Meat, anyone?

[CarpeDiem]

_http://www.meat.org/index-1.asp?c=MYMblogadag07
if you watch this... i wonder if we do treat 2D creatures for our food mindlessly like this, and we DO, how the hell do we think we deserve to be treated by lizzies then?

 

[OCKHAM]

I would say they are abused in most cases. I have experienced some of that growing up on a farm where my father had pigs and cows all while I was living at home.

In that type of circumstance, we had lots of pork chops and cow meat in the freezer which was a main staple of food but I have not eaten a pork chop in at least 30 years or a steak in about 10.

I can remember a couple of times when my father gutted a pig on the farm. It may have been an odd circumstance. Usually, someone picked them up, or they were hauled off to the slaughter house, and someone else did the dirty work.

Once, I was given the duty of getting rid of the guts left over from the pig, where the guts are piled on a sled behind a tractor, and you drag them off to the field to be dumped. I remember once as I was dragging the guts off, they began to slide off the sled, they are kind of bouncy, and I panicked and had to stop and figure out a way to get them back on the sled.

I keep this memory for when I drive by McDonalds to keep me out of there.

Just think about that giant pile of stinkin blubber, all the guts from inside, and imagine for a minute what happens to all of it in the factories. Do you think they dump it in the field somewhere? Think again.

Also, we used to cut the balls off the young male pigs with a sharp knife, literally slicing the bag, removing the balls from the inside, and throwing on some alcohol on the wound, and then letting them go, that was it. Dad always had a hard time getting me to help him and to listen to their screams and all that was just sick. Believe me, they can scream like nothing you ever heard.

I'm not sure what the lizzies will do with us CarpeDiem but am assured there will be lots of screaming.

 

[j0da]

Yeah...I guess that what the Cs said about human parts dipped in vats, experiments on humans, etc should not cause much indignation, considering what you can see in this movie.

I grew up in the country partly, in my grandparents house. There were hens, turkeys, rabbits, a pig and of course a dog. Hens were walking freely at the yard, seeking worms in the grass, rabbits and a pig had big wooden cages with fresh straw. The only stress was occasional visit of sneaky weasel, which somehow always found it's way into the cage and of course - inevitable death brough by my grandfather. It was always quick and far away from where other animals could see it. And food was delicious. Well, it isn't anymore...

 

[dant]

I think the message is very clear: "If you play in the dirt, you will get dirty!"

In other words, we (1-4D) are very deeply entrenched into the physical and
so as long as we desire the physical we must consume the physical in order
to remain in the physical? Does it make any difference if we eat say a rock,
or a plant, an animal, a human being, or if it were possible a physical 4D
being? Do any of the 1-4D "suffer" or "scream" if we were to "kill it" in order
to consume the carcass for its nutrients so that we remain "alive" in the physical?

Do you not notice that it is quite possible for a 1D to kill a 2D, a 2D to kill a
3D, a 3D to kill a (physical) 4D entity and in no particular order? Of course
we have no data regarding 4D beings but it seems to be quite possible?

Seems to me, that death is a natural process and is a consequence of being
of the physical, and by our free-will choices, osit. I also think that it is wholly
subjective to think that consuming of the physical is evil in and of itself, i.e.
causing death of another entity (1-4D) is not necessarily evil, but a reminder
that we are physical beings that require nourishment and that means we must
feed the body in order to remain in the body.

So we are somewhat in a quandary when it comes to deciding what to consume
in order to stay alive. So what are the right choices we can make, or a "humane",
moral, or ethically sound choice when deciding to kill a 1-4D entity for it's carcass
to order to remain in the physical (i.e to stay alive)? Who is to decide for whom and
by what right? What difference is it that we consume a carcass or to consume a live
entity (sushi anyone)? Do we believe that we must kill the entity as quickly as possible
because it is the "humane", "morally correct", or "ethically correct" thing to do simply
because we (who have empathy?) desire to to reduce suffering for suffering's sake or
is it simply because we cannot bear to hear the screams, the agony, the suffering that
death causes, so death must be done as quickly as possible? I do recall that for a 4D
STS entity, death is a "natural consequence" and requires no emotion/empathy at all
and it is "business as usual" and it is a cyclical harvest. Just like human beings do when
harvesting the "bounty" at the right season so that we can "enjoy" the "fruits" of our labor?

