My Life in a Cult

Jack,

Laura was very clear that the adverse reactions you mentioned were possible side effects of hyperventilation, not of pipe breathing. It is also quite clear that the constriction of the pharynx on the exhale is essential for the proper stimulation of the vagus nerve.

Why the need to ask? If you listened and/or read the EE material, that is.

Laura asked you to try the entire program once before posting again, and without doing so you return with a post that makes you look hungry.

Red flags are showing up.
 
MC,

I have had seizures, and other muscle problems, without pipe breathing. It is important to me to not risk activities that might trigger re-occurance of those problems.

I have experienced the adverse reactions I mentioned without pipe breathing. Laura discussed these side effects, and discussed hyperventilation, and discussed pipe breathing. Therefore, I wanted to ask whether I understood correctly that the reactions only applied to hyperventilation, not to pipe breathing. When information about medicine includes discussion of side effects, I try to make sure I correctly understand what was said about side effects. It seems to me that in anything that has to do with health and side effects, asking for clarification is better rather than assuming that I understood correctly. I apologize if my asking to confirm about side effects was inappropriate. I genuinely don't understand how it was inappropriate.

Side effects are a major concern because both my partner and I are undergoing major medical challenges at this time. I have never known of a doctor, nurse, medical social worker, or other medical professional that has objected to our asking for a piece of information to be repeated for clarification. In fact, we have been asked to be sure to ask even "dumb" questions. "Since I've had seizures, and you discussed seizures, I wanted to make sure that the seizures were about the different method you mentioned in passing, not the current method you're teaching." If this is the kind of forum where asking that is proof of bad faith, I'm at a loss as to what to do.

I wanted to explain that even though I don't understand the safety of the whole program for someone who's had tremors and seizures, I have already started to do as much of it as I do understand, as much as I do know that it's safe for me to do so.

I am sorry that I misunderstood that I should have gone through the entire program before posting. Rereading Laura's post, I can now see that may well be what she meant. I meant to indicate that so far, I am grateful for what I have already learned from the program. My intention was to be appreciative of the opportunity and ask a question about its safety.

If it could be dangerous to me to go through the whole program, I shouldn't do it. I am trying to find out if it could be safe for me to go through the whole program. If the tetanus and tremors only come from hyperventilation, not from the deep breathing of the program, then I'll do the whole program, and sit out of the forum until I do. If there is any risk at all that I might have misunderstood Laura's context about tetanus and tremors, then I should not attempt her program.

So much for the mind. Now for the heart. I apologize for sending off red flags. I am at a loss as to how to prove my sincerity. For someone who has already had side effects, and side effects are mentioned, and we've already agreed I can be confused, why isn't it appropriate for me to make sure I understood about the side effects? I am utterly heartfelt in hoping to find whether Laura's experiences, and the combined wisdom and learning of this forum, could help contribute to healing in my life and help me be able to better be of service to others who seek truth, peace of mind, and good health.

I wish I know how I could put the contents of my heart and soul into words that let you see the tears of hope on my face right now, as I wonder if I might dare to hope that there's something that could help me. How can I put into words the terrible fear that I'll once again be rejected as inadequate and uncaring, because I dared to ask whether I might be hurt by what I hoped in? I have no telepathy to make you able to understand what I think and feel, and I don't know why it's not possible to have faith that I really do want to learn, and I also really want to not trigger seizures, and I also really am trying my best to learn with all that I know how to reach inside my mind and soul. Why was it wrong for me to ask if I understood about the side effects?
 
Jack,

The answers to the questions you asked are so clearly stated by Laura that the questions themselves become suspect. That is if you have read or listened to the material. It would be like a student asking after his initial arithmetic lessons, "I would like to make sure, is 2 + 2 = 4?"
 
MC, I don't see any reason why Jack can't ask questions about the meditation. Even if it is rather clear in the audio, some things may be missed by people. It seems you are being rather harsh towards Jack. Seems to be that, perhaps, something other than him asking questions is bothering you and you are using this as a reason to jab at him. I think you need to lighten up on him a little.
 
Jack said:
I have had seizures, and other muscle problems, without pipe breathing.

Hi Jack,

The breathing exercises stimulate the vagus nerve, and vagus nerve stimulation has been shown to decrease seizure frequency. Hope this helps.
 
Side effects are a major concern because both my partner and I are undergoing major medical challenges at this time. I have never known of a doctor, nurse, medical social worker, or other medical professional that has objected to our asking for a piece of information to be repeated for clarification. I'm at a loss as to what to do.


Hi Jack.

I've also got medical issues, and have experienced some pain doing the program. I have MS, and do have nerve pain everywhere from that, including the nerves of the face called Trigeminal Neuralgia (which is probably not spelled right). It doesn't flare up often, but when it does its not ignorable. Migraines and spasticity can also put a wrench in things.

In the beginning doing the breathing program I've had pain, enough to take things a lot slower than I want to. I have to skip moments when the breathing goes fast, mostly from having a flu bug that makes me cough too hard right now.

