Meat, anyone?

[Beau]

I figured I'd get a few responses to the opposite of what I said, incredulous or not. ;) Of course their are qualitative differences, I was not trying to say that the pain that a plant feels is the same as the pain of a being with a central nervous system feels. In fact, it IS quite different.

Let me also say that when I wrote that a carrot screams, I did not mean it to be taken as though the carrot releases anything verbal at all. Quite the contrary. Plants do not feel pain the same way as we do, but they do sense injury to their body and can communicate it to other plants by releasing certain chemicals, which the other plants can interpret as a message. Thus plants do feel injuries and can talk with other plants but their medium of communication is not sound waves it is through chemicals like our sense of smell.

Plants also respond to their environment, thus showing that they do have an awareness, even if much different than 3D awareness. Plants have been known to respond in quality to certain music, to being talked to, and to the relative mood of its area.

There once was a famous experiment whereby7 people walked into a room where there was a big plant that was wired up to a lie detector. One of the people had a knife and cut some parts of the plant. Then later when the people were brought before the plant again, the lie detector gave a violent leap in its readings when the person with the knife was brought before it. The same experiment was done with trees and in all cases the same result.

And, people who have lost limbs have still reported feeling pain in that area after the fact. So all is not so cut and dry.

Also there is this from the C's. My feeling is that one should tailor their diet around that which is best for them i.e. blood type, age, etc...

10-23-94
Q: (L) Is a vegetarian style of eating good for one?
A: Not usually.
Q: (L) What did human beings eat before the Fall?
A: Vegetarian.
Q: (L) So, until we go through the transition we are not really
designed to be vegetarian?
A: Correct.

Laura got the C's quote I was looking for, so I'll not paste that one in as well.

 

[Laura]

I would also like to point out that a whole raft of "abductees" and "contactees" claim that little gray aliens just LOVE us and prove it by instructing us to become vegetarians and stop smoking!

Yep! They really want to "serve humanity."

 

[Mikey]

Some plants grow fruits for the sole purpose of distributing the seeds by means of being eaten by others. So, it seems to me that in this case consuming can be an appreciated service to others.

 

[Z...]

The screams of the carrots echo through my mind.
I’m sorry beau, but literal screaming carrots - really?
Has science somehow recorded this?

Actually it has.
Not really carrots but plants whose foliage was plucked. And they were also signs of sending distress signals to other plants. I don't remember the details how it was done, and if I manage to find the original text I will post it here.

 

[Z...]

Just saw that beau has answered, I read about the same experiments.

 

[the_hammer]

I too have read about this experiment and they also found that the plant which was hooked up send out the same distress signals when a lumberjack came towards it eventhough he hadn't touched the plant. Wether the experiment is to be trusted -I don't know...

 

[Beau]

I would encourage anyone interested in this subject to read a few books written by biologist Brian J. Ford, who investigates the myth of plant communication. One is Sensitive souls, senses and communication in plants, animals and microbes - link and the other is Secret language of life, how animals and plants feel and communicate - link.

Also, Mythbusters has done a few spots on plant awareness as well.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Plants also respond to their environment, thus showing that they do have an awareness, even if much different than 3D awareness. Plants have been known to respond in quality to certain music, to being talked to, and to the relative mood of its area.

...

And, people who have lost limbs have still reported feeling pain in that area after the fact. So all is not so cut and dry.

I threw in "paralysis" as an example without thinking. I think analgia is a better example for the point I tried to make, that it is possible to have awareness and not "pain". In analgia, the person suffering from it does not even know what "pain" feels like. As such, they are unaware of minor injuries and discomforts, so they're frequently bruised and cut and don't even realize it. They can even die from minor injuries because they don't realize there's a problem. So, at least for humans/animals, pain is a subjective state that has to do with our nervous system. May be different for plants and 1D of course.

I agree with the blood-type diet idea. Not eating meat for moral reasons is just convincing yourself of your own holiness. But being aware of the suffering in everything you do is the way to go!

 

[Youngfox]

Beau, I hope you realize I was just kidding around with your statement.

I did not intend to insult or portray ignorance on my part.
I have read studies similar/same as those you refer to and have read the various Cassiopeia quotes posted. I am afraid that my more infantile side found the “screaming carrot” funny. ( I recall an old Crumb cartoon with a screaming carrot on a Janis Joplin album cover)
Any life form terrorized by another is no laughing matter. I am sorry I made light of it.

I just cannot bring myself to eat flesh after what I have witnessed and honestly I wish I could just eat sunshine like that fellow I read about a while back who made that incredulous claim.

