Nayib Bukele, the savior of El Salvador?

[Cosmos]

Maybe Bukeles “miracle“ wasn’t so miraculous after all because the “deepstate“ helped him to achieve it by transporting a significant number of those criminals into the US? Maybe Bukele is aware of that, or not?

 

[Chu]

I think it could be a bit of both, or maybe both entirely.

What I mean is, everything that Bukele has done in El Salvador does not deny gang members traveling to the US, maybe because of his efforts, some upon noticing that the tide was changing might've simply changed branches and moved to LA or elsewhere in the US. Abandoning ship instead of staying and being captured.

Perhaps Bukele would not want to disclose this information outright to not ruffle the feathers of his people, or maybe it is known and no one cares, so long as they do not live in the country and aren't allowed back in. And in fact, in that interview with Tucker, Bukele himself made mention of Spain not deporting one of the gang members they had captured, so if one of the got captured in Europe, it means that dozens must've flown in that direction as well, which means that the US, which is the first destination because it is so close, has to be undergoing a similar process of accepting gang member refugees.

But then, Trump was back on campaign mode and he loves to make such large statements and declarations to appeal to his base, so there might be some fiction mixed in there too.

Definitely. When Bukele started doing his housecleaning, a bunch of criminals fled El Salvador. And they would have chosen the US first. But who is to blame for that? The gangsters had been trained and groomed in the US or by US backed institutions! I wouldn't be surprised if they have green cards. And the US borders are what they are. So, I just hear Trump boasting and campaigning.

There could be some "deals" with Americans who wanted the criminals in the US territory as well, for sure. But then again, blaming Bukele alone for that is ignoring what goes on in Trump's own country. The CIA and others are American institutions, and THEY are responsible for those criminals to begin with, OSIT.

So, if I had to guess, I'd say it's probably Trump knowing some details, yes, but most of all, boasting and just showing a very incomplete picture of the situation, because of his own ignorance.

 

[Ursus Minor]

El Salvador offers to house violent US criminals and deportees of any nationality in unprecedented deal​

CNN - El Salvador has agreed to house violent US criminals and receive deportees of any nationality, US Secretary of State Marco Rubio announced Monday, in an unprecedented – and legally problematic deal – that has alarmed critics and rights groups.

Rubio unveiled the agreement after meeting with Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele, as part of a tour of several Central American countries intended to consolidate regional support for the Trump administration’s immigration policy.

“In an act of extraordinary friendship to our country … (El Salvador) has agreed to the most unprecedented and extraordinary migratory agreement anywhere in the world,” Rubio told reporters Monday.

The country will continue accepting Salvadoran deportees who illegally entered the US, he said. It will also “accept for deportation any illegal alien in the United States who is a criminal from any nationality, be they MS-13 or Tren de Aragua and house them in his jails,” he said – referring to two notorious transnational gangs with members from El Salvador and Venezuela.

In addition, Bukele “has offered to house in his jails dangerous American criminals in custody in our country, including those of US citizenship and legal residents,” Rubio said.

Looks like a win-win situation. Trump has a 'magical solution' for another pressing problem and El Salvador gets his prison system financed while averting high tariffs.

 

[Adobe]

Today's prisons are for profit. And, the El Salvadorian supper prison stinks to high heaven of totalitarian rule and profit off of the suffering of others.

I wrote of this on the first page of this thread, and I knew this subject wasn't going to go away. Its to tempting for the PTB, who I'm sure built that prison. Its the concept they want to be bought into by other countries before building more. And the US pundits continue to comment about what a great system it is.

 

[axj]

Today's prisons are for profit. And, the El Salvadorian supper prison stinks to high heaven of totalitarian rule and profit off of the suffering of others.

Many US prisons are for profit but I don't think that the prisons in El Salvador are - unless you have different information.

El Salvador may be overdoing it with inhumane harshness towards prisoners, but it is also a fact that Bukele reduced crime dramatically and to a degree nobody thought was possible in that country.

 

[Chu]

Many US prisons are for profit but I don't think that the prisons in El Salvador are - unless you have different information.

Same here. As far as I know, they are heavily funded by the government, and prisoners' families must pay something like 170USD per month, or less, and it's still optional.

El Salvador may be overdoing it with inhumane harshness towards prisoners, but it is also a fact that Bukele reduced crime dramatically and to a degree nobody thought was possible in that country.

Yes. Although to my knowledge at least, there has also been a lot of propaganda saying that Bukele is basically a dictator, that those prisons are a nightmare (not true according to some independent journalists who visited and interviewed prisoners), etc.

I wrote of this on the first page of this thread, and I knew this subject wasn't going to go away. Its to tempting for the PTB, who I'm sure built that prison. Its the concept they want to be bought into by other countries before building more. And the US pundits continue to comment about what a great system it is.

That may be the case, but I doubt it. They already have waaaay worse prisons (witness Guantamo, Abu-Ghraib, prisons in Israel and a lot more we never hear about). When you know what those gangs were doing, and who was funding and training them, you can't help but feeling that Bukele's methods were the only approach he had left.

People aren't told that these gangs were formed and trained in Los Angeles (CIA funding, most likely). They hire very young children, and turn them into sociopaths. They make them do "initiations" that break their spirit at a very vulnerable age, so that all they are left with is a deep hatred towards others, and a sense of "safety" within the gang alone. To get "promoted" they have to murder someone. Rape, butting body parts, trafficking, etc are just their daily routine.

