NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

[Timótheos]

So far, I have done 3 sessions. My next one is scheduled for Friday.

First session: According to the machine, my left brain is more active than my right brain and is working almost all the time. At the end of the session, there was a good amelioration. It seems that I respond pretty well to this kind of treatment.

My 3rd treatment last week was with a different practitioner. She lives a little father away than the first one, but her office seemed more relaxed, clean and professional. And rather than have us sit on a chair, there was a cot upon which to lie and either listen to music or watch a film.

She showed us the results of our brainwaves afterwards, and like Gandalf, there was significantly more activity in my left hemisphere than my right. Today we had another session and this time both sides of my brain were much more balanced. So, it does appear to be working.

She recommends at least 20-30 sessions for me in total.

 

[Zar]

I just finished my 3rd session and in this session (and the second as well) I've felt an initial ache/heartburny depressive feeling in my chest area, followed by calm and joy the following days. I've also awaken an intense curiosity, and a higher sensibility to things like wifi. It may also appear that I'm becoming more psychic than I didn't know I was(I think) as I've seen metaphoric visions of my past trauma in therapy today (I've had similar visions of others during reiki share). And also had a visceral experience when I first reconnected with my emotions a few weeks ago, I was able to "conversed" with my "past" and "future" selves and saw a web of connectivity with many things. Not sure what to make of all this though.

 

[Chu]

That baseline tests here were one of the examples where the divergence number got higher instead of lower. All that the instructions say is that this means the brain hasn't yet adapted to being able to integrate the training within the session - the brain/nervous system started out more "stable" than it ended up after the session. They suggest this means that the brain will continue trying to integrate the training in the hours and days after the session. But, with more training, the brain will get better at integrating the information during the session itself. Hard to know what it might mean aside from that, without a more in-depth understanding of the software.

FWIW, from the little data I've been able to gather, the baseline changes seem to also have to do with general tiredness. Too people were very fatigued, and the initial measurement was lower than the final one, and the therapist said that it could mean that something got activated in a good sense. Less brain fatigue, if you want. In other cases, the baseline went down, and that can also mean that it works in regulating "hyper" activity. So, my guess is that because everybody is different, some people may need to up their average, while others need to bring it down.

 

[Laura]

After my third session, I feel rather depressed instead of "evening out". I'm also very tired. I suspect that it may have something to do with old emotions coming to the surface.

 

[Hesper]

After my third session, I feel rather depressed instead of "evening out". I'm also very tired. I suspect that it may have something to do with old emotions coming to the surface.

I felt the same way after a few sessions - surprising how tired it can make you.

 

[Alana]

After my third session, I feel rather depressed instead of "evening out". I'm also very tired. I suspect that it may have something to do with old emotions coming to the surface.

I felt the same way after a few sessions - surprising how tired it can make you.

I haven't felt depressed yet, but the feeling of tiredness was very prominent for me especially after the first session. I dragged myself around the rest of the day just to do what I had to, and then went to bed early and slept for about 10 hrs. By now I have had 4 sessions, and always feel a bit tired after each, but nowhere as tired as the first one.

I see some improvement in sleep after each session too, but doesn't last longer than a couple of days, so it might be related to this feeling of tiredness. Yesterday for example I had another session, I felt tired and hungry afterwards (regular after-NF side-effects for me), and fell asleep immediately after turning off my audiobook at night. (anybody else feels hungry afterwards??)

Another thing I just recalled, and it might be related to NF: My relationship with my dog has improved since I started the sessions. He is 9 months old, so he has been a bit more defiant and generally abnoxious these last few months, but recently, he follows my orders and doesn't try to dominate as much as before. I mused that, because dogs are more likely to follow a stable leader than an unstable one, he is able to feel my more balanced brain activity... maybe. Or it's just the training paying off, or a combination.

The biggest positive change we noticed from NF though, is that my husband's sleep-apnea has dissapeared. So far, 4 weeks into the sessions, not a single time. So that's incredible.

 

[Gaby]

Found a podcast explaining NeurOptimal: _https://blog.bulletproof.com/54-neurofeedback-technology-best-biohack-yet-with-dr-valdeane-brown-podcast/

I listened to this podcast today. It was pretty good!