OSIT.

 

[OCKHAM]

Well Dant, you make a good argument so let’s discuss it.

In other words, we (1-4D) are very deeply entrenched into the physical andso as long as we desire the physical we must consume the physical in order to remain in the physical?

Yes, agreed, physical plants. We have to make choices. If we keep upgrading density on a massive scale, we may be next on the menu. Is that ok with you?

Does it make any difference if we eat say a rock, or a plant, an animal, a human being, or if it were possible a physical 4D being?

IMHO, yes. 4-D training? As for eating 4-D, that cannot be answered.

Do any of the 1-4D "suffer" or "scream" if we were to "kill it" in order to consume the carcass for its nutrients so that we remain "alive" in the physical?

I would seem to suggest they suffer more as you go up the scale to 3-D. 4-D unknown.

Do you not notice that it is quite possible for a 1D to kill a 2D, a 2D to kill a 3D, a 3D to kill a (physical) 4D entity and in no particular order? Of course we have no data regarding 4D beings but it seems to be quite possible?

Anything is possible. Remember, we are supposedly more advanced than 1D-2D. Wouldn’t that account for some discernment about humaneness and respect?

I also think that it is wholly subjective to think that consuming of the physical is evil in and of itself,

Consuming of the physical plants is not evil. You seem to lump all into one. Obviously, everything we eat and consume intentionally or not has an overall effect in the system.

So we are somewhat in a quandary when it comes to deciding what to consume in order to stay alive. So what are the right choices we can make, or a "humane", moral, or ethically sound choice when deciding to kill a 1-4D entity for it's carcass to order to remain in the physical (i.e to stay alive)?

Are you lumping all physical things into carcasses? Well, staying alive is one thing, and starving is another, so these decisions are difficult, no one said it would be easy.

Who is to decide for whom and by what right? What difference is it that we consume a carcass or to consume a live entity (sushi anyone)?

I’m not sure if anyone should decide for someone else once grown, and you ask a difficult question here. If there is no difference between all entities, then why don’t we eat ourselves?

Do we believe that we must kill the entity as quickly as possible because it is the "humane", "morally correct", or "ethically correct" thing to do simply because we (who have empathy?) desire to to reduce suffering for suffering's sake or is it simply because we cannot bear to hear the screams, the agony, the suffering that death causes, so death must be done as quickly as possible?

Only if when you feel the kill, you believe it is something to enjoy or research kill time, etc., would you not want to do it quickly. Don’t you worry about the psychological ramifications in the mind? Once you begin to abuse the power, what is to stop you?

Another point to make is, if we do not care about the suffering, even for the bug, and we progress up the density scale in consumption, what is to stop us from eating humans? Can you fathom this idea as satisfactory for 4-D enlightenment?

I do recall that for a 4D STS entity, death is a "natural consequence" and requires no emotion/empathy at all and it is "business as usual" and it is a cyclical harvest. Just like human beings do when harvesting the "bounty" at the right season so that we can "enjoy" the "fruits" of our labor?

It is possible for one to die with no emotions, but it is also possible for one to die unjustly and cry out to live whether it is harvest season or not.

Harvesting the bounty is more about plants than flesh, wouldn’t you agree? It is difficult to make the choices when so many are available and I think that is part of the problem. Animals are abused because there is an enormous market for their meat, if no one ate it, then no market, and the abuse would be less.

If we seek to make a difference for ourselves and others, I tend to believe we must be humane to the life force that begs to live, at least as much as possible, and be aware of the differences between flesh and plant, it is easy to lump it all into one physical density, yet we discern all this, and they cannot, so respect may be a part of a bigger lesson that must be learned.

If we lived as the Indians and kill the buffalo, we are doing it to survive, which is not the same as driving through the pick-up window. It may seem like survival because of the choices made. fwiw

 

[dant]

Well Dant, you make a good argument so let’s discuss it.

In other words, we (1-4D) are very deeply entrenched into the physical and so as long as we desire the physical we must consume the physical in order to remain in the physical?

Yes, agreed, physical plants. We have to make choices. If we keep upgrading density on a massive scale, we may be next on the menu. Is that ok with you?