And, something else that is often left out is that the gang members were deported by the thousands, from the US back into El Salvador, once they were well trained. So, the US/CIA was perfectly fine deporting illegals or criminals, yet they let a massive number of illegal immigrants in. Doesn't that speak of double standards? When it suits them to drive illegals out, they have no problem doing it, especially if those same people are gang members ready to create chaos abroad.

 

[Chu]

Today's prisons are for profit. And, the El Salvadorian supper prison stinks to high heaven of totalitarian rule and profit off of the suffering of others.

Just another thought that occurred to me when reading the above. I think what bothers me also is the propaganda job on Americans themselves. For years (actually decades), the US (CIA) did exactly what you are saying: they profited off of the suffering of others, ABROAD. The gangs are super profitable for them, and they generate enough instability in "Amerca's back patio" that they can then make even more profit by forcing said country to make unfair deals with them.

Another thing is, whose suffering are we talking about? The gangsters in these prisons are treated VERY strictly, yest, but do you know the amount of suffering they themselves inflicted? We're talking about the entire population having been terrorized for years, their loved one killed and dismembered for no reason. Many of those prisoners proudly confessed to having raped and killed 50 some people each. It's easy for the Western media to only tell one side of the story, and portray them as victims. Well, I think many of them ARE, but only in the sense of never having been given a chance to develop a healthy psyche, and having been groomed as small children. They actions though, are very difficult to distinguish from those of born psychopaths with sadistic tendencies.

I could be wrong, of course. But I think we have to try to look at it from a broader perspective.

 

[Adobe]

I agree of course on the subject of the gangs. If I were king, I could consider even harsher methods. The issue I have is a prison system where no crime need be committed, just a suspicion from a pissed off neighbor can have a citizen arrested, and given a life sentence, without a case hearing, lawyer, judge…nothing, just life sentence in prison. Can’t imagine any country’s citizens wanting that form of penal system. And what a boon for a totalitarian government. Opposition and decent would easily be silenced.

My concern is more for the average citizen than the gang member. And now they are mix together in prison for life. Prison is for separating the belligerents, the sociopath, etc. from society. Once neutralized into a cell, I see no need for revenge or torture. The US penal system was ostensibly built for rehabilitation, and well, even the discussion of that is gone. Now it appears to be a punishment system.

Having said that, after the Patriot Act, any American citizen can be arrested without charge and go away forever, and any country can do the same one way or the other. But what make this ES thing different to me is the boasting of it, leaving out the inconvenient part, only the positive part, and people like T. Carlson and many other saying how great it is without bringing up the complete lack of citizens rights.

Anyway, I don’t need to beat a dead horse. That’s my opinion. If there is disagreement, fair enough. I’ll keep an open mind while continuing to monitor this situation. For me its not an easy one, and I appreciate the comments…thanks.

 

[Cosmos]

Assuming Bukele did this recent move on his own innovative, I think it is a pretty smart thing to do that might involve long term thinking. By this move Bukele is positioning himself and his country into a favorable position toward Trump and company and making sure from the get-go that no tariffs will hit that small country, which is probably very vulnerable towards something like that. It seems to be a good move considering the circumstances and if you want to continue to let your country prosper.

But, of course, it also comes with significant dangers to let so many criminals into the country.

 

[Chu]

I agree of course on the subject of the gangs. If I were king, I could consider even harsher methods. The issue I have is a prison system where no crime need be committed, just a suspicion from a pissed off neighbor can have a citizen arrested, and given a life sentence, without a case hearing, lawyer, judge…nothing, just life sentence in prison. Can’t imagine any country’s citizens wanting that form of penal system. And what a boon for a totalitarian government. Opposition and decent would easily be silenced.

I agree, it can be easily abused. In El Salvador's case, from what I saw, a big part of the problem was that the gangs were everywhere, and unless they showed their tattoos, people had no way of knowing who they were dealing with. The most horrible cases were those of children at school, open markets, etc. They would be spying while pretending to be innocent normal kids, then they'd tell their leaders that someone didn't like the gangs, and boom! A bunch of new people were killed. A decision was made to act quickly, without a trial, and that was one of the reasons. They wanted to shock the gangs out of commission, so to say. Bukele HAS promised that this won't last forever though, and it was only to get the worst criminals out of the streets, which he has done. But we'll see...

My concern is more for the average citizen than the gang member. And now they are mix together in prison for life. Prison is for separating the belligerents, the sociopath, etc. from society. Once neutralized into a cell, I see no need for revenge or torture. The US penal system was ostensibly built for rehabilitation, and well, even the discussion of that is gone. Now it appears to be a punishment system.

Having said that, after the Patriot Act, any American citizen can be arrested without charge and go away forever, and any country can do the same one way or the other. But what make this ES thing different to me is the boasting of it, leaving out the inconvenient part, only the positive part, and people like T. Carlson and many other saying how great it is without bringing up the complete lack of citizens rights.

Yes... I understand your point better now, thanks. I guess we have to see how it plays out in every country, because every situation will be different. At least it should be easier to know where we stand on this one, unlike many other things that get abused and corrupted without people's knowledge (like the Covid scam "science").