NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography
- Thread starter williamsj
- Start date
Y'all have a look at this article:
Can DNA be reprogrammed with words? -- Sott.net
This may be another way that NO can help to change a person's life.
Can DNA be reprogrammed with words? -- Sott.net
This may be another way that NO can help to change a person's life.
Thank you, @Meg, @Gandalf and @Laura - I appreciate this very much. Yes, let me carry on with Raine and Samenow next. I am not sure about muscle testing so will follow the recommended order, starting with Raine.
Just attended my 9th session and have to say that this neurofeedback thing is really drawing me in. It is difficult to predict these things but I feel that a good couple of dozen sessions would be in order for me.
The effects are subtle but most definitely incremental, which is in alignment with the guidance provided by the counselor. Things like improved ability to cope with stressful situations, a certain feeling of lightness in the spirit - like a major burden is shifting. Also, reduced social anxiety and an improved sense of humour! A more outgoing, better adjusted, better functioning person.
After the initial period of adjustment to both the neurofeedback and the talking sessions, I began to enjoy them. The two-pronged approach works well for me - a person with unresolved childhood dramas and past relationship concerns. Neurofeedback appears to take that to the next level and really gets at the stale parts of the psyche that may not be easily verbalised.
I did the talking bear, the crying, the self-introspection - discovering the awful internal critic and learnt some techniques to deal with anxiety. Now I am on the look-out for the bad wolf being fed, instead of the good wolf. All that stuff. It is kind of banal and prescriptive, I guess. But I benefited from it - rather than reading about the process, I underwent the process and applied it to my own circumstances, under a guidance of an impartial person.
Neurofeedback kind of supercharged all that...
So now, I am at a stage where we stopped the chats. In fact, the last two meetings were all about neuro and I was keen to dive straight in. Apparently, this is OK, too - these types of sessions evolve over time and the focus shifts as required. Great.
Today, I had the first go at v3 of the software - apparently, there is a new version and it is supposed to take things to the next level. I was not sure what to expect and the counsellor asked me to watch the visualisations this time - while listening to the music. To be honest, I prefer not to look at the screen and like to close my eyes to just dive right in. I find the flashing graphics distracting from the relaxation aspect of the process.
Nevertheless, I gave it a go in the beginning - unfortunately, the software soon exited the full-screen visualisation mode and started to display the raw brain scans. Probably not what was intended - and too full on - so I dived back into my preferred mode: eyes closed, relaxing, just going with the flow.
The new version of the software seems to have more dramatic breaks in the audio stimulus. They are more pronounced and longer in places - apparently, this was intended to enhance the effect on the brain waves. Either way, a good experience and I will be doing it again soon.
I accelerated the sessions again prior to the upcoming travel commitments at work.
Just attended my 9th session and have to say that this neurofeedback thing is really drawing me in. It is difficult to predict these things but I feel that a good couple of dozen sessions would be in order for me.
The effects are subtle but most definitely incremental, which is in alignment with the guidance provided by the counselor. Things like improved ability to cope with stressful situations, a certain feeling of lightness in the spirit - like a major burden is shifting. Also, reduced social anxiety and an improved sense of humour! A more outgoing, better adjusted, better functioning person.
After the initial period of adjustment to both the neurofeedback and the talking sessions, I began to enjoy them. The two-pronged approach works well for me - a person with unresolved childhood dramas and past relationship concerns. Neurofeedback appears to take that to the next level and really gets at the stale parts of the psyche that may not be easily verbalised.
I did the talking bear, the crying, the self-introspection - discovering the awful internal critic and learnt some techniques to deal with anxiety. Now I am on the look-out for the bad wolf being fed, instead of the good wolf. All that stuff. It is kind of banal and prescriptive, I guess. But I benefited from it - rather than reading about the process, I underwent the process and applied it to my own circumstances, under a guidance of an impartial person.
Neurofeedback kind of supercharged all that...
