NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

[nicklebleu]

This is what I posted on the other NO thread - FYI:

“I have been using a professional NeurOptimal unit for the last 10 days. I have been doing one session every day, except one. Here are my experiences:

After the first few sessions that went well, I had some technical problems with the electrodes. It seemed to me that some of the electrodes were not working properly, so after fiddling around with these for some time I used my own (from another NF system with the same connection), and then all went well again.

There is an index in the “Analysis” section that maps your progress - it’s called “Decoherence” [Correction: It’s called “Divergence”]. The lower the number, the better your brain is working. I started with around 1000, and the number has steadily dropped to now around 100. So it appears that there is some “measurable” progress, even though for me this number is just that - I have no idea how it is generated.

Subjectively I have not felt much - well, that is not quite true, but I have to qualify this statement a bit. At the same time I started doing the NO-sessions I also took up exercise again, after a long hiatus. The problem for me with exercise has been for a long time, that I couldn’t find anything that suited my body type and my mind. I used to be a hardcore jogger (5 times/ week for 1 hour), but had to give that up because I always had my body aching all over. I tried a multitude of other things (gym work, body weight exercises, kettle bells etc.) but none of these agreed with me, either physically or mentally.

Until I found out about rowing. Now I have a Concept2 rower and I just love that. It’s low-impact, good for my sore back (as long as I focus on proper stroke technique), and there are a variety of things to can tweak to make every exercise challenging and fun.

Only after 10 days my bodey feels so much better. My back pain is virtually gone (however I take great pains to do some pliability exercises before and after rowing). And of course my mind feels in a better space.

Now with this longwinded explanation I wanted to indicate, that I “naturally” attributed the fact that I feel so much better to excercise, and not to the NO-session, but I could be wrong. It actually could be a mixture of both. I am not so sure about this, but due to the timing of both I am unable to say which one is which. Looking back it was not very smart to change to “significant” things in life at the same time, but this didn’t occur in my mind at the time.

FAIW”

 

[Artemis]

From the book 'A Symphony in the Brain', Jim Robbins tells of an 8 y/o boy who was born prematurely and suffered brain damage as a result. He also suffered seizures later after his birth, and had difficulty speaking properly. He was then diagnosed with cerebral palsy. His sleep was troubled, and would often wake up 10 or 11 times a night, suffered from bruxism, could not zip a zipper, tie his shoes, had ADD and hyperactivity. By age five he was already taking hard antiseizure meds.

Once Jake began NO, by the second session, his bruxism subsided. His sleep problems cleared up almost immediately, and overall, Jake became more settled and more centered. For the first time, he was able to carry on a two-way conversation. His fine motor skills improved and was able to button his shirts and zip up his pants.

Eventually, Jake's parents bought a neurofeedback unit and used it on him regularly. His gains were phenomenal. He was going into second grade, and after a year of steady NO training, was already able to read at a fourth grade level. One of Jake's teachers called his rate of improvement "explosive".

The writer then goes on to say that NO can help treat many things such as: cocaine addiction, alcohol, vegetative states, head injuries, fetal alcohol syndrome, discomfort from menopause, PMS, chronic pain, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, stroke, PTSD, wild hyperactivity, Tourette's, depression, cerebral palsy, and as we can easily assume - much, much more.

Now, this was a child, so results may have come about much faster since his mind was still quite malleable and he was not yet so set in his ways. For the rest of us older folk, it could take longer for some of us to notice much difference.

 

[Laura]

Amazing story, Artemis. I have the book, I think, and will get to it eventually! The stack keeps getting bigger instead of smaller!

Meanwhile, the day after my 19th session, i.e. yesterday, in the night, as I was trying to go to sleep, I started having a panic attack. I had a really bad day yesterday with leg pain. I think it's because I'm using the back stretcher machine thing and that prolapsed disc at the bottom of my spine is moving around and agitating nerves like crazy. It's one thing one day and another the next. Anyway, yesterday was a lot of pain and poor circulation. My left leg was almost blue. (Lower part).

