NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

I saw my practitioner this morning: he hasn't got any solution for tinnitus neither hearing loss, as he never had such cases among his clients. So, I'll ask directly to Zengar.
On the other hand, I noticed I hear some clics when I undergo sessions at his office, whereas I don't hear them when I do sessions at home. I guess it's due to the fact that when I do sessions myself, I put the musik at the max volume, thus musik covers the clics. This afternoon, I made another session (at home) and I didn't increase the volume. I heard less musik, sometimes no musik at all, but at least, I felt like I heard some clics. So, I'll continue the sessions without increasing volume, even if it means doing more sessions.
Another thing: the practioner showed me how to get the baseline (pre and post): it's a way to see if the session has been efficient. He showed me that sessions are actually efficients (as baseline droped from 900 (pre) to 500 (post) ).

Aside that, I'm at 30 sessions. I do 2 sessions every day since my last post.
I haven't yet noticed any changes, but as Chu said, some clients need very high number of sessions.
I just notice this, and it seems without sense: after (may minutes or hours after) nearly each session, I feel my face as if it was humid. When I touch it, it's not wet, it's just my feeling. It's not allways easy to know if the symptoms people feel after sessions are related or not.

Gandalf and France: thank you for your reports! It's very encouraging ! And congrats for gathering 12 persons :thup:
 
nature said:
...
Another thing: the practioner showed me how to get the baseline (pre and post): it's a way to see if the session has been efficient. He showed me that sessions are actually efficients (as baseline droped from 900 (pre) to 500 (post) ).

Aside that, I'm at 30 sessions. I do 2 sessions every day since my last post.
Click to expand...
That's interesting, I'm doing 1 session every other day, 30 mins each, and recently my post baseline has been increasing.

I am currently at 14 sessions.
 
nature said:
Another thing: the practioner showed me how to get the baseline (pre and post): it's a way to see if the session has been efficient. He showed me that sessions are actually efficients (as baseline droped from 900 (pre) to 500 (post) ).
Click to expand...
Hi nature,

Could you tell me how to do that please?
 
Yes of course: Baselines don't require the headphones:

1. Pre-baseline:
When you open Neuroptimal, you have a windows where "baseline" is still selected -it appears at the right side. If not, you just have to click on it. hen "session" then "set timings". There's a window with times; it's written "0:30". click on "accept timing". You then see a little square displaying 0:30. It's the 30 seconds for recording a baseline. Then click on "QR" . You'll see the seconds passing. When it arrives at 0:15, you close your eyes. You open them at 0:30 and you'll see a window asking "save" or "not "save". Click on "save". The "analysis".
You'll then see a graph with 2 parts, called spectogram. The upper one is related to the left hemisphere and the lower to the right hemisphere. Between the 2 parts, there is a very little scare with pink points in it. Click on this square. You'll see a very interesting curve: a brocken line with multiple spikes corresponding to traumas (like the clics we hear during the training, but here it's with the form of something visual).
As you move forward the sessions, you'll see this curve becoming more and more smooth and lower. You also see digits appearing on the right side. You'll be able to compare it to the Post-baseline, wich corresponds to the curve (and digits, numbers) after the session training.

2. you wear your headphones and do your training session. Do you know that there are 5 levels of training ( "session initial" , "session second" etc) and thus you can choose the next level.

3. When your training session is finished, you remove your headphones and record the post-baseline:
"baseline" > "session" > "set timing" > "accept timing" > "QR" > close eyes at 0:15 and open them at 0:30 > "save" >"analysis" .
You then get the post-session spectogram.
Then click on the little pink square: you get the post-session curve, with his number at the right side.
To compare pre and post session:
Click on the little square with little yellow billboard (at the top right) and you get the 2 curves (pre and post) and it displays the divergence score. If the score is positive (post lower than pre), the your brain has successfully integrated the information during the session. If not, don't worry, it will occur to the next session.

Please let me know if it's not clear. With photos, it will be clearer. I'll take photos, because there are 1 or 2 other datas you can see on the spectogram like the color (pale green at the first session then orange when you have completed succesfully at the end of the adventure, etc)
 
Prodigal Son said:
That's interesting, I'm doing 1 session every other day, 30 mins each, and recently my post baseline has been increasing.

I am currently at 14 sessions.
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It's no big deal. The post-baseline should be lower than the pre, i.e. the "Difference divergence" should be positive. But sometimes, the post is higher, it just means that the brain had to work hard. Usually, to the next session, the difference divergence comes back to be positive
 
Laura said:
Exactly why I have been urging members to read certain books. I'd have to re-write the darn things to convey all the information in a post so it's just easier to hit a couple of points and get others to read for the full impact.
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Would it be possible to have the latest core list posted in the Books section of the forum?

I'm a little lost here but I'm sure it would help others as well. Healing Developmental Trauma was informative and challenging - what were the other volumes again?

I have continued to attend neurofeedback sessions amd combined them with basic counselling. Wow it is simply amazing! I am developing a real hunger for it. It has only been 8 sessions but it really is making a big difference in my life.

The initial neuro session was hard and I described it in this thread. However, the experience dramatically improved with the second and subsequent sessions. Apparently, this is normal especially when the brain is not used to being "mirrored".

