Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Subcriminal Psychopathy?

[Buddy]

Re: The narcissist's guerrilla war against reality

[quote author=The narcissist's guerrilla war against reality]
At that point I realized this wasn't going to stop. Unless I shut her down, mom might try to hold me responsible for each of her many dissatisfactions, possibly for years. So in a prepared statement I explained that mom's assessment of her son's mental abilities was at odds with reality, she had tried the vile-accusation tactic on someone else, and the entire sequence of events resulted from her seriously dysfunctional personality. This woman was served with my position in advance and had time to consider any rebuttal she cared to make, but I think she realized what would happen to her if she disputed any of it (I came prepared with detailed evidence), so at the hearing she silently accepted my position without comment, thereby turning my claims into stipulations (matters on which both sides agree).[/quote]

I don't think we can over-emphasize to ourselves, how important it is to study and understand narcissism and psychopathology - in ourselves and others so that we can know how to apply the the C's advice in various situations: 1. Always expect attack. 2. Know the modes of same. 3. Know how to counteract same.

Thanks for sharing that! I'm glad the author shared his story and was able to extricate himself from that mess.

 

[Lauranimal]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

I am in a somewhat difficult position and could really use some advice/feedback.

I recently received a promotion and transferred to a new store location with my company (about 5 weeks ago). We're very progressive with a set of core values that empower everyone from the ground, up.

As a Team Leader, guiding 10 individuals under me and responsible to my Store Team Leader, Regional Team Leader as well as my Team members, that is a lot of, sometimes conflicting, expectations and personalities to balance.

For the most part, it is going really well ... except for one individual. She is very subtle and perhaps even quite unconscious of what she is doing.

From the very start, she was very resistant to me coming in because I have a reputation as being very action oriented, driven, embracing of and bringing changes. Plus, nobody on this team was accustomed to being held accountable to our companies particularly high standards. So, it was clear to me that she had decided well ahead of time that she would show a covert defiance. Highly critical and judgmental. Haughty and tries to speak to me as if I owe her explanations, should consult her on every change, and should ask her permission for the hours I work.

In recognizing that it takes time for us to all get accustomed to each other's particular personalities and communication styles, I have tried to show a lot of external consideration for everyone on the team, especially her. I figured... she just needs a minute to figure out that I am not a threat to her. I have bent over backward to make sure I am flexible about meeting her needs, giving her stimulating tasks, inviting her creative input on a few of the many changes I've made thus far. But I realize now, that no amount of trying to make sure she is a happy employee, is going to satisfy her, since it now seems clear that she is actually out to undermine me.

She has taken to whispering in corners (I call it, Holding court) and magnifying what she see's as my weaknesses, and then projecting them on to other Team Members to try to get them to adopt her point of view. What amounts to character assassination, very much without merit.

I'm not sure what the best way to go about nipping this in the bud would be. I know that I am going to have to have a talk with her, and there may not BE a way to keep her from taking a defensive stance, but I want to minimize her sense that I am in some way trying to attack her. Part of my job is to make sure that my Team Members are happy, empowered and feel comfortable coming to me to talk about anything, including conflict. Balanced with... showing her some reasonable boundaries. My goal is to develop a more profitable/balanced give and take relationship, where she doesn't feel threatened, and I don't see and feel her covert hostility and disruption of the team.

One of the things she does that REALLY!!! pushes my button (PROGRAM!!!) is, under various circumstances, she'll say... "Why don't you just..."

Grrrrrr!

Tell me if I am wrong in how I am interpreting this: It implies that she expects me to justify my decisions to her. it implies that if I don't agree with her idea of the obvious 'just', then I must be stupid. And it seems like an attempt to make me feel inferior so that she can feel like she has some kind of control or power. It truly feels like a manipulation. And sometimes she doesn't even say the words. Sometimes, it is just her tone of voice, and I would like to smack the condescending disdain off her eye-balls.

I would like to formulate a response to this that draws her attention to how and why this is offensive, but at the same time being constructive rather than further driving her into hostility.

It is easy to say that I am just going to lay down the law, and here's how it is, we're gonna do it my way. That just isn't our culture with my company. It is a delicate thing, and I need to find the best way to make it work. Especially since.... for the most part... she does a really great job! I very much value her contribution. But her attitude sucks!