But why stop at plants at all? Isn't all densities from 1D through 4D "fair game"?
In answer to your question, we are food in more ways than we can enumerate, yes?

Does it make any difference if we eat say a rock, or a plant, an animal, a human being, or if it were possible a physical 4D being?

IMHO, yes. 4-D training? As for eating 4-D, that cannot be answered.

Why yes? On what basis or general rule does this apply? Not sure what you
mean by: "4D=training". Understand 4D, not enough data.

Do any of the 1-4D "suffer" or "scream" if we were to "kill it" in order to consume the carcass for its nutrients so that we remain "alive" in the physical?

I would seem to suggest they suffer more as you go up the scale to 3-D. 4-D unknown.

What data do can you provide to prove this? I seem to recall that there is much more
"suffering" at the lower densities than at the higher densities even though there is supposedly
much less consciousness? Isn't that the opposite of what you are saying?

What would happen, if the BBM were to be pulverized (not considering life already on the planet),
do you think Earth as a planet would not "suffer" because it is after all, mostly 1D (rocks)?

Do you not notice that it is quite possible for a 1D to kill a 2D, a 2D to kill a 3D, a 3D to kill a (physical) 4D entity and in no particular order? Of course we have no data regarding 4D beings but it seems to be quite possible?

Anything is possible. Remember, we are supposedly more advanced than 1D-2D. Wouldn’t that account for some discernment about humaneness and respect?

But what do you mean by "humanness", and "respect"? As applied to (our) 3D standards? So are you
saying that being a knocker is "humane" because it is to humane to bash the cow's brains in just before
slitting it's throat while being processed for its meat? What about those "farms" that raises cows or chickens
in high density cages or pens and fed a hormone "diet" because there are a billion humans to be fed? Should
it be more humane or respectful to raise cows or chickens in a "nice comfortable environmental setting"
even though they are destined to be consumed every single day? But according to the C's, our fates are
just as bad when these 4D STS beings are coming after us? Why should we think we are special than our
2D or 1D "friends"? Is it because the same thing we do to others is being done to US by 4D beings and this is inhumane?

I also think that it is wholly subjective to think that consuming of the physical is evil in and of itself,

Consuming of the physical plants is not evil. You seem to lump all into one. Obviously, everything we eat and consume intentionally or not has an overall effect in the system.

Why stop at plants? What is the "rule" here?

Carcass = something killed, so I am liberally applying the term "carcass" in a general sense
as if to a "lifeless body", a "shell", something left behind of which the soul/consciousness has
returned to 5D.

Funny at that though, that "killing" a plant still has "life" within such as bacteria, microbes, and
so on. Still, if I were chewing on a piece of lettuce at each bite, would the lettuce feel suffering?
This reminds me of Ray Bradbury's Sci-Fi short stories regarding a rose in the garden being cut
as it screams in suffering.

So we are somewhat in a quandary when it comes to deciding what to consume in order to stay alive. So what are the right choices we can make, or a "humane", moral, or ethically sound choice when deciding to kill a 1-4D entity for it's carcass to order to remain in the physical (i.e to stay alive)?

Are you lumping all physical things into carcasses? Well, staying alive is one thing, and starving is another, so these decisions are difficult, no one said it would be easy.

Yes, carcass as a general term, see above. Of course it is not easy, which is
why I posted this response in this thread. But perhaps there is a way out, a
fruit or a "magic pill" with water that meets our bodily needs or perhaps we
understand the general reason why we are here and should try to learn all the
lessons of 3D and advance?

Who is to decide for whom and by what right? What difference is it that we consume a carcass or to consume a live entity (sushi anyone)?

I’m not sure if anyone should decide for someone else once grown, and you ask a difficult question here. If there is no difference between all entities, then why don’t we eat ourselves?

No? Poeple give food to people all the time and most do not always question
its source! Anyone remember the movie: "Fried green tomatoes"?

As for eating ourselves? I am not sure if anyone has tried that in all of human
history at least not self-awares. I have, however seen people chew on their fingernails
or a rip off a dead piece of skin, chew it, and swallow it. But somehow it is not the same thing. eww.

Do we believe that we must kill the entity as quickly as possible because it is the "humane", "morally correct", or "ethically correct" thing to do simply because we (who have empathy?) desire to to reduce suffering for suffering's sake or is it simply because we cannot bear to hear the screams, the agony, the suffering that death causes, so death must be done as quickly as possible?