What I've found that works well, is doing the entire program either lying in bed, or propped up at a 45 degree angle with lots of pillows. The more I do the program the better things go, and taking things slow is working fine.

I've had days where I'm too sick to even breathe deeply, so I just listen to the whole program. It helps memorize the process.

Go at your own pace until you get a better idea what your body will handle. Just don't give up, or fake yourself out of doing it because of medical problems. You're breathing, not climbing Mt. Everest. :)



Mods: feel free to move this where ever if its in the wrong place.
 
Heimdallr said:
MC, I don't see any reason why Jack can't ask questions about the meditation. Even if it is rather clear in the audio, some things may be missed by people. It seems you are being rather harsh towards Jack. Seems to be that, perhaps, something other than him asking questions is bothering you and you are using this as a reason to jab at him. I think you need to lighten up on him a little.

Understood.

Your insight is correct; it wouldn’t be appropriate now to explain why.
 
Thanks for the helpful comments, including your most recent, MC. I don't seek any explanations. If you have specific ideas from you about how I can express myself more clearly, I'd still appreciate learning from you. What hits me hard is when I'm told what my own thoughts and feelings must have been, rather than asked. You happened to catch me off guard at a very low time. Perhaps this post will help you understand why I sometimes seem to miss the obvious.

I will go through Laura's entire meditation program, and report back. If I feel discomfort, I will go more slowly and gently. If I experience pain or other physical side effects, I will back off and retry later. If I experience the emotional release side effects Laura discusses, that would actually be good for me now.

I was going to bring my story here gradually and in chronological order. But at this point it would be simpler to summarize what's happening right now.

I am trying to take care of a Stage 4 cancer patient, who also suffers massive anxiety attacks throughout the day. These add up to a debilitating situation. She has standard heavy-duty cancer treatment, and the bare minimum of resources for day to day survival. The chemotherapy has a side effect in her of destroying the emotional blocks she had developed to protect her from the soul-disintegrating effects of growing up in a random, violent, insane, cruel cult far worse than what I grew up with.

At the same time, my own health has collapsed and I have been unable to support her with my own career funding both of us, as we'd originally hoped. About half of the time, I have massive chronic pain and other very severe symptoms that make me unable to function and, as you've seen, pretty dim witted verbally. (Right now my thinking is as clear as it gets for me.) If I was to try to have a physically pain-free life, I'd need something like ten Percosets a day. That would likely put me into a drug stupor even worse than the effects of the pain. As it is, I get by with a couple of tylenol or advil once or twice a day.

Both of us have been tremendously hurt in almost every way imaginable by abusive personal and work situations which repeated our childhood situations. We were defenseless, without any awareness about predatory processes. I know my partner would be utterly overwhelmed by this forum. However, as I mentioned I've brought some of the material from here into our therapy discussions and every time, it has led to very constructive communication and insight.

All of our savings, credit, and anything of value has been disposed of for her medical needs. Despite there being a world-class functional medicine clinic in my town, that deals with exactly the kind of issues in the medical book Laura recommended to me here, I have not been able to get any treatment. Even regular vitamin supplements are out of reach financially at this time.

To live within our means, we are currently sharing a house with a violent, abusive alcoholic as one of the other roommates.

At the same time, I've found what seems to be some good information about home-based work we might be able to do, even while sick, to pull ourselves out of the financial hole. We live where the kind of health care we need is a privilege for the rich, so we need to get more money while unable to do regular day jobs. Yet that makes additional concerns, as with the sales letter article I posted. Sales letters can be kind and respectful, and I don't want to learn how to escape psychopaths by becoming like them. These concerns can make me feel very wary at times.

These are a few of the headlines in what has been many years of chaos and loss, in circumstances of disallowed grief.

As a result, sometimes I am a bit distracted or overwhelmed, and don't catch everything that someone said the first time that I hear or read their words.

Given these circumstances I hope I can be allowed to continue participating with a pseudonym, and granted an occasional allowance for sometimes needing to discuss the obvious more than once.

It really hit me hard when I finally got enough courage to join the discussions here about the ultimate balance (6D) of wisdom (5D) and compassion (4D). And along with a few helpful comments, I also got a flurry of posts from people who, it felt to me, were repeating my past experiences with people who insisted that their uncomfortable feelings proved that I must be some kind of fraudulent attacker. Their feelings were proof that I couldn't actually be a person who has both kindness and hurt inside and is trying to reach for balance and wholeness. Their feelings were proof that I couldn't actually have any goals that I can be of service to those I can help and support in their growth. And no testimony in my own behalf was tolerated. It really hurt to feel that same sense of mistrust and condemnation here that I was hoping to not find here.

While listening to Laura's talk, I did not perfectly understand the distinctions she made because these other concerns were also present. With good health, adequate housing; no reason to fear the future; and a calm, peaceful study environment, of course I would have immediately got her point on the first try.

I hereby offer to mail, to QFG's Boulder mailing address, a written statement with my actual name and location, and a signed authorization for Laura to contact the licensed clinical social workers at the cancer center who can confirm that what I am saying is true. She could then tell the forum that I am sincerely what I say, while keeping my actual name and location in confidence. Is this necessary to defuse the questions about my motivation?

