my parents crying

[ishiki]

after more than a year, I finally talked to my parents about their faith Christianity. I am the youngest in the family and my two sisters are christians as well. I myself am not a Christian however I lied to myself and my parents for over a year and thought that it might be better not to let them know, for they would be very upset.

Not talking to them was even worse. My dad could only say: "I don't understand why you didn't talked about this earlier". My mom sat there crying, saying she wanted to be strong, but that she can't and that she didn't me want to go away from God. I couldn't say all the things I wanted, and she asked me to not close my heart for him.

It is very hard to see my parents crying and I am even wondering if I did the right thing. However how can I continue to lie to them and to lie to myself. Facing reality is really hard, and now I am crying because I hurt my parents. No parent wants their child go astray, making the wrong choices, and although I don't see it that way, they do.

 

[ishiki]

I should add though, that I can only move forward. I guess my family and fear of losing them was a huge program and it will work out for the better, eventually.

 

[truth seeker]

Hi ishiki,

You may be interested in reading up on strategic enclosure and external consideration.

I understand why you might feel as though you were lying to your parents but sometimes it's best to allow others to believe and do what they choose, particularly because it makes life easier for them and others. It's not our job to make others see reality as we see it as many don't want to or simply aren't capable of it. Instead, we try to respect their free will to live and think as they choose. Hope that makes sense. If not, don't hesitate to ask for clarification. :)

 

[Nienna]

Also, as Gurdjieff said, "Sincerity with everyone is a weakness."

 

[ana]

My mom sat there crying, saying she wanted to be strong, but that she can't and that she didn't me want to go away from God. I couldn't say all the things I wanted, and she asked me to not close my heart for him.

It is very hard to see my parents crying and I am even wondering if I did the right thing. However how can I continue to lie to them and to lie to myself. Facing reality is really hard, and now I am crying because I hurt my parents. No parent wants their child go astray, making the wrong choices, and although I don't see it that way, they do.

Since you have already talked to them, now to make things easier for them and yourself maybe you can say that you are not going away from God but trying to understand and see him/her beyond the perspective of Christianity.

 

[ishiki]

Thank you for your reply :). After contemplating on my behavior and my post as well, I understand that I was driven by my emotions and didn't properly explain myself. I reread http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/External_and_Internal_Considering and read up on strategic enclosure. I'm not sure what the latter means. I can't quite grasp the idea. However I am reading the article at the moment, so I hope I'll have a better understanding when I am finished.

It's not our job to make others see reality as we see it as many don't want to or simply aren't capable of it.

I don't want my parents to understand me, my motives. I decided a long time ago that it was better for them not to know. It would only confuse them, that was the conclusion that I made when I wanted to tell them the first time. I decided to stay low and play along, for the time being.


I have a lot of ''wishful thinking'' problems. Especially the bad ones. I always think about how things will work out for the worst. Though I know that it is useless, and won't turn to reality, I can't seem to stop it. By speaking to my parents, I wanted to stop this. Not truly knowing the damage it would bring. It might have been better to wait. on the other hand it's no use crying over spilled milk.

Since you have already talked to them, now to make things easier for them and yourself maybe you can say that you are not going away from God but trying to understand and see him/her beyond the perspective of Christianity.

I don't think they would accept that answer as they/I am now. It might be better to let them get used to the idea of me leaving the church. I came to this conclusion because someone from church with whom I had a conversation earlier. (This might lower the attention which I drawn upon myself.) However I do plan to work towards that idea, it will take some time though.

When speaking to this person Gurdjieff's words about understanding, and that every person understands in its own way, popped up in my head. I noticed that we spoke of different things, using the same words. I know how he thinks, but he didn't know my thoughts, so a gap of understanding was created.

 

[loreta]

Also, as Gurdjieff said, "Sincerity with everyone is a weakness."

What Gurdjieff mean with this statement? In what context? I tough to be sincere is a good attitude. Now I am lost. Why it is a weakness to be sincere with everyone? Can I read something about it?

Thank you.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Also, as Gurdjieff said, "Sincerity with everyone is a weakness."

What Gurdjieff mean with this statement? In what context? I tough to be sincere is a good attitude. Now I am lost. Why it is a weakness to be sincere with everyone? Can I read something about it?

Thank you.

Think about it like this. If you were a person harboring Jews in your attic in Nazi Germany, and the SS came knockin on your door asking if you have seen anything suspicious, would you tell the Gestapo you're harboring Jews in your attic? It's not always wise to be "sincere" with everyone.

 

[Laura]

Also, think about it this way: if you tell the truth to a psychopath, he will use it to harm or control you. And it is really hard to know about people, so the best thing to do is to tell the truth as far as you can, but not everything, and especially not things that can be used to hurt you.

There are a couple threads on the forum about lying, external considering, strategic enclosure, that are well worth reading.

 

[Mikey]

The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

 

[loreta]

Ok, I understand in the context you all give, about sincerity. But is it applicable when, in my evolution, I try to be sincere with my parents, for example? Or my husband or anyone very near my life? I know that they can be part of this system that fight against you. I always thought that sincerity is a sort of protection, I now see that it is an illusion thinking this. Again, if my parents wanted to make me follow something that is against my view, I was sure that be sincere with them was the better way to take. I will read about this subject more profoundly. My idea of sincerity is that sincerity is the other face of hypocrisy. (I think that sometimes you have to be sincere utilizing diplomacy.)