Only if when you feel the kill, you believe it is something to enjoy or research kill time, etc., would you not want to do it quickly. Don’t you worry about the psychological ramifications in the mind? Once you begin to abuse the power, what is to stop you?

Another point to make is, if we do not care about the suffering, even for the bug, and we progress up the density scale in consumption, what is to stop us from eating humans? Can you fathom this idea as satisfactory for 4-D enlightenment?

There are many hunters today that hunt whatever crawls on this Earth. But to each their own. Some pay
respect to nature and do this strictly for food, others do it for pure sport (and not necessairly for food, but
a trophy, thus perhaps feeding their own ego), others do it out of hatred of a species or a race (genocide),
other still for the morbid reasons to see and watch suffering until it dies, and I am sure the list goes on an
on, too long to enumerate. When does one recognize that one is being abusing when one does not understand
or care to understand if offered to learn the truth?

Nothing can stop us from eating other humans (See: Donner party, or Jeffery Dahmer) other than the law if
caught and enforced. But here is the point: read the story of the Donner party and what if YOU were a member
of that party? A dead human body is but an empty shell - long dead and your life hangs in the balance. What
then?

Eating a human carcass blocks one from being a 4D candidate? Is there any data to support or refute such
a claim?

I do recall that for a 4D STS entity, death is a "natural consequence" and requires no emotion/empathy at all and it is "business as usual" and it is a cyclical harvest. Just like human beings do when harvesting the "bounty" at the right season so that we can "enjoy" the "fruits" of our labor?

It is possible for one to die with no emotions, but it is also possible for one to die unjustly and cry out to live whether it is harvest season or not.

Harvesting the bounty is more about plants than flesh, wouldn’t you agree? It is difficult to make the choices when so many are available and I think that is part of the problem. Animals are abused because there is an enormous market for their meat, if no one ate it, then no market, and the abuse would be less.

If we seek to make a difference for ourselves and others, I tend to believe we must be humane to the life force that begs to live, at least as much as possible, and be aware of the differences between flesh and plant, it is easy to lump it all into one physical density, yet we discern all this, and they cannot, so respect may be a part of a bigger lesson that must be learned.

If we lived as the Indians and kill the buffalo, we are doing it to survive, which is not the same as driving through the pick-up window. It may seem like survival because of the choices made. fwiw

You use the word: "unjustly" as if there is some kind of justice to be served? May I ask who
will "serve justice" for you? Hello (I hear a reverberating echo....)?

Did you not notice that "bounty" is quoted? Why is that so? The harvest as quoted in the bible
regarding the last days refers to "the harvesting of souls and of the human bodies", isn't this so?

You seem to miss the point that harvesting is not restricted to just plants. It also refers to "anything
that grows", that that can mean bacteria (as in yogurt), plants, fruits, pigs, goats, cattle, ... and then
extend this to 3D, humans, .... and possibly other lifeforms (4D?) that we don't even know about
which may include greys, nephilims, all that died in the great battle and you can be sure that all of
"empty shells" left around the battle fields would be eaten and/or picked up and thrown into the vat?

As for over-eating of animals, what about plants and "rocks". Perhaps we are abusing from greatest to
least and in the following order: 1D, then 2D, and then maybe 3D? Isn't that just about "everything" in
the BBM, including the water we drink and the air we breathe?

 

[Tigersoap]

Nothing can stop us from eating other humans (See: Donner party, or Jeffery Dahmer) other than the law if caught and enforced. But here is the point: read the story of the Donner party and what if YOU were a member
of that party? A dead human body is but an empty shell - long dead and your life hangs in the balance. What
then?

Eating a human carcass blocks one from being a 4D candidate? Is there any data to support or refute such
a claim?

Hello Dant,

I have the impression that you might forget something here, psychopathy ?

You name J.Dahmer.
The guy was a psychopath. If you don't have a conscience nothing will prevent you to taste human flesh, not even laws.

I agree that you might see this as just another moralistic taboo but isn't what psychopaths would like you to believe in ?

Even during extreme survival situations, if hunger drives you to forget your consciousness, well maybe you did not have much in the first place osit.

