NeuroFeedback and Electroencephalography

Ysus

Jedi
FOTCM Member
I had perhaps 15 or 20 neurofeedback sessions in 2011 (motivated after reading about it in the book “Primal Body, Primal Mind” by Nora.T. Gedgaudas .

I had already been feeling quite together prior to the sessions (for various reasons - one major one being the cutting out of gluten and dairy - back in 2006, which made a huge difference) but felt the need to look for something that would help my brain to function more reliably and for longer stretches of time. I felt (and that hasn’t changed much) that it is very much a matter of having to be ultra strict with what I eat and drink, how much or little I move the body and what thought and emotions I dwell on.

I have to manage myself rather well to sustain my thinking capacity and what neurofeedback did for me was indeed:
enabling me to think more clearly for greater stretches of time - sometimes to the point of experiencing something I’d describe as “razor sharp moments” (“razor sharp” for my somewhat modest standards that is…), which occasionally resulted in an internal “chaser-outsmarter” scenario: me eager to squeeze my brain for more and my brain trying to make me believe it’s too fragile, weak or indisposed to work, when, really, it was probably just starting to get a bit tired but certainly didn’t need to be spared.

Perhaps in some ways comparable to going into cold water and the body telling you off and accusing you of damaging it and demanding that you stop immediately and take it to safety - when you know perfectly well it’s the early warning system at play, no real danger - but it takes quite a lot of determination to ignore the loud screeches and protests. And then there is this moment (still astounds me) when that “protest wall” is broken and one’s body resigns, meekly subordinates
itself to one’s better judgment and shuts up or at least tones down considerably.

Neurofeedback was certainly pivotal to the successful retrieval of many a buried thought treasure and for enabling me to make new connections - (and more reliable ones for that matter) where I hadn’t been able to make them earlier.

I “used” my better wired brain mainly for putting many processes and dynamics into creative form. I often say I put my whole life and observations into some form or other over the course of about 8 years (working most concentratedly for ca. 4 to 5 years - which involved a lot of data collecting. I am probably going to have a few top up sessions but don’t think I will need many.
 

Meg

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Had my 4th NO session yesterday at 1pm. I was a little emotional during the session, I didn't notice anything particular other than a bit of a headache in my frontal lobe as I was driving home that lasted a minute or two. About 6pm, I was really excited about who-knows-what, I felt happy and energetic. It continued until about 7pm or so. I slept pretty deeply and long - about 10 hours. I dreamed, but don't remember any of them.

There is something else I've noticed, not sure how to explain it well, but I've perceived some people as threats, some of it was conscious, some unconscious and that program has been greatly reduced. I am not as afraid of getting feedback from people and am more trusting, not as suspicious. I've also noticed an overall reduction in anxiety and I feel more stable. I am excited to see what happens next :cool2:
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Meg said:
Had my 4th NO session yesterday at 1pm. I was a little emotional during the session, I didn't notice anything particular other than a bit of a headache in my frontal lobe as I was driving home that lasted a minute or two. About 6pm, I was really excited about who-knows-what, I felt happy and energetic. It continued until about 7pm or so. I slept pretty deeply and long - about 10 hours. I dreamed, but don't remember any of them.

There is something else I've noticed, not sure how to explain it well, but I've perceived some people as threats, some of it was conscious, some unconscious and that program has been greatly reduced. I am not as afraid of getting feedback from people and am more trusting, not as suspicious. I've also noticed an overall reduction in anxiety and I feel more stable. I am excited to see what happens next :cool2:
Thanks Meg and everyone who has shared their experiences.

Reading all the feedback makes it easier to know what to expect from the NO sessions. If I have the opportunity at the next NE meet-up to try a session, it is nice to know the reactions seem to be generally mild such as "a bit of a headache in my frontal lobe as I was driving home that lasted a minute or two."

Since I will be driving home afterwards is good to know things like that. :cool2: :)
 

seek10

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I did my first NO session yesterday. It took some time for me hookup for the first time and play around the software. I felt like closing the eyes during the session and more or less zoned out during session. I felt like intense calmness at the end. It has been a while i felt like so calmer. I also felt my mind wandered into certain thoughts or events of the day pretty voluntarily which surprised me. Pre-baseline and post baseline analysis shows some improvements, though i haven't yet figured out reading all the numbers and graphs. I had some improvement in sleep, particularly panic attacks didn't felt that bad. The calmness i felt reminded me of how felt after deep trance meditation or Dick Sutphen CD's after prolonged stress. I used to feel like eyes moving left to right while doing Dick Sutphen CD's with closed eyes. It is the same observations but much stronger and calmer.