 

[Nienna]

Ok, I understand in the context you all give, about sincerity. But is it applicable when, in my evolution, I try to be sincere with my parents, for example? Or my husband or anyone very near my life? I know that they can be part of this system that fight against you. I always thought that sincerity is a sort of protection, I now see that it is an illusion thinking this. Again, if my parents wanted to make me follow something that is against my view, I was sure that be sincere with them was the better way to take. I will read about this subject more profoundly. My idea of sincerity is that sincerity is the other face of hypocrisy. (I think that sometimes you have to be sincere utilizing diplomacy.)

There is good and there is bad, and there is the specific situation that determines which is which.

Along with finding threads that Laura has suggested you look at, you may want to look at the links that were provided by truth seeker about strategic enclosure and external consideration. In the external consideration link, it also talks about internal consideration.

There are times to be sincere and times not to be sincere. If you are only trying to make others, who are not ready, to see things the way you see them, that is internal consideration. Discerning why you are doing something is part of the Work.

It is not up to us to change others, or to make them see things as we do. Also, telling other people the way we think could make things much more difficult for both parties.

 

[loreta]

Ok, I understand in the context you all give, about sincerity. But is it applicable when, in my evolution, I try to be sincere with my parents, for example? Or my husband or anyone very near my life? I know that they can be part of this system that fight against you. I always thought that sincerity is a sort of protection, I now see that it is an illusion thinking this. Again, if my parents wanted to make me follow something that is against my view, I was sure that be sincere with them was the better way to take. I will read about this subject more profoundly. My idea of sincerity is that sincerity is the other face of hypocrisy. (I think that sometimes you have to be sincere utilizing diplomacy.)

There is good and there is bad, and there is the specific situation that determines which is which.

Along with finding threads that Laura has suggested you look at, you may want to look at the links that were provided by truth seeker about strategic enclosure and external consideration. In the external consideration link, it also talks about internal consideration.

There are times to be sincere and times not to be sincere. If you are only trying to make others, who are not ready, to see things the way you see them, that is internal consideration. Discerning why you are doing something is part of the Work.

It is not up to us to change others, or to make them see things as we do. Also, telling other people the way we think could make things much more difficult for both parties.

Yes, I think it is true. Thanks.

 

[ishiki]

Ok, I understand in the context you all give, about sincerity. But is it applicable when, in my evolution, I try to be sincere with my parents, for example? Or my husband or anyone very near my life? I know that they can be part of this system that fight against you. I always thought that sincerity is a sort of protection, I now see that it is an illusion thinking this. Again, if my parents wanted to make me follow something that is against my view, I was sure that be sincere with them was the better way to take. I will read about this subject more profoundly. My idea of sincerity is that sincerity is the other face of hypocrisy. (I think that sometimes you have to be sincere utilizing diplomacy.)

There is good and there is bad, and there is the specific situation that determines which is which.

Along with finding threads that Laura has suggested you look at, you may want to look at the links that were provided by truth seeker about strategic enclosure and external consideration. In the external consideration link, it also talks about internal consideration.

There are times to be sincere and times not to be sincere. If you are only trying to make others, who are not ready, to see things the way you see them, that is internal consideration. Discerning why you are doing something is part of the Work.

It is not up to us to change others, or to make them see things as we do. Also, telling other people the way we think could make things much more difficult for both parties.

Yes, I think it is true. Thanks.

Thank you for this explanation. I agree.

 

[TyBiggs85]

Hi Ishiki,

You know it's funny I was going to post a topic about this same issue. My parents are fundamentalist Christian as well. My father tends to condemn anyone who does not accept Jesus Christ as his lord and savior. I used to believe this myself most of my life. However, what I know now, as far as alien abductions, and the vast infiltration of mind programming by placing psychopaths in control of religion and government entities, are just a couple of things that contradict the religious institutions, of not only Christianity, but the other main stream religions.
I find it extremely difficult to believe in something that has been filtered and propagandized down for a couple millenia. Not to mention, the fact that these so-called scriptures have been written by men, interpreting God and the prophets in their own way. I do believe that Jesus was a great man who found ascension into higher awareness, along with Buddha, Krishna, or even Mohammed.
As for your parents and the discussion y'all had, I'm truly sorry you have to deal with that pain. The pain of feeling like an outsider, and being thought of as someone who is lost or delusional. When the truth of the matter is, you are really searching for the truth of spiritual enlightenment. God is not some vengeful, judging force, like a kid with a magnified glass choosing which ants to burn. Nor does he/she exist in some far away realm, but he/she is inside us all. We have just been lied to and deceived by powerful forces that manipulated our fall from the Edenic state.
I cant stand it when my father says that people who are not Christian are going to hell. He's basing this assumption on pure faith and scripture that has been written by men. Also, my parents say to me "you've got to start going to church again. We worry about you so much, and want you to build your relationship with God." Anyways, I'm sorry to make this so long. But those are my frustrations with the whole issue. I totally understand you and respect you for having the courage to tell your parents. I have not gone into detail with my parents, on where my belief systems currently are today, but i am a long way from condemning people to hell! Being self-righteous is not the answer. It's sad but they might have me committed into an asylum or something if I did tell them exact details. Lol....good luck to you, and keep retaining knowledge.