Romantic Fiction, Reality Shaping and The Work

[placematt]

hey everyone,

I wanted to quickly share my experience with this experiment. So i have just finished Lady Isabella's Scandalous Marriage, the second book in the Mckenzie & McBride series. I have really engaged with the character of Mac. What i actually struggled with though, towards the end of the book Ian tells Mac to bare his soul to Isabella. And the discomfort is really quite apparent in Mac. Couple of chapters in, Mac does exactly this. And boy oh boy did my programs go bonkers. Even shed a few tears, physical discomfort, urge to stop reading. This schism of fear i seemed to have when mac did this, everything in my head was essentially screaming at him not too. Maybe due to the programs i have picked up with this culture, with viewing inter gender dynamics as dangerous and sour. So i really struggled with this, then I was watching something and the dude had said that todays dating works on fallen people. ( kinda religious but the takeaway is people who aren't working on themselves.) So this entire system of "courtship" i had picked up is entirely wrong for the relationship that would actually be right for me. It's like a switch went off. And I was pretty upset but was mostly observing this struggle between the programs and what mac was doing. Even though its fiction, I thought it was so brave to do what he had done, to "bare his soul". For a role model in this facet of life, these books are actually really nice. Something I have never actually had before. So interesting is the perspective. I'm going to keep reading because apart of me wants to stop, the part that wants to keep this view on relationships and what that entails so as to support my choice to be by myself. even now I'm still emotional, really thought provoking experience. It's been a very enlightening experience, and Im stoked to be apart of it.

 

[seek10]

I finished the 3rd book of the 'Sons of Sin' - What a Duke dares. The book started with the usual formula - Indian Movie script ( Duke arriving at the right time to rescue the female protagonist, Henry running away with his lover only to be chased by his powerful ambitious brother and Penelope taking the blow to cool things down ), Western movie steamy parts, a strong independent woman wants to get what her heart craves challenging the very strong man to drop his facade of invulnerability and power. I really enjoyed the conversation (ended up listening twice) of the final confrontation of protagonists that sealed bonding of hearts which was a very delicate scene. I really enjoyed last 20% of the story.

 

[Konstantin]

Just now I finished the second book in the series "Sons of Sin, volume 2" about Richard and Genevieve. In between first and the second volume, I read the small one " The days or Rakes and Roses).

That small book between these 2 volumes, have another love story between Lydia, the sister od Can, and the old lost love from her childhood who at the end becomes her true love.

In this second volume, I noticed the same patterns. Both of them have their own programs, their own plans in their lives. But then something happens and there is an unexplained physical attraction between them. That attractions become so strong, but at the same time, their programs are kicking stronger.

Then the sexual connection happens and that physical, sexual connection made all their guards, all their plans to fall down.
Like they were different persons. They cared more about each other than to themselves. Both of them, Richard and Genevieve as characters showed very STo characteristics at the end. Care for others' needs and wellbeing, justice, and love, was the reality that they created at the end. Very interesting concept of how one can have a real relationship with the opposite sex, to have a healthy physical and sexual relationship, and in the same time be on the STO side of the spectrum.

Concepts like this are lacking in our sick reality today, where sex is just a sick perversion that is used to divide and hurt normal human beings, and real love and respect have totally lost their real meaning.
Books like this are like eye-openers, like reminders how normal human relationships ( not just romantic relationships) should really be.
We can see how Richard friends give him a rough and direct mirror when they found him lost in his lies, and when he realizes the damage that he can do with that and when he starts to resolve the whole thing, his friends as real and honest people are helping him with whatever they can.

From the emotional aspect, the most emotional for me was the last part, the Epilogue.
The part where Richard is listening to his mother's confession really provoked some stronger emotions in me.

The whole book is interesting, easy, and pleasant for reading. I can't recognize myself reading Romantic novels. If someone would tell me That I would read this I would probably laugh.
But it is interesting and I will continue with the third volume in this series.

 

[latulipenoire]

Well, inquiring minds want to know, though it really is about the cheesiest title ever dreamed up and in almost no way really reflects the story (or only a small part of it), the book is: "Seven Nights in a Rogue's Bed" {{{Shudder}}} and is by Anna Campbell. It is book one of a four volume set. The other three volumes are, in order: "A Rake's Midnight Kiss", "What a Duke Dares", and "A Scoundrel by Moonlight." There's a really fiendish villain who lurks through these volumes and some very interesting adventures along with the romance. This set is medium-high heat level, but the sex is not gratuitous; it is actually crucial to the plots.

