Merged threads on Illuminati - Hidden Hand - Ruiner

[anart]

First, there is a reason this post is in 'Baked Noodles'.

Second:

You seem to be disregarding the whole message just because it was posted on a website you believe to be disinfo.
That's not a very STO way of doing things. I would advise you to read the whole text before judging it's validity.
Actually, all your above questions are answered in the link I provided.

You appear to have a misunderstanding of STO - what it is and what it implies. Regarding your above paragraph, writing that 'this isn't a very STO way of doing things' makes little sense. There is a Cassiopaean Glossary that might help with your understanding of certain terms and concepts. Hope this helps.

 

[Mountain Crown]

Hi Eboard10,

No offense, but your posts don't come accross as sharing, but as a defense of a strong acceptance of this Hidden Hand character. You are certainly entitled to your belief, but after asking forum members to consider this stuff you defend it against the honest responses given to you as if we just don't get it. That's not sharing, but more like feeding fwiw.

Your replies to my previous post (which dealt with the "extreme similarity" to the Cs) are all based on accepting HH's writing as true. This isn't critical thinking, it resembles more the kind of reaction given when a sacred cow is being challenged.

It has been made very clear by the Cs that knowledge precedes love, and that what we think of love is possession. To preach love without emphasizing knowledge is a clear example of not resonating with the Cs. If you are aware of the central position given to the pursuit of objective knowledge by Laura, you wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that this stuff was so much like the Cassiopaean Material.

Baked noodles isn't trash - that is usually thrown out - but is there for learning and amusement.

 

[Eboard10]

Eboard10, no offence intended, but it has become apparant what you wanted from others and that you are so identified (although you are cautious to try and appear not to be) that you are already defending stuff that can only remain 'up in the air' for now.

I recommend taking a break for a moment and check out something that might aid you in gaining some perspective.

First of all I would like to say that English is not my mother tongue, therefore I apologize if I made myself look like someone who is desperately trying to make you believe what Hidden Hands says, and that I'm too emotional about his message (which I am not).

Buddy, you are correct in saying that we cannot be 100% certain of what we're being told or what we know and all that goes behind it.
As I said before, when I said I believe it to be the truth, I wasn't really meaning that. It's just that I don't use the word truth to literally mean 100% universal truth because of course we won't experience that until we become at one with God, which means that we could never use the word truth or even know it as a matter of fact.

I would only like to add that I what I meant when saying that I feel disappointed with some of the members is that some seem to find this information disinfo with a subjective perspective and "devaluation of knowledge" etc. These conclusions can only come from people who either haven't actually understood the meaning behind HH words, or who are giving their own subjective interpretation of the info (as I've seen above). If you believe what I'm saying is false than please explain why; I'd very much like to understand your side of things.

 

[1984]

Yes, sorry if I didn't answer correctly.

Actually, our Creator, or Macrocosm did ask for help and allowed Lucifer to interfere with Yahweh's "pet garden" and with us for the whole Grand Cycle of 300,000 years. Hidden Hand explains it very well in the quotes from my first post. Remember that we are Yahweh as he is our Macrocosm.

“If "Yahweh" is a positive polarity entity, how is he "wrathful" and "jealous"?”

Does Yahweh have Free Will? Would you like to think of yourself as reasonably positive? Can you still be wrathful and jealous at times? Is Yahweh a Macrocosm of you?

Eboard10,

Once you read your copy of the Wave series you've ordered, you will be better able to weigh this HH information. As has been mentioned elsewhere in the forum, we strongly discourage folks from reading the C's transcripts singularly and outside of the context provided by Laura's work. It is our experience folks often misinterpret them and tend to project their own ideas, beliefs, and biases onto them.

You are at a disadvantage in discussing the transcripts here until you've read the Wave series, since most here have already read them - this is likely why you are confused about some of the responses you are receiving.

 

[Eboard10]

It has been made very clear by the Cs that knowledge precedes love, and that what we think of love is possession. To preach love without emphasizing knowledge is a clear example of not resonating with the Cs. If you are aware of the central position given to the pursuit of objective knowledge by Laura, you wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that this stuff was so much like the Cassiopaean Material.