Even at the work, i felt much more calmer today, even though i felt triggered to react for the usual dis-functionality of the environment.I felt reduction in some blockages i observed when i try to concentrated. As a whole, pretty positive experience.
 

Alejo

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Had my first session two days ago... and I was trying to set up the software and hardware so I’m not 100% sure I set it up correctly and my pre and post baselines were rather far apart (like 400 points in divergence difference) and this was probably due to the fact that I was reading instructions and doing it at the same time.

During the session I pretty much sat there with my eyes opened looking around my room and wondering if I had done this properly, once I relaxed I started to feel an odd sensation in my head right after the breaks in music would occurr... like if my brain was moving around slowly, which was rather interesting but I’m also aware that I might’ve created this sensation due to my expectations, regardless it was interesting nonetheless.

Right after I was rather hungry and in a great mood, that night my brain felt cozy and “happy” to go to sleep... which took almost no effort and it didn’t feel like knocking out... it was a rather smooth falling asleep. The next morning I felt less anxious... more willing to take on the world and the stress at work, said stress was less paralyzing, emotions which usually would take over (fear, anger) weren’t powerful at all... felt less inclined to waste time and my speech was less mumbled (subtly but noticeable to me)

Today I feel more assertive (subtly) and capable... again, this could all be something I’ve created like a placebo, but even if it’s a placebo it’s quite incredible!

It occurred to me the other night that... in order for this practice to have a long lasting effect, one should have done some work and be aware of oneself to an extent so that some of these thinking errors and brain patterns are known, even if untackleable, to your conscious awake mind.

Some of our programs are stored in our muscles and posture and we can work on those with excercise and discipline and even massages, but it stands to logic that some of them would be stored as brain wave patterns, so having them at least identified would bring them to the fore to be addressed by the practice.

I hope the above makes sense, the way I understand neurofeedback is that it’s like putting a mirror in front of your brain so it goes “ohhh man! I’ve looked like that this long? Let me fix that!” But if you put the mirror but also point it towards an area that is hurting or bothering you then it’s like neurofeedback with an added goal. Does that make sense?
 

Michal

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Hi,

I made 6 sessions until now with neurofeedback. In my area although it is rather large city as for Poland (Trojmiasto area) neurofeedback is still a niche. I found that there are some clinical applications available but they are allotted to people/children with some illnesses and in general are meant as a supportive therapy for those, working on prescription or so.

Equipment which I am using is elMiko with 4 electrodes and normally working on 2 electrodes and 2 attached to my ears. 12-pack costs almost 900 PLN which stands for approx. 200 euro.

First session was with 4 electrodes on my scalp :) and two on ears. After first check my "waves" were average like this:
1. Delta wave: average: F3 20.30, F4 22.81; C3 16.92; C4 17.29
2. Theta wave: average: F3 9.18; F4 8.94; C3 8.06; C4 7.54;
3. Alpha wave: average: F3 5.31; F4 5.15; C3 5.87; C4 5.69;
4. SMR wave: average: F3 3.63; F4 3.41; C3 3.24; C4 3.43;
5. Beta wave: average: F3 4.96; F4 4.72; C3 4.99; C4 4.91;
6. Beta2 wave (21-35Hz): average: F3 5.28; F4 5.27; C3 5.10; C4 4.88;
all values in micro Volts. As I understand F stand for frontal and C for central which was placement of electrodes.
I just know as I was told that I make progress whatever that means :). I got 6 more sessions.

I asked if they know about Neuroptimal but they have not heard.
For the time being I do not feel anything noticeable to me. Will report after further 6 sessions and let You know.
 

Zar

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
I've done 5 sessions so far and have my 6th tomorrow though I may cancel due to potential heavy snowfall. After the 4rth and 5fth I experienced a wave of fatigue and am still a little tired. Aside from that I've noticed that I can think much clearer and am pretty calm. And also I think my memory has improved.
 

beetlemaniac

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
I recently spoke to an NO practitioner based in Singapore (_https://www.claritynfocus.com/), and they are available for sessions.

Their sessions cost 85 SGD (52.38 Euro) and they run around 50 minutes each.

They are open from morning up to 8 pm.
 

Bobo08

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
I've done two sessions so far on Thursday evening and Saturday morning. I plan to continue doing one session every 36 hours so that I can fit 20 sessions into 1 month.

