NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

[PERLOU]

Merci Chu et ALANA pour vos liens j'avais déjà vu l'annuaire mais pas l'autre avec ses vidéos...
Merci aussi à tous pour le partage de vos expériences


Thank you Chu and ALANA for your links I had already seen the directory but not the other one with its videos...
Thanks also to everyone for sharing your experiences

 

[Beau]

After 3 sessions the main thing I notice is my sleep being disturbed, which manifests mainly in waking up much earlier than normal. I had a baseline test done and a test done after and the results were that nothing in my brain changed during the 33 minutes, so maybe any brain changing that might be occurring is happening later and that could be why my sleep is affected. I'm wondering if there's anything specific I should be thinking of during the session? I haven't focused on anything in particular so far.

 

[Laura]

After 3 sessions the main thing I notice is my sleep being disturbed, which manifests mainly in waking up much earlier than normal. I had a baseline test done and a test done after and the results were that nothing in my brain changed during the 33 minutes, so maybe any brain changing that might be occurring is happening later and that could be why my sleep is affected. I'm wondering if there's anything specific I should be thinking of during the session? I haven't focused on anything in particular so far.

I don't guess so. Did the baseline test show anything "off"?

Like I said, my old dose of melatonin became ineffective and I had to double it.

Wonder what it is that energizes some people's brains and puts others to sleep?

 

[Nancy2feathers]

I had my 4th session yesterday. I stayed awake for about i/2 the session going in and out of a sleep state. Felt very relaxed. Something that happened while falling asleep last night, I felt a click in my brain (felt like my brain, could have been something else) it was like my brain clicked off for a second then on again. It took about 30 min to fall asleep. I had a deep sleep the entire night.

During the day since doing NF, lots of random memories have been popping up like snapshots. Funny thing, along with the snapshot sometimes there is also a smell I remember.

 

[Altair]

Found a podcast explaining NeurOptimal: _https://blog.bulletproof.com/54-neurofeedback-technology-best-biohack-yet-with-dr-valdeane-brown-podcast/

What We Cover

2:25 – Dr. Val Brown’s wide experience & the creation of NeurOptimal
5:30 – The high cost and complexity of normal EEG technology
7:10 – The problem with typical EEG technology
9:00 – What is neurofeedback and why it is Dave’s most effective biohack
10:15 – The central nervous system, neurofeedback, and connectivity
11:00 – Dave’s problem with typical EEG technology
12:00 – Dr. Val’s vision for neurofeedback and NeurOptimal
14:55 – How the brain optimizes itself vs. controlling what your brain does
16:10 – Hangovers and drunkenness vs. NeurOptimal feedback
17:15 – Why negative feedback is more powerful than positive feedback
18:10 – Real life examples of negative feedback
22:00 – Dave’s initial response to NeurOptimal
22:45 – The strange abilities of musicians and cameramen
24:40 – “Therapy in the rearview mirror”
26:50 – What aspects of life are NeurOptimal most impactful?
28:10 – The answer to the teenage circadian rhythm
30:40 – How NeurOptimal has helped people with abusive relationships
31:30 – Val’s golf game and rapid improvement
32:50 – Biohacking technology and sports
35:20 – Special Ops psychophysiological abilities
37:40 – The power of mastering awareness/focus at a young age
39:50 – NeurOptimal and family
42:50 – How the brain is blind to itself
44:10 – Case study: NeurOptimal and migraines
46:00 – The NeurOptimal approach to diagnosing health problems
47:50 – How NeurOptimal takes your “game” to a whole new level
48:45 – How many sessions does it take to improve performance?
51:55 – What are the possible risks of NeurOptimal?
55:10 – Case study: Problem with EEG
57:00 – Top 3 recommendations to kick more ass in life

 

[Approaching Infinity]

After 3 sessions the main thing I notice is my sleep being disturbed, which manifests mainly in waking up much earlier than normal. I had a baseline test done and a test done after and the results were that nothing in my brain changed during the 33 minutes, so maybe any brain changing that might be occurring is happening later and that could be why my sleep is affected. I'm wondering if there's anything specific I should be thinking of during the session? I haven't focused on anything in particular so far.