Also it seems that the debate does not take into account that the whole meat industry is driven by profit and as a psychopathic profile as well.
To consume without care for anything beside your own belly.

 

[Adaryn]

Even during extreme survival situations, if hunger drives you to forget your consciousness, well maybe you did not have much in the first place osit.

I don't think it's possible to make such assumptions without having been there in the first place. I don't think anyone can say for sure what they'd do in such a situation.

Also it seems that the debate does not take into account that the whole meat industry is driven by profit and as a psychopathic profile as well. To consume without care for anything beside your own belly.

I agree with this. But these 2 things are not at all the same : someone who has the choice between either eat human dead flesh or die / making an industry and profit out of selling meat of 2d density beings. The second one is totally STS. The 1st one : it depends on the situation and the context…
My 2 cents.

 

[Tigersoap]

I don't think it's possible to make such assumptions without having been there in the first place. I don't think anyone can say for sure what they'd do in such a situation.

Yes, fair enough.
In the same extreme situation I may be driven to do the same, who knows.
But being a vegetarian , I would probably have to lose all my sanity to cross the line.

Still, I don't think that cannibalism should be weighted on this alone.
I know there is always the situation which will determine if it's good or bad but something like that is difficult to digest :P.
I think that the law of three can be distorted and used as a buffer to justify yourself as well.
Who knows what possibilities could have been chosen instead of cannibalism ?
Wasn't it the "easiest" solution taken by a bunch of deviants ?

The movie Alive (where they get stuck in a mountain for weeks, months ?) comes to my mind for example.
Shouldn't they have reacted before and gone themselves look for help instead of waiting ?

Also it seems that the debate does not take into account that the whole meat industry is driven by profit and as a psychopathic profile as well. To consume without care for anything beside your own belly.
I agree with this. But these 2 things are not at all the same : someone who has the choice between either eat human dead flesh or die / making an industry and profit out of selling meat of 2d density beings. The second one is totally STS. The 1st one : it depends on the situation and the context…
My 2 cents.

I bundled up two different things in my post, I did not make clear that the two issues were separated. Sorry.

But somehow they are linked imho.
Would we do anything to survive ? Aren't we guilty to let these things happen although alternatives (Either you eat meat or not) can be found ?
When do we put our conscience aside to satisfy the body ?
We're STS, but do we have to follow this to the letter or is there free-will coming into play concerning these matters ? I think there is but I may be wrong and running a program.

 

[OCKHAM]

But why stop at plants at all? Isn't all densities from 1D through 4D "fair game"?
In answer to your question, we are food in more ways than we can enumerate, yes?

Don’t you think our connection to earth has lessons? This may be a lesson we must learn about life and that earth can only provide it with balance, and that balance has to do with what we eat, and how we treat life in general. But as you say, we are food in many ways, agreed.

It does make a difference what we eat, I don’t thinks rocks taste very well, and my teeth are such bad shape, I wouldn’t last a day. I guess you are trying to say that the planet is all food, including plants, rocks, people, and subjecting dimensional food, which in one aspect may be true, but that does not mean we should set aside conscience for life and the power of it, and the gift it brings. I don’t know if you could call that a general rule, but maybe discernment about life and the gift of it.

When I said that suffering is suggestively increased by density, you said:

What data do can you provide to prove this? I seem to recall that there is much more "suffering" at the lower densities than at the higher densities even though there is supposedly much less consciousness? Isn't that the opposite of what you are saying?

What would happen, if the BBM were to be pulverized (not considering life already on the planet),
do you think Earth as a planet would not "suffer" because it is after all, mostly 1D (rocks)?

I have no data, and there seems to be no data either way. You recall your data? I do think the Earth would suffer, but we are both subjecting too much on this one.

Concerning humaneness, do you not think being humane to lower density life is part of respect to life? I don’t think the guy who knocks the cow in the head is performing humaneness. So you said:

But according to the C's, our fates are just as bad when these 4D STS beings are coming after us? Why should we think we are special than our 2D or 1D "friends"? Is it because the same thing we do to others is being done to US by 4D beings and this is inhumane?

I agree, our fate could be just as bad, but that doesn’t make it acceptable. We are NOT more special than our friends the animals, I never meant to relay that impression. We are more partners of earth which brings up another question, why are they here? Only to eat? Ugh. Well, obviously we learned over time that pretty much everything here can be eaten, so this brings up other observations, such as obesity and heart disease, plants don’t seen to cause this problem.