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[vinny]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

For the most part, it is going really well ... except for one individual. She is very subtle and perhaps even quite unconscious of what she is doing.

<snip>

I have bent over backward to make sure I am flexible about meeting her needs, giving her stimulating tasks, inviting her creative input on a few of the many changes I've made thus far. But I realize now, that no amount of trying to make sure she is a happy employee, is going to satisfy her, since it now seems clear that she is actually out to undermine me.

She has taken to whispering in corners (I call it, Holding court) and magnifying what she see's as my weaknesses, and then projecting them on to other Team Members to try to get them to adopt her point of view. What amounts to character assassination, very much without merit.

I'm not sure what the best way to go about nipping this in the bud would be. I know that I am going to have to have a talk with her, and there may not BE a way to keep her from taking a defensive stance, but I want to minimize her sense that I am in some way trying to attack her.

This is going to require some very careful 'dealing with' on your part. It sounds a lot like the behaviours described in 'Snakes In Suits' (Robert Hare). If you haven't already read this I think it would be very helpful for you.

Another small but very useful book is 'In Sheep's Clothing' by George K. Simon Jr. which is really good at explaining the best strategies for dealing with this kind of covert aggressive behaviour. I found it very helpful for my own situations in the past, and it is highly recommended. There is a thread here that lists some of the points from that book. Hope this helps.

 

[Lauranimal]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

Thanks so much Nomad. I'll definitely check it out!

I did just catch something that I wrote....

She is very subtle and perhaps even quite unconscious of what she is doing.

"...since it now seems clear that she is actually out to undermine me..."

What amounts to character assassination

There is NOTHING unconcious about this!!! It is clearly deliberate. While I might have to be very diplomatic about the situation, I can defininitely admit this to at least my self and make sure I keep this awareness as protection.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies


I want to start by thanking you Lauranimal for resurrecting this thread, and pardon the length of this post but I had to give some background.

A few months ago I wrote about me getting a new job here. Well actually some things happened since then and I ended up leaving that job for another one (Blockbuster) where I actually used to work several years ago (at another location)

I applied to Blockbuster (BB) before getting the job at Rogers but they had no availability, but the manager knew me as a long term customer and knew I had worked for the company previously and let me know that she will call me if anything opened up. So long story short, I started working there at the beginning of December. The Rogers manager told me she would love to have me back to their store if things didn’t work out.

Before I go on, I should mention that I have manager experience in the past but since I was out of work for a while I got hired as customer service rep(CSR). And in the store CSRs have certain duties to do that are usually split with the other person on duty which is the manager on duty (MOD). Because, almost always (unless for Fridays and Saturdays) you’re only working with one other person.

Anyway when I started working for BB everything started alright with everyone there except one shift leader, Chris.

From the very beginning when I started working with him, he made a very smug comment about how I’m the CSR and how he’s the MOD and that I had to do all the duties because I was a CSR and he was “above that”.

No other manager, not at that store and not anywhere else has ever classified themselves like that for me. I was very bothered by it and happened to mention it in passing to the assistant manager (AM) and his reaction was not surprised at all. He claimed that I was not the only one who has said this about Chris and told me to speak to the store manager about it if it happened again.

Well it did. One very busy Sunday night, he got me to do all the closing tasks of the store, including running all the returns, straightening and cleaning up the movie shelves, vacuuming the whole store and filling confession stands like pop, emptying garbages AND dealing with the customers. While he stood there and did some work that they could have done on Monday morning when the store is dead. And basically he took his time doing a task that would take anyone else only an hour, while he watched me do the other work. Whenever we were not serving customers that is.

By the end of the night I was so exhausted I thought I was going to fall down, because of course you don’t get breaks anymore if you work less than 6 hours.

So the next day, I told my store manager what had happened the night before, and how he barely does any work, and that he has a very holier than thou attitude towards everyone. And that pretty much anyone I talked to in the staff thought the same thing about him including the assistant manager and another senior manager. I told her that I did not appreciate being taken advantage of like that as a worker and that I don’t like being undermined at everything I do. And I know that he does that because he always says things to me and rolls his eyes and is generally very cold.

She told me that she had recently spoken to him about this exact subject, because 3 other people had complained about him. She told me that she is going to write him up and speak to him about everything. I told her that I would work the remainder of my shifts with him, but after that to not schedule me with him and she said ok.