Anyway, during the night, while trying to go to sleep, I had this anxiety attack. It was medium bad and lasted about 30 minutes. I got up and Ark got up with me. I checked my pulse and blood sugar and everything was okay so I knew I wasn't having a heart attack or something. Anyway, took benadryl and everything calmed right down so now I'm wondering if it was an allergic reaction to something or if it was brain detox?

Anyway, today felt really good except for knee. Did my 20th session today.

 

[annp]

That's terrific that you were able to notice and head off a pattern like that Aleana. Did your daughter notice a difference in your interactions as you stayed present? It must have changed the tenor of the conversation.

No – I don’t think she did – but she definitely would have if I had zoned out. She’s very quick to notice and gets understandably frustrated. So being able to stay more present should improve our communication and relationship overall! Am curious to see what changes she notices next time we see each other.

That's great! I think that just taking that "edge" off of certain emotions makes a world of a difference in how we deal with things, and how we can cope, not to mention then having more "room" to correct the thinking errors associated with those paralyzing emotions. There is still a lot of work to do, but this is a huge help, IMO.

I think so too – in spite of the hyperactivity, I have had quiet moments where I am more aware of habitual thought patterns that I would have just missed before. More Work to do but at least I have more knowledge about what needs to be addressed. Am also noticing just how much tension I normally carry in my body and have found myself adjusting my posture and relaxing my clenched knees, jaws and rounded shoulders.

Had another session yesterday – my 8th. Took hours to fall asleep last night – my brain was quite active so I decided to just keep reading for awhile because sleep just wasn’t gonna happen. Good news is that I am finding that I am understanding and retaining more of what I read!!

What I suspect is that whatever is going on in my brain, whatever it is it wants to do, happens in the night. Either my brain is slow at working out what it needs to, or there’s just a lot there in subconscious, or it is overstimulating me and the effects last a long time. I dunno. But it leaves me tired the next day. So my guess is that by the time I do the next session 2-3 days later, it may be that whatever is happening isn’t finished what it needs to do and it’s too much. My gut feeling is that I need to space them out more to something like once a week. Although it seems like for the majority it is better to do them more frequently, I’m not sure in my case I should be doing that. So I think I’m gonna give it a week and see what happens.

I agree - which is why many of us may be having trouble sleeping and /or having vivid dreams. I often wake up tired too - like my brain ran a marathon during the night. Was considering doing more sessions per week, but I think one may be all some of us can handle right now so as not to 'overload the circuits'.

 

[Gaby]

I finished my 20th NeurOptimal session last Thursday and delivered the equipment back. I wish I would have kept it a few more days or sessions. It is not that I finished with a contraction phase, I felt calmed, but I felt too wired, sleeping less that night after the last session. Usually that was an indication of "unfinished work". The day afterwards, I started a non-stop working schedule of two days and nights. That brought a very bad contraction phase. My body was in flight or fight mode and I ended up throwing up at home after a FIR sauna. Next time I won't do anything drastic or submit my body to extreme temperatures after working shifts. After falling asleep exhausted, I recovered promptly. In the past, it would take me days (even weeks) to recover from high season night shifts. The hotels in the region had 100% tourist occupation over the weekend. Nobody in the local town saw so many tourists during this season. I guess that is another sign of the time.

Yesterday, I had my 9th QEEG session and finally I was able to raise my alpha waves with my eyes closed. I usually place my hand in my chest and belly like it is shown in the book "In an Unspoken Voice" by Peter Levine (page 128, Jin Shin Jyutsu energy flows) while I train with my eyes closed. The difference between NeurOptimal and QEEG is that in the later, you have to ground in order to get feedback. It is not something that comes naturally so to speak. The feedback that I got from the therapist made me realize that I started to make progress after some 15 NeurOptimal sessions or so. I'm more balanced and less in extreme states. So that was good! Specially closing my eyes and feeling my body as a source of comfort as opposed to a source of panic and distress.