For me, the main learning key points (I already read about NeurOptimal and NF in general) was that the main advantage of NeurOptimal is that it gives negative feedback and the brain sometimes understands better that language. Brain moves automatically to avoid discomfort.

Other NF modalities give positive feedback and sometimes, depending on how it is done, it can be too forceful. He gives the example of a shuttle landing in a space station. You don't aim for the space station because you risk destroying both ships. You aim close to it and descend gradually.

He also said that people should ideally do 20 sessions and then go on with their lives, or words to that effect. When you have NF, you learn to see things differently, trauma victims learn to set boundaries with their abusers and so forth. Once you apply your "new brain" in your life, the potential for NeurOptimal to have a further effect increases and it is then when you can do another 20 sessions if you think you need it. He says that it can be done for life that way.

I was going to rent the equipment for 2 months (40 sessions), but at this point, I'm only renting one month and then probably wait until Autumn/next Winter or so to have the other 20 sessions. Depending on how it goes.

 

[Gaby]

After my third session, I feel rather depressed instead of "evening out". I'm also very tired. I suspect that it may have something to do with old emotions coming to the surface.

I felt the same way after a few sessions - surprising how tired it can make you.

[...]

Another thing I just recalled, and it might be related to NF: My relationship with my dog has improved since I started the sessions. He is 9 months old, so he has been a bit more defiant and generally abnoxious these last few months, but recently, he follows my orders and doesn't try to dominate as much as before. I mused that, because dogs are more likely to follow a stable leader than an unstable one, he is able to feel my more balanced brain activity... maybe. Or it's just the training paying off, or a combination.

The biggest positive change we noticed from NF though, is that my husband's sleep-apnea has dissapeared. So far, 4 weeks into the sessions, not a single time. So that's incredible.

That is pretty remarkable, Alana!

My effects only lasts 2 days or so as well and then comes the boomerang effect. Nevertheless, I feel slightly less dissociated, which means I can feel my emotions better. I'm having some anxiety episodes and when I do grounding exercises, I start to notice anger.

I was able to work my 6th session today much easier. In the end, I felt like someone turned on a bulb in my brain. Everything was so sharp, clear and detailed. Today I worked CZ (central region) and P3 (posterior left hemisphere) targeting specific imbalances with a visual feedback. Brain waves on specific regions get re-checked before training starts.

I'll see if I can sort of replicate a case shared on this interview with NeurOptimal's founder. A Lyme's disease patient was able to correct all her QEEG imbalances just with NeurOptimal, even when she didn't train for those specific imbalances. I'm seeing of renting the NeurOptimal as soon as available.

 

[A Jay]

I had my third session on Friday and woke up Sunday morning with a headache and felt depressed for a good portion of the day.

Had my fourth session on Monday and my fifth on Tuesday. The headache is still coming and going, and at one point seemed to radiate from the area at the back of my head through to my right eye. Interestingly, a few days ago I rememebered that last year when I was working with my applied kinesiologist to get my health in order I had a hard bump come up on the back of my head, and it's from that same spot that most of my headaches have been originating.

Taking magnesium has definitely improved my sleep. It can still take a little while sometimes, but I'm not laying in bed awake for hours anymore.

 

[Laura]

I had my third session on Friday and woke up Sunday morning with a headache and felt depressed for a good portion of the day.

Had my fourth session on Monday and my fifth on Tuesday. The headache is still coming and going, and at one point seemed to radiate from the area at the back of my head through to my right eye. Interestingly, a few days ago I rememebered that last year when I was working with my applied kinesiologist to get my health in order I had a hard bump come up on the back of my head, and it's from that same spot that most of my headaches have been originating.

Taking magnesium has definitely improved my sleep. It can still take a little while sometimes, but I'm not laying in bed awake for hours anymore.

Well, from feedback and my own experience yesterday and today, the process is not all sweetness and light! I suspect that peeps that have deeply ingrained reactive systems may suffer a little while they are changing. And it may take a number of sessions for that to even start happening!