Well I only had 2 shifts with him; last night and tonight. And on both nights he was nothing but rude and full of contempt. He nit-picked at EVERYTHING I did, and was very condescending. He told me that I had some goals to sell rewards packages and I told him that I wouldn’t sell any because all my sales would go under his name, since the system still doesn’t have me in there for some reason. And later on, when we were not busy I asked him if he had finished everything he needed to do, because I had finished all the tasks I was told to do. He said yes, so I asked to go for a 5 min smoke break since we weren’t busy and he rolled his eyes and said after I finish pricing, which he had already claimed he finished 3 min earlier.

Then, he goes off to price his stuff and when he comes back I was with some customers and he goes to the furthest desk and calls the manager and tells her that I’ve been giving him attitude all night. I couldn’t believe my ears. After he finished his phone call he told me to clock out for 30 min and go for my smoke break. I did- but when I came back I phoned my manager and gave my weeks notice.

I told her that I had never been treated so badly at any place I worked, and that he was very rude. She was very sad that I was quitting and said she was really sorry that it had to come to this because she really liked me and liked working with me. When I went back to work, he was still rude and smug- he told me to go straighten & clean. Which I had already done once, but I did it again because I didn’t want to stand around near him. When I came back he asked If I minded if he “reviewed my work”. I said “go for it.” He came back and asked, “are you sure you straightened?” I said, yeah I’m sure. And he said “well it’s not good enough can you do it again? And I said “no, I can’t. Because it is good enough, and I just quit anyway so I really don’t care how straight it is.” He was like oook and walked away.

And right at closing time, he told me that I needed to sign a “review sheet” he had written of my work tonight for the manager. In it he had written that I had refused to do most of the work like sell anything, or straighten because I had quit. Which was a complete and utter lie, considering I had done EVERYTHING and it was just not good enough for him. So I wrote a small note on the bottom of the page explaining this fact and am going to talk to her about everything tomorrow.

Considering I may be going away next month, and that Rogers would take me back in a heartbeat if I ask them to, I didn’t see any reason why I should stay and work for a company that treated its staff so unfairly. The manager obviously had other reasons to fire the guy long time ago but never did, and I feel like I don’t need the headache of dealing with this narcissist in my workplace so I quit. But when i read this,

* They can be cruel and abusive to some co-workers, often targeting one person at a time until he quits.

I just wonder if my quitting is exactly what he wanted- and if it was he’s probably content that he got what he wanted, and that makes me kind of depressed that I gave him that satisfaction. :(

 

[Tigersoap]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

* They can be cruel and abusive to some co-workers, often targeting one person at a time until he quits.

I just wonder if my quitting is exactly what he wanted- and if it was he’s probably content that he got what he wanted, and that makes me kind of depressed that I gave him that satisfaction. :(

If that gives you any comfort, I think that some fights are not worth fighting, as it seems that you can find another job easily.
Sometimes it is better to leave even though you think you're not standing up against unfairness.

Do you think it would be worthwile to keep the job and the stress just for a reason of pride of not giving him what he wants ?

Despite the petty tyrants thingy, I think that sometimes you need to get out of such situations before it drains you too much.
As usual the context determines what should be done, it's not a general rule.

For example, I held onto a job were my direct superior did everything he could do to break me so I'd resign, but I wanted to prove him that I wasn't going to leave that easily. The end result is that I did not quit, they just fired me (at last), afterwards I was broken up and depressed for a very long time of nearly two years of harassment (and I did not knew about Gurdjieff and the Work, so it might have changed the dynamic at that time).

;)

 

[anart]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

I just wonder if my quitting is exactly what he wanted- and if it was he’s probably content that he got what he wanted, and that makes me kind of depressed that I gave him that satisfaction. :(

Sounds like he 'played you like a concertina'.

 

[theos]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

I just wonder if my quitting is exactly what he wanted- and if it was he’s probably content that he got what he wanted, and that makes me kind of depressed that I gave him that satisfaction. :(

Sounds like he 'played you like a concertina'.

Ditto. It seems pretty odd that the management at BB would keep him on with such behavior. He must be a relative or something.

Good thing you have a fall back position.

 

[Brenda86]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

It's definitely good that you can go back to Rogers. I'm often amazed at what people are allowed to get away with while others, who actually do their job, are harassed in various ways. I had a similar situation when I worked at Comcast. I did not have another job to fall back on, but my boyfriend said he would take care of all the bills, so that was my safety net.

