NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

Persej

The Living Force
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Fortunately, it seems that we are getting closer to more consumer friendly EEG devices. Like this one:

EEG headset for emotion detection

At the International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) taking place in Las Vegas, Nev. Jan. 9-12, 2018, imec and Holst Centre will demonstrate a prototype of an electroencephalogram (EEG) headset that can measure emotions and cognitive processes in the brain. The headset is a major breakthrough in emotion measurement for therapeutic, learning and gaming applications.

Traditionally, EEG brain scans are used to diagnose medical conditions such as epilepsy or sleep disorders. More recently, EEG brain scans have been introduced as a way to detect emotions which opens doors beyond the medical field. Researchers are looking into e-learning applications, and developers of virtual games are exploring the possibilities of emotion-based e-gaming. Such application domains require real-time emotion detection, which can be achieved through wireless EEG headsets.

Challenges in EEG electrode placement, and user comfort for long term usage are the key deterrents in using EEG signals beyond clinical purpose. Imec's EEG headset combines user comfort with its cutting-edge low-power technology, active high-quality EEG dry-electrodes from Datwyler and advanced software to accurately monitor in real time frontal EEG signals that are related to emotional state. The system contains a headphone jack and is Bluetooth (r) compatible for music streaming. With the integration of music playback, the system can not only measure, but also influence the emotions of the person that is wearing the headset. With the help of Artificial Intelligence our headset can learn the personal musical preferences of the wearer and compose and playback, in real-time, music that fits his preferences and influences his emotions to achieve the wearers' desired emotional state. The machine learning algorithms to achieve this were developed by Osaka University under the Center of Innovation (COI) Program integrating personalized emotion classification and real-time music composition into the system.

"Imec's extensive expertise in this domain is a result of nearly a decade of work in creating circuits and compact systems for wearable EEG monitoring," stated Chris Van Hoof, senior director connected health solutions. "Leveraging the expertise of our project partners: Osaka University and Datwyler, we could develop a new type of EEG headset that will be vital for clinical research on emotion estimation in therapeutic environments or for neurofeedback through aural stimulation for relaxation, cognitive enhancement and memory improvement purposes. Since the headset is pre-fitted with electrodes, this eliminates the need for expertise in electrode placement and can be used on a regular basis with minimal setup time. We're excited about how the headset can be leveraged in the gaming community to develop enhanced and more immersive games."

"Our expertise in machine learning and personalized emotion classification helped us to build a unique EEG system that links music that is offered through the headphones with emotional changes," stated professor Masayuki Numao from the Institute of Scientific and Industrial Research (ISIR), Osaka University. "We have achieved this Brain Melody system by combining model-based emotion recognition with techniques for real-time music composition and musical expression."

"We are excited to be part of imec's endeavour in creating the paradigm shift in wearable EEG monitoring," says Ronny Vrijens, Head of New Product Development at Datwyler Pharma Packaging International. "Together with imec, we have significantly improved the reliability, EEG signal quality, and ease of integration of the dry electrodes used in this new EEG headset."

https://phys.org/news/2018-01-eeg-headset-emotion.html

I suppose the same kind of thing could be done in achieving the desired attention state.
 

Beau

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Medulin said:
Evidence-based psychiatry and neurology consider neurofeedback placebo.

Well if it's placebo, wouldn't that mean that it works? I mean, if you're thinking/behavior changes, what's the difference if neurofeedback "works" or not as long as you get results?
 

Galaxia2002

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FOTCM Member
Beau said:
Medulin said:
Evidence-based psychiatry and neurology consider neurofeedback placebo.

Well if it's placebo, wouldn't that mean that it works? I mean, if you're thinking/behavior changes, what's the difference if neurofeedback "works" or not as long as you get results?

As I read in some book about acupuncture, placebo is in fact a way of healing, when the body uses his own inner resources for heal induced by some form of information. So it is completely valid as a way to heal, but discarted by pharmaceutic companies that are interested in that their products are those that produce the controlled answer.
 

nature

Dagobah Resident
Galaxia2002 said:
Beau said:
Medulin said:
Evidence-based psychiatry and neurology consider neurofeedback placebo.

Well if it's placebo, wouldn't that mean that it works? I mean, if you're thinking/behavior changes, what's the difference if neurofeedback "works" or not as long as you get results?