As I told you before, when HH and the C's talk about Love (with capital L) they are not referring to our concept of love. I'm quoting the C's so that you might understand what I was trying to explain earlier:

September 9, 1995

Q: (L) There are many teachings that are promulgated that Love is the key, the answer. They say that
illumination and knowledge and what-not can all be achieved through love.

A: The problem is not the term "love," the problem is the interpretation of the term. Those on third
density have a tendency to confuse the issue horribly. After all, they confuse many things as love. When
the actual definition of love as you know it is not correct either. It is not necessarily a feeling that one
has that can also be interpreted as an emotion, but rather, as we have told you before, the essence of light
which is knowledge is love, and this has been corrupted when it is said that love leads to illumination.
Love is Light is Knowledge. Love makes no sense when common definitions are used as they are in
your environment. To love you must know. And to know is to have light. And to have light is to love.
And to have knowledge is to love.

 

[abstract]

and here i was thinking this discussion was over...

we ALREADY told you why we think HH is incorrect. in fact, some of the previous posts on this thread have completely smashed it to pieces, and yet you still defend your viewpoint like a fundamentalist christian who takes the bible literally. what we are trying to tell you is that to find OBJECTIVE KNOWLEDGE, you cannot take anything as bible, you cannot believe anything you see or hear at face value. reality is an illusion, but not all the illusions are visual. some of the illusions in this reality are simply false ideas, false ideas people cling to out of fear or other similar emotions. for instance, being "saved" is a false idea/illusion because free will also gives us RESPONSIBILITY, in other words, you alone are responsible for what you do. finding objective knowledge means admitting that you CHOOSE in every instance, what to believe, what to think, how to act, and no one else. you are letting other people decide for you when you read something like HH and think you have struck gold or something, because THAT IS THE CON. "here's the pot of gold, you found it!"
there's been so many times i've fallen for this, i think we all have at some point believed in something that wasn't 100%

if we are to make any progress as a GROUP at all, we have got to be on the same page with alot of this stuff, it simply won't work if we don't decide as a group what is objective.

 

[Eboard10]

and here i was thinking this discussion was over...

we ALREADY told you why we think HH is incorrect. in fact, some of the previous posts on this thread have completely smashed it to pieces, and yet you still defend your viewpoint like a fundamentalist christian who takes the bible literally. what we are trying to tell you is that to find OBJECTIVE KNOWLEDGE, you cannot take anything as bible, you cannot believe anything you see or hear at face value. reality is an illusion, but not all the illusions are visual. some of the illusions in this reality are simply false ideas, false ideas people cling to out of fear or other similar emotions. for instance, being "saved" is a false idea/illusion because free will also gives us RESPONSIBILITY, in other words, you alone are responsible for what you do. finding objective knowledge means admitting that you CHOOSE in every instance, what to believe, what to think, how to act, and no one else. you are letting other people decide for you when you read something like HH and think you have struck gold or something, because THAT IS THE CON. "here's the pot of gold, you found it!"
there's been so many times i've fallen for this, i think we all have at some point believed in something that wasn't 100%

if we are to make any progress as a GROUP at all, we have got to be on the same page with alot of this stuff, it simply won't work if we don't decide as a group what is objective.

"Deciding what is objective" is a subjective way of doing, don't you realize it?
Anyway, I'll let HH answer for you, as I totally agree with what you're saying and so does he :)

(P.S. please don't think that I blindly believe what he's saying; you should understand this if you've read my previous posts "objectively").

You will never be 'free', for as long as you are incarnating on this planet. The very nature of your being here, is indication of that. There is a reason why you are here, and 'here' is very likely not really where you think 'here' is. How do you become free? By working out where you are, and coming to an understanding, of why you are here. You are fast running out of time to do so, before the coming Harvest. Those that don't make it, will have to repeat the cycle.

There is no "Messiah". Stop looking outside of yourself for 'salvation'.
Is there what you might call a 'Christ Consciousness' alive, then yes, in a manner of speaking. Though not in your 3rd Density (dimensional) awareness.