Even though he probably did get what he wanted, it sounds like it was still better for you to leave the situation.

 

[TRANSSOCIOPATHICA]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

I have actually found that dealing with a psychopath manager is easier than dealing with a psychopath co-worker.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

For example, I held onto a job were my direct superior did everything he could do to break me so I'd resign, but I wanted to prove him that I wasn't going to leave that easily. The end result is that I did not quit, they just fired me (at last), afterwards I was broken up and depressed for a very long time of nearly two years of harassment (and I did not knew about Gurdjieff and the Work, so it might have changed the dynamic at that time).

Yes, my situation with Chris for me was a 'pick your battle' kind of thing. Since I had something to fall back on, perhaps if I didn't I would have gone about it differently but this is what I chose to do and after sleeping on it- I'm content with my decision.

I just wonder if my quitting is exactly what he wanted- and if it was he’s probably content that he got what he wanted, and that makes me kind of depressed that I gave him that satisfaction. :(

Sounds like he 'played you like a concertina'.

Ok? How would you have handled it if you were in my position? And maybe I'm perceiving something that's not there, but I found this one liner a bit of a cold response.

It's definitely good that you can go back to Rogers. I'm often amazed at what people are allowed to get away with while others, who actually do their job, are harassed in various ways. I had a similar situation when I worked at Comcast. I did not have another job to fall back on, but my boyfriend said he would take care of all the bills, so that was my safety net.

I know what you mean Brenda. It is the story of most of the places I've worked at or seen friends or family in the same situation more than once.

Even though he probably did get what he wanted, it sounds like it was still better for you to leave the situation.

Yes I feel the same way. Like I didn't need to play his childish high school games, so I stood up for my beliefs in my own way. Perhaps my leaving will set precedence for others in the store, especially the store manager who will have to answer to her district leader why it was that someone she hired chose to leave after a month. Or maybe not, but either way I'm OK with it.

I have actually found that dealing with a psychopath manager is easier than dealing with a psychopath co-worker.

Really? How so?

Personally, I rather not work with any sort of psychopathic co-worker or manager, but hay I guess that's a wishful thinking thought in the world of psychopaths.

 

[anart]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

I just wonder if my quitting is exactly what he wanted- and if it was he’s probably content that he got what he wanted, and that makes me kind of depressed that I gave him that satisfaction. :(

Sounds like he 'played you like a concertina'.

Ok? How would you have handled it if you were in my position? And maybe I'm perceiving something that's not there, but I found this one liner a bit of a cold response.

You probably perceived it as a cold response because you were looking for responses to back up your decision and make you feel better about it. My response is simply an observation. He pushed your buttons repeatedly and you reacted repeatedly until you eventually decided to 'take your ball and go home'.

The reality of the situation is that you had yourself a perfect petty tyrant and you walked away. It was perfect because the boss already knew he was a problem, so if you had utilized the situation to work on controlling your own reactions to provocation, it might have ended up in a win/win situation with him gone and you getting a LOT of practice with playing a role and stalking a petty tyrant. This is extremely valuable for working on yourself and mastering reactions.

I'm simply stating that from the perspective of the Work, he played you like a concertina - would you disagree?

I'm not saying that it's uncommon or not understandable - we've all been played like concertinas time and again - it's just that there was another way to deal with it all if you so chose. Life offers us many petty tyrants so I'm sure you'll find another!

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

I'm simply stating that from the perspective of the Work, he played you like a concertina - would you disagree?

No I don't disagree.

I'm not saying that it's uncommon or not understandable - we've all been played like concertinas time and again - it's just that there was another way to deal with it all if you so chose. Life offers us many petty tyrants so I'm sure you'll find another!

I understand what you mean and you're right I'm sure another one will come along at a time when I'm least expecting it to test my impeccability.
Thanks for the explanation -

My task now is not to dwell on what happened but to learn from it and try and apply what I learned towards the next petty tyrant.

 

[kenlee]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

So the next day, I told my store manager what had happened the night before, and how he barely does any work, and that he has a very holier than thou attitude towards everyone. And that pretty much anyone I talked to in the staff thought the same thing about him including the assistant manager and another senior manager. I told her that I did not appreciate being taken advantage of like that as a worker and that I don’t like being undermined at everything I do. And I know that he does that because he always says things to me and rolls his eyes and is generally very cold.

