Nigel Kerner - Gray Aliens and the Harvesting of Souls

rofo6850 said:
Remember carefully that what is now going on in Middle East is not due to a fundamental flaw in semitic people, it is not due to a "psychopatic gene or trace inherited from the neanderthals", the truth is plain and simple and can be accessed by anyone who read the news, it is not necessary for me to teach you that international zionism has nothing to do with semitic groups.

I think you are confusing 2 ideas here as if we are saying that neanderthals are causing genocide of Palestinians or something. Yes... I am exagerating what you are saying but my point is that there are 2 ideas:

(1) The hypothesis that there is an intra-species predator within humanity whose characteristics fit the bill of psychopathy

This hypothesis of ours here in this forum is strongly influenced by the book "Political Ponerology" (PP) and reinforced by other mainstream works on psychopathy. According to PP, psychopaths have disproportionately strong influence on events in the human world with respect to their actual percentage in the population. Why? Well... He discusses that in length. Here we believe this hypothesis is pretty strongly supported within history, current events, and within scientific literature that explores psychopathy. You really have to begin with reading PP and studying the "art" of COINTELPRO to understand why we care so much about the difference between good old-fashioned human neurosis, schizoidal disorders, characteropathy, and psychopathy. If you want to understand our discussions and motivations and working hypotheses here in this forum, it is on you to get up to speed. Not a quick task, I admit...

Psychopathy exists in ALL races. I don't think we definitively know if the percentage of psychopaths is the same from race to race.

(2) Knowing that (1) is our hypothesis, the next idea, or question really... What is the origin of psychopathy?

Has this predator always existed within humanity? If not, how and when did it arise? This is where we have far less knowledge and researchers, principally Laura, are advancing bold hypotheses based on their research up to this point. We can change our mind if we want to.

So that is an extremely brief summation that missed a heck of a lot of information... At the point where you set your "trap," there was a call for information from academia on neanderthals. Instead of going along with the spirit of the thread, you acted like you were innocently adding something to the discussion (which as we have already said was irrelevant to the discussion) when really you were waiting for a certain reaction. Since you were not actually trying to add information to the thread but instead where waiting for a certain reaction, you were acting manipulatively. Then when you get your own thread you are more or less refusing to discuss Kerner. You are acting like a child who says, "If I can't have what I want on MY terms, then I don't want it at all." It is basically the "Now I am going to go eat worms and die" routine.

You have to keep in mind that in this age it is your people the one who is "leading" the process of destruction. It is not the semites. Maybe in preceding ages were the Atlantes, in this you are the "ones".

You know... You could have just said something like (probably in its own thread though), "Guys... I am just not buying this whole characterization of the neanderthals that we are building." Then you probably could have started a rather stimulating discussion though it might have required you to read some of what Laura is reading. Or... "Guys... I have a misgiving that our focus on psychopathy could give Caucasians an excuse to sweep under the rug all the damage they have done to indigenous cultures."

Well... On that note, you need to remember that many Europeans where indigenous peoples who got a hefty dose of colonisation from, most recently, the Romans. And we also need to be careful about romaticizing indigenous cultures. Some of them were as awful as the modern global control system just with much less reach. Example: Archaeologists think some of the tribes of Southern Mexico and Central America were clear-cutting a plot of jungle for a city, using it until the soil was depleted, and then clear cutting a new plot. Wow... That sounds really earth-loving and holistic to me.

The repetitiveness of human history is one of the reasons we ask "Why?" around here. The world seems to have some fundamental problems, and fundamental solutions are challenging to find mentally and emotionally.

By the way, you do know there are quite a few Latin Americans on this forum, don't you? In fact, some of them are involved with the fundamental research going on here.

So... Are you going to pack up your toys and go home? Or are you going to learn something?
 
Yea it has become pretty evident by now that rofo6850 has great deal of personal identification attached to the whole subject . As the result he perceives us (other discussants) as some sort of enemy or different tribe, it also appears to me rofo is very much hung up on self importance issue.

I wonder if anything we say at this point can be understood at all as long as rofo6850 is in this mode.

rofo6850 - somehow you managed to twist the discussion where laura presented her working hypothesis in order to collect more data into the quest to prove that only you got it right and everyone else has got it wrong. In the process this has become - me ( latino american) against you indo-europians.
Can you see at least this?
Can you see how convoluted, morose and contradictory this is? This is how predator mind usually manifests -your predator mind just got exposed.