Believe, or do not believe, I am Divinely indifferent. If my presence here ends up benefiting just one Soul during the process, it will have been worth the effort. I have not asked you to believe, the only thing I have respectfully asked, was that you 'suspend judgment' or hold a 'provisional faith' until the discourse is complete, so that the flow of questions / information remains uninterrupted.

No one is asking you to. Never take what another says to you as "Truth". Your purpose here, is to find your own Truth. Sometimes, others can help you to do so by offering guidance, but for their Truth to become your Truth, it must pass through the test of your discernment. Sit quietly in meditation, and ask the Infinite Creator to guide your path. Meditate upon that which I have shared, and listen to your inner feelings. They are the language of your Soul.

Use all your Negative emotions as they arise, as the tools that they truly are. Train yourself to notice when Negativity arises in you. When you catch yourself projecting a Negative thought, remember that all thought is creative, and ask yourself if that is really what you want to create?
It takes a while to become proficient, but do not give up. Just keep noticing your Negative thought patterns as they arise, and in so doing, simply choose again, and select a response that is more Positive. It is called 'working on yourself', and is the main reason you have chosen to be here right now. To work upon yourself. I wish you well in your transformation process.

What I want, is that my words become a Catalyst for you. That is what we came here to do. If my words cause you, even if for just a short time, to stop for a moment, and evaluate that which you 'think' you already know about the nature of Life, and take for granted as being true (because "everyone else believes it"), then my time will have been well spent. My desire is that you become an Authentic Human Being, thinking, and feeling, and deciding for yourself what "feels" like Truth for you. I wish you well in your endeavors.

That is precisely that way it should be. Again, I would encourage you NOT to just blindly accept what I say as "the truth". It never was my intention that anyone should make such an error in judgment. That is not to say that my words are not True, but that one must weigh them up, meditate upon them, and decide for yourself in the light of your intuition and inner feelings, whether or not these words "feel" True for you.

The only real and lasting Truth, is a 'self-realized' one. Messengers can come and go, and show you Truth until they're blue in the face, but it will not be Your Truth, until you have realized for yourself, deep within the Core of your Being, that it 'feels' True for you.

You should never accept something as true, just because someone tell you it is so. But when your inner voice guides you that a Truth is True, and you feel that old warm feeling of excitement welling up from somewhere deep within, that says "Yes! I knew it!" Hold on to that feeling, (feelings are the language of your Soul) and Guard it carefully, as you can be sure that your newfound beliefs will be challenged in many ways. It is designed this way, to test you. Your Inner Truth must be able to withstand the test of time, and will be given a thorough examination. Hold fast to it, so long as it is what you Know to be True deep within. Allow nothing or no-one 'outside' of you to pull you from your path, no matter how fiercely they contend with you. They are just doing their job, even if they may well not even be 'aware' that this is what they are in fact doing. They are performing an important service to you, and you should be grateful to them for that.

 

[Biomiast]

Eboard, why do you think this is an independent source from Ra material and C's? Couldn't it be someone who brings all those concepts together and add certain things himself? I have read your excerpts, those type of suggestions can be found many places on the net, the things you quoted don't make this guy authentic, as far as I can see. His story about Yahweh and Lucifer can be true according to his definitions, but we aren't using those words in the same context he uses. And most importantly, there is only words of him, either believe it or don't. I don't think he must provide proof, but at least he could have gone beyond words and provide some data and research about certain things he mentions. The world is full of people who give spiritual advice, but nearly nobody researches those matters. This is something Cassiopaean Experiment and Laura provides, as you can see when you read the Wave series.

I mentioned why I think he is dangerous, because he is manipulative, he uses the beliefs of people and when he portrays himself as a knowledgeable source and gives confirmation to those beliefs, people want to trust him. This isn't a good thing to use. As suggested, you should read Wave series, you have misunderstandings about Lucifer, Edenic state and Yahweh. If you take two sources who have different definitions of the same words, you can't form a constructive discussion. We have read the information you provided, so please read Wave series to understand what we are trying to convey to you.

 

[henry]

Hmmmm.

Funny how we get these folks coming to the forum bringing this kind of stuff and wanting us to do a thorough analysis. They don't recognize that Laura has decades of research into this stuff behind her. Many members of this forum also have years. The forum itself has gone over all sorts of purported spiritual information and dissected it to death.