She told me that she had recently spoken to him about this exact subject, because 3 other people had complained about him. She told me that she is going to write him up and speak to him about everything. I told her that I would work the remainder of my shifts with him, but after that to not schedule me with him and she said ok.

Hi Deedlet. In a situation like this it might have been best to just let it go after letting your boss know that you didn’t like being taken advantage of by the shift leader (as you described above) . That’s all you could really do. But if you do it then do it for yourself as a conscious exercise to stand up for yourself without identifying with how you are perceived by your coworkers or what your expectations are regarding what the outcome might be as a result making a choice to stand up for yourself. It could help others as well. The rest depends on what the manager does.

But then after speaking with your manager you followed with:

Well I only had 2 shifts with him; last night and tonight. And on both nights he was nothing but rude and full of contempt. He nit-picked at EVERYTHING I did, and was very condescending.

This emotional reaction and the reactions that followed after standing up for yourself (and talking to the manager) eventually led to giving your notice to leave. If you were not identified with the outcome of the decision to stand up for yourself, only because you made a decision to stand up for yourself because you decided to, then whatever followed from that is something that you could accept since it was now up to your manager to determine what should be done
with that shift leader.

But when you emotionally reacted to the shift leader beyond that point then imo you were playing right into his hands. He wanted you to loose your balance and quit. It might have been a better idea to just accept him as a “petty tyrant" (as Anart mentioned) after you told your manager and then just kinda keep your cool beyond that point and work out your strategies and options in dealing with whatever situations followed from that point. Leaving your job may be one option but there may be others too. But if you left because of a reaction then you left yourself no options except only one, which was giving notice about quitting your job.

This is equivalent imo to running away from the predator which just makes the predator chase after you that much the more. In other words, after you told your manager that you were being mistreated then all that followed after that was your own inner predator (that is, your emotional defensive reaction) being chased by the predatory shift leader (Chris), and if you meet another “Chris” somewhere else in another job then that same predatory "intelligence" that was working thru him will just as easily work thru another and just keep chasing you (and your own inner predator) again and again and the dynamic will just keep repeating itself.

 

[Starlight]

Re: Narcissists @ Work: How to Deal with Arrogant, Controlling, Manipulative Bullies

I have been dealing with petty tyrants and are still dealing with them (Sad to say, they are abundant in my profession). And due to my programming , I am non- confrontational and are able to maneuver and skirt around those who are in direct contact with me and observe the ones that are not.

I'm often amazed at what people are allowed to get away with while others, who actually do their job, are harassed in various ways.

I would like to share my experience as one of the partners in my previous company. I have one thing to say about these covert aggressors, when they are dealing with the boss/management, they are super sweet, all giving and all concerned for the business of the company and the bosses, or so they make it look that way... In short they are "ass kissers" (Sorry, if it's too crass!) The bosses/management will be blinded by their ways. They will report/tattle about the other employees, true or not (most of the time, not), especially the ones that they do not like, or threatening their position, in such a manner that the bosses/management will fall for it. I am ashamed to admit that, I did, or more appropriately all the partners did! The covert aggressor managed to "persuade" not just one, but three partners to dismiss employees. Imagine the power!!

Honestly, I am not quite sure if talking to the bosses/manager will help at this point in time as 1) He already have a low opinion on you (thanks to the petty tyrant), 2) Knowing how they work, they probably will have prompt the bosses/manager that you will complain but in their mind it is of a different cause, altogether. I remember the scene from Lord of the Rings movie (Hope you've seen it), when Gollum actually manages to convince Frodo that Sam wanted the ring for himself. Sam knows that Gollum plots to kill them both! But when Sam tries to tell Frodo, who does Frodo believe at that time? Yup! Gollum!! 3) If they know/see of how he is i.e lazy and unreliable, then they will be unhappy with him and will ask him to leave. But, it is not the case. Then, there must be more to just that.

I understand what you mean and you're right I'm sure another one will come along at a time when I'm least expecting it to test my impeccability.
Thanks for the explanation -

My task now is not to dwell on what happened but to learn from it and try and apply what I learned towards the next petty tyrant.

Ahhhh...The art of stalking... that IS something to learn... isn't it? :)