The question is what are YOU ( Your real I) going to do about it - assuming that there is real I there.
 
rofo6850 said:
It is not an accusation, it is an observation, something I saw in this forum, don't remember
when and to who. I have nothing personally against you, believe me. I really appreciate what you have done. Only that in this particular issue I do not agree with your lecture of reality. It is only that.

Does not seems so:
rofo6850 said:
Sure, it is your forum and your place, it is exactly what I expected you to do.

rofo6850 said:
Anyway thank you for posting some of my messages in your forum. I will continue my journey in search of better winds.

rofo6850 said:
I expected this because I had seen it be done to other members of the forum who openly voiced their disagreement.

rofo6850 said:
I wonder why you resist so much such a vision of reality like that, maybe lack of self
criticism?


rofo6850 said:
The C's material is indeed interesting, but for me is an expression of the collective unconscious, it is not property of anyone. My reading of them is indeed different than yours, they have been clear about the nature of aryan people. And I will continue reading this material, unless of course you close the forum.

Have you clean your machine as to being able to have contact with your higher self?
While you do not do it remember that the material you talk about is the gift of someone's being in this case from Laura.

You seem to underestimate the hard and intense internal working that this represents, maybe because this is something you have not yet begun to do?
 
Thing is, Rofo quotes Kerner writing:

"The greatest savage of all our kind in the history of our human species has sadly been the white Euro-Caucasian. This is not a racist charge. It is simply the truth. Though outnumbered five to one in the world by other racial groups, the occidental whute has proved, in terms of numbers, to be the greates killer of the human genus the planet has ever known. The ratio of people killed by this group, set against this killed by nonoccidental groups over the past few thousand years, is estimated at over seven hundred to one. The Huns, the Goths, the Visigoths, the Vikings, the Angles, the Saxons, the Romans, the Greeks and more recently the Germans, the British, the French, the Russians, the Dutchs, the Spanish and the Portuguese have between them in their colonizing greed accounted for some of the most draconian evil against innocent humanity the world has ever known" - Chapter 12 - Lamb Among Wolves

And to a certain extent, this is absolutely correct. The question is WHY?

That "WHY?" is a howling cry across the pages of history because the fact is, that is not how it was in the beginning. After Cro-Magnon man arrived in Europe, europe apparently achieved a sort of nirvana civilization that was peaceful for over 25,000 years. They stayed there, were satisfied and stable and were, in fact, the last bastion of the hunter-gatherer way of life in the regions now known as "western society."

From "The Origins of Wars: Violence in Prehistory" we read:

Briefly, the long succession of wars, invasions, and destruction which
characterized the Eastern Mediterranean region during the second millennium
bce include: the destruction of the Babylonian empire by the Kassites and
Hittites; raids carried out by the Kingdom of Hatti across the whole of the
Anatolian periphery; nomad invasions which shook the Assyrian empire;
successful invasions by the pharaohs as far afield as Nubia and Syria; and
wars directed by the Ramessides against the Hittites and Sea Peoples.
Greek history seems to have been equally violent. In the third millennium
bce, eyries were built in the Cyclades islands and in Kastri (Syros) and concealed
behind fortified walls in order to prevent piracy in the surrounding
area. In Asia Minor, the second city of Troy erected fortified walls, flanked by
towers, on a hilltop; other cities in Anatolia, Syria, and Palestine had similar
defenses in place. In the second millennium bce, the Mycenean cities of
Mycenae, Tiryns, and Pylos barricaded themselves in behind heavily fortified
city walls and set about going to war.

Homer, the earliest of the Greek poets, set the tone in praising the virtues
of warfare. In the Iliad, he describes how the Greeks and Trojans became
enraged, thirsting for blood. Even the gods took sides, supporting their
heroes. Homer refers repeatedly to the heroes’ relentless efforts and describes
scenes of horrific fatal injuries and decapitated bodies as the war continued
to rage. Such sickeningly morbid details frequently form the focus of his
descriptions. The Odyssey is just as violent: upon his return to Ithaca, Ulysses
massacres Penelope’s suitors in cold blood, leading to all-out carnage. So it
seems that the Greeks, experts in the writings of Homer, were also schooled
in violence and severity.

