Nayib Bukele, the savior of El Salvador?

[msante]

Without a doubt, Bukele has more dark sides than bright ones. So there are cool dictators like Bukele and there are not-so-cool dictators like Kim Jong-un. What makes them different? The blessing of the United States?

Hello Puma. I think that drawing lines between political figures based on something they have in common, in order to conclude that they are essentially the same, is not a good way of looking at reality. Bukele and Milei are “friends” with Trump; they are both the same. Bukele and Kim Jong-un concentrate a lot of power in themselves; they are both the same... This line of thinking tends to simplify something that is complex and, in general, leads to conclusions that are not entirely fair.

I am not an expert on Bukele and I have no first-hand information about his government, only what the press reports about him. Unfortunately, the world press is a sh*t, biased, and under the influence of editorial lines that rarely report the truth. The only concrete data I have about the reality is Bukele's popularity (80-85%). This figure is similar to Putin's, but that doesn't mean I would say they are the same.

He is accused of being a dictator largely because he has a lot of influence over the three branches of democracy, but that does not constitute a dictatorship when that power comes directly from the will of the people at the ballot box (as is the case with Putin). We could debate how fair democracy is, of course, but that would not be the main point here.

The press also accuses Putin of being a dictator, with some even comparing him to Hitler. All because he has been in control of the country since 1999. Putin has also arrested alleged human rights defenders (Navalny is one example) and has expelled or “clipped the wings” of a number of alleged human rights organizations. This information alone, gathered from the press, is not enough to say that Putin is a dictator. In fact, he is not, and we all know it.

What am I getting at with all this? The devil is in the details, and context largely determines what is and isn't. Amid extreme judgments such as “dictator” or “corrupt,” there is a range of gray areas that, in my opinion, must be considered. Is Bukele completely clean? I don't really know, and honestly, I doubt it. Is there corruption in his circle? Most likely (given the world we live in, it would be difficult for it not to be). Even so, I can assume that Bukele has a genuine interest in improving the lives of Salvadorans, and from what we can see, this has largely happened.

For me, this is enough to say that Bukele and Milei have NOTHING to do with each other, just as he is not comparable to Kim Jong-un. Is El Salvador a wonderful paradise? Well, no, of course not, but tell me where there is one on this planet and I'll pack my bags to go live there.

The world we live in is far from ideal. Ideals are good as inspiration for our actions, but realistically speaking, I consider them impossible to achieve in our reality, which is shaped by essentially malevolent entities.

Anyway, this is just my opinion on the matter.

 

[Navigator]

I am not the first to call Bukele a dictator.

Ah yes, from the DW article referenced, the author is Óscar Martínez, from El Faro, who has openly opposed Bukele and who is financed by Soro's Open Society Foundation. I researched a bit El Faro here on the forum in the Salvador thread. The second one is an NGO, Directorio Legislativo who claims to have offices in Argentina and Washington, and the founder is also a fellow in the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) a known actor in the region and surviving sibling of USAID - a known CIA front or at least a partial on-demand front.

Should we trust these sources? Well, they may contain some truth but definitely have an agenda. Claims of dictatorship and human rights violations have been there since he took on the gangs and later imprisoned them, are these claims valid? Sure, maybe, I don't think the guy or his cabinet or policies are perfect by any means, but I think they are likely exaggerated.

Comparing Bukele, or his "Model" or whether it can be applied to Mexico is misleading, the equivalence is just not possible, I am confused as to why we should compare a tiny country in Central America with a another one that shares thousands of kilometers of a border with the US and is a key partner on multiple levels: financially, strategic resources, commercially, security-wise, and more.

But, after last week's events, should we ask for more proof that the Cartel has control, presence or influence over large parts of Mexico? They are kidnapping, threatening and extorting regular people. So what to do about it? Pretending they are not there won't make them go away, right?

 

[Alejo]

Without a doubt, Bukele has more dark sides than bright ones. So there are cool dictators like Bukele and there are not-so-cool dictators like Kim Jong-un. What makes them different? The blessing of the United States?

I sincerely have no clue what people hate about Bukele.