So now, I am at a stage where we stopped the chats. In fact, the last two meetings were all about neuro and I was keen to dive straight in. Apparently, this is OK, too - these types of sessions evolve over time and the focus shifts as required. Great.
Today, I had the first go at v3 of the software - apparently, there is a new version and it is supposed to take things to the next level. I was not sure what to expect and the counsellor asked me to watch the visualisations this time - while listening to the music. To be honest, I prefer not to look at the screen and like to close my eyes to just dive right in. I find the flashing graphics distracting from the relaxation aspect of the process.
Nevertheless, I gave it a go in the beginning - unfortunately, the software soon exited the full-screen visualisation mode and started to display the raw brain scans. Probably not what was intended - and too full on - so I dived back into my preferred mode: eyes closed, relaxing, just going with the flow.
The new version of the software seems to have more dramatic breaks in the audio stimulus. They are more pronounced and longer in places - apparently, this was intended to enhance the effect on the brain waves. Either way, a good experience and I will be doing it again soon.
I accelerated the sessions again prior to the upcoming travel commitments at work.
By now I have done about 16 sessions of NO, and as I wrote before I haven’t felt any difference subjectively.
However ...
... I have been doing EE since it’s inception, sometimes more and sometimes less diligently. The first two years I felt it has some clear benefits, but over time it seemed to me that this leveled off. The last two years I couldn’t derive any pleasure from doing it - it was a bit like running: You don’t look forward, it’s a slog, but you feel good for having pushed through after that. it certainly always had a calming effect. But I didn’t look forward doing it. Sometimes I struggled with the pipe breathing, sometimes with the bioenergetic breathing. Anyway, to sum it up - it wasn’t fun, more a duty.
When I did EE on Monday, it felt different. I actually derived some pleasure while doing it, especially the bioenergetic portion,which I normally dread. At the time I thought it was a fluke.
I did another EE session tonight, and again, it felt pleasurable, again mostly the bioenergetic portion. And towards the end of it I had waves of ... hard to describe ... “pleasure” or “joy” or “ecstasy” flow through my body, BUT without the emotional aspect, it was a purely bodily sensation.
So after having had this effect twice the timing made me think that this might well be an effect of NO. So for me it seems to work on quite a subtle level, because again, subjectively I don’t seem to feel any direct effect that I could attribute to NO.
Rather interesting ...
However ...
... I have been doing EE since it’s inception, sometimes more and sometimes less diligently. The first two years I felt it has some clear benefits, but over time it seemed to me that this leveled off. The last two years I couldn’t derive any pleasure from doing it - it was a bit like running: You don’t look forward, it’s a slog, but you feel good for having pushed through after that. it certainly always had a calming effect. But I didn’t look forward doing it. Sometimes I struggled with the pipe breathing, sometimes with the bioenergetic breathing. Anyway, to sum it up - it wasn’t fun, more a duty.
When I did EE on Monday, it felt different. I actually derived some pleasure while doing it, especially the bioenergetic portion,which I normally dread. At the time I thought it was a fluke.
I did another EE session tonight, and again, it felt pleasurable, again mostly the bioenergetic portion. And towards the end of it I had waves of ... hard to describe ... “pleasure” or “joy” or “ecstasy” flow through my body, BUT without the emotional aspect, it was a purely bodily sensation.
So after having had this effect twice the timing made me think that this might well be an effect of NO. So for me it seems to work on quite a subtle level, because again, subjectively I don’t seem to feel any direct effect that I could attribute to NO.
Rather interesting ...
Now, after my 21st session, I begin to see some observable changes in the screen representations of what is going on in my brain. We don't know what all that means, but wanted to report it. Up to now, it's been up and down all over. And the same with my states. I suspect that with some people - myself included - 20 sessions is just to get to a good working level.
38 sessions so far and the changes in the screen are really unbelievable. Let's say that up to 25, the horizontal bars were going everywhere and were very large. Now they are very small and very very close to the main vertical bar.
