Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Subcriminal Psychopathy?

[knowledge_of_self]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

This is equivalent imo to running away from the predator which just makes the predator chase after you that much the more. In other words, after you told your manager that you were being mistreated then all that followed after that was your own inner predator (that is, your emotional defensive reaction) being chased by the predatory shift leader (Chris), and if you meet another “Chris” somewhere else in another job then that same predatory "intelligence" that was working thru him will just as easily work thru another and just keep chasing you (and your own inner predator) again and again and the dynamic will just keep repeating itself.

I see and understand your point. But let’s look at it also like this-

Considering the fact that the manager told me she had already received several other complaints about the very fact I was complaining about and the fact that she had not done anything about it up to that point speaks loads. As does this example.

One night while working with the AM and another senior shift leader (Brandon) Brandon was telling us what happened on Christmas Eve while he was working with Chris. Where, apparently Chris was really rude to some customers, to a point that one of the customers came to complain to Brandon saying that Chris had a very bad attitude problem. Chris came over and asked both of them what the problem was and Brandon said that this lady is complaining about your attitude. And Chris blatently tells the customer, “Yeah well this guy is an MOD like me so he can’t do anything about it anyway, so HAH”.

Brandon apologized to the customer and let her know that he has seniority and will note this incident. And Chris says, “oh yeah? Well I get more hours than you, so HAH”

And Brandon is now annoyed and decides to just leave him be because he’s “playing a game”. The girl was in shock and left the store very upset. Brandon only tells the AM and me about what happened, so I ended up telling the main manager this story as more evidence of Chris’s lack of caring for people when I was complaining about him the first time. She was in shock that he spoke to a customer like that but didn’t’ do much about it except the one write up.

During that meeting, I recall asking her why, if she had gotten so many complaints about him was this the first time she was actually documenting it, and her response was that well he works well with me and the AM so I never thought more about it. Which was ridiculous to me, because it seems like Chris was just practicing

* They are often charming and innocent in front of managers.

I asked the AM the same question and he said because it’s just too much of a hassle and no one really cares. Therefore, all these were evidence that this guy had already ‘outed’ himself but those people ACCEPTED and tolorated him for who he was. They “didn’t care” that he was rude to co-workers or customers- at least not enough to document it.

So when I see this, I think to myself had I stayed and played this game with him- who knows if what happened to Mr.Tigersoap would not have happened to me?

For example, I held onto a job were my direct superior did everything he could do to break me so I'd resign, but I wanted to prove him that I wasn't going to leave that easily. The end result is that I did not quit, they just fired me (at last), afterwards I was broken up and depressed for a very long time of nearly two years of harassment

So, the way I see it is that yes- under the circumstance of if no one in the staff realized that Chris possessed narcissistic and rude behavioral traits, and I would have been the one pointing all this out would have merited with me ‘doing this dance’ with him. But I saw no point. I saw that those people knew what he was- they didn’t care and tolerated his behavior. Which I think is different.

It is to me the same as people knowing someone like Chaney is a narcissist but they don’t care to do anything about it because they tolerate him. And in general this is what our society does, tolerate narcissism. This is why I decided to quit- yes I could have stayed but I saw my staying as pointless.

But I do agree that by staying you would strengthen the art of stalking. And in this situation, I think it was not so much that I ran away, I chose not to stalk this petty tyrant. Next time, if the situation is different I will stay and deal with the petty tyrant, but in this situation I saw it differently.

 

[Tigersoap]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

So when I see this, I think to myself had I stayed and played this game with him- who knows if what happened to Mr.Tigersoap would not have happened to me?

Well you have the advantage of networking and the knowldege of petty tyrants so I think that it would have been different.
I thought I could take it and dance with the devil but I wasn't prepared, I was reacting most of the time even though I tried not to show it.
It was a great lesson after all but I would have dealt with the situation a lot better if I had known beforehand what to do.

I thought that by becoming a self-employed worker I would avoid such jerks but it wasn't the case and it was in many ways sometimes worse.
So the predator never quits, it just change shape.

Sorry if I wasn't of much help and gave a biaised advice

 

[Voyageur]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

Hi Deedlet,

There were many interesting things said in this thread, the little work we do in life to make ends meet is often never easy; it can sting in fact and those intrusions of our senses, our foundational constructs vary with each one of us and reactions are just as varied. The situation you described is unfortunately far too common and it seems that the perpetrators, if skilled in nothing else, have this ability to inflict their mark as if it is preordained.

The reality of the situation is that you had yourself a perfect petty tyrant and you walked away. It was perfect because the boss already knew he was a problem, so if you had utilized the situation to work on controlling your own reactions to provocation, it might have ended up in a win/win situation with him gone and you getting a LOT of practice with playing a role and stalking a petty tyrant. This is extremely valuable for working on yourself and mastering reactions.