 

[Jones]

Another thing I just recalled, and it might be related to NF: My relationship with my dog has improved since I started the sessions. He is 9 months old, so he has been a bit more defiant and generally abnoxious these last few months, but recently, he follows my orders and doesn't try to dominate as much as before. I mused that, because dogs are more likely to follow a stable leader than an unstable one, he is able to feel my more balanced brain activity... maybe. Or it's just the training paying off, or a combination.

Yeah...dogs are a good indication of what's going on for you. This article refers to aggression, which is the extreme, but on the other extreme there is shut down with lots of subtleties in-between. _http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/dog-bite-nervous-personality-behaviour-study-1.4521208

I imagine it would be similar for kids too.

I'm waiting on a call back from the nearest NO practitioner to find out if his hire out machine is available yet.

 

[JGeropoulas]

Evidence-based psychiatry and neurology consider neurofeedback placebo.
For example, you cannot train your brain to emit more delta-waves,
you can do it through modifying your lifestyle (keto diet promotes delta-sleep, avoiding benzo's and sleeping pills as well),
but not through any kind of training.

Some -training- is pure physiology - just close your eyes and you get your ’’alpha training’’,
no need for expensive machines and diodes.

It's just a step in mechanization of psychiatry...but surveys say all
that new post-ECT-machinery (biofeedback, neurofeedback, transcranial magnet stimulation) is pure fraud.

Psychotherapy seems boring so medical equipment sellers are inventing new toys, but with less results than CBT or Gestallt or any other type of psychotherapy...

_http://neurosciencenews.com/eeg-neurofeedback-placebo-4379/

_https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5382955/

Well of course the establishment would dismiss anything that helps people without their expertise or pharmaceuticals. And I always find the placebo charge intriguing because it actually confirms the power of the mind.

I think there's legitimacy to criticism of the kind of placebo effect that causes someone with cancer to feel healed, despite the physical evidence showing the tumor is still growing and killing them. This is a concerning false placebo effect which is akin to wishful thinking.

But there's another version of placebo effect in which the person feels healed and the physical evidence shows actual, corresponding changes. Another variation is in cases where the person's subjective symptoms are the sole problem, such as depression. If someone feels less depressed due to the placebo effect, then they are less depressed. Can such a placebo effect be considered illegitimate and a bad thing? These legitimate placebo effects demonstrate the power of the mind.

 

[adam7117]

I have also started neurofeedback training and think that this is an exciting development and a positive step forward for me personally.

Still catching up on the thread but thought I'd post my initial findings after the first session.

I got a real workout during the first sitting which resulted in a significant headache. My brain also felt like electricity went through it and the feeling was like it was the brain itself that generated the current. This combined with a metallic taste in my mouth. An odd sensation - not disturbing - but it was a real workout. Things got better within 24-48 hours.

This may be a function of the amount of trauma the person had experienced.

These are normal reactions apparently and I discussed them with the therapist - but I decided to go easy and settle on weekly sessions for now. I do not have a car but would definitely not been able to drive afterwards which was rather surprising. I found walking afterwards to be very pleasant and it settled me down quite a bit. Mind you by the time I got home, I was exhausted and ready for bed (at 8pm!).

However, I am looking forward to the next sitting as there are some subtle changes in my behaviour already. For example, I felt very positive the next day and hence interacted with people in the office a lot more than usual. I felt happy, like some weight was taken off my shoulders.

I am curious about other experiences so will spend more time reading up on that here.

 

[Kawika]

I had my third session, there was a cool sensation on the left side of my head that lasted a few minutes. I felt very relaxed and had some interesting thoughts, the C's quote about being child like popped in and I was thinking how I've seemed to have lost that curiosity over the years and how I'd like that state to come back.

Over all it was a pleasant session I left feeling calm and clear. I've noticed also that a feeling of angst that I get in the pit of my stomach sometimes has disappeared since doing the NF. Looking forward to more treatments.

 

[Beau]

Had my fourth session yesterday. This time, the baseline tests showed that my brain did integrate some changes during the session. So that's improvement! Other than that, I slept well during the night. I did take 3mg of melatonin just in case, but didn't wake up once and slept a solid 8 hours. I was pretty wiped last night and just went right to sleep instead of reading before bed. A bit more calm and relaxed yesterday after the session too.