The works of the three great ancient Greek historians – Herodotus,
Thucydides, and Xenophon – are largely devoted to warfare. Herodotus, the
“father of history” renowned for having documented many well-known events,
describes the battles that took place in the Aegean, Persia, Egypt, and the
land of the Scythians. Thucydides devoted himself entirely to his one work,
The History of the Peloponnesian War, which recounts the bloody confrontations
that occurred between Sparta and Athens during the fifth century bce.
Xenophon picks up where this narrative left off in 411 bce, describing the
final stages of this encounter. Later, in Anabasis, he describes the fate of those
Greek mercenaries who were in the pay of Cyrus, king of Persia, in the battle
which brought Cyrus head to head with his brother and tells of their retreat
through Anatolia back toward their motherland.

The Tragedians (Aeschylus, Euripides) alternate between accounts of war
and family dispute. The works of the Sophists (Protagoras, Hippias, Prodicus)
all refer to the advantages and disadvantages of war, some references being
more obvious than others. Philosophers often discuss combat in an attempt
to assign an ethical and existential value to the individual, enabling him
to fight against fate. Even Plato’s philosophical writings are scattered with
accounts of warfare as, for example, in the Symposium in which the troublemaker,
Alcibiades (himself a defeated war leader), describes Socrates’s exploits
at the battle of Potidaea.

The sacred texts of the great monotheistic religions are no more peaceoriented.
The Bible is a collection of military exploits: its exegesis reveals that
retaliation, war, revenge, deportations, and the capturing of prisoners were
common events. If we recognize that a large proportion of the verses are
derived from even older legends, as in the case of the Epic of Gilgamesh, then
the same glorification of violence can also be identified. Established in the
seventh century of the common era (ce), the Qur’an makes no attempts to
conceal its tendencies toward holy war or jihad as a way of subjugating or
destroying infidels, although the majority of its suras do preach tolerance.
Violent warfare also forms an integral part of India’s oldest religions.
The most ancient sacred texts, such as the Bhagavad-Gita, declare war to be
essential for any would-be hero. The Mahabharata, a Sanskrit epic of more
than 200,000 verses, is devoted entirely to the never-ending confrontations
between the Kaurava and the Pandava.

But what of ancient China, home of Confucianism and Taoism? Even
here, it is said that the king of Qin (from which the European name for
China is derived) had 240,000 people decapitated in 293 bce in an attempt to
end the war between Han and Wei. The reign of Huang Di, who brought
unity to China in the third century bce, followed a period of extensive
bloodshed.4 In around 500 bce, Chinese polemics expert Sun Tzu wrote The
Art of War, which was apparently considered to be an authoritative work
by Japanese military institutions right up to the attack on Pearl Harbor on
December 7, 1941.

In Central America, Cortez’s conquistadors were appalled by the human
sacrifices made during Aztec religious ceremonies, in which thousands of
people were put to death in just one day. However, under the protection of
the Cross, these very same Catholic conquistadors in turn slaughtered the
Mexican populations.

How should we interpret this global barbarity which has infiltrated history
from the very beginning? Has violent behavior been glorified and exaggerated
over time in the interests of a few omnipotent leaders? Was history written
primarily by the victorious and then manipulated for their own gain? Although
exaggerations may have been made at times, war is nevertheless present
throughout the earliest written works, both literary and religious. However,
rather than looking at such written evidence, this study will focus primarily
upon prehistoric archeology, exploring civilization before the advent of
writing systems. The main objective is to define the behavior of humans
before the emergence of the first states – this is essentially an archeological
enterprise. ...


Among predatory animals (carnivores such as felines and canines), confrontations
between individuals within the same social group frequently
erupt when prey is being shared out, particularly when such food is scarce.
Squabbles and fights break out as individuals chase each other around the
prey, awaiting their share. Intimidation tactics often result in biting and
serious injuries.