What Anart discuses here is important on many levels and to give example I too fell prey prior to Christmas in a big way and the lesson learned was extremely valuable as Anart discuses about mastering.

Without getting into much detail, my situation was that i was placed in a role by colleagues with aims of achieving practical and human interpretation of policy, the adversary was of higher authority that made decree against our group. After carefully (not enough) weighing out his arguments and mirroring his decree, the full wrath of his power came down upon us and myself in particular. After we consulted legal opinion, he choose to only feedback that he felt legally confirmed his decree. He glossed over what did not fit and when these were again mirrored back he then abandoned critical thought and assaulted us on a personal level.

After retreating I came to realize that this person could never be wrong, could never consider the alternative and would bend the cosmos to maintain being right. Even though a wide range of effected people consider his decree, not in their words, but nonetheless simply Ponorizing; in the end it was left for a response basically to say, ok, thank you, and considered a new approach, for to pursue this tact, which is basically what we do generally in life with sane people (logical tact), could never work in this case.

From the very start I did not recognize this in him, but am now very aware and would not repeat frontal logic. The emotional response he inflicted on me was very intense which manifested in physical problems that have only now abated after recognising that despite the tyranny of the person, the effects were caused by myself for not adequately recognizing; he feed into my emotional level, hence I did not control my reactions to provocation, and this was felt too by the group. Walking away, quitting was not far of mind, but this is not the way in this circumstance, it would only be emotional and not strategic. That being said, every situation is different with there own salt and wound nuances.

We seem to live in a time, which is not lost on anyone here, where logic, truth and evidence can be denied, assaulted and debased to suite agendas, beliefs and pathologies of mind and seem to be of a completely separate reality then that of much of humanity. This separateness can seem oh so tricky and powerful and being blindsided can become the rule not the anomaly.

The nuances of your interactions at work are intricate to you and hard to discern exactly, yet when confronted with situations, instantaneous feedback sometimes immediately demands or requires a commitment to respond in word or action with person such as described, and this does not always come out in retrospect as intended, which has its own effect which these people seem to measure and calculate so efficiently. Even when they are being blatantly obvious, it seems to somehow work to their advantage; people somehow become enamoured, like your boss perhaps, maybe it is a sense of fear that cannot be consciously discerned, they cover it over with excuses. Often with people such as these, when dialogue promoting logic and truths fails, it seems more often than not that one can expect next their emotional punch, either to illicit or inflict. Some of these people are just pure Teflon, even amongst their peers, amongst evidence, nothing seems to stick.

Not sure why this came to mind but recently an interview was broadcasted concerning a brave woman journalist from Mexico who reported on behalf of the impoverished and abused, reported truth. Her work is dangerous as she is up against tyrants and psychopaths intermixed in crime and government. In order to silence her, these inhuman machines devised to kidnap her under threat of harm to get her to retract her stories. What they did not count on was that she had a strategic plan that kicked into gear the moment she was kidnapped and in essence turned the game against her perpetrators by a global lens of condemnation. She was released and her stories highlighted against the perpetrators. Despite this, some of those machines are still within their corrupt niches, but underlining the experience was her strategic plan and awareness of just what could happen. Her intervention with a third counter influence plan which saved her and exposed the creatures for what they are.

On an extreme level, but perhaps just as relevant is the need to have strategy and a fall back plan. On a less extreme level this seems commensurately true too as was discussed in this thread and emotional reactions need to be factored, but this is not easy and it takes work; i have my own lessons to learn here.

Anyhow, glad you had a fall back plan and asked for help in discovering things about the situation that may not have been clear at the time.

Edit: Wow Tigersoap, both within the same minute of each other.

I thought that by becoming a self-employed worker I would avoid such jerks but it wasn't the case and it was in many ways sometimes worse.
So the predator never quits, it just change shape.

They never do quite it seems, wherever you go.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

On an extreme level, but perhaps just as relevant is the need to have strategy and a fall back plan. On a less extreme level this seems commensurately true too as was discussed in this thread and emotional reactions need to be factored, but this is not easy and it takes work; i have my own lessons to learn here.

Anyhow, glad you had a fall back plan and asked for help in discovering things about the situation that may not have been clear at the time.

Edit: Wow Tigersoap, both within the same minute of each other.

I thought that by becoming a self-employed worker I would avoid such jerks but it wasn't the case and it was in many ways sometimes worse.
So the predator never quits, it just change shape.

They never do quite it seems, wherever you go.

