaganda exploit, the vulnerable become carriers and make it viral, and authoritarian actions carry it as far as it can, and then it heals itself like a flu bug.

Why do this repeatedly? For the effect. It is a periodic conditioning to exploit a rift in each generation. A kind of meta weakening for managing human resource. And bolster authority when it is in crisis.
 
Top Bottom