I didn't notice anything during or right after the first session. However, on the second night (Friday night), I woke up very early (about 2am) and couldn't go back to sleep. It did happen occasionally before so it might be unrelated. I will pay attention to that to confirm.

The second session was more interesting. About 1 hour after the session, I had the feeling like walking on a cloud and my arms grew weak. It came to a point where I almost had to consciously direct my arms and legs what to do. The whole thing lasted about 1 hour then I was back to normal.

On pre and post baseline analysis, both my and my daughter's divergence scores went up significantly after the sessions (mine from 267 to 413, my daughter's from 135 to 343). Will see if they will come down after a few sessions.
 

Alana

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I had my 5th session last Wednesday, and my practitioner said that she was very pleased, because during the session my brain seemed to have worked a lot. She said that my pre-session baseline was very low, and then increased after the session, and that all other parameters showed an overall balance in the end. When I asked whether this meant that my brain is not as calm as it was before, she said that it means only that my brain now has more energy to work with, because before it looked very tired.

In my own experience, and listening to the music this time, I felt relaxed during the session, but at the same time, I could observe that my brain was very active. I just lied there, feeling emotionally and bodily relaxed, yet observing my brain going from one subject to the other, chattering away. When it was over I felt like I could take a nap, but we had a 45 minutes ride back home. While in the car, I suddenly started feeling nauseus and as if about to have an anxiety attack. I focused my attention on the beautiful scenery we were passing by, and did some grounding along with pipe-breathing. That seemed to have helped with relieving the intensity of the feeling, but the crappy mood has been with me since. Negative emotions, mulling, a sense of impending doom, "I don't give a damn about anything" along with feeling overly emotional at the drop of a hat, exhausted but unable to sleep well at night, and if I do get some sleep, it is full of very busy dreams.

So, as others have mentioned already, not all sessions will feel like :D :love: :grad: :wizard: :cheer: afterwards, some might also feel like :cry: :mad: :evil: :headbash: :whlchair:
Pipe-breathing, grounding and just knowing that it is part of the process, helps a little I find.

Alejo said:
once I relaxed I started to feel an odd sensation in my head right after the breaks in music would occurr... like if my brain was moving around slowly, which was rather interesting but I’m also aware that I might’ve created this sensation due to my expectations, regardless it was interesting nonetheless.
I've felt something similar too, in all my sessions when I listen to the music instead of watching a movie, and I too wondered if it was expectation-based or just observation. Everytime there's a click/pause in the music, I feel waves in my brain, for lack of better terms.
 

Meg

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
goyacobol said:
Meg said:
Had my 4th NO session yesterday at 1pm. I was a little emotional during the session, I didn't notice anything particular other than a bit of a headache in my frontal lobe as I was driving home that lasted a minute or two. About 6pm, I was really excited about who-knows-what, I felt happy and energetic. It continued until about 7pm or so. I slept pretty deeply and long - about 10 hours. I dreamed, but don't remember any of them.

There is something else I've noticed, not sure how to explain it well, but I've perceived some people as threats, some of it was conscious, some unconscious and that program has been greatly reduced. I am not as afraid of getting feedback from people and am more trusting, not as suspicious. I've also noticed an overall reduction in anxiety and I feel more stable. I am excited to see what happens next :cool2:
Thanks Meg and everyone who has shared their experiences.

Reading all the feedback makes it easier to know what to expect from the NO sessions. If I have the opportunity at the next NE meet-up to try a session, it is nice to know the reactions seem to be generally mild such as "a bit of a headache in my frontal lobe as I was driving home that lasted a minute or two."

Since I will be driving home afterwards is good to know things like that. :cool2: :)
Yes, it's fascinating to read how NO sessions affect each person differently, too. If you are able to have some sessions over the next few months, I'd highly recommend it. It's really an amazing tool in working on the self. I am pretty impressed with it so far.
 

Yas

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Alana said:
I had my 5th session last Wednesday, and my practitioner said that she was very pleased, because during the session my brain seemed to have worked a lot. She said that my pre-session baseline was very low, and then increased after the session, and that all other parameters showed an overall balance in the end. When I asked whether this meant that my brain is not as calm as it was before, she said that it means only that my brain now has more energy to work with, because before it looked very tired.
Interesting, Alana, that's similar to what my Dr. said after my first session. She said that my brain (and I) looked really tired or "down" and that it started working with NO.