So I'd say that this group has about the best developed nose for sussing this stuff out of any group on the planet.

And, oh, boy, do they get their shorts in a knot when we don't read every last word before coming to a conclusion. Well, the practice is called discernment, and developing that is what we do here, Eboard. We don't have time to waste going over every channelled or other source trying to see if it matches the Cs at 74.5% or 96.86538%.

We're doing our own work.

When you look at a lot of the stuff Eboard10 is fussing about, how much of it is possible to really know? How the heck do any of us or anyone else know what was going on between the Creator and any of the cast of characters in this tale? How can it be verified?

So, Eboard, why should we spend any time at all looking through this stuff? What is the point? The planet in going down in flames. We think we may have a way of dealing with this, and ruminating about the issues you raise is really a waste of time -- other than helping some of the newer members to develop their own discernment. And from the replies I have read to your posts, they are doing a mighty fine job. Good work, gang!

Let me just quote one thing:

I would only like to add that I what I meant when saying that I feel disappointed with some of the members is that some seem to find this information disinfo with a subjective perspective and "devaluation of knowledge" etc. These conclusions can only come from people who either haven't actually understood the meaning behind HH words, or who are giving their own subjective interpretation of the info (as I've seen above). If you believe what I'm saying is false than please explain why; I'd very much like to understand your side of things.

When people on the forum read HH's stuff, they are doing so with a wide context of how disinfo works. They are doing so also with an understanding of psychopathy and ponerology, in other words, how the world at large works. So we don't need to spend a whole lotta time understanding the "meaning behind HH words" because we have spent a lot of time understanding the meaning behind the appearance of a thread like this on ATS. It is part of a larger pattern that repeats itself over and over and over again.

Hidden Hand is a distraction put there for people with nothing better to do to lose their time. You are clearly identified with it. You have an emotional investment in proving your point. But you probably don't understand what I mean by that.

 

[Buddy]

These conclusions can only come from people who either haven't actually understood the meaning behind HH words, or who are giving their own subjective interpretation of the info (as I've seen above). If you believe what I'm saying is false than please explain why; I'd very much like to understand your side of things.

Eboard10, I think Galahad just had the last word (you can feel these things :)), but since you asked, I would only add this:

There may be another explanation to the above. You are preaching to the choir concerning the theory/hypothesis of hyperdimensional realities. The problem seems to be that you are not taking a scientific approach to your 'investigation.' So based on your requests for discussion, all we can do is make statements about statements and try to show where you are stuck, limiting your vision.

Otherwise we would be discussing similarities and differences between the material, not 'defending' a particular point of view. That part has to be disposed of first before an impartial discussion can happen.

The scientific mindset trys to build a 'map' that includes 'all' the territory in an effort to see how all the different parts fit into a unified whole. I don't think that mindset is so invested in a particular interpretation that it can't set something aside if it can't be tested.

This is how it looks to me, but I could be off somewhere.

 

[Laura]

My my! Eboard, the first thing we expect of people who come to this forum is to introduce themselves. This introduction doesn't have to reveal your real name or location or other details that could attract harm to you, but we do expect to know a little bit about your thought world development. You didn't do that. That's the first thing.

The mess you plopped on our porch is rather similar to many other piles of nonsense that we have all waded through in our collective years of examining such things - nothing new there. What is, of course, disturbing, is how blatant the stealing and inversion of ideas and concepts is within this twisted monologue.

Quite frankly, the ONLY similarities to our work or even the Ra material is that some of the same words are used, but that is where the similarity ends. The content continuum behind those words you have brought here is like bizarro world where everything is backward, black is white, good is evil, up is down, and so on. Just goes to show you what a schizoidal psychopath can do.

In analyzing this material, we notice a consistent contamination of ideology via an infiltration of foreign, simplistic, and doctrinaire contents. There is a clear moral warping of the ideas we consider here to be highly probable. It is also rather clear that your own knowledge base - that is LACK of knowledge - has made you susceptible to this "psychological pressure."