 

[Windmill knight]

Eventually, Jake's parents bought a neurofeedback unit and used it on him regularly. His gains were phenomenal. He was going into second grade, and after a year of steady NO training, was already able to read at a fourth grade level. One of Jake's teachers called his rate of improvement "explosive".

Truly amazing - nothing short of miraculous! That is very encouraging!

I thought I'd mention that since starting the NO, I've noticed more instances of possible telepathy - as in someone saying (or writing online) something I was just about to say, or viceversa, using practically the exact words. Of course, many of those can be coincidences and others just similar thinking patterns due to affinity with the people around me.

 

[France]

France: 19 treatments. As soon as she can, she will share her impressions and feelings with the group.

23 treatments quite intensely because we rented the neuroptimal for a month. We are a group of 12 people who have been experimenting since March 13, 2018.

Observation :
I'm more focused. Some family patterns give in (2 of my daughters and one grandson also do neuroptimal during the month), the inner urgency to respond to the needs of others is almost gone, vigilance in my words is more present and especially the fear of being judged knowing that I am different from others to decrease much.

Other ramifications are slowly forming like the assurance of being in the right place at the right time instead of thinking about everything, giving back to others their own responsibilities instead of taking them on my shoulders by nourishing them with knowledge to protect them, the role of mother emerges with confidence and acceptance of having done what is best for my family.

Instead of justifying myself to make myself understood, I no longer allow myself to be loved. Rather, I say what needs to be said to enlighten the situation without consciously animating the fear of losing or the pleasure of gaining recognition from the other.
There was a series of very relevant dreams. I've been writing my dreams for over 10 years. That's very revealing to me. There was the pattern of the savior who was very present through dreams of my childhood as well as the urgency to wake people asleep so that they leave in peace.

I am very happy to have given myself this time. This commitment with my spouse Gandalf to open our home to people who are also committed to better physical and emotional health, has allowed us to live beautiful shares!

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

 

[Andrian]

From the book 'A Symphony in the Brain', Jim Robbins tells of an 8 y/o boy who was born prematurely and suffered brain damage as a result. He also suffered seizures later after his birth, and had difficulty speaking properly. He was then diagnosed with cerebral palsy. His sleep was troubled, and would often wake up 10 or 11 times a night, suffered from bruxism, could not zip a zipper, tie his shoes, had ADD and hyperactivity. By age five he was already taking hard antiseizure meds.

Once Jake began NO, by the second session, his bruxism subsided. His sleep problems cleared up almost immediately, and overall, Jake became more settled and more centered. For the first time, he was able to carry on a two-way conversation. His fine motor skills improved and was able to button his shirts and zip up his pants.

Eventually, Jake's parents bought a neurofeedback unit and used it on him regularly. His gains were phenomenal. He was going into second grade, and after a year of steady NO training, was already able to read at a fourth grade level. One of Jake's teachers called his rate of improvement "explosive".

The writer then goes on to say that NO can help treat many things such as: cocaine addiction, alcohol, vegetative states, head injuries, fetal alcohol syndrome, discomfort from menopause, PMS, chronic pain, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, stroke, PTSD, wild hyperactivity, Tourette's, depression, cerebral palsy, and as we can easily assume - much, much more.

Now, this was a child, so results may have come about much faster since his mind was still quite malleable and he was not yet so set in his ways. For the rest of us older folk, it could take longer for some of us to notice much difference.

Thank you Artemis for mentioning about the book 'A Simphony in the Brain', just bought it, i'm planning to read it as soon as possible since i want to know more about the NO. Btw i've found a specialized doctor in NO in the city where i live, i will call her and ask about NO sessions and so on, i hope she has the time for the sessions, it will be Excellent for me since i feel that i need recalibrate my brain .

 

[Andrian]

I just spoke with a local doctor specialized in neuofeedback therapy, she told me that they do only individual sessions, no possibility to rent the device, so we fixed an appointment for the next friday, will see how it goes. I wanted to ask you guys though, do you think that 2 sessions a week should be fine or should i do more?