First, the entire world has responded to El Salvador's change making the country one of the top destinations for tourists. So everyone's feeling the positive changes in the country.

Two, they accuse him of doing the same thing that everyone does and somehow present it in a self righteous manner as if that wasn't the case elsewhere. Biden declared him a dictator and the articles cited accuse him of appointing his friends and family, as if that didn't occur in the US or in Europe.

I suspect they don't like him because he's opposed to them ideologically but also, he's probably hitting them in areas that won't be admitted to them. Central America aids drug traffic and child trafficking, I suspect the gangs and cartels, given the control they have of the streets, would be deeply involved in these businesses.

There's another point that is probably more nuanced in the case of people like Bukele, and others who have undertaken certain efforts to celan up their country and have pushed the boundaries of their legal system. And it's a point that becomes really visible whenever you see videos of people taking justice into their own hands, when they catch a thief or something on their neighborhood.

Groups like MS13 and drug cartels, have, one, already found ways to continue to operate within whatever established legal system using bribes and threats, which is why they hide behind it. And two, already broken the rules of normal human interaction and they hide behind people operating within those boundaries to continue to operate.

This is one of the reasons why in order to effect permanent change you need to break and push those boundaries. In simple terms you can take those choices and call them "breaking the law" and you'd be technically correct, but that would be dismissing the reality that the law is hijacked by criminal groups.

So, they've given him the classic treatment, "Bukele bad, like Putin bad, like Assad bad, like Gadaffi bad, why? because dictator.. human rights, dictator.. law, elections.." and so on.

 

[Puma]

I sincerely have no clue what people hate about Bukele.

Well, the Bukele issue arose because in Mexico, following the CJNG attacks, the opposition to Sheinbaum's government called for the application of the Bukele Model. In a post published here, I gave the reasons why it is not advisable, and I said that the main reason is that the M-13 was a gang in a very small country, while the CJNG is a corporation with military equipment at its disposal and ties to other mafias around the world.

Then Bukele posted something about it on X, which earned him ridicule from users. It's not hate, but rather putting things into perspective.

Why does calling Bukele a dictator cause such a stir?

I don't know. He called himself a dictator.. but a cool one.

He has made El Salvador a safe country at the cost of some violations of that country's constitution. The U.S. Department of Justice accused Bukele of negotiating a secret pact with the MS-13 leadership, basically putting them in a prison-hotel so that the world could see. (I don't know if there is a model in El Salvador for private prisons like in the US, which are a good business) What I see is a good simulation.

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[mabar]

Why does calling Bukele a dictator cause such a stir?

I suppose, based on recent actions that they are viewed positively because El Salvador is seen as safer, people feel more at ease. The country has had some very turbulent years. I was not aware of the case of the bloodiest attack by El Salvador's gangs, in which 17 passengers were burned to death in 2010. I learned about El Salvador insecurity as every central american country incluiding Mexico since I have the use of reason. One in particular had a big impact on me because I was in high school and the Jesuit Catholic school informed us, the massacre of the Jesuits in 1989

This article briefly explains El Salvador's rapprochement with the US, or rather with Trump's US. This is working for both sides at the moment. Bukele's foreign policy brings El Salvador closer to the United States. Although, in the current geopolitical context, it seems to me that the US is using it, not to break with it's Empire tradition, I guess.

Bukele has had tendencies that border on dictatorial, but I suppose they go unnoticed given the current context. Where the legislative assembly controlled by President Nayib Bukele's Nuevas Ideas (NI) party approved a constitutional reform allowing for the indefinite election of the head of state. Mexico's government does it, and dictator is an understatement from opposition point of view. Or when he used the Army and the National Civil Police to pressure the Legislative Assembly

 

[irjO]

Why does calling Bukele a dictator cause such a stir?

Because he is not? Next presidential elections are in February 2027, previous ones were in 2024.

Is Putin a dictator? I know is not exactly the same of course but you can see the correlation and parallelism.

The fact that a presidential figure posees a big majority support in a country with high risk on getting corrupt, limiting the number of re-elections would be not a good idea. Specially if the president has done a great deal in his country and has neurons.