After withdrawing from my other currently active threads, I'll learn to breathe and mediate and check back next week. Best regards to all.
 
Jack said:
It really hit me hard when I finally got enough courage to join the discussions here about the ultimate balance (6D) of wisdom (5D) and compassion (4D). And along with a few helpful comments, I also got a flurry of posts from people who, it felt to me, were repeating my past experiences with people who insisted that their uncomfortable feelings proved that I must be some kind of fraudulent attacker. Their feelings were proof that I couldn't actually be a person who has both kindness and hurt inside and is trying to reach for balance and wholeness. Their feelings were proof that I couldn't actually have any goals that I can be of service to those I can help and support in their growth. And no testimony in my own behalf was tolerated. It really hurt to feel that same sense of mistrust and condemnation here that I was hoping to not find here.

Hi Jack - I think it might be wise for you to take a deep breath and deeply consider the fact that your feelings are emotional reactions, and, as such, they are not really proof of anything other than your interpretation of what has occurred. You have interpreted things through the lens of your own experiences and wounds; shaped them to fit your own expectations - thus basically creating a self-fulfilling prophecy that no one can be trusted (this is very common - I've done it myself as most people have). Consider for a moment that what you have 'felt' as far as the motivations and conclusions of those who have responded to you is not the objective truth. Consider that what you have felt is merely your emotional reaction based on your own wounds, and the motivations of most of those who have responded to you have been nothing other than the pursuit of the objective truth, which is the purpose of this forum. Also, forum members are human beings, and as such, we are not perfect, nor do we expect perfection of others (meaning mistakes are made).

If you can consider that, you'll be closer to the truth of the matter. I don't think there is any reason at all for you to send any proof of anything to anyone. Just continue on with the breathing exercises, as you are able and go from there. fwiw. If I'm mistaken in my perceptions, I'm sure someone will chime in to correct them.
 
I don't think there is any reason at all for you to send any proof of anything to anyone.

Thank you.

your feelings are emotional reactions, and, as such, they are not really proof of anything other than your interpretation

Thanks, Anart.

My intention was to mention feelings I had, without any claim that the feelings represented reality.

A primary challenge of my life has been to even be aware what feelings I have, and what feelings others might have. I reached this point a few years ago, learning things I had never been taught growing up.

The next challenge is to identify what ideas are at the roots of the feelings. This has been the primary task of working one on one with a cognitive therapist for about a year now.

I hoped that saying "it felt to me" showed that I recognized that these feelings weren't necessarily accurate. As I'm still learning how to realistically process feelings, after a lifetime mostly around those who denied and repressed both my feelings and theirs, I'd welcome guidance about clearer language for such a disclaimer.

nor do we expect perfection of others
Sometimes this comes across, sometimes it appears to me that I'm held to a standard of perfection that's simply not reachable by me now. I will keep your comment in mind and see how the perception of attack from some other people's language can be a learning experience about my own interpretations.

I think I've withdrawn from all current threads, my apologies if I missed any. I'll breathe, meditate, and say hi next week.
 
Just wanted to add that this week I watched the movie, Marjoe, mentioned earlier in this thread. I recommend it. It won the Oscar for documentary in 1972. Interesting how he says that religion is a drug and jokingly asked, "Can Jesus deliver a religion addict?" It's also surprising how the tent revival con continues even after the revelations of Marjoe, who described the whole thing as a business and pretty much said that the most successful "ministers" were con men who consciously used gimmicks to draw people in. Very revealing.
 
PopHistorian said:
Just wanted to add that this week I watched the movie, Marjoe, mentioned earlier in this thread. I recommend it. It won the Oscar for documentary in 1972. Interesting how he says that religion is a drug and jokingly asked, "Can Jesus deliver a religion addict?" It's also surprising how the tent revival con continues even after the revelations of Marjoe, who described the whole thing as a business and pretty much said that the most successful "ministers" were con men who consciously used gimmicks to draw people in. Very revealing.

Yeah - it's a fantastic film.
 
PopHistorian said:
Just wanted to add that this week I watched the movie, Marjoe, mentioned earlier in this thread. I recommend it. It won the Oscar for documentary in 1972. Interesting how he says that religion is a drug and jokingly asked, "Can Jesus deliver a religion addict?" It's also surprising how the tent revival con continues even after the revelations of Marjoe, who described the whole thing as a business and pretty much said that the most successful "ministers" were con men who consciously used gimmicks to draw people in. Very revealing.

To day I saw the movie. Great Movie. Best movie to show how the conventional religious rituals are mind control activities. so many great positive things happened in early 70's and but faded into silence. This is the movie that has the potential to expose the entire vatican. Well, it couldn't. It too fell to the weapon of the PTB 'silence'.
 
Hi evergreen,

Welcome to our forum. :)

We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, how they found the cass material, and how much of the work here they have read.

You can have a look through that board to see how others have done it.
 

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