And this is our last day of our rental equipment. I will write a summary part 2 in a couple of weeks after that everyone in our group had the time to share their observations but everyone is very happy and has some good to excellents results.
Just for the record, more than 200 sessions will have been done in our home. It has been a very occupied month.
Wow! Gandalf, did you rent the tablet? I rented the NeurOptimal equipment a little over a week ago and I got the tablet version where you can listen to the music and see some images on the screen during session, but it doesn't give you access to any of the graph's or measurements of brainwave activity. Not like the clinic's in house version, which seems to provide more data showing what brain wave activity and patterns are occurring during the session. Although they don't follow or report on any pre or post-baselines. I asked about that when I was doing the sessions there, and they had said that information isn't really useful overall so they don't go by it. They prefer to measure and give information about brainwave levels, like beta, theta, alpha, etc. That the baselines can be skewed based on other things in the environment, like EMF's.
Hi Turgon,
We rented the unlimited version which means that we have graphs and everything. The version with a limited number of sessions (300) does not have graphs.
Divide by Zero
The Living Force
Interesting, I did not know that smaller bars meant better or not.
I had the same thing happen about 15 or so sessions in. I was thinking that the sensors were not properly placed (but a few times I redid the ones in the hair) or the device was losing sensitivity.
nature
Dagobah Resident
Hi Turgon, I confirm about the baselines. According to Zengar, it's not a consistent tool for tracking progress. They prefer clinical evaluation reported by client (your feelings, your symptomes, your goals, etc) . My practitionner showed me the baseline stuff just to check if the sessions have any effect on me despite my hearing loss. The bars are a good tool too, as Gandalf explained.
Hi Nicklebleu,
If you don’t hear any clicks when doing the session at home, the mostl likely explanation is that one of the reference electrodes (blue/ black) doesn’t have good contact.
I think you're right, I notice the electrodes don't hold well when I remove them at the end of the session. I'll have to put more glue (not funny), or shave a little area where I put the electrodes. Your idea about using other electrodes is good.
The clicks should move with the volume, I don’t think you can “drown them out”.
Indeed, Zengar confirmed me that increasing the musik volume increases the cliks' volume too. Unfortunately, they don't have a protocole for clients with hearing loss. Maybe for a next version? They said that hearing the clicks (or micro-breaks in musik) is important and necessary, as it's the feedback.
It's also possible that I don't hear them because they are masked by my tinnitus. That's why I do 2 sessions/ day, in order to get more opportunities to catch them. This night, I woke up at 2 o'clocks (I rarely have sleep problem) and was unable to sleep again. So, I've done a NO session at night! I passed at the "extented session" which lasts 45 minutes. I was so happy I heard some cliks that I've repeated the session, as I haven't other things to do at the middle of the night. 1:30 of continuous session this night ! I'll see today if there is progress (on the bars length) . My practionner recommended me to do sessions gradually, "initial" then "second" then "third" before getting to "regular" . I think it was a waste of time. I asked Zengar and they say it's better to begin directly at "regular".
I've done about 45 sessions, without any change. Now I passed at "extended" duration and heard a bit more clicks, I think progress will have chance to ensue. Zengar confirmed that one can do 2 sessions per day, that the 2 days interval between sessions is a myth (with the NO device).
I have the unit for a month, but maybe a month might not be enough time to get that old brain sorted. We’ll see!
Yes, keep perseveration.
Hi Nicklebleu,
If you don’t hear any clicks when doing the session at home, the mostl likely explanation is that one of the reference electrodes (blue/ black) doesn’t have good contact.
I think you're right, I notice the electrodes don't hold well when I remove them at the end of the session. I'll have to put more glue (not funny), or shave a little area where I put the electrodes. Your idea about using other electrodes is good.
The clicks should move with the volume, I don’t think you can “drown them out”.