Now, if he becomes a real dictator in the future, then that would be another story, but even in that case, if he makes El Salvador very safe and economically very stable, then I guess the majority of population could even support that.

I don't know. He called himself a dictator.. but a cool one.

This seems like the type of sarcasm or joke he would say to making fun of precisely the propaganda of him being a dictator.

 

[Puma]

Mexico's government does it, and dictator is an understatement from opposition point of view.

That's right, the current government dares to change the laws so that the president can remain in office indefinitely, and this becomes a tragedy worthy of diplomatic notes from Washington or the sending of "humanitarian aid" to democratize the country. Why not El Salvador? Because it is insignificant in the global context (At most, a resort whose tourist attractions are 45 minutes apart by bicycle... in case you want to go there instead of Mexico, they say) while Mexico is the United States' main trading partner, for better or worse.

Political analyst Viridiana Rios wrote to remind the Mexican negotiators of the UMSCA and after Trump announced of 10% global tariff:
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This is the second time the US has imposed tariffs on the rest of the world... and excluded Mexico. The message is clear: Mexico is indispensable to maintaining the US economy. Hopefully, Mexican negotiators understand this and stop giving in to everything as if we had no cards to play.​

And on the idea of the current government being a narco-state, which is promoted by both US politicians and the opposition.​

If Mexico were a narco-state, there would never have been an operation like the one we saw yesterday against El Mencho.
It is important to say this because, of course, there is corruption in Mexico and sometimes even collusion between some authorities and criminals, but there are also thousands of officials risking their lives to defeat the drug traffickers and create a safer Mexico for everyone.

Balance matters.

Even this government has extradited drug traffickers to the US, while Bukele denied extradition to 20 leaders of the M-13, possibly because that was not in the secret agreement or because they know too much.
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This article briefly explains El Salvador's rapprochement with the US, or rather with Trump's US. This is working for both sides at the moment. Bukele's foreign policy brings El Salvador closer to the United States. Although, in the current geopolitical context, it seems to me that the US is using it, not to break with it's Empire tradition, I guess.

Both Milei and Bukele have offered their respective countries to serve as detention centers for criminals unwanted in the US. Part of the rapprochement with Trump is because prisons are also a business. El Salvador's mega-security prison (Terrorism Containment Center, CECOT) has a capacity for 40,000 inmates and is currently at approximately 50% capacity. That is too much unused capacity.


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[Puma]

Because he is not? Next presidential elections are in February 2027, previous ones were in 2024.

El Salvador is entering a period of Perfect Dictatorship , as Mario Vargas Llosa would say. Not a single party, as in the case of Mexico, but a single man or clan, if we take his brothers into account.

We've been there, we've seen it

● Extreme inequality in the campaign
● Massive use of state resources.
● Unequal access to the media
●Electoral reforms that favored the ruling party
● Reduction in the number of seats,
● Changes to the rules just months before the election.

In times of war, anything can change, such as suspending elections due to emergency X or Y.
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Is Putin a dictator? I know is not exactly the same of course but you can see the correlation and parallelism.

Of course it's not the same thing. Bukele sold the Salvadorans an illusion and took over the government. Now, they have a police state, greater security, fewer freedoms, self-censorship, and a state of emergency that suspends constitutional rights such as habeas corpus, freedom of association, and the right to defense. As far as I know, this is not happening in Russia, which is in a real state of emergency and even in danger of ceasing to exist as a nation.
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[cholas]

Drifting off topic? Maybe start a new Bukele thread?

 

[Navigator]

Drifting off topic? Maybe start a new Bukele thread?

We already have one: Nayib Bukele, the savior of El Salvador?

 

[Beau]

We already have one: Nayib Bukele, the savior of El Salvador?

Posts about Bukele have been moved to his thread from the Mexico discussion.

 

[Niall]

El Salvador is entering a period of Perfect Dictatorship , as Mario Vargas Llosa would say. Not a single party, as in the case of Mexico, but a single man or clan, if we take his brothers into account.