I don't guess so. Did the baseline test show anything "off"?

Like I said, my old dose of melatonin became ineffective and I had to double it.

Wonder what it is that energizes some people's brains and puts others to sleep?

That baseline tests here were one of the examples where the divergence number got higher instead of lower. All that the instructions say is that this means the brain hasn't yet adapted to being able to integrate the training within the session - the brain/nervous system started out more "stable" than it ended up after the session. They suggest this means that the brain will continue trying to integrate the training in the hours and days after the session. But, with more training, the brain will get better at integrating the information during the session itself. Hard to know what it might mean aside from that, without a more in-depth understanding of the software.

 

[Laura]

That baseline tests here were one of the examples where the divergence number got higher instead of lower. All that the instructions say is that this means the brain hasn't yet adapted to being able to integrate the training within the session - the brain/nervous system started out more "stable" than it ended up after the session. They suggest this means that the brain will continue trying to integrate the training in the hours and days after the session. But, with more training, the brain will get better at integrating the information during the session itself. Hard to know what it might mean aside from that, without a more in-depth understanding of the software.

That sounds like resistance or deeper trauma (as in earlier). Maybe that's what happens to peeps who can't sleep well after? (Like me.) Maybe they just have developed more efficient coping mechanisms that include walling stuff off or the old "stiff upper lip" business?

So, I'm definitely looking forward to getting some more sessions under my hat.

 

[Beau]

That sounds like resistance or deeper trauma (as in earlier). Maybe that's what happens to peeps who can't sleep well after? (Like me.) Maybe they just have developed more efficient coping mechanisms that include walling stuff off or the old "stiff upper lip" business?

So, I'm definitely looking forward to getting some more sessions under my hat.

Yes, I'm thinking resistance or trauma. I've always been pretty resistant to external controls, not allowing anyone to hypnotize me, etc. (Those aren't conscious actions by me) Hopefully after more sessions that resistance the NO can be broken down and be seen as not a threat.

 

[nature]

I had my 1st NO session:
The practitionner showed me the graphs and said there are vey low (bad), so I'll need at least 2 or 3 sessions a week.
Nothing noticed by day, the night i had difficulties to sleep and hot feet (usually my hands and feet are very cold even at home). it's the only change I noticed and it was the 2 first days.

Laura, what is the "stiff upper lip" business? Since I try to be mindfullness, i notice how tense are my muscles not only around my lips but also all my face and my shoulders and arms.

 

[Chad]

I had my 1st NO session:
The practitionner showed me the graphs and said there are vey low (bad), so I'll need at least 2 or 3 sessions a week.
Nothing noticed by day, the night i had difficulties to sleep and hot feet (usually my hands and feet are very cold even at home). it's the only change I noticed and it was the 2 first days.

Laura, what is the "stiff upper lip" business? Since I try to be mindfullness, i notice how tense are my muscles not only around my lips but also all my face and my shoulders and arms.

The phrase is most commonly heard as part of the idiom "keep a stiff upper lip", and has traditionally been used to describe an attribute of British people in remaining resolute and unemotional in the face of adversity.[1] A sign of weakness is trembling of the upper lip, hence the saying keep a stiff upper lip. When a person's upper lip begins to tremble, it is one of the first signs that the person is scared or shaken by experiencing deep emotion.[3]

I guess when faced with a problem, not allowing oneself to be overtaken by emotions in order to face the challenge is a good thing. But then following the event, i imagine it is actually counter productive to block oneself from feeling the emotion - meaning that when it's 'safe', it is good to 'let it out'. Whereas i think the British idea has been to resist feeling or expressing anything at all, even once the event has passed. Well, i'm British and that's the impression i have.

And considering the Development and Trauma book and what it says about where tension is kept because of trauma, how there are diaphragms around the neck, knees, feet, and so on, maybe there is something to the face and the lip area holding similar tension.