Indeed, Zengar confirmed me that increasing the musik volume increases the cliks' volume too. Unfortunately, they don't have a protocole for clients with hearing loss. Maybe for a next version? They said that hearing the clicks (or micro-breaks in musik) is important and necessary, as it's the feedback.
It's also possible that I don't hear them because they are masked by my tinnitus. That's why I do 2 sessions/ day, in order to get more opportunities to catch them. This night, I woke up at 2 o'clocks (I rarely have sleep problem) and was unable to sleep again. So, I've done a NO session at night! I passed at the "extented session" which lasts 45 minutes. I was so happy I heard some cliks that I've repeated the session, as I haven't other things to do at the middle of the night. 1:30 of continuous session this night ! I'll see today if there is progress (on the bars length) . My practionner recommended me to do sessions gradually, "initial" then "second" then "third" before getting to "regular" . I think it was a waste of time. I asked Zengar and they say it's better to begin directly at "regular".
I've done about 45 sessions, without any change. Now I passed at "extended" duration and heard a bit more clicks, I think progress will have chance to ensue. Zengar confirmed that one can do 2 sessions per day, that the 2 days interval between sessions is a myth (with the NO device).
I have the unit for a month, but maybe a month might not be enough time to get that old brain sorted. We’ll see!
Yes, keep perseveration.
So, finally, you hear some clicks. That's good! Perhaps you could also try adding another type of music? I wonder if that would help. And replacing the electrodes would also be good, probably, at least as a test. In any case, I hope you start noticing positive differences like many of us do.
From what I've been hearing from Artemis who is reading "Symphony in the Brain", it appears that NO, over time, can help a lot of physical ailments resolve, AND immunize the person against many kinds of sickness including against toxins of various kinds. One wonders if it can induce the brain to coordinate with the body to heal such things as deafness, assuming structure is amenable?
nature
Dagobah Resident
Thank you Laura and Chu for your encouragements!
Yes, there are some other musics I hear better than Zengar's one, and yesterday I didn't need tu put the volume at the max while listening to an opera song (I increased but not to the max). That night's non-stop 1h30 full session had been an amazing step; In the day, I made a session and the bars' lenght were a bit less long! So, henceforth, I'll experiment continuous sessions, say 3 hours while reading, and see what that gives.
Yes, there are some other musics I hear better than Zengar's one, and yesterday I didn't need tu put the volume at the max while listening to an opera song (I increased but not to the max). That night's non-stop 1h30 full session had been an amazing step; In the day, I made a session and the bars' lenght were a bit less long! So, henceforth, I'll experiment continuous sessions, say 3 hours while reading, and see what that gives.
SMM
The Living Force
Just chiming in with a summary of the experience so far. Back around mid-January, I had 2 neurofeedback sessions. The first one was a traditional QEEG neurofeedback with Brainworks following an initial assessment. The assessor said that there were indications of energy level issues and that the lower brain regions had difficulty communicating with the higher brain regions. I’ll share the report below as an attachment for future discussion.
I felt significantly calmer after the session. It may have been that the nervousness of having the session and how it was going to go had gone.
The second session was a NeurOptimal session. I found a practitioner around 2.5 hours away by car. It was a good session. I felt more embodied and grounded and energized. Not so much calmer, yet better able to focus. During the session, I did some pipe breaths, experimented with negative thinking vs. positive thinking and closing vs. opening my eyes.
A lot of what others have written about what they experienced during the first few sessions rings true for me too. I was reading The Idea of History around the time I did the NO session, maybe it helped me finish that quicker? It’s possible
We have purchased a NeurOptimal Personal system. My family and others in the community could benefit from this potentially. The NO practitioner I did a session with doesn’t have a rental unit and the distance to the practitioner doesn’t make it easy to have a set of weekly sessions with them.