 

[Altair]

I just spoke with a local doctor specialized in neuofeedback therapy, she told me that they do only individual sessions, no possibility to rent the device, so we fixed an appointment for the next friday, will see how it goes. I wanted to ask you guys though, do you think that 2 sessions a week should be fine or should i do more?

Though Zengar Institute itself says that it's fine to do up to 2 sessions DAILY, I would stick with 2-3 sessions weekly.

 

[Keyhole]

I am about 80 pages through Healing Developmental Trauma, and I just wanted to say that suddenly I now feel like I can appreciate the topic of this thread and see the significance of neurofeedback. Before HDT, this neuroptimal thing was slightly interesting to me, but I can't say that I have dedicated much time into learning about it yet. I could not fully see the significance, and so have not had the inclination to delve into it.


However, in learning more about the various survival adaptations, and how those can be PRE-verbal, it really suggests that it would take a LOT of work to bring those issues to light without external help (the use of neurofeedback and/or intensive one-on-one work with an experience therapist). It really seems futile to me to attempt this work individually without the use of those tools. So, thanks for all of the information in this thread.

 

[Laura]

However, in learning more about the various survival adaptations, and how those can be PRE-verbal, it really suggests that it would take a LOT of work to bring those issues to light without external help (the use of neurofeedback and/or intensive one-on-one work with an experience therapist). It really seems futile to me to attempt this work individually without the use of those tools. So, thanks for all of the information in this thread.

Exactly why I have been urging members to read certain books. I'd have to re-write the darn things to convey all the information in a post so it's just easier to hit a couple of points and get others to read for the full impact.

And I agree that it is super important information, like something we have been looking for or waiting for, for years. We've done so much, gone so far, but there is still something we can't quite get at. NO seems to be the ticket: helping the brain to know what it is doing that is "out of line" and to fix itself without necessarily having to bring stuff up and re-traumatize the self.

 

[Andrian]

Though Zengar Institute itself says that it's fine to do up to 2 sessions DAILY, I would stick with 2-3 sessions weekly.

Thank you Altair, yes, i think i will do 2 - 3 sessions a week starting mid of May, meanwhile will try to read the HDT and other recommended books.

 

[Jacques]

Thank you Altair, yes, i think i will do 2 - 3 sessions a week starting mid of May, meanwhile will try to read the HDT and other recommended books.

After doing the first five sessions with a week or longer in between and the gradual loss of the benefit, I decided that I would do them every other day (and this was now possible). My thinking is that I have lived with the burden of anxiety for so long, it had made deep tracks in my brain and that only way to fix that would be to stop letting those tracks be operational at all and to create new, non-anxious tracks. Hopefully then the new tracks will become habitual and the old tracks will completely dissolve.

I think that it may be very helpful - if not important - to do the sessions much closer together. If your brain automatically runs on stress tracks, doing sessions so far apart doesn't really allow for real re-training and re-tracking.

Perso, I am still doing one session per day (24 in a row now—we have rented the machine for one month) and I must admit that the results are very good.

Also we have other people who are doing many sessions per week and they are very satisfied with the results. Those who do it twice a week have results but it takes more time.

 

[Beau]

Observation :
I'm more focused. Some family patterns give in (2 of my daughters and one grandson also do neuroptimal during the month), the inner urgency to respond to the needs of others is almost gone, vigilance in my words is more present and especially the fear of being judged knowing that I am different from others to decrease much.

Other ramifications are slowly forming like the assurance of being in the right place at the right time instead of thinking about everything, giving back to others their own responsibilities instead of taking them on my shoulders by nourishing them with knowledge to protect them, the role of mother emerges with confidence and acceptance of having done what is best for my family.

Those are incredibly encouraging changes France! So many of us need work on becoming more confident, assertive and assured in our thinking and becoming less susceptible to sublte manipulations. It's really great to hear that NO has helped you alter your thinking patterns with regards to your family.