If I raised my own animals and gave them a respectful quality of life before their quick and as painless as possible death I could perhaps once again enjoy my formerly beloved Chicken Curry… perhaps. Then there is the matter of steroids, antibiotics, BGH, etc in the factory flesh supply.
I have enough trouble dealing with my inferior genetics to have to deal with that crap in my system.

The only flesh available to me in my current situation, (location, financial) is from these terror factories I have seen and I just cannot support that cycle.

Then again with this logic I suppose I could eat my cats as I have loved them and catered to their every whim giving them what I can only hope is a quality existence.

I suppose I shall continue to get my iron from various legumes, veggies and supplements hopefully retaining enough strength and brain mass to avoid those monstrous things that would love to snack on my tasty vegetarian butt.

As Harrison injects the thought of not eating flesh because of some grandiose sense of holiness I really do not feel that to be the case.
Although I tap some thoughts quickly and look back with an eye toward revision, I don’t think I am quite that deluded.
I really hate it when fellow Vegs get on their holier than thou stumps and finger wag.

Being aware of the true terror of our situation I just hope to reduce my “terror footprint” so to speak.
Who knows maybe that’s yet another sacred cow that I must slaughter but as with all others I will cross that bridge when I come to it, just not now.

Perhaps one day I will invite some folks over for holy cow burgers, but not today.

 

[Beau]

I did not intend to insult or portray ignorance on my part.

I wasn't insulted at all. I pretty much expected a "taken aback" response by what I posted.

The only flesh available to me in my current situation, (location, financial) is from these terror factories I have seen and I just cannot support that cycle.

That is totally understandable and a stance that I see no problem with. But we must remember that in our STS world we are completely surrounded by suffering. It's pretty much impossible to avoid, and anyone who thinks they have is deluding themselves.

 

[Youngfox]

I am sorry I have popped in and out and rambled without acknowledging this fact.

“But we must remember that in our STS world we are completely surrounded by suffering. It's pretty much impossible to avoid, and anyone who thinks they have is deluding themselves.” -Beau

I cannot agree more. Suffering is on the wind and in the water.
In a way is this whole density not a school of suffering?
I am particularly fond of LKJ’s
sig;

“He who learns must suffer And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget Falls drop by drop upon the heart, And in our own despair, against our will, Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. -- Agamemnon; Aeschylus”

 

[Third_Density_Resident]

Ultimately, I hate the whole concept of having to eat to survive - it's rather a disgusting thing, but I'm a bit odd, I realize - I keep hoping to wake up one day and be photosynthetic, still hasn't happened yet, though..

I don't think you're odd at all. I go through moments of disgust about eating as well. One day it just dawned on me how ridiculous/"primitive" it is that humans talk AND eat with one orifice -- their mouth! I'd love to be photosynthetic, because not only would it cut down on living costs, it would also save a lot of time. I'm one of those people who eats to live; I don't live to eat, and I'm sure most people on these boards are the same. I find that preparing meals sometimes can be a real chore, and wish I didn't have to eat at all.

Being aware of the true terror of our situation I just hope to reduce my “terror footprint” so to speak.
Who knows maybe that’s yet another sacred cow that I must slaughter but as with all others I will cross that bridge when I come to it, just not now.

I think you make an interesting point here about reducing your "terror footprint". While acknowledging that 3D existence is inextricably linked to pain and suffering on many different levels, I don't think this is in any way an excuse to just forget our humanity. Sure, we'll all experience pain and cause pain, but it is entirely possible to reduce it. For people who are striving to become STO, I think that's a very important point.

Related to all this, I'm going to quote a couple of paragraphs from the "Pleiadians" from Barbara Marciniak's "Bringers of the Dawn". It supports the notion of suffering and that everyone has different dietary needs, but also acknowledges that this suffering can be greatly reduced.

The human body is evolving and changing. It may believe that it needs a certain nutritional combination because this is what you have been taught. Ideally at this point, however, you will forget what you have been taught. You will listen to your body and let your body tell you what it wants. We would guess that many of you in the last year have changed the things you want to eat. You no longer feel comfortable eating what you used to eat because the vibration within certain food is so intense that it is not compatible with you. In the meat industry as you know it, the cattle, pigs, and chickens are not fed food. They live in small compartments, and many of them do not see the light of day. Many of them defecate on top of one another because they live in layers of small metal boxes. This is how they are raised. They are fed steroids and antibiotics -- things other than food. They are not raised with love. When they are taken to slaughter, they are also not killed with love. So you are ingesting this vibration.