We've been there, we've seen it

● Extreme inequality in the campaign
● Massive use of state resources.
● Unequal access to the media
●Electoral reforms that favored the ruling party
● Reduction in the number of seats,
● Changes to the rules just months before the election.

In times of war, anything can change, such as suspending elections due to emergency X or Y.



Of course it's not the same thing. Bukele sold the Salvadorans an illusion and took over the government. Now, they have a police state, greater security, fewer freedoms, self-censorship, and a state of emergency that suspends constitutional rights such as habeas corpus, freedom of association, and the right to defense. As far as I know, this is not happening in Russia, which is in a real state of emergency and even in danger of ceasing to exist as a nation.
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You're citing El Universal, a mainstream, legacy media, source for all these 'liberal' talking points about abstract 'loss of rights'.

In reality, Bukele is very popular because he made concrete changes that improved the lives of the overwhelming majority of the general population.

I'm open to being proved wrong though. Show us how he 'sold the Salvadorans an illusion'.

 

[Niall]

In a post published here, I gave the reasons why it is not advisable, and I said that the main reason is that the M-13 was a gang in a very small country, while the CJNG is a corporation with military equipment at its disposal and ties to other mafias around the world.

I've heard this argument before from Mexicans. I understand the subtext of what they're saying. They don't want their government to undertake serious action to destroy the cartels because the process would be painful to society at large.

However, narrative-wise, the reasoning that it's a bad idea to really do something about the cartels because 'the cancer has become so bad' seems quite crazy to me. Continuing the analogy, it's like condemning a patient to die.

I hope Mexicans understand that the narco-terrorists won't 'become nicer' the nicer you are to them.

 

[Puma]

I hope Mexicans understand that the narco-terrorists won't 'become nicer' the nicer you are to them.

Well, being nice is over.

During Calderón's term in office (2006-2012), the war on drugs was unleashed, leaving thousands of victims and failing to deliver the expected results because the enemy was at home and within the government: Genaro García Luna, the president's security secretary, was collaborating with the Sinaloa cartel. At the end of 2019, he was arrested in the US on charges of drug trafficking.

During AMLO's term (2018-2024), there was a policy of "hugs, not bullets" implemented first to pacify the country with a strategy of striking at the financial interests that allow the cartels to buy weapons and talks with Washington to prevent the sale of arms; second, waiting for a change in the corrupt Supreme Court of Justice of the nation, which in some cases allowed the cartels to evade justice or affect their financial interests, such as money laundering through companies, fuel theft, and tax evasion; and third, consolidating the Fourth Transformation project and the creation of the National Guard, initially under civilian command.

AMLO warned when Sheinbaum was elected as MORENA's candidate, "I am the soft one, she is the tough one" (or something like that, but that's the idea). With Sheinbaum, the pacifying policy would end once she won the presidency.

The first financial strategy is bearing fruit, and the second has succeeded in changing the Supreme Court. In the latest February polls, Sheinbaum remained at 70% approval, thanks to the defeat of El Mencho. The polls also indicate that people approve of the use of military force against the cartels. The National Guard went from civilian to military command towards the end of AMLO's six-year term, if I remember correctly.

Despite what is thought abroad, the areas most affected by cartel violence are very localized, but the military strategy will not yield the desired results if the US does not have a policy to address its drug addiction and, above all, if the sale of arms is not stopped.


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[Puma]

You're citing El Universal, a mainstream, legacy media, source for all these 'liberal' talking points about abstract 'loss of rights'.

El Universal is a conservative newspaper with very close ties to the oligarchic power structure. In recent years, it has become critical of the Amlo & Sheinbaum administration. On geopolitical issues, it is known for being critical and diverse, with a center-right leaning.

The article in El Universal does not mention Bukele, but rather a period in Mexican history (1929–2000) that I used to illustrate what was called the perfect dictatorship. I could just as easily have used Wikipedia or Grok.
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I'm open to being proved wrong though. Show us how he 'sold the Salvadorans an illusion'.

I only know what various media outlets are reporting, based on investigations in the US and the possible pact between Bukele and the Maras. So yes, let's keep an open mind.

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