As I read in some book about acupuncture, placebo is in fact a way of healing, when the body uses his own inner resources for heal induced by some form of information. So it is completely valid as a way to heal, but discarted by pharmaceutic companies that are interested in that their products are those that produce the controlled answer.
Yes. That's why they want our mind being damaged (EMF, etc.), in order it won't be able to cure itself.
 

nature

Dagobah Resident
Thank you whitecoast for bringing this thread out and Gaby for your testimony. So, I read sott radio transcript with Nora Gedgaudas: very interesting! When I saw the videos from Nora's site http://www.northwest-neurofeedback.com/intro.html , something in me attracted me toward that.
I then looked on internet and there are NFB practitionner in France too! It's a chance!
I plan to take an appointment with one of them, and will let you know. The same for DBZ: they all use Neuroptimal here. I don't know if it's the best device; I'll see.
 

Laura

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nature said:
Thank you whitecoast for bringing this thread out and Gaby for your testimony. So, I read sott radio transcript with Nora Gedgaudas: very interesting! When I saw the videos from Nora's site http://www.northwest-neurofeedback.com/intro.html , something in me attracted me toward that.
I then looked on internet and there are NFB practitionner in France too! It's a chance!
I plan to take an appointment with one of them, and will let you know. The same for DBZ: they all use Neuroptimal here. I don't know if it's the best device; I'll see.

Keep us posted. I'm very interested in trying it myself. I just got a book about it and after reading only a part of it, it sounds like something that might be helpful for a lot of people in a lot of ways.
 

whitecoast

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nature said:
Thank you whitecoast for bringing this thread out and Gaby for your testimony. So, I read sott radio transcript with Nora Gedgaudas: very interesting! When I saw the videos from Nora's site http://www.northwest-neurofeedback.com/intro.html , something in me attracted me toward that.
I then looked on internet and there are NFB practitionner in France too! It's a chance!
I plan to take an appointment with one of them, and will let you know. The same for DBZ: they all use Neuroptimal here. I don't know if it's the best device; I'll see.

Yes, keep us posted! I plan on sharing my own experiences with neurofeedback after my first couple of sessions by February.

Laura said:
Keep us posted. I'm very interested in trying it myself. I just got a book about it and after reading only a part of it, it sounds like something that might be helpful for a lot of people in a lot of ways.

That's encouraging to hear. One thing I think should be considered is that the readings for brainwaves are evaluated according to a normative database of other brain maps, EEGs, etc. I think having the brainmap of an average, well-balanced person is an improvement for people who are struggling with neurological issues like ADD, self-regulation, bipolar, or other brain imbalances. I'm not sure how much that translates over into "optimization" training in general. Do they have a normative database of scientists, CEOs, high performance athletes etc we can train towards? A part of me wonders if it would be worth seeing what kind of brainwaves someone doing the work produces, and train against those baselines? Say in theory if the Chateau Elders developed a normative database of their own EEG readings, and other people could use neurofeedback training against those baselines. That is of course, if it turns out to be efficacious as a technique in general (and I am cautiously optimistic).
 

Gaby

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Persej said:
Thank you for sharing your experiences and research, Gaby. Neurofeedback sounds very interesting!

I found a transcript of an interview with Sebern F. Fisher, who wrote a book Neurofeedback in the Treatment of Developmental Trauma: Calming the Fear-Driven Brain: _www.shrinkrapradio.com/452.pdf

She talks about how she started using Neurofeedback in her clinical practice as psychotherapist and how she managed to solve many issues in her patients that she was not been able to solve before without it.

She explains it in her own way, that there is a fear embedded in human beings and than no work on prefrontal cortex can change human being without that fear being dissolved first. And that she can do that with this Neurofeedback protocol.

I listened to this podcast today. Thank you for sharing!

http://shrinkrapradio.com/452-sebernfisherneurofeedback/

Show transcript: www.shrinkrapradio.com/452.pdf

I could resonate with every single word shared, even after only two neurofeedback sessions.

To put an example, I've been scanning the ADHD literature which is mostly a North American school thing. Where I live, there is no such thing as adult ADHD or ADD. And thanks DCM for that because although the ADHD literature does provide insights and guidance, it is mostly a dead end. Or so it seems to me. They are even saying that the frontal lobes are smaller due to genetics. While this might be true in some cases, they don't realize that in some people there is hardly any electrical activity in the prefrontal cortex because the brain stem is "busted" from so much fear-based programming at a pre-verbal stage. Surely there are several factors involved and so many tools you can use. Nevertheless, from what I have seen so far, experiencing appropriate "attention" is the key and here is where neurofeedback is a handy tool that can facilitate that.

In some ADD brains, there is normal orbitofrontal activity, but low dorsolateral prefrontal activity and high brain stem activity. These are people who are very fearful, but they appear very introverted and inhibited, and they are very neurotic but "absent-minded". In these cases, emotional regulation is very overwhelming. It is an immature brain.

Gabor Mate describes in "Scattered" how ADHD is a developmental delay, or as Sebern F. Fisher puts it, developmental trauma (in extreme cases). Her examples are good caricatures of the work that can be done. She reminds the host that it is like literally building a new brain.

My 2 cents!
 

Laura

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Persej said:
Thank you for sharing your experiences and research, Gaby. Neurofeedback sounds very interesting!

I found a transcript of an interview with Sebern F. Fisher, who wrote a book Neurofeedback in the Treatment of Developmental Trauma: Calming the Fear-Driven Brain: _www.shrinkrapradio.com/452.pdf

She talks about how she started using Neurofeedback in her clinical practice as psychotherapist and how she managed to solve many issues in her patients that she was not been able to solve before without it.

She explains it in her own way, that there is a fear embedded in human beings and than no work on prefrontal cortex can change human being without that fear being dissolved first. And that she can do that with this Neurofeedback protocol.

That's the book I got. I sure is interesting right from the get-go!


Gaby said:
I listened to this podcast today. Thank you for sharing!

http://shrinkrapradio.com/452-sebernfisherneurofeedback/

Show transcript: www.shrinkrapradio.com/452.pdf

I could resonate with every single word shared, even after only two neurofeedback sessions.

To put an example, I've been scanning the ADHD literature which is mostly a North American school thing. Where I live, there is no such thing as adult ADHD or ADD. And thanks DCM for that because although the ADHD literature does provide insights and guidance, it is mostly a dead end. Or so it seems to me. They are even saying that the frontal lobes are smaller due to genetics. While this might be true in some cases, they don't realize that in some people there is hardly any electrical activity in the prefrontal cortex because the brain stem is "busted" from so much fear-based programming at a pre-verbal stage. Surely there are several factors involved and so many tools you can use. Nevertheless, from what I have seen so far, experiencing appropriate "attention" is the key and here is where neurofeedback is a handy tool that can facilitate that.

In some ADD brains, there is normal orbitofrontal activity, but low dorsolateral prefrontal activity and high brain stem activity. These are people who are very fearful, but they appear very introverted and inhibited, and they are very neurotic but "absent-minded". In these cases, emotional regulation is very overwhelming. It is an immature brain.

Gabor Mate describes in "Scattered" how ADHD is a developmental delay, or as Sebern F. Fisher puts it, developmental trauma (in extreme cases). Her examples are good caricatures of the work that can be done. She reminds the host that it is like literally building a new brain.

My 2 cents!

Well, I'm not sure that ADHD is even useful as a label. I doubt that anybody would label me that way, but I have operated my whole life with a background, low-level, constant fear that sometimes increases to debilitating levels. You could say that I'm a serious worrier. And I don't think that is ADHD. And, as far as I've read, it seems that fear is one of the main things that this Neurofeedback deals with/corrects. I could sure use some relief there!!!
 

Mikha'El

Jedi
I've been through the neurofeedback, brain training process and I can guarantee that it does work, if you are the type that needs it.

The wonderful thing about the process is that you only need to do it once, it took me about three weeks with two one hour sessions a week.

The therapist that I chose to take me through the process also believed in performing talk therapy before each session began in order to fine tune the equipment based on the results of what we would discuss.

So, basically, she fused traditional psychotherapy with neurofeedback. It was an amazing process and I will never go back to misusing my brain the ways that I did before.

Another interesting thing about her practice is that she provided me with some specific, popular music to listen to after each session during my drive home and now when I listen to those songs again, it takes me right back to the place I was after each session. Even if your therapist doesn't offer this, I would recommend creating a special playlist to listen to after the sessions. Specifically so that it is very easy to get right back to that perfect mental state.
 

Gaby

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Laura said:
Well, I'm not sure that ADHD is even useful as a label. I doubt that anybody would label me that way, but I have operated my whole life with a background, low-level, constant fear that sometimes increases to debilitating levels. You could say that I'm a serious worrier. And I don't think that is ADHD. And, as far as I've read, it seems that fear is one of the main things that this Neurofeedback deals with/corrects. I could sure use some relief there!!!

Often I'm not consciously aware there is fear although I know it is driving me. The more I try to stop it, the more intense it becomes.

I felt relaxed during my EEG, specially when I had my eyes closed. However, based on my brain waves, my neuropsychologist told me (in diplomatic words) that I was basically terrorized.

After the second NF session, I felt so completely calm, aware and awake that the following morning someone tried to scare me from behind as a joke. This would just startle me, but I didn't move a notch. I joked back saying that I was immunized after a lifetime of being terrorized.