Thank you Mr. Tigersoap and parallax. Your post gave me much food for thought. It is true- in any situation the only we can do is work on our own selves and programs and try to see when we are emotionally reacting. Which is way easier said than done . But when you do see it, it makes it easier the next time. As the saying goes, "all there is, is lessons"

And this is indeed what the work is about and I'm glad I have this network to learn and discover with. :)

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

Hey Everyone:

I just wanted to give an update about what happend with my quitting.

After speaking with the AM and pretty much the whole staff, they all told me to retract my resignation because everyone knows Chris is rude & unprofessional. I even had Chris's brother who is another CSR tell me to "take back my resignation because Chris is an *insert swear word here*" and that "I shouldn't take anything he says importantly because he's *insert another swear word here*" lol

It was weird how everyone insisted that I'd stay, and I know that my AM talked to the main manager because he told me he did and told me to just "hear her out". So after talking to her today, she promoted me to MOD and I begin training after I come back from vacation. And she told me that I most likely will never have shifts with Chris again, and asked if I'd be ok with just seeing him around. And I assured her that it was water under the bridge for me, but I don't know if he will feel the same way. She said it didn't matter how he felt- lol.

Either way though, even if I did get shifts with him, which I highly doubt I will because they almost never have 2 MODs working at the same time.
We're both the 'same level' now so... lol he won't bother me much with his power trips. And this will give me another chance to practice 'stalking' which is cool

That's it for the update :D

 

[shijing]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

That's great, Deedlet, and I'm glad to hear about this unexpected turn of events. I think you are right that this is a good second chance for you, and good luck putting into practice everything that you learned from the first round!

 

[truth seeker]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

Well I'm glad that they were able to see through his manipulations! I'm also really glad they took you back because now you can provide some kind of buffer between him and the other workers. With you doing the Work and being able to see pathology in action, perhaps you can (slowly) institute a healthier environment.

Good luck and be sure to post if you need networking to help you in any situations that may arise. We're all rooting for you!

 

[Ollie]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

… I held onto a job were my direct superior did everything (s)he could do to break me so I'd resign, but I wanted to prove (her) that I wasn't going to leave that easily. The end result is that I did not quit, ...

In my case, it started in the first week. I rode out the storm, and in the process discovered Petty Tyrants and how to deal with them. What a learning curve that was! It was also during this period that I discovered the C’s.

At one point the then management team (they were all in on the act!) refused to confirm the first part of my probation period (a total of three years) and I was served with notice to quit. My Head of Department even suggested that I took ‘gardening leave’ instead of working out my notice. However, I refused and implied that I would take further action that resulted in the notice being withdrawn as I had discovered some procedural irregularities that they knew would scupper any of their defence of any case that I brought against them. I ended up getting an extended probation period (on top of the three years), and reported directly to the Head of Department, and eventually left many years later on my own terms in taking early retirement. During that time I rarely had problems with the ex-‘direct superior’, any minor battles were swiftly dealt with by me directly.

As anart suggests, when a Petty Tyrant turns up

… getting a LOT of practice with playing a role and stalking a petty tyrant. This is extremely valuable for working on yourself and mastering reactions.

I'm simply stating that from the perspective of the Work, …

it is too valuable an experience to turn away, even though it is painful at the time.

Deedlet, I’m gad that your situation worked out for you.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

Good luck and be sure to post if you need networking to help you in any situations that may arise. We're all rooting for you!

Oh definitely! I'll be sure to update this thread about my interactions and adventures of 'stalking'. I'm just really glad that I have this group to network with about all this.

Thanks group!

 

[Divide by Zero]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

Hi Deedlet,

At my job I used to work a lot for a demanding supervisor, who means well, but can be short sighted. I used to do all I can to make him happy, thinking that would satisfy him, but it never did. That changed, I started to do things at my normal pace. When he asked why everything was not completed, I just explain that this and that too so and so time, I had to get parts, etc. In a short time he stopped request me as much to work on his team. The sad thing is one of his senior techs never pushed back, just did what he was told, yet I notice how stressed he is. It seemed like he never got to the point of taking a stand for HIMSELF.


It also reminds me of my father's job. He did inspections and repairs for restaurant fire systems and had to collect the money. The boss was totally inept, but always pushy to get cash (as he would steal a lot of it). He was also critical of anything. One day my dad did 12 stops in one day due to close spacing. The next day only 8 due to a lot of drive time. The boss was angry at that.

When my father talked about this to me, I told him he could do some things to alleviate the situation. First thing, he needs to not take the bosses words to heart. If he did 8 stops, that is what he could do. Also, collect as many checks (instead of cash), so that the boss would not be able to fleece the company. That would keep the company in a better condition, instead of failing as it is now. Those few things are a way to take a stand with the boss, without having to resort to quitting or fighting with him. If the boss became critical, he could just say, the customers didn't have cash, or there was a lot of traffic.