Alana said:
So, as others have mentioned already, not all sessions will feel like :D :love: :grad: :wizard: :cheer: afterwards, some might also feel like :cry: :mad: :evil: :headbash: :whlchair:
Pipe-breathing, grounding and just knowing that it is part of the process, helps a little I find.
I can imagine... Even though I only had one session, what I can say is that, right after it I felt great, relaxed but awake, less anxious and a particular sensation of having less "weight" on my head. But then the next days I felt physically and mentally tired, as well as a bit moody. I do feel less "background anxiety" to put a name to that "weight" I mentioned, but I noticed myself being a bit more irritable these last few days. I thought the tiredness could be due to a lot of work, yet, I was wondering if I had the flu or something because I don't usually feel this tired even with lots of work. And I also felt very hungry.

I always heard/read that our brain actually uses most of our energy resources, so my guess is that our "waking brains" are demanding more energy and our bodies are adapting to these new requirements... and that's why some can feel tired, sleepy and hungry. But that's just a guess :rolleyes:
 

Zadius Sky

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Yesterday, I had the opportunity to experience my first NeurOptimal session.

When the session started, I was worried about hearing the music since I'd had to take my hearing aid off to put the ear piece in. The volume settings were re-set to maximum and the music were still very very faint. Throughout the session, I did not experience anything other than having struggled to hear the music (ending up with a minor headaches). I was not able to pick up any "clicks".

After the session, I was shown the pre- and post-baseline (something like 8 and 22, respectively), which showed that my brain was working hard. A number of hours later, my eyes started getting heavy and strained enough that I needed to go to sleep. Then, I woke up around 4AM and couldn't go back to sleep. I felt pretty energetic this morning and when I arrived home after a long trip, it was like "bam!" I hit the bed and took a long nap. I didn't feel hungry at all today.

What made this one different from my previous four sessions with the Othmer method is having woken up at 4AM as a result from NO session. With the Othmer method, I only slept longer than usual (roughly 9-10 hours).
 

Luks

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Michal said:
Hi,

I made 6 sessions until now with neurofeedback. In my area although it is rather large city as for Poland (Trojmiasto area) neurofeedback is still a niche. I found that there are some clinical applications available but they are allotted to people/children with some illnesses and in general are meant as a supportive therapy for those, working on prescription or so.

Equipment which I am using is elMiko with 4 electrodes and normally working on 2 electrodes and 2 attached to my ears. 12-pack costs almost 900 PLN which stands for approx. 200 euro.

First session was with 4 electrodes on my scalp :) and two on ears. After first check my "waves" were average like this:
1. Delta wave: average: F3 20.30, F4 22.81; C3 16.92; C4 17.29
2. Theta wave: average: F3 9.18; F4 8.94; C3 8.06; C4 7.54;
3. Alpha wave: average: F3 5.31; F4 5.15; C3 5.87; C4 5.69;
4. SMR wave: average: F3 3.63; F4 3.41; C3 3.24; C4 3.43;
5. Beta wave: average: F3 4.96; F4 4.72; C3 4.99; C4 4.91;
6. Beta2 wave (21-35Hz): average: F3 5.28; F4 5.27; C3 5.10; C4 4.88;
all values in micro Volts. As I understand F stand for frontal and C for central which was placement of electrodes.
I just know as I was told that I make progress whatever that means :). I got 6 more sessions.

I asked if they know about Neuroptimal but they have not heard.
For the time being I do not feel anything noticeable to me. Will report after further 6 sessions and let You know.
What is the name of the company??
 

Foxx

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Yesterday I had my 9th NeurOptimal session. This time, I tried out the "auto nav" function, which is apparently a more dynamic method for determining the instances when the NO will generate the pauses in the music.

The first thing I noticed was that there were significantly fewer audible pauses in the music--maybe 6 or so that I could hear. I felt relaxed, but not sleepy, during and after the session and more present in what was going on around me afterwards. I've felt somewhat groggy, perhaps just from nearly falling asleep during some sessions, but didn't feel that way this time (but not really energized either).

Around the evening, I was very tired--I was practicing Reiki on someone and listening to relaxing music and was nearly falling asleep. After the Reiki was finished, I woke back up but was dead tired later in the evening--like dragging my body to bed tired, which is a pretty unusual for me. I fell asleep pretty quickly for me, but not super fast, and woke up after maybe 8.5-9 hours feeling better in general, but still fairly tired overall (not terribly unusual).

Overall I feel like I'm still seeing gains in stress reduction and general comfort in my own skin and in potentially stressful situations.
 
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