It has been known for aggressiveness to be taken one step further among
the big cats, most notably lions; females, sometimes accompanied by a dominant
male, have been observed killing and devouring the cubs of another
female. This behavior is far from common and seems to occur most notably
during severe food shortages. Chimpanzees have also been observed exhibiting
this extreme behavior, though again very rarely. In this case, however,
there is no evidence of omophagy, i.e., animal cannibalism, occurring.
Another level of violence (if one can apply the term to animal behavior)
can arise as a result of confrontation between two social groups, usually
carnivores such as felines, lycaons, and hyenas. Such confrontations are
almost always prompted by attempts to seize or defend territories valued for
hunting or predation. Anthropoid apes (chimpanzees and gorillas) also carry
out such attacks. Identifying the reasons for such behavior in predatory
carnivores and apes is far from easy. Whilst the instinctive urge to gain
control over territories rich in prey may well lead to fighting, other less
specific reasons have also been suggested by ethologists following research
carried out by Morris. It is claimed, for example, that modifications of an
ecological niche and specific pathological traits can trigger abnormal behavior.

The problem becomes all the more complex in the case of apes, which are
known to throw projectiles and even use branches as clubs when carrying out
assaults on other groups. Could this be how the use of weapons in prehuman
species first came about?

New research has also revealed a tendency to expel certain members of a
social group among certain species of ape. Whilst this generally prevents a
female from mating with her offspring, it also leads to aggressive behavior
within the group. This “biological” attempt to prevent incest (which the
authors in question claim to be Darwinian behavior) is highly significant: it
indicates that more complex social relations may have evolved in pre-human
primates, a complexity which is not exhibited by the other species of carnivorous
mammal discussed here. This behavior is accompanied by changes in the
cerebral capabilities of these apes which may have been responsible for the
emergence of new behavioral patterns in early humans and their descendants
with violence becoming a kind of “cerebral” behavior, at the center of new
urges and desires.11

Aggressiveness between different species, on the other hand, is related
primarily to predation. Whereas felines and canines hunt for prey, prehominid
apes were omnivorous. The Australopithecines, by contrast, are
often compared to vultures since they frequently devoured the remains of
herbivorous mammals left behind by predators. It is even possible that
Australopithecines may have exhibited a kind of “proto-fighting” behavior
prior to actual hunting, a behavior that would have continued to evolve
throughout the Paleolithic.

It is likely that predatory strategies and techniques became more complex
and “human-like” as cerebral capabilities evolved, as outlined above. As well
as leading to the development of hunting, this evolutionary process may also
have triggered more violent behavior with the same weapons being used both
in hunting and in fighting.

Thus it seems that a certain amount of biologically driven aggressive
behavior is directed at animals of the same species and becomes particularly
fierce when motivated by competition for sexual partners or food, though it
is very rare for any individual to be killed during such conflicts. By contrast,
playful interaction, rest, and “civility” all play an important part in feline
behavior.

When confrontation between different social groups within the same
species does occur, intimidation seems to be preferable to inflicting injury;
violent behavior is reserved for crisis situations when competition for hunting
territories is rife. Deaths often occur when individuals become isolated from
the group (due to immaturity, old age, or illness), thus losing the protection
offered by the group setting.

Murder is particularly rare among the apes and most notably among our
closest relatives, the anthropoid apes. Confrontations tend to involve the use
of projectiles. Incest is also prevented by aggressive, though not fatal, moves
to exclude certain individuals from the group.

If carrying out such research into our closest ancestors does indeed play an
essential part in identifying the beginnings of human violence, both on an
individual and a group level, then it seems that, as human beings, we cannot
resort to the excuse that our violence is a product of our pre-hominid evolution;
it is the human brain alone which has made us the most dangerous of
all animals.
 
Laura, I was preparing and answer when you posted yours.

It is interesting, it is maybe the only way we could explain human violence to peer's without appealing to metaphysical concepts. But the reason become unknown, that's why I have said maybe this issues could not be appropriated to one species or other, to Neanderthals or CroMagnon.

I am not saying violence is privative of Caucasians, what I am saying is that for some reason, aryans managed to develop a sophisticated intelect and tools to manipulate and control materiality, what indeed astronomically multiplicated their reach and the danger for others. This creativity, undeniable, as everything in this world, is a two edged sword. This is something very important that should not be overlooked. Ironically, there was a boost in CroMagnon intellect, but only there, it doesn't seem to be extensive to other areas, human nature still remains untouched.

I have read extensively your essays. I have understood you endorse a kind of idyllic scenery where all that is good and evoluted came from the north, from the purported Hiperboreans. You opposes clearly all aryans groups to a similarly purported evilness coming from Middle East, from other ratial groups, specially semitic.

In your model aryