New book by Madame de Salzmann: The Reality of Being

[mada85]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

My copy arrived today, with a bookmark from the seller at page 31, where Madame de Salzmann says:

13. My functions are passive

Whatever the state in which I find myself at this moment, whatever the sense of the force I manifest, the highest possibilities are here, hidden by the thick screen of my passivity in believing in my self-sufficiency. My destiny begins when I feel the call of another force in me and respond to it voluntarily. This is my first voluntary act, becoming available to a reality that changes my purpose for living. I am here in order to hear this force, not to expect something from it or to appropriate it. I am here to understand the action that will create the possibility of a responsible life.

Added: from the jacket blurb –

Before he died Gurdjieff charged Mme. De Salzmann to live to be 'over 100' in order to establish his teaching. [She was born in 1889.] He left her all his rights with respect to his writings and dance exercises called the 'Movements'. During the next ofrty years she arranged for publication of his books and preservation of the movements, and established Gurdjieff centres to practice the teaching in PAris, New York and London, as well as Caracas, Venezuala.

Mme. De Salzmann died at the age of 101 in Paris in 1990.

 

[Argonaut]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

Before he died Gurdjieff charged Mme. De Salzmann to live to be 'over 100' in order to establish his teaching. [She was born in 1889.] He left her all his rights with respect to his writings and dance exercises called the 'Movements'. During the next ofrty years she arranged for publication of his books and preservation of the movements, and established Gurdjieff centres to practice the teaching in PAris, New York and London, as well as Caracas, Venezuala.

Mme. De Salzmann died at the age of 101 in Paris in 1990.

Wow. If anyone was G's true successor, it seems to have been Mme. De Salzmann. And her death at precisely "over 100" appears to confirm that!

 

[anart]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

Before he died Gurdjieff charged Mme. De Salzmann to live to be 'over 100' in order to establish his teaching. [She was born in 1889.] He left her all his rights with respect to his writings and dance exercises called the 'Movements'. During the next ofrty years she arranged for publication of his books and preservation of the movements, and established Gurdjieff centres to practice the teaching in PAris, New York and London, as well as Caracas, Venezuala.

Mme. De Salzmann died at the age of 101 in Paris in 1990.

Wow. If anyone was G's true successor, it seems to have been Mme. De Salzmann. And her death at precisely "over 100" appears to confirm that!

I'm curious about why you think her death at 101 confirms that?

I have enormous respect for Mme De Salzmann, but I'm not quite following your logic.

 

[Argonaut]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

Before he died Gurdjieff charged Mme. De Salzmann to live to be 'over 100' in order to establish his teaching. [She was born in 1889.] He left her all his rights with respect to his writings and dance exercises called the 'Movements'. During the next ofrty years she arranged for publication of his books and preservation of the movements, and established Gurdjieff centres to practice the teaching in PAris, New York and London, as well as Caracas, Venezuala.

Mme. De Salzmann died at the age of 101 in Paris in 1990.

Wow. If anyone was G's true successor, it seems to have been Mme. De Salzmann. And her death at precisely "over 100" appears to confirm that!

I'm curious about why you think her death at 101 confirms that?

I have enormous respect for Mme De Salzmann, but I'm not quite following your logic.

I was thinking that it seems Mme De Salzmann consciously chose her "exit point" in accordance with a charge given directly from Gurdjieff. The teachings she delivered are the important thing. But I thought her age of death might be extra confirmation that she was a true successor who knew what she was doing, not just a wishful thinker like many other Gurdjieff students.

 

[percival]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

I just picked up the book.I've got boxes of books devoted to the work and this one looks excellent.It's definitely not a book you just sit down and read cover to cover and set aside,best read and digested slowly.I'm sure I'll be referring back to this one for a long time to come.

 

[Vulcan59]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

Hi percival,

Welcome to the forum. :) We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, and how they found their way here. Have a read through that section to get an idea of how others have done it. Thanks.

 

[Alejo]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

Hey guys, speaking of Madame de Salzmann I just found a video which shows the Gurdjieff movements presented by her and didn't find any reference to it in the Forum so I decided to post it, maybe some of you have seen it. It looks genuine, but what I would have done if I were the maker of the video was to give much more detial as to what each movement does, how and why. Anyway, here you can download it, it's in english with japanese subtitles (a friend of mine recognized the language from a snapshot i made):

_http://rapidshare.com/files/92617591/The_Gurdjieff_Movements_are_here_presented_by_Jeanne_de_Salzmann.avi

You can also watch it in parts here:

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Ryln0tXwU&feature=PlayList&p=2C8F7DCF8754A78F&index=0
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxkRwbjw2AI&feature=PlayList&p=2C8F7DCF8754A78F&index=1
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDebhPLLCpQ&feature=PlayList&p=2C8F7DCF8754A78F&index=2
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JcNsDvxZ9E&feature=PlayList&p=2C8F7DCF8754A78F&index=3
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csgeqm6a4o4&feature=PlayList&p=2C8F7DCF8754A78F&index=4
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsPQsndxWQ8&feature=PlayList&p=2C8F7DCF8754A78F&index=5

Any thoughts?

The Videos look so impressive.. wow!! it really shows a group effort

 

[Tigersoap]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

I've started it a few days ago and it really comes at a right time for me.
I used to think I knew things but I don't, like it is described in the book. my mind is projecting itself upon what is, the duality of lower and higher, being reminded that it's struggling for something and not against is always welcome.

It's a slow read, I really like it, for what I understand and can apply to my own experience of course.

 

[3DStudent]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

It's a slow read, I really like it, for what I understand and can apply to my own experience of course.

Yeah, I'm reading mine slowly too. Sometimes I don't know what is being said so I try to take a guess, but other times I know and can apply it to myself. I really have to focus too when I read this, because I seem to dissociate very easily on this book. This wasn't so for the only other Work book I've read, ISOTM.

 

[gaman]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

It's a slow read, I really like it, for what I understand and can apply to my own experience of course.

Yeah, I'm reading mine slowly too. Sometimes I don't know what is being said so I try to take a guess, but other times I know and can apply it to myself. I really have to focus too when I read this, because I seem to dissociate very easily on this book. This wasn't so for the only other Work book I've read, ISOTM.

I hear you on that. I've like what I've read so far (at least where I've understood it) but I can only read a section or so at a time. I seem to alternate between a slower reading book and one that is easier to understand and digest, but it seems right now I'm down to this book and trying to finish Beelzebub's Tales so I'm working through a double whammy! :)

 

[Helle]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

I can only read a section or so at a time.

I'm a little relieved about this, because I felt rather dense, not understanding a lot of the book. :)

To me it seems like a book you ought to read with other people and network, so certain things could be discussed, and thus understood better hopefully.

I'll share a little snip that I read today, which got me thinking about the Prayer of the soul, and how I see it(the pots) as a means of perceiving the real Truth.

My relation with my thinking must change. I have to see its conditioning and lose all illusion of its capacity to perceive directly what is beyond its functioning. Truth simply cannot be thought. It cannot be looked for by the thinking alone, or by the wish to acquire or to become. Truth does nor become, it IS.
...
I need to be free enough to discard everything and to question without expecting an answer. I understand that not knowing, discarding everything, is the highest form of thinking, and that if an answer comes, it will be false. I have to stay without answering and learn to see, to see without judging, without a thought, without a word. To see is an extraordinary act which requires an attention that is unknown to me.
..
Attention is the essential energy in man. And this energy can only appear when one is constantly occupied in seeing, in listening, in questioning - never in knowing with my thinking mind. We must give our complete attention to the question in front of us. The attention will not be total if we seek an answer. Total attention is the process of meditation.

So ! Clear my eyes that I may see, clear my ears that I may hear, cleanse my heart that I may know and love, the holiness of true exsistence, Divine Cosmic Mind.

 

[realitybugll]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

I'm sure Madame de Salzmann notes are valuable but I am considering what this person says. It's an amazon review, the part I bolded was definitely cautioning to me. I don't think Madame de Salzmann published any books in her lifetime. It does seem a bit disrespectful in a way to publish her private notes. who is behind this book anyways? And the reviewer raises a good point about the translation... is it possible to get ahold of her notes in french? I find it strange that after 20 years her notes have finally been gathered together. and by whom? was this done by a Gurdjieff society, specifically one that Madame de Salzmann started? that would be a bit consoling. well I'm probably going to look into this more.

If you're a Gurdjieff hobbyist and you are a collector that collects everything that is somehow related to the Fourth way including coffee mugs with the enneagram on it then by all means buy this book and add it to your fourth way collection.
The beginning of the book praises Gurdjieff and his understanding of his own system. The rest of the book are notes that Jeanne wrote to herself as reminders of what she observed and her explanation of the observation according to the state she was in at the time of the observation. The voice of the book is not what I imagined she would sound like but this is only because she spoke French and her notes were probably written in French. Therefore her voice may have been lost in the translation. This might bring one to wonder why the book wasn't published in French first. The back cover has a comment that I found strange, it says that it was a book that she `intended to publish'. Why would someone need to put that on the jacket is kind of strange, the woman did live to 102 if she intended to publish it I'm sure she had the resources, time and money to publish several encyclopedias, unless she was planning to make it to 150 years old and publish the book on her 150th birthday, or its possible that she didn't want it published. After all she had worked on herself for many years, had developed a will to `do' anything she `wished' so for someone to be as disgracefully ostentatious as to take on the responsibility to publish a book such as the private thoughts of Jean is absolutely offensive to Jean and to the whole fourth way community wrapped around this earth we all live on and share. There could be any number of reasons, lets just say that it's a question we can all work on. Of course she may have given someone special instructions to publish this book, for example; to publish it years after her death. Its not uncommon in fourth way communities to solve doubts about illegitimate children and how the work should be carried on by waiting until the players in question are deceased; afterwards inventing some explanation that cannot be proved nor disputed by any of the deceased people in question. Some Gurdjieffians accept these statements as truth others ask `well why didn't they say it themselves when they were alive?' For example that Gurdjieff told Jean that she should carry on his work after his death while he was in his death bed. Only Jean was present at this place, Gurdjieff himself made it clear in writing in his books that he has liquidated all his schools and that the seeker should not join any schools that make claims to continuing his work. Again special instructions that cannot be proved nor disproved. Could it be possible that Gurdjieffians are all honest and never tell a lie? There could be any number of reasons, lets just say that it's a question we can all work on. The book is reasonably priced for $[...] and Amazon.com goes the extra mile in combining this book with two others for a special price of $[...], perhaps in a few months they'll throw in two sets of books plus two pairs of reading glasses for the same price and all you have to do is pay shipping and handling costs. If after reading the books you are not satisfied you can return the sets and get a full refund. It's a question we can all work on.