Remember that all things exist as a vibration. Animals were put upon the planet to be companions for you, to live on the land, and to feed you and shelter you if necessary. This was to be done with love. If you live on a farm and raise your own chickens and pigs, and if you feed them food, and if, when it comes time to bring them to slaughter, you do it with compassion and love, then it is fine. You give quality of life to the animals, and then the animals in turn recycle themselves to give you love and quality of life. That is the ideal. That was the reality for a long time upon this planet. It is not the reality any longer. Be aware of the vibration within things.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

I think you make an interesting point here about reducing your "terror footprint". While acknowledging that 3D existence is inextricably linked to pain and suffering on many different levels, I don't think this is in any way an excuse to just forget our humanity. Sure, we'll all experience pain and cause pain, but it is entirely possible to reduce it. For people who are striving to become STO, I think that's a very important point.

I totally agree with you and Youngfox about reducing the "terror footprint". And to me, this has nothing to do with either being self-righteous or convinced of one's superiority/holiness nor denying one's condition as 3D STS being.

I was wondering why we sometimes react so strongly about something so basic as diet and
I thought that this quote by Mouravieff found in his book Gnosis II was really interesting :

Even when we finally and definitely admit his existence within us, at least
theoretically, and when we begin to understand the technique of Salvation,
we do not in general feel any natural attraction towards this 'I' even though
it is our own self. In most cases, having reached this point we will hesitate
to renounce our habitual identification which muddles our Personality
with the consciousness of our body. This is the sense of so-called reality
that, inspired by the 'I' of the body, uses fear, hunger and sex as the great
motivators that express themselves through an infinity of masks to distract
our Personality from the 'I' that is truly real. In this situation, the Personality
finds that the old wine is best.

 

[Cyre2067]

Vegetables probably do not feel pain "in the human animal" sense, but it's not a good idea to project our "standards" onto them. Relative to their level of existence and/or consciousness, their pain might be very great indeed.

Plants do not feel pain the same way as we do, but they do sense injury to their body and can communicate it to other plants by releasing certain chemicals, which the other plants can interpret as a message. Thus plants do feel injuries and can talk with other plants but their medium of communication is not sound waves it is through chemicals like our sense of smell.

...

There once was a famous experiment whereby7 people walked into a room where there was a big plant that was wired up to a lie detector. One of the people had a knife and cut some parts of the plant. Then later when the people were brought before the plant again, the lie detector gave a violent leap in its readings when the person with the knife was brought before it. The same experiment was done with trees and in all cases the same result.

Very Interesting. Never heard of plants communicating via chemical release. That certainly puts a whole new perspective on things.

And that bit from Marciniak was interesting, that describes the dietary adjustments I've been making to a T. Fun lessons, no?

 

[OCKHAM]

Looks like it was good for me to shut up for a couple of days. Thanks dant for replying, I think the more we think about it critically, the better.

'Humanness', might be a subjective 3D term, as if to imply we (as 3D STS) correctly know what 'human empathy/compassion/ethics/morality' really is, and can correctly apply this term to any density including our own? Seems strange to me, because so far, I haven't seen any objective results with the application of this term as it is applied. Perhaps we are deluding ourselves with this 'humanness' term in a self-righteous way blinding ourselves to what nature is telling us?

I think this would be very easy to do. osit

Also you said: Does everyone have their own ideas what "humane" means from their
own perspective?

I think everyone does have a different perspective, and maybe the more these are attuned to knowledge and that it is shared mutually, the better. This might allow us to evolve better and healthier, osis. [or so it seems]

To answer many of the questions you added, the responses here have done well. I agree with those who feel we should reduce what is perceived as a terror footprint but also realize that we have evolved habitually.

I also get a sense this statement by the C’s has a bit of logic to it.

10-23-94
Q: (L) Is a vegetarian style of eating good for one?
A: Not usually.
Q: (L) What did human beings eat before the Fall?
A: Vegetarian.
Q: (L) So, until we go through the transition we are not really
designed to be vegetarian?
A: Correct.

I think there must be many people who could not survive without eating meat because they have ate it for centuries and its need is carried forward genetically somehow. I have tried to evolve away from this as much as possible, but I still eat fish which is hard to give up.

Ultimately, I hate the whole concept of having to eat to survive..

I kind of feel this way also about it, photo style would be great, especially if you could feel it! The blood type diet also makes sense for those who can attune that knowledge.

As for beau’s screaming plant, I would have to agree with his explanation in the context in which he describes it, with the experiment and all. Plants communicating makes much sense, there is also the kirlian photography work that was done showing plants and humans emanating.

I hope I never actually hear a plant scream, I will immediately stop eating them. :)