 

[Sol Logos]

This sounds like a really interesting thread I certainly need to catch up on. Late last year I was experimenting with an EEG headset but inside a VR and sound environment. The concept was kind of similar to what I've gathered here at a glance. It was to use the VR environment as a brain training tool, as the initial idea anyway. Something about it here: _https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/extrasensory-technology-living-services-new-design-paradigm-wall

What I came to, at least conceptually, is that people could dynamically learn to train their brains, with a really high definition of feedback available - so all the subtle nuances changing in the brainwaves, mapped in detail to the various dimensions offered in VR - audio, visual, spacial and VR physics (i.e weight, acceleration, gravity etc.) could increase feedback and brain learning.

The hypothesis is basically that if we have the possibility of very detailed and high definition of control via brainwaves changes, and we have direct feedback to experience it, then our brains will adapt and rapidly learn. The "rewards" become basically gaining creative agency in the environment. The VR space has the advantage of it being very immersive, so in theory that kind of learning would be more engaging and so rapid.

I came across this article that talks about different technologies but describes the kind of passive and active learning that enhances each other: http://www.pnas.org/content/110/26/10818

 

[Jacques]

That sounds like resistance or deeper trauma (as in earlier). Maybe that's what happens to peeps who can't sleep well after? (Like me.) Maybe they just have developed more efficient coping mechanisms that include walling stuff off or the old "stiff upper lip" business?

So, I'm definitely looking forward to getting some more sessions under my hat.

Yes, I'm thinking resistance or trauma. I've always been pretty resistant to external controls, not allowing anyone to hypnotize me, etc. (Those aren't conscious actions by me) Hopefully after more sessions that resistance the NO can be broken down and be seen as not a threat.

Well, same thing for me. So far, I haven't sleep better after any session and the lady told me that usually people begins to sleep better after that.

On my third session, the divergence went from something around 900 to 450 but on my fourth, from something around 900 to 600.

So, I'm doing a pause for now up to the time that we will receive the machine that we have rented. And France and I, are planning to do at least 5 sessions a week during the time that we will have it.

 

[Gaby]

That sounds like resistance or deeper trauma (as in earlier). Maybe that's what happens to peeps who can't sleep well after? (Like me.) Maybe they just have developed more efficient coping mechanisms that include walling stuff off or the old "stiff upper lip" business?

So, I'm definitely looking forward to getting some more sessions under my hat.

Yes, I'm thinking resistance or trauma. I've always been pretty resistant to external controls, not allowing anyone to hypnotize me, etc. (Those aren't conscious actions by me) Hopefully after more sessions that resistance the NO can be broken down and be seen as not a threat.

Well, same thing for me. So far, I haven't sleep better after any session and the lady told me that usually people begins to sleep better after that.

Same for me. I had trouble sleeping during the first weeks. But while reading "Healing Developmental Trauma", I actually slept more than my usual. It is as if it required a lot of energy to assimilate the concepts in the book. Haven't done any sessions in a couple of weeks, but will see how it goes.

 

[nature]

The phrase is most commonly heard as part of the idiom "keep a stiff upper lip", and has traditionally been used to describe an attribute of British people in remaining resolute and unemotional in the face of adversity.[1] A sign of weakness is trembling of the upper lip, hence the saying keep a stiff upper lip. When a person's upper lip begins to tremble, it is one of the first signs that the person is scared or shaken by experiencing deep emotion.[3]

I guess when faced with a problem, not allowing oneself to be overtaken by emotions in order to face the challenge is a good thing. But then following the event, i imagine it is actually counter productive to block oneself from feeling the emotion - meaning that when it's 'safe', it is good to 'let it out'. Whereas i think the British idea has been to resist feeling or expressing anything at all, even once the event has passed. Well, i'm British and that's the impression i have.

And considering the Development and Trauma book and what it says about where tension is kept because of trauma, how there are diaphragms around the neck, knees, feet, and so on, maybe there is something to the face and the lip area holding similar tension.

Thank you, itellsya! looking forward to reading HDT

 

[Altair]

Found a podcast explaining NeurOptimal: _https://blog.bulletproof.com/54-neurofeedback-technology-best-biohack-yet-with-dr-valdeane-brown-podcast/

By the way, it's an interview with Dr. Valdeane Brown founder of NeurOptimal who programmed the software. He explains how it works, differences between NeurOptimal and other Neurofeedback approaches.