When does one recognize that one is being abusing when one does not understand
or care to understand if offered to learn the truth?

Maybe never, this is not an argument.

Nothing can stop us from eating other humans (See: Donner party, or Jeffery Dahmer) other than the law if caught and enforced. But here is the point: read the story of the Donner party and what if YOU were a member of that party? A dead human body is but an empty shell - long dead and your life hangs in the balance. What then?

Eating a human carcass blocks one from being a 4D candidate? Is there any data to support or refute such a claim?

How can I be a member of a murdering party that I refuse? Ok, I have lost my mind, and am now a psychopath, yum, yum. If I was not the actual one that removed the life of the now lifeless carcass, and I was starving, as a psychopath, I would probably eat it. But being a psychopath, it might not matter in the mind of the observer. I think the action related to the removal is key and the enforcement as you mention.

Becoming a 4D candidate may require much discernment about many things we do not yet understand. Whether someone had to eat a human carcass or not would depend on the circumstances and whether or not one was starving. I never said it blocks candidacy, I was suggesting discernment about life and what is to be eaten which is part of knowledge attainment. If we are as the beast, and act like one, I have a hard time seeing advancement and those who cannot stop, are more along the lines of bad overall food.

Ok, now we seem to get lost in our conversation some, so let’s try to bring this down to home a little here so we don’t get our heads popped by big foot.

Originally you said:

I do recall that for a 4D STS entity, death is a "natural consequence" and requires no emotion/empathy at all and it is "business as usual" and it is a cyclical harvest. Just like human beings do when harvesting the "bounty" at the right season so that we can "enjoy" the "fruits" of our labor?

Which by the way, here you are using C data as seemingly fact, and we should know better. But I replied and said:

It is possible for one to die with no emotions, but it is also possible for one to die unjustly and cry out to live whether it is harvest season or not.

Harvesting the bounty is more about plants than flesh, wouldn’t you agree? It is difficult to make the choices when so many are available and I think that is part of the problem. Animals are abused because there is an enormous market for their meat, if no one ate it, then no market, and the abuse would be less.

If we seek to make a difference for ourselves and others, I tend to believe we must be humane to the life force that begs to live, at least as much as possible, and be aware of the differences between flesh and plant, it is easy to lump it all into one physical density, yet we discern all this, and they cannot, so respect may be a part of a bigger lesson that must be learned.

If we lived as the Indians and kill the buffalo, we are doing it to survive, which is not the same as driving through the pick-up window. It may seem like survival because of the choices made. fwiw

Then you immediately reply with this:

You use the word: "unjustly" as if there is some kind of justice to be served? May I ask who will "serve justice" for you? Hello (I hear a reverberating echo....)?

Did you not notice that "bounty" is quoted? Why is that so? The harvest as quoted in the bible
regarding the last days refers to "the harvesting of souls and of the human bodies", isn't this so?

You seem to miss the point that harvesting is not restricted to just plants. It also refers to "anything that grows", that that can mean bacteria (as in yogurt), plants, fruits, pigs, goats, cattle, ... and then extend this to 3D, humans, .... and possibly other lifeforms (4D?) that we don't even know about which may include greys, nephilims, all that died in the great battle and you can be sure that all of "empty shells" left around the battle fields would be eaten and/or picked up and thrown into the vat?

As for over-eating of animals, what about plants and "rocks". Perhaps we are abusing from greatest to least and in the following order: 1D, then 2D, and then maybe 3D? Isn't that just about "everything" in the BBM, including the water we drink and the air we breathe?

I am not asking anyone to serve justice for me in that context.

So the knockers are you’re friends? I have a hard time believing that. We must distinguish between the cause of death and the aftermath, when all life force energy is absent. The food you refer to is lifeless, but removing it, or the act, is where the balance or justice sits that alters the course.

I am aware that harvesting can be associated with the end of times, but I was not aware that you think it is a good thing. Is that what you think? Let’s get on the same page here if possible.

I suppose there is a good harvest possible, but at the same time, I suppose there is one that is not a good harvest. Will we be able to discern the difference?