I've been able to reproduce that state since then, specially while listening to people, driving or just any now and then. Lately, it doesn't feel as sharp as the first time. However, I should wait at least 10 more sessions to get an idea of how I could be helped. In the time being, I just to try to reproduce the adjusting maneuvers I did during my first two sessions and that seems to help. I noticed the adjusting just makes my daydreaming disappear without efforts (or at least what I always understood as efforts). It is hard to explain, but experiencing it surely makes it crystal clear. It is really hard to put into words work that is done in pre-verbal parts of your brain.
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
Laura said:
Well, I'm not sure that ADHD is even useful as a label. I doubt that anybody would label me that way, but I have operated my whole life with a background, low-level, constant fear that sometimes increases to debilitating levels. You could say that I'm a serious worrier. And I don't think that is ADHD. And, as far as I've read, it seems that fear is one of the main things that this Neurofeedback deals with/corrects. I could sure use some relief there!!!

Worry and fear are a problem for me too.
In my case, I think it comes from learning/seeing how so many things in the world are constantly riding a fine line of disaster (economic, power plants, weather- [the recent snow storm causing tons of issues where I live], and so on).

Honestly, it's a miracle that things don't fail more often, and honestly I cannot feel comfortable with that while so many don't seem to mind. It's something that I've always had a problem with, whether it makes me become very involved in trying to fix such problems (at work for example), or puts me in an apathetic state, killing motivation.

It's like that gut feeling you get when you sense something bad which helps us,
However, this being a more softer/general one which is sort of debilitating at times causing flight (apathy) or fight.

So, I went and signed up for a month rental of the NeurOptimal system and look forward to see if this can reset this underlying anxiety about things in general.

I also got the kindle/epub version of Open-Focus and will try those exercises too.
 

annp

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
Well, I'm not sure that ADHD is even useful as a label. I doubt that anybody would label me that way, but I have operated my whole life with a background, low-level, constant fear that sometimes increases to debilitating levels. You could say that I'm a serious worrier. And I don't think that is ADHD. And, as far as I've read, it seems that fear is one of the main things that this Neurofeedback deals with/corrects. I could sure use some relief there!!!

Same here – I have had fear running in the background since childhood, my family used to call me ‘worry-wart’. I worked at overcoming a lot of my anxieties and inhibitions over the years and found a number of coping skills that helped to keep the effects minimized so I could function. Staying too busy to notice was (still is) a favorite. Once I stopped working full-time though it has been tough. Always marveled at how so many people seem to just let things roll off their backs seemingly without a care in the world - or maybe they are better at hiding it! I certainly worked at that as well…

Of course knowing what we do about the state of the planet and what is coming our way sure doesn’t help, but I would still rather know the truth.

Am very interested in researching this more and will order the book. I have become a bit despondent lately as so many things I have tried – therapy, EMDR, acupuncture, supplements and meditation all have helped but have really been just temporary fixes as my brain eventually reverts to its standard operating mode. If this really builds a new brain, it will be miracle.

Thanks to everyone for sharing the information and links!!! :flowers:
 

shijing

The Living Force
I was impressed by a recent interview with Niki Gratrix on 'How Emotional Trauma Prevents Healthy Detox' for the upcoming Heavy Metals Summit, so I searched her site for neurofeedback and found the following page:

https://www.nikigratrix.com/neurofeedback-number-one-treatment-emotional-trauma/

I think the interview with Bessel van der Kolk that she embeds in her article is quite good and worth a listen:

http://neurofeedback2015.kajabi.com/fe/79711-rewiring-the-brain-free-ce-seminar
 

Hesper

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Thank you for the thread and information, everyone. I had an appointment with a biofeedback practitioner back in mid-December. We did physiological and Quantitative EEG tests. Due to the hectic holiday season I wasn't able to get my results until this week, but the findings were pretty promising.

Overall it looks like I've got a typical reaction to stress but that I never return to a normal baseline. So as the stress builds up over the day it begins to look like I'm running a marathon. During an imagery exercise, where the client imagines something stressful happening to them, my body was registering a panic attack but it didn't feel much different than normal.

Overall my brain activity is well organized but with mild dysregulations in regions associated with memory, bonding, processing nonverbal aspects of communication, and self-soothing. The practitioner recommended 10 sessions worth of exercises (once per week) and 10 weeks of homework using an app that helps people monitor and control their heart rate.

By the time we were done going over the findings I was really just amazed at getting a peek 'under the hood,' so to speak. Very, very interesting stuff. Having trouble processing nonverbal aspects of communication was a real doozy as a kid, and explains why I felt like a detective trying to figure out a lot of things that were going on but were left unsaid.

Sounds like I should be done with the training in 2 1/2 to 3 months so I'll report on whether or not it seemed to have had an effect, and how significant it was. I'll definitely be reading the book you all recommended in the meantime.
 
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