I can appreciate what Neil wrote about young, single men and the burden that reading such literature might place on them. For them, the works of Mary Balogh might be better as the heat is much lower, but there is still enough "instructional" material to help them to visualize what a good relationship would be like.

One of you noted that these books are written by women. Yup, that's a fact. And a good thing, too. How better to learn how to relate to a woman (assuming that is what one wishes to do?) than to read the combined/condensed/almost formulaic descriptions of ideal relations (including sexual) from a woman's point of view? I've read a number of novels by men that included sex scenes to know that nearly all of them I ever read, had very little to do with love, monogamous relationships, family, children, and frankly, left me cold and revolted.

One of you mentioned reading novels about love and relationships in a modern setting that also talk about various problems we face in the modern world such as affairs with married men, children out of wedlock, or whatever. I don't think that is exactly what I had in mind when suggesting the reading of CERTAIN books in an effort to generate the emotions that might help to create a conduit of transformative energy. These books I'm talking about are highly idealized in terms of VALUES, though the issues the people deal with are, in many ways, similar to the issues of our own time. It is the idealized values and responses to the demands of same that interests me. It's a higher standard, emotionally speaking, than what one can derive from modern psychological dramas.

This is it in a nutshell. All of these books that I'm concerned with do exactly that: people getting over themselves for the sake of others. And they do so in spite of just agonizing internal considering!!! The four books mentioned above are exactly that.

I've been reading "Seven Nights in a Rogue's Bed" for the past days and it's surprising me, both in terms of the development of the protagonists and the values and qualities of their personalities. The sex scenes are not gratuitous and the story is compelling, as Laura wrote, dealing with so many issues I've faced and some that need still to be faced.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

I’ve not been reading all the comments here too closely yet since I started Seven Nights and read a post that gave away the whole story, LOL. I’ve been listening to those recommended books that are free and available on audio via the Hoopla and Libby apps and finished The Madness of Lord Ian Mackenzie by Jennifer Ashley and went on to the Daring Duke by Jess Michaela. Now I’m about 4 hours into Marry In Haste by Anne Gracie, and they really haven’t gotten to the “romance” part of it yet, although I’ve still got 7 more hours to go. I wanted to sample some of the different authors first, and then I’ll go back and listen to the rest of their series.

I started reading romances in my teens. I wasn’t popular in school and never had a boyfriend or dated so I got my fix from the novels, although I don’t remember them being quite so explicit back then. The few relationships I’ve had later in life haven't come close to anything like the books though, they probably ruined me for reality. None of the guys treated me anything remotely like the heroines, and I never physically experienced any electric shocks at their touch, or passionate waves of bliss et al., and I think I must have been standing in the wrong line when they gave out hormones.

But If this is the idea of a new reality, bring it on!

 

[mkrnhr]

Finished the Sons of Sin series and the personal verdict is (Cam and Penelope > Richard and Genievre > Jonas and Sidonie) >> Leath and Eleanor. Still conflicted about the fourth story but that may be due to the emotional disconnect that happened reading about the library incident which spoiled the rest of the story.
Started with the Courting Julia trilogy but after a few pages, the writing style is very different and somehow harder to follow with more convoluted sentences. There is also the aprehension of complicated family ties (the aunt of the half brother of the nephew of the great half uncle of the ex wife of the brother in law of of...) which I don't understand even in my own family (long ago at a wedding, an old man seeing my confusion told me "if they have blue eyes, they're family, otherwise ask who they are").

 

[seek10]

I remember that several years ago I had an interesting experience with EE. I started doing the round breathing portion, and I felt sexual arousal, but I continued with breathing. After that I did a meditation and after some time I felt some kind of sexual energy all over my body, it wasn't just in my genitals, it was everywhere. It was a very strong feeling. When I woke up, I saw that my aunt came to us and I greeted her and put my hand on her shoulder. She told me that she felt a very strong positive energy coming from me. She never told me that before.

I am just curious and probably never felt or miscategorized, how do we know it is sexual energy?

 

[genero81]

From what I'm surmising so far, this sort of raw physical attraction that draws these characters into, let's call it charged sexual engagement, seems to provide the energy that fuels the process of bringing to resolution unresolved issues that have hindered the soul's involved in said engagement from reaching full expression of their latent potentialities by way of genuine concern for the welfare of the other driven by a developing genuine love. These romantic dramas seem to have the effect of causing a separation of two different natures within the characters themselves, and the higher emotional center having been so activated, draws the soul up from it's lethargic and self perpetuating engagement of the lower emotional centers to a greater expression of freedom and fulfillment.