The author of this word salad is being treated by you with no critical distance. His pathological anomalies and characteristic way of viewing/presenting things are clear to those who have spent time studying such things objectively, but you are unable to see them. Instead, you are treating his ideas as at least equal to those presented in our work here and it just doesn't fly. The only conclusion to be drawn from this inability to discern the differences is that your natural critical faculties are atrophied and this has made you susceptible to this infiltration of the mind. You seem to have inhaled so much pathological material that you are convinced that this quite abnormal individual is a unique genius and his writings are something of great value.

The question that persists for us here is this: are you, too, pathologically twisted or are you just confused?

Well, let me note that your almost fanatical zeal in promoting this obvious nonsense strikes me as an attempt to impose your conceptual view on others. There is significant - though controlled - pathological egotism evident in your words and manner of writing. You liberally utilize paramoralistic insinuations - suggesting that the members here are somehow morally deficient if they don't see the same things you see in this work - and you definitely have that "flavor" of exceptional tenacity that generally accompanies certain pathological states. We call it the "Energizer Bunny Effect."

Undoubtedly, in some other contexts, you have been able to overpower other people's objections, or at least argued them into silence because they realized that their thinking was turning desperately illogical in their attempts to counter your relentless, egotistical, paramoralistic, discourse. That isn't going to happen here because we are familiar with these tactics that are outgrowths of pathology.

There are a number of conclusions we can draw from this behavior: possibly you have been a psychological loner for most of your life and now, suddenly, you feel that you have "found the truth." Sadly, I have to tell you that you are a zealot for an ideology that is bigoted, materialistic, and even satanic. This material is warped, possibly by a biological factor present in the author who is undoubtedly pathological, probably a schizoidal psychopath. The oversimplified pattern of ideas devoid of psychological color and based on easily available material that has been ripped off from others, obviously exerts a powerful attraction on you and that is due to the fact that you are insufficiently critical, probably have suffered in your life from downward social adjustment or have been culturally neglected or you are just plain pathological yourself. You undoubtedly have some hysterical tendencies because such writings tend to be attractive to the hysterical types.

In any event, having said all of the above, please be aware that your presence on this forum henceforward will depend on your willingness to be guided by those with much more experience and expertise in dissecting these types of schizoidal writings. You need to calm down, do some reading of a LOT of other material. I will also suggest that the first thing you need to do is download our breathing and meditation program and get started on that. It's free and you will find the link to the download page here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=12837.0

If you will just have a little bit of confidence that we do have a clue here, try it our way for awhile, I think you will be more than happy with the outcome.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Anyway what Hidden Hand is telling you is that Without Polarity, (derived from Free Will), there is only the Unity of Love and Light, and no choice to experience 'other than' that. So, we were to be the Catalyst for change, in order to provide that choice, thus bringing Polarity.
They are basically here to create that Negative Polarity which we weren't allowed to experience. It is a crucial part in the evolution of souls in this grand scheme of the Universe. He then goes on to say:

It is complicated to put into words, and also I must be careful with what I say on this. I've already had a "slap on the wrist", you could say.

If we do not have a Negative Harvest, we are bound with you for another cycle. Once this Great Harvest is completed, our Contract with the Council and our Creator is also completed. In other words, we have done our duty, and would be free to return to our Fullest Expression, that of Sixth (nearly Seventh) Density Galactic Guardians, and ones who joyfully offer ourselves in Service to the One Infinite Creator, and to our Brothers and Sisters across the Galaxy. However, there is a problem. Well, you would call it a "problem", we call it a Challenge. I will address this later in more detail, in response to another question, but in short, we need a very high percentage of Negative Polarity, if we are to achieve a Negative Harvest. In other words, we have to be Self-Service-Centred to an extreme degree, in order to become Negatively Harvested. This is why we work so hard to be as Negatively Polarized as we possibly can be, If we do not make a high enough percentage, we will miss out, and will end up with the majority "luke warm" percentage, that have to go through another Cycle in 3rd Density.

I did not read the entire article, nor am I interested in waisting my time. The paragraphs you provided are enough for me to stay far away from this material.

