Actually I mistyped what I meant to say. I can definitely work with the STS-STO duality as a semi-abstract concept, however as far as believing that there are entire realms of existence or societies that can only be labeled as either one or the other is something I have been a bit skeptical about lately. I look at humanity, I mostly see complex personalities who exhibit both STS as well as STO qualities. From my observations, this group has more or less come up with lists of traits and characteristics that supposedly belong to either side. Wishful thinking, Desires, Wants, Motivation, Taking energy and not giving any back, etc., is called "STS", and to participate in these things is supposedly feeding the STS dynamic and giving more power to the hypothetical STS hierarchy that take these traits to an extreme. And an STO society supposedly (we speculate) thrives on mutual exchange of energy, decentralization, balance, etc. And the idea is that you can't have a society that contains elements of both STS and STO... I have been reading the information provided by this group for awhile now, so don't get me wrong.. it definitely sorta makes sense. I'm just trying to think with a hammer contemplating this whole thing (or like you said... maybe I'm overthinking).
My only issue right now regarding the whole STO-STS thing is wondering where some of the basic elements of humanism come into the picture here. Human nature is the way it is. It is imperfect, but human nature has both good and bad in it and we have a wide spectrum of personalities that range from extremely good to extremely evil with lots of complex shades of gray here. We speculate about how it could be or should be, and have theories about how it was in some distant past, but these are all theories, and we can definitely invoke inspiration from many different areas, but what we see in front of us is what it is, and it is a very complex picture where it's not always so easy to label someone or something a certain way.
I also find it somewhat contradictory that we are using STS traits to be STO... sort of like the old buddhist paradox where you desire to have no desire. I understand that we can only ever be STO candidates as long as we are in third density, but I feel a lot of inner turmoil within myself when I have desires and wants and needs and so on and find myself going after them damn near unconsciously and simultaneously contemplating how I can be more STO, etc. Sometimes when I find myself for a few days completely lacking the desire for something that used to occupy my mind endlessly for years, it feels like a huge time wasting burden has been lifted off my shoulders and I feel relief... but slowly and surely these desires come back and I find myself in inner turmoil and full of contradiction again. Eventually, I rationalize and intellectualize the whole thing.
Well, to be completely blunt with you all, I get mad sometimes that I can't go after what I want and desire because it is considered STS, and I guess this is the root of my skepticism. I think I have a basic inborn sensibility for good and bad.. and if I feel like indulging in something as long as nobody is getting hurt, what's the big deal? I'm not saying I feel like this all the time. The idealist in me won't let me feel like that all the time, but the humanist in me thinks it's okay to indulge, but gradually work towards an ideal and facilitate the life circumstances that will help me move towards that ideal. I am well aware of vampiric feeding of energy and so I try to be mindful of stuff like that. And try not to manipulate or deceive or lie to people.
And to be even more honest with you guys, I guess it boils down to this: I've had a life with many desires and needs that have been unfulfilled (won't give examples.. use your imagination!). I see so many people in the spiritual community living a "spiritual" life but have had the chance to experience and fulfill their desires in the past. I just wonder how much spiritual integrity these same people would have if they never experienced those things. Would they still walk the walk? I am skeptical if they could. It's easy to be spiritual and talk the talk and even walk the walk if you're financially stable or in a more or less fulfilling relationship for example and all your needs are taken care of. How "spiritual" could these same people get when self-preservation is at risk and survival is the name of the game? It just seems sometimes that at our core we are actually animals... carnal beings in our essence.. and all this spiritual, intellectual and mental development that we imagine separates us from our 2nd density friends is all a big lie to hide from ourselves the fact that we would be the same as them if we were presented with circumstances that threaten our sense of self-preservation..
Well, despite my lack of desires unfulfilled, I try to be STO regardless, but I ... just ... can't!... it seems... my wants and desires torment me and I just want to leave all this spiritual stuff behind sometimes and just focus on everything I want and desire and motivate myself to go after those things (and believe me, my wants and desires are very benign.. I don't need much)... but when I do that it just seems off... i usually cringe at myself when I think like that.... but living a life of spiritual integrity is also extremely difficult for me because I feel like I've missed out on what it means to be human and what am I really doing with all this abstract spiritual stuff that goes against the very fabric of existence it seems sometimes (though I totally get that sentiment in the whole gnostic kind of way). So I feel like I'm in some kind of purgatory.
So far all I see possible is being an obyvatel (which I'm not but I'm tryin to be), getting my life organized, and eventually being in a state psychologically where I can be ready for real esoteric development, which I hope to one day be blessed with one day if I play my cards right. I admit I'm kind of selfish in that I care only about my own self development. I understand the whole STO thing and I'm totally into the whole concept, but like gurdjieff said, I think once I get to "self-mastery" level I can't do something worthwhile.
Anyways, just some stream of consciousness typing here.. I don't participate much on this forum because I have ideas like this. And I can't stand hypocrisy and I definitely feel hypocritical a lot of times when I do research on spiritual subjects but simultaneously can't stop thinking about things that are antithetical to these spiritual ideals. I'm always being pulled into a million different directions, all contradicting each other. I've read fourth way works, and I understand what is happening here, but I really don't know where to begin and who to network with (and to be totally frank I don't trust ya'll). I just want to clean my machine, get my diet and health right, do some psychology work, be an obyvatel, and hopefully after many years organizing and mastering mundane life, be in a state where I can do some real esoteric work... but I can't reach that state without also pursuing some basic wants, needs and desires, and motivating myself, and so on (which according to the C's are "STS")... so you can understand my frustration when I read in the transcripts that "want is STS" or "it is STS to desire" or "motivation is STS" and so on... I don't know what to do with that information. Am I supposed to just sit under a tree for the rest of my life and hope my desires and wants fade away?!
I do understand we are what we are (STS beings) and we can't be otherwise, but sometimes it seems we are supposed to deny our nature in favor of something ideal but unreachable, so what do we do? Doesn't it seem contradictory that we're promotng something that is antithetical to what we truly are in our core?
Not to mention it IS kind of suspect that an entire society can only be labeled STS or STO. Sounds like a scam to me at this point. consciousness is too complex to be put into one of these labels. I hear a person pouring their soul out in whichever form they feel comfortable and I don't see "STS" or "STO" at all... I see a complex personality that is trying their best to self-actualize.
With that being said, I adit that "STO-STS" concept is a useful concept to work with and contemplate, as well as all the characteristics associcated with them and so on, but as far as labeling EVERYTHING in "this is too STS" or this is "STO" and so on is off the mark and I hope we can transcend such things. Anyways, I'm done here.