But I have to get back to reading Collingwood for now. I have made a start on 'Tempting Harriet,' however.

 

[hlat]

My wife finished Anne Gracie's Marry in Secret and is on the waitlist for book 4 Marry in Scarlet. I'm halfway through book 1 Marry in Haste, and the sex has been brief so far.

I asked my wife what she thought of the books so far. Her initial thought was surprise that these kinds of books are recommended of the forum, because she thought her and I have good morals and values and don't need these books to teach us that. I asked her if she set herself and me aside, would she still be surprised these books are recommended. Then she said she wasn't surprised, because people who are in need of role models could learn from these books.

I can see analogies from the book applying to our lives, mainly in the form of family responsibility. In the book, Henry was a bad lord, abandoning his pregnant wife and subsequent daughter, firing servants and condemning them to unemployment without the culturally necessary letters of recommendation or not providing a pension for those too old to work. On the other hand, protagonist Cal cleaned up his brother Henry's irresponsibility, arranging for the proper care for the abandoned daughter and servants. I felt I could relate to cleaning up after my in laws when they abandoned their daughter. I also thought of the concept of noblesse oblige, at least as I superficially understand it, where the rich and powerful act responsibly towards their family, servants, and society. The idea that a lord would pay a pension to his retired servant was new to me.

 

[whitecoast]

Yesterday I finished Courting Julia by Mary Balough. She seems to be a better writer than Emily Hendrickson. The characters really come alive in the writing, and it was engrossing to see how the various characters interacted over the course of the novel. There is a similar thread to that others observed here, of the sexual energy being used to connect to the higher emotional center and so gently bypassing and bringing to light the negative emotional programming each of the characters has. The more physical scenes were more explicit than in Unexpected Wife. The emotional conflicts within a number of scenes also in my opinion had a lot more depth to them, and so I could feel much more sympathetic. When the protagonist Julia was relating a story to her best friend about a passionate kiss she had with Daniel and his marriage proposal (which she rejected), and recapitulating all the hurt that had happened between them, I was simply spellbound. Toward the end of that scene I felt what could almost be described as a kundalini-like movement of feeling in my body, curling my fingers and toes and opening my heart and head up more, after which I felt a lot lighter and joyeous and clear-headed. That evening I also turned my apartment upside-down reorganizing and cleaning due to the amount of energy I had. I was deeply touched by Daniel's wedding proposal to Julia, and their denouements and exchanges surrounding that, where all their defenses fell. From the first Chapter to the very end the author kept a very strong emotional and dramatic tension between Julia and Daniel, and it was worth every sentence.

I look forward to volume 2, a bit miffed but intrigued that it's about the antagonist in the first novel, who screwed up big time. I wonder if true love will heal his damaged heart also???

 

[Laura]

My wife finished Anne Gracie's Marry in Secret and is on the waitlist for book 4 Marry in Scarlet. I'm halfway through book 1 Marry in Haste, and the sex has been brief so far.

I asked my wife what she thought of the books so far. Her initial thought was surprise that these kinds of books are recommended of the forum, because she thought her and I have good morals and values and don't need these books to teach us that. I asked her if she set herself and me aside, would she still be surprised these books are recommended. Then she said she wasn't surprised, because people who are in need of role models could learn from these books.

I think that both of you will enjoy the Merridew series: "Perfect Rake", "Perfect Waltz", "Perfect Stranger", and "Perfect Kiss."

 

[luc]

I’ve not been reading all the comments here too closely yet since I started Seven Nights and read a post that gave away the whole story, LOL.

Yes, PLEASE people, give spoiler warnings!! I'm following this thread yet haven't read all those books yet, like many others I guess. Please!

Started with the Courting Julia trilogy but after a few pages, the writing style is very different and somehow harder to follow with more convoluted sentences. There is also the aprehension of complicated family ties (the aunt of the half brother of the nephew of the great half uncle of the ex wife of the brother in law of of...) which I don't understand even in my own family (long ago at a wedding, an old man seeing my confusion told me "if they have blue eyes, they're family, otherwise ask who they are").

Started with this too, my first ones Really enjoying it so far and giving me positive vibes, I'll share some thoughts when I have finished. I know what you mean about these family relations, it seems that men in particular are generally really bad in understanding and following these things. Took me forever figuring out my own family, and I still confuse stuff. But it's a useful exercise IMO. Also, keep reading, after a while it becomes very clear who is who, and you don't need to remember the detailed relations of the minor characters. I was shocked too when I read about those family relations on the first few pages, but I think the author does a good job in making you understand how it all fits together in the first few chapters.