So far, I have had 2 sessions and the results have been nothing short of amazing! Most of what others have written about their experiences during this experiment are hit remarkably close to home – from a feeling of lightness to trouble sleeping after sessions. After the first of these 2 recent sessions, I tried to sleep and couldn’t and felt a low level of aggravation. I had work following that, and I noticed feeling calmer and more put together. Things that typically phase me significantly don't have as much impact. The mind chatter has reduced notably.
For the second session, I did an extended version. I slept little although well apparently as the next day I had much energy to do tasks even after work to help around the house as we are painting and doing home renovations.
The most dramatic change overall is my ability to pay attention and focus, better memory retention, less rigid thinking – being able to access and choose alternative interpretations and ways of doing and being - and improved energy levels. I suppose this translates and effects all areas in turn; I communicate more and better and I have the physical energy to do things and get them done.
I plan to do the sessions every day or every other day up to 20 sessions and then review the results and frequency of sessions. Others in the family will be having sessions 2-3 days per week, unless otherwise preferred.
I remember 4 years ago when I initially considered neurofeedback and put it to one side due to lack of funds and wish I had done this so much earlier.
As we are using a Personal NO system, I’m glad I took an initial QEEG assessment as this will help with comparison of before and after in some ways OSIT. I will continue to share results of my own, the family’s and others who have consented to sharing their experiences regularly.
Also, I donated to FOTCM towards a NO unit. Reading everyone’s posts has been nothing short of amazing, inspiring and enlightening. If there are more and other ways I can contribute I’ll continue to do so
Thank you so much wholeheartedly for your persistent efforts and shining light on the truth!
I felt significantly calmer after the session. It may have been that the nervousness of having the session and how it was going to go had gone.
The second session was a NeurOptimal session. I found a practitioner around 2.5 hours away by car. It was a good session. I felt more embodied and grounded and energized. Not so much calmer, yet better able to focus. During the session, I did some pipe breaths, experimented with negative thinking vs. positive thinking and closing vs. opening my eyes.
A lot of what others have written about what they experienced during the first few sessions rings true for me too. I was reading The Idea of History around the time I did the NO session, maybe it helped me finish that quicker? It’s possible
We have purchased a NeurOptimal Personal system. My family and others in the community could benefit from this potentially. The NO practitioner I did a session with doesn’t have a rental unit and the distance to the practitioner doesn’t make it easy to have a set of weekly sessions with them.
So far, I have had 2 sessions and the results have been nothing short of amazing! Most of what others have written about their experiences during this experiment are hit remarkably close to home – from a feeling of lightness to trouble sleeping after sessions. After the first of these 2 recent sessions, I tried to sleep and couldn’t and felt a low level of aggravation. I had work following that, and I noticed feeling calmer and more put together. Things that typically phase me significantly don't have as much impact. The mind chatter has reduced notably.
For the second session, I did an extended version. I slept little although well apparently as the next day I had much energy to do tasks even after work to help around the house as we are painting and doing home renovations.
The most dramatic change overall is my ability to pay attention and focus, better memory retention, less rigid thinking – being able to access and choose alternative interpretations and ways of doing and being - and improved energy levels. I suppose this translates and effects all areas in turn; I communicate more and better and I have the physical energy to do things and get them done.
I plan to do the sessions every day or every other day up to 20 sessions and then review the results and frequency of sessions. Others in the family will be having sessions 2-3 days per week, unless otherwise preferred.
I remember 4 years ago when I initially considered neurofeedback and put it to one side due to lack of funds and wish I had done this so much earlier.
As we are using a Personal NO system, I’m glad I took an initial QEEG assessment as this will help with comparison of before and after in some ways OSIT. I will continue to share results of my own, the family’s and others who have consented to sharing their experiences regularly.
Also, I donated to FOTCM towards a NO unit. Reading everyone’s posts has been nothing short of amazing, inspiring and enlightening. If there are more and other ways I can contribute I’ll continue to do so
Thank you so much wholeheartedly for your persistent efforts and shining light on the truth!