You also suggest as we move up the scale in consumption that it might possibly be less harmful, or less abusive. I think we now need to do more research to back up either of these claims, one way or another.

You do also raze me a little hard about justice, I think we both are about the same age, and guys like us may seem to want to raze each other a little more, which is ok, we’re big boys. osit

 

[OCKHAM]

One more idea to mention here, dant.

In our discussion about whether to eat meat or not, what if eating meat [flesh] is a case of the integral lie defined by Boris Mouravieff, p164 G1?

Let’s imagine for a moment. Go back in time and imagine that no one had ever eaten meat before, and you were asked to eat it. What would the reply be? [What, are you crazy, you want me to eat flesh, how disgusting!] This would be the most likely response especially if this person had only eaten fruits and vegetables for hundreds of years.

From the forced human habit of eating meat, humans have gotten used to lying to themselves about their habits, and the existence of them along with the consequences, in turn, losing all sense of truth. They actually have the intent to deceive themselves, do they not?

This is one of the reasons I cannot open up the earth for harvest of life by us, as in consumption of anything consumable. Everything is not fair game. osit

 

[nf3]

Let’s imagine for a moment....This is one of the reasons I cannot open up...

Hi Ockham,
I quoted your post this way not to be insulting, but to hopefully illustrate the direction you went with your argument: from imagination to conclusion. Just something to think about.

As for eating meat, my body does not function properly without it. I have tried. Right now I am STS and if I hope to become STO I need to serve the universe the best I can in the here and now, and I can't do that if I am weak and fatigued 24/7. FWIW.

 

[Beau]

Yup, I can't function very well without meat in my everyday diet. I was always sort of confused by the vegetarians anyway, plants can feel pain just as easily as animals. If one chooses to eat a veg-only diet because of preference, that's perfectly fine, but when people get all self-righteous towards meat-eaters I just have to shake my head.

 

[OCKHAM]

I would not want to leave the impression of being self righteous about someone who requires it at all. Habits are part of each unique pathos. Feeling better is important and could require many paths. I wouldn't want to imply that if someone had to eat meat, that something was wrong with them.

Please also know I was not jumping from imagination to conclusion in the example. I was setting a context about habits developing over time. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

As for eating meat, my body does not function properly without it. I have tried. Right now I am STS and if I hope to become STO I need to serve the universe the best I can in the here and now, and I can't do that if I am weak and fatigued 24/7. FWIW.

It's true that some people cannot thrive without eating animal proteins. But when you say you tried without, what was your diet like? I'm sure you know that, but being a vegetarian is not only about cutting out meat (fish, poultry, etc.) but to properly compensate, as your body has been used to have 'easy' proteins. Because meat eating is also a question of convenience, isn't it? Wherever you go, you can eat in a restaurant, snack, have a sandwich, it's easy to cook, no need to find recipes, etc. whereas being vegetarian can prove tricky in a lot of situations.

I'm a vegetarian (as is my husband) and most of our friends and family aren't. I don't shake my head at them (no need to worry, Beau ;)), I in no way feel superior to them, don't feel disgusted by their diet, and I eat at the same table. They do what they want, I do the same.
But at that table, the only ones having really thought of why they eat the way they eat, are us vegetarians. I know because we discussed about it more than once.

Most people (and I'm not saying it is your case, mind you) don't know why they eat the way they do (meat and the rest). They just do. That, to me, is mechanical. Just like a vegetarian would be if he didn't know why he is a vegetarian.
I strive to know why I do everything that I do, and I could no longer justify my meat-eating habits. I now thrive on what I eat, but I admit that I had to look and find out what was the best for me. There have been adjustments. It would be easier to just eat meat or fish, it's true, and I admit I used to like the taste of it. But being a vegetarian is probably the closest thing to selflessness I did in my selfish life (although we could argue til the end of the night that nothing is ever selfless ;)).

As for 'We're STS, we cannot do anything about that, we need meat', i do not agree. Isn't it using STS condition as a buffer to avoid thinking about one's behaviour? Like in "Oh, yeah, i emotionally hurt people around me all the time, but you know, i'm just STS, what' you're gonna do??". I know that there is no need to try and be STO when we're still in 3D, but surely, just doing something mechanically isn't the way forward.

Maybe the issue is not whether you eat meat or not, but why do you eat the way that you do.