I accelerated the sessions to twice a week but then had to take a break for two weeks. Not just due to travel commitments, the counselling was digging real deep and I just needed time to process the information and discoveries. That, apparently, is also normal - I had some messed up experiences in life, go gently.

Neuro is getting at the preverbal stuff and quite frankly I can't get enough of it. Counselling is helping me verbalise the other stuff and I think this is a very good combination for a person like myself.

Either way, slowly but surely this is making a difference. I'm posting a message on the forum!

As a way to reconnect, I would like to continue reading and hence my request for a rehash of the latest book recommendations. It is a bit embarassing but with all the work travel and trauma processing, I got a bit lost.

:rockon:
 
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adam7117 said:
Would it be possible to have the latest core list posted in the Books section of the forum?

I'm a little lost here but I'm sure it would help others as well. Healing Developmental Trauma was informative and challenging - what were the other volumes again?
Click to expand...
Meg said:
You can find a list of them here on the Collingwood thread.
Collingwood's Idea of History & Speculum Mentis
Click to expand...

And a summary of the latest ones as nicklebeu wrote in that post:

nicklebleu said:
Something like this?

Core reading:

1. Collingwood - Idea of History (here)
2. Collingwood - Speculum Mentis (here)
3. Raine - Anatomy of Violence (here)
4. Samenow - Inside the Criminal Mind (here)
5. Samenow - The Myth of the Out of Character Crime (here)


Extended List:
6. Glenn & Raine - Psychopathy (here)
7. Tamdgidi - Gurdjieff and Hypnosis (here)
8. Fallon - The Psychopath Inside (here)
9. Ressler - Whoever Fights Monsters (here)
10. Waite - The Psychopathic God (here)

Other related books:
11. Carr - What is History? (here)
12. Cohn - Cosmos, Chaos & The World to Come (here)
13. Kahn - The Education of Julius Cesar (here)
14. Carcopino - Cicero: The Secrets of His Correspondence (here)
15. Enberg-Pederson - Paul and the Stoics (here)
Click to expand...
 
Gandalf said:
And a summary of the latest ones as nicklebeu wrote in that post:
Click to expand...

Since nickebleu made this very concise and readable list maybe something like a small spoiler button could be included as our latest reading list for Newbies by the administrator reply in that thread along with the regular reading list?

Core reading:

1. Collingwood - Idea of History (here)
2. Collingwood - Speculum Mentis (here)
3. Raine - Anatomy of Violence (here)
4. Samenow - Inside the Criminal Mind (here)
5. Samenow - The Myth of the Out of Character Crime (here)


Extended List:
6. Glenn & Raine - Psychopathy (here)
7. Tamdgidi - Gurdjieff and Hypnosis (here)
8. Fallon - The Psychopath Inside (here)
9. Ressler - Whoever Fights Monsters (here)
10. Waite - The Psychopathic God (here)

Other related books:
11. Carr - What is History? (here)
12. Cohn - Cosmos, Chaos & The World to Come (here)
13. Kahn - The Education of Julius Cesar (here)
14. Carcopino - Cicero: The Secrets of His Correspondence (here)
15. Enberg-Pederson - Paul and the Stoics (here)
 
I didn't put the links in the previous list but it works in preview mode.

Core reading:

1. Collingwood - Idea of History (here)
2. Collingwood - Speculum Mentis (here)
3. Raine - Anatomy of Violence (here)
4. Samenow - Inside the Criminal Mind (here)
5. Samenow - The Myth of the Out of Character Crime (here)


Extended List:
6. Glenn & Raine - Psychopathy (here)
7. Tamdgidi - Gurdjieff and Hypnosis (here)
8. Fallon - The Psychopath Inside (here)
9. Ressler - Whoever Fights Monsters (here)
10. Waite - The Psychopathic God (here)

Other related books:
11. Carr - What is History? (here)
12. Cohn - Cosmos, Chaos & The World to Come (here)
13. Kahn - The Education of Julius Cesar (here)
14. Carcopino - Cicero: The Secrets of His Correspondence (here)
15. Enberg-Pederson - Paul and the Stoics (here)
 
I think that those dealing with psych issues could read the psychology books first, like Raine and Samenow. Then, as time permits, move to the others. Heck, people might want to write each title on a little piece of paper, wad it up, hold it in the hand, and muscle test for which ones to read first!
 
nature said:
On the other hand, I noticed I hear some clics when I undergo sessions at his office, whereas I don't hear them when I do sessions at home.
Click to expand...

If you don’t hear any clicks when doing the session at home, the mostl likely explanation is that one of the reference electrodes (blue/ black) doesn’t have good contact. The clicks should move with the volume, I don’t think you can “drown them out”.

I had this problem when I started with the unit - frankly, the Zengar electrodes are a bit crappy, so I have used my own. I have also modified the way I attach the electrodes, and it seems to work better.

While the impedance meter at the bottom of the screen (the two grey bars dancing up and down in synch with your brain waves, which should only move a few milimeters) is helpful, it is not a very good measure of correct electrode placement - I had one of the reference (blue) electrodes dangling from my ear, and the impedance meter still was OK.

I have been doing daily sessions (except one) for about two weeks - again, not much to report, even though the divergence index is lower than at the start. I asked the Zengar rep about it - he said that changes can be subtle (I found that quite funny!).

I have the unit for a month, but maybe a month might not be enough time to get that old brain sorted. We’ll see!
 
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