Negative Polarity, ie STS/entropy is good? And needed for us to avoid going through another cycle of 3D?? This is pure nonsense and clearly dis-info. And honestly it kind of made me laugh that you think anyone here would buy it as a legit source of info. And I'm sorry to break it to you but we are a source of negative polarity NOW as STS- and dis-info agents such as this HH want to keep you in that state for all of eternity, so that you can be a slave/food for 4D STS for all of eternity.

Baked Noodles indeed!

 

[Eboard10]

I think I owe an apology to everyone whom I have answered in an imposing manner. It was never my intention to force or impose my thoughts on you and certainly not to overpower anyone. I just wanted to get your opinion on the info and see if there was anything new that could be drawn out of HH text, although I now see how you feel about it so I'll just stop this discussion and put this info to the side for the time being and go on with reading the Wave series. I am definitely going to read the whole Series as I found the transcripts to be truly revealing, though I tend to forget most of the information due to my poor memory (which isn't such a good thing considering I'm "just" 21) :/

Well, let me note that your almost fanatical zeal in promoting this obvious nonsense strikes me as an attempt to impose your conceptual view on others. There is significant - though controlled - pathological egotism evident in your words and manner of writing. You liberally utilize paramoralistic insinuations - suggesting that the members here are somehow morally deficient if they don't see the same things you see in this work - and you definitely have that "flavor" of exceptional tenacity that generally accompanies certain pathological states. We call it the "Energizer Bunny Effect."

I wish I had such a control over my communicative abilities. I've always had problems with trying to express my true feelings and thoughts although in the end I always seem to fail :(
I admit I did let myself overcome by my ego when I was initially bombarded by people critizing the thread and the content of the source; I didn't expect such a reaction to begin with and that's propably what led to my answering in an agressive way. Again, I'm sorry for how I've portrayed myself, it was not my intention to do so.

The question that persists for us here is this: are you, too, pathologically twisted or are you just confused?

I don't see myself as being pathologically twisted, nor hysterical (quite the opposite) but definitely someone who is in what I call a perpetual confusional state, the reason being that I have a pretty large pool of information and knowledge but am having trouble fitting everything together. Hopefully I'll be able to come to a better understanding of things.

I'll write a bit about my views on the World today in my introduction thread so that you can get to know me better.

 

[Laura]

I'll write a bit about my views on the World today in my introduction thread so that you can get to know me better.

There now! See? That wasn't so bad! I think that your heart is in the right place. Do check out the meditation program which you can download for free. There are recent sessions on the forum which talk about this program and a thread where everyone is reporting their results and experiences.

 

[henry]

I wish I had such a control over my communicative abilities. I've always had problems with trying to express my true feelings and thoughts although in the end I always seem to fail :(

When you have read more of the forum, you'll see that there are many people here who had or have the same problem. You're not alone. :)

How can any of us express our true feelings when they have never been acceptable? The Éiriú Eolas breathing programme will help you with that.

Also, reading the 'big five' psychology books will also help you to understand why.

Narcissism "Big Five"
Myth of Sanity - Martha Stout
The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
Trapped in the Mirror - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers - Barbara E. Hort
In Sheep's Clothing - George K. Simon

I admit I did let myself overcome by my ego when I was initially bombarded by people critizing the thread and the content of the source; I didn't expect such a reaction to begin with and that's propably what led to my answering in an agressive way. Again, I'm sorry for how I've portrayed myself, it was not my intention to do so.

Our forum can be a shock for newcomers who are used to the way things go elsewhere. :)

I don't see myself as being pathologically twisted, nor hysterical (quite the opposite) but definitely someone who is in what I call a perpetual confusional state, the reason being that I have a pretty large pool of information and knowledge but am having trouble fitting everything together. Hopefully I'll be able to come to a better understanding of things.

There is a lot of information out there. It is very easy to become confused, especially with the amount of energy and money being funnelled into creating exactly that situation to keep people confused! That is why we work so hard on developing our ability to discern. But if you read through the threads in the Channel Watch & New Age COINTELPRO thread, you'll start to see how its done.

I'll write a bit about my views on the World today in my introduction thread so that you can get to know me better.

Looking forward to it.