 

[obyvatel]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

I'm sure Madame de Salzmann notes are valuable but I am considering what this person says. It's an amazon review, the part I bolded was definitely cautioning to me. I don't think Madame de Salzmann published any books in her lifetime. It does seem a bit disrespectful in a way to publish her private notes.
...................

[quote author=Amazon review] The back cover has a comment that I found strange, it says that it was a book that she `intended to publish'.

[/quote]
I could not find any such statement in the back cover of my copy. In the foreword it is written
[quote author=Reality of Being]
Mme de Salzmann was constantly reflecting on the reality of being and writing down her thoughts in her notebooks.
.........
She kept these notebooks like diaries up to her last years.
...........
At ninety one she remarked:
I am writing a book on how to be in life, on the path to take in order to live on two levels. It will show how to find a balance, to go from one to the other, or rather to find a way in between. We have to see beyond, and through, our ordinary thinking in order to open to another mind.
..............
When she dies ten years later, she left the notebooks intact, carefully preserved. To those closest to her, this was a clear sign of the legacy she intended for this material : to help complete Gurdjieff's writing on a true vision of reality and fulfill his mission to bring a lost system of knowledge to the modern world.
[/quote]
"those closest to her" are a "small group of Jeanne de Salzmann's family and followers". I could not find any names.

Personally, I did not find anything helpful about that amazon review. Tongue in cheek comments, speculations, contradictions etc - nothing really relevant to the book itself.
[quote author=amazon review]
After all she had worked on herself for many years, had developed a will to `do' anything she `wished' so for someone to be as disgracefully ostentatious as to take on the responsibility to publish a book such as the private thoughts of Jean is absolutely offensive to Jean and to the whole fourth way community wrapped around this earth we all live on and share.
[/quote]
Here he/she is worried about what is "absolutely offensive to Jean and 4th Way community". Then he writes
[quote author=amazon review]
Of course she may have given someone special instructions to publish this book, for example; to publish it years after her death. Its not uncommon in fourth way communities to solve doubts about illegitimate children and how the work should be carried on by waiting until the players in question are deceased; afterwards inventing some explanation that cannot be proved nor disputed by any of the deceased people in question. Some Gurdjieffians accept these statements as truth others ask `well why didn't they say it themselves when they were alive?' For example that Gurdjieff told Jean that she should carry on his work after his death while he was in his death bed. Only Jean was present at this place, Gurdjieff himself made it clear in writing in his books that he has liquidated all his schools and that the seeker should not join any schools that make claims to continuing his work. Again special instructions that cannot be proved nor disproved. Could it be possible that Gurdjieffians are all honest and never tell a lie?
[/quote]
Here he/she questions the integrity of Mme Salzmann herself. Then why bother with the book at all? Does not make much sense to me.

 

[realitybugll]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

thanks for your thoughts obyvatel. that is a good example you point out. the writer does seem to question her integrity while at the same time being extremely "protective" of her. I didn't catch this and just skip over the parts that don't catch my attention. really the bolded part is the only part that caught my attention. can the entire review be dismissed based on some illogical conclusions?...maybe.
people like to rant on amazon. like the thought process is 'if I am going to write a review...then I'm going to make it dramatic so it affects people' or sometimes conversely 'this book inspired me / disgusted me so much that I HAVE TO write a review'. A combination of both maybe.

I'm not sure what your trying to say when you wrote "Then why bother with the book at all? Does not make much sense to me." the impression I got is that the writer did not bother with the book. he does not attack the text at all and so I am doubting he read the book. he really just attacks just the premise of the book and how it came to be I think. but I understand some of what he is saying...

 

[obyvatel]

Re: New book by Madame de Salzmann

I'm not sure what your trying to say when you wrote "Then why bother with the book at all? Does not make much sense to me." the impression I got is that the writer did not bother with the book. he does not attack the text at all and so I am doubting he read the book. he really just attacks just the premise of the book and how it came to be I think. but I understand some of what he is saying...

Sorry for the lack of clarity. What I wanted to say was if the author of the review has a low opinion of Mm Salzmann and Gurdjieffians, why bother with writing a review for this book. He/she did not bother with the contents of the book for sure.