People assume they're straight until they learn otherwise, and to acknowledge their gayness to themselves and to share that with others are both actions
Sleeping in a bed, sitting in a chair, and standing in one place are also considered "actions", yet there is little effort involved in these practices, nor has anything really been achieved or accomplished by these actions, and are certainly not something any reasonable person would take pride in.
whitecoast said:
To say these actions take no effort or courage is a broad generalization. Even though it takes less courage to come out to others (or even themselves) today than thirty or sixty years ago, you can't judge someone for choosing to pretend to be straight since you don't know what they've gone through.
Again, I didn't say these actions took no courage, but still maintain that they don't take a great deal of effort and any feelings of pride associated with them are misplaced at best and potentially harmful at worst. And you're right, I don't know what it's like to pretend to be straight and it wasn't my intention to pass judgement upon gay people in general.
whitecoast said:
As for the comments about Pride as a central theme. You have to look at it from the perspective of a gay person in a highly oppressive culture.
Have you ever considered the possibility that events like a gay pride parade and the public "loud and proud" lifestyle actually contribute to this highly oppressive culture? Instead of making people more tolerant and accepting, I would argue that it achieves precisely the opposite. By shoving one's sexual orientation into people's faces, forcing them to accept it unconditionally or be subjected to a chorus of "homophobe" from the authoritarian left, only serves to make people less tolerant and accepting.
In my opinion, one's sexuality is a personal and private affair, and best be kept 'within the bedroom'. Modesty and humility play a large part in this, which is the opposite of pride.
whitecoast said:
You're told that homosexuality is unnatural, that it's a sin, that you'll burn in Hell for that. Imagine feeling like you live a condemned existence.
These are views expressed by a small minority of religious fundamentalist types and don't really apply to society at large. Being that I consider the Bible to mostly be a work of fiction and used as a tool for mass indoctrination and societal control, certainly I too would be included in "sinner bound for hell" category, but I don't spend my days agonizing about living a condemned existence.
whitecoast said:
Out of fear and shame you may just marry a straight person to try and annul and repress this part of your emotional life. You get used to telling lies to almost everyone you meet, out of a matter of personal safety.
I'm glad you brought this up. Concerns for personal safety are important for everyone including gay people, women and minorities. With a proper understanding the the mechanicalness of human nature, it seems counterintuitive to openly proclaim one's homosexuality knowing that there are people out there who would inflict actual harm on a person whose lifestyle they reject and fear. Keeping one's sexuality private seems like a more successful strategy.
whitecoast said:
Imagine only being in bars or clubs at night, like you're something embarrassing that needs to be hidden from everyone else. Imagine these areas as predatory grounds for people who assault gays recreationally, and of course police look the other way. Imagine being told what you are is inherently antisocial and self-destructive, and having this implied in EVERY casual public or private conversation that touches on the gay subject.
I can't imagine anyone who is seriously involved in the work of this forum regularly going to a bar or nightclub in the day or night.
whitecoast said:
Telling someone to have pride in spite of all this is a highly subversive and liberating act.
I would argue that, in today's world, having the self-mastery to keep one's sexuality a personal and private affair is a much more subversive and liberating act.
whitecoast said:
Having this pride in spite of all the near-universal condemnation is the gateway to then demanding that others (and society at large) respect you, your humanity, your needs, and your human rights. If people don't respect and love themselves, they're not going to fight to demand society do so as well.
And this is where the whole gay pride movement goes off the rails in my opinion. Who is anyone to "demand" respect from others? Is that not a prime example of intolerance? Respect can only be earned through positive repeated actions and acceptance then follows as a natural consequence of respect.
whitecoast said:
You may argue that things are different now, but that repressive mindset is a part of the cultural milieu (and casually using words like "abnormal," with all its moralistic connotations, to describe gays ISN'T helping!) That stuff doesn't just go away. Even in the US some kids are still getting kicked out of their parents' homes for being gay, or are forbidden from sharing such with their parents. You could argue there's a lot more resources available to those kids, but there's still a lot of heavy collective trauma there.
That's the origin of Pride as a central theme. I do agree that it as a concept has been ponerised a bit, to the point of even lauding ostentatious displays and other questionable behavior.
I struggled a long time over what word to use in that context; "unnatural" didn't seem right and "odd or weird" sounded judgmental. I decided on "abnormal" solely in consideration of the overall population of gays to straights, which I think is around 3% - 7%, so in that context, being gay goes against what is normal for a vast majority of the population.
Plus, what Scottie said. :)