My father decided not to do any of that and struggled until he could retire.

Standing up for your work and being confident in that is the best you can is terrifying at first. It goes against a lot of our narcissitic programming to "be the best" or "be a good boy/girl". The healthy narcissism is what develops when we aren't as attached to what others think about us.

As Radiohead sings in "Optimistic":
"You can try the best you can
If you try the best you can
The best you can is good enough"

 

[piranah]

Absolute control absolutely charming

Reading this thread reminds me oguy at work when i Was a police community support officer. He was brought in as a supervisor. He was a very good looking American who seemed the answer to all managements prayers. I was quite impressed at first but gradually as i patrolled with him on a one to one basis i felt he was pretending. Like he would make sexist comments and yet be so nice at same time. He had this habit of talking about others and yet seeming sincere at same time. After time with him you felt you had come to conclusions on your own but later on reflection you realised he had subtly inserted suspicion into your judgement of a situation or a person. Anyway these were people targeted by him who left or were on sick leave. Once he told up we yes not going on patrol and made up wait in office. Them he went and told management we were refusing to patrol. Now looking back it seems clear but at the time being in it everything was so confused. Eventually no one trusted anyone. I left when i realised i could not get to the truth. Them two of the women who left contacted me. They had worked it out. We could haveMade a case i guess but never underestimate how ill this makes people feel. We had not kept notes and it was our words against this well liked man. Years later i would say to anyone in this position get professional advice asap and independent of workplace. Our bully was best mates with the manager. Do not let incidents pass. Document. One of our group say this guy hit a member of public unprovoked and did nothing. If you are in such a position do not try to cope alone get help join a union. When ever i work in a new place i make sure i have am careful to on get caught up in this kind of behaviour again.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

Good luck and be sure to post if you need networking to help you in any situations that may arise. We're all rooting for you!

Oh definitely! I'll be sure to update this thread about my interactions and adventures of 'stalking'. I'm just really glad that I have this group to network with about all this.
Thanks group!

Hey guys,

I just wanted to update this thread and say that I’ve been working at the same place for a while now and things are going ok. Chris has been acting somewhat differently towards me than before. For instance, he isn’t rude to me anymore when asking me to do something. And also a few times, he interrupted me while I was talking to customers or said something negative in front of the customer to me and after the customer left I told him straight up that I do not appreciate being talked to like that, or that his behavior was rude, etc and he didn't do it again after that.

All in all, it seems that since I’ve ‘stood up’ to him, he can’t help but try to be on my good side. Like always starting the most pointless conversations with me, just so I’d talk to him. Because I give him no attention while working together.

Anyway, the other day- I noticed he had sent me an add request on face book. And I didn’t know what to do. I still haven’t added him. But I seriously don’t get the point of adding him- because we’re not friends. My profile is all set to private so only friends can access my personal stuff like pics, etc. And I don’t feel comfortable adding him, knowing that he can access my account etc. Writing it out like this.. the answer is clearly ‘don’t add him’. But when I think more about it, I just don’t understand his deal. Why would he even want to be my facebook friend? We don’t have a good relationship at work, we have nothing in common, so why want to be on my fb?

Then, I thought maybe he’s trying to make a point to my manager and assistant manager (who are on my fb) that he’s tried to make peace with me, even requesting fb friends- but I’m a meanie and immature and won’t even add him as fb friends. I’m also really dreading being asked, “did you get my fb request?” by him. And answering… “yeah…. Oh sorry I haven’t.” (lie) or “Oh yeah… but I only add close friends sorry! (truth) which would make me sound very mean. So I don’t know how to go about this situation without letting my programs/predator guide me.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you!

 

[1984]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

But when I think more about it, I just don’t understand his deal. Why would he even want to be my facebook friend? We don’t have a good relationship at work, we have nothing in common, so why want to be on my fb?

You are asking yourself the correct question: 'why'? How could he benefit by seeing you/your life on a more personal basis - your thoughts, your ideas, you in general?

 

[anart]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

If I were you, I'd just tell him you only have family on your account - that's all you use it for.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

But when I think more about it, I just don’t understand his deal. Why would he even want to be my facebook friend? We don’t have a good relationship at work, we have nothing in common, so why want to be on my fb?

You are asking yourself the correct question: 'why'? How could he benefit by seeing you/your life on a more personal basis - your thoughts, your ideas, you in general?

The cynical part of me says it’s probably because he’s an ‘agent’ and he wants to know me on a closer basis, so that he can use whatever means he can to attack me when I least expect it. And if this is true... than my answer is clearly not to add him and deal with the consequences.