 

[Gwenllian]

I finished Anne Gracie's Marry in Haste last night and I really liked it. I have been fascinated by this new project from the beginning and quite enthusiastic as well. Looking back I have felt a certain need to learn more about relationships between men and women for years, but ended up watching productions or reading books that were written by virgins (I think) like the Brontë sisters (Wuthering Heights, Jane Eyre) and Jane Austen. Women who never experienced a sexual and intimate relationship and growth in marriage, which is clearly missing in their work IMO. So, I am really happy with this project, because I know I can learn a lot from these books and many posts!

Learning to adopt a healthy attitude towards sex, intimacy and sensuality is an important goal in my eyes, which ties in with (the courage to show our) vulnerability and 'being known', if it doesn't revolve around pure lust, which is synonymous for sex for many peeps nowadays.

I liked the fact that the main characters in Marry in Haste acted with intent without dwelling too much on their internal consideration and as far as I can tell they didn't anticipate anything, they just acted and in doing so, their love for each other could develop and grow. The fact that Emm comes clean and tells her husband, Cal, about her past, preventing things from going south, was an important marker in the story and enabled him to defend and stand by her and make things right for her (I know, no spoilers!). Basically, he applied the knowledge she had given him.

I have to wait for a couple of days for my kindle and more books to arrive, oh brother!

 

[genero81]

I know what you mean about these family relations, it seems that men in particular are generally really bad in understanding and following these things. Took me forever figuring out my own family, and I still confuse stuff. But it's a useful exercise IMO. Also, keep reading, after a while it becomes very clear who is who, and you don't need to remember the detailed relations of the minor characters. I was shocked too when I read about those family relations on the first few pages, but I think the author does a good job in making you understand how it all fits together in the first few chapters.

Right, Balogh was just setting up how it was Julia was part of the family without a direct blood connection, so that courting her 'cousins' whom she'd grown up with wouldn't be incest.

 

[Laura]

We've had a few more discussions here about these books so I'll recap a bit of my thinking.

The stories utilize the framework of a particular time and place in history as plot devices. However, notice that the characters and situations do not necessarily (actually, rarely) follow the normal social expectations of that milieu. Nearly all of our heroes and heroines step outside of what was expected of them. Marrying for love at that time was almost unheard of among the upper classes. Those who did pursue "true love" at the time almost always ended up beyond the pale; Lord Byron, Caroline Lamb are examples. The terrible story of Georgiana Spencer Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire is another case in point. Many members of that class were libertine hypocrites.

So, our stories aren't very true to life at the time, or if so, only rarely.

Nevertheless, our characters most often demonstrate - as others have noticed - pronounced STO tendencies. I am reminded that the Cs once described the STO nature as "one who gives to those who ask". And, of course, the "asking" and "giving" have special parameters. My thought, at about the time the Cs said that was, that almost no one is able to do that even in a marital relationship - or especially in a marital relationship - so how the heck can people really learn what that means, to give ALL to just ONE who is asking???

But we see these characters working toward just such an end.

Now, not all romance novels have this unique set-up and set of outcomes; the ones I've selected all have this pattern in common and I've rejected a whole slew of others that just weren't even close. Believe it or not, there are romance novels about B&D and S&M. One of the Mackenzie characters veers perilously close, but it turns out to be not that, but rather some sort of fetish. On that score, there are a number of "different strokes" within normal ranges, I think, so that should not distract anyone.

As to whether it is necessary for the characters to be lords and ladies, I don't think so. Quite a few are simply about middle class people though they all seem to be wealthy. Those are the features that attract readers. But, the values and principles that are important to the characters are easily translated to ordinary life at any level, I think. It just so happens that the social system of that historical time proclaimed certain values even if they were seldom met in reality, and that's what makes it amenable to the presentation of these stories. Obviously, a lesson can be taken from the fact that in the real history, nothing was as it was represented. The Victorian Era was a seething mass of hypocrisy for the most part. Yet, in a world where ideals prevail, the values and principles presented are actually quite noble; but only as enacted by our characters; not necessarily belonging to their larger world. The outer story world is not a bed of roses as many of the stories show.

I hope that someone will start with the 1797 club the "sins and scoundrels" series and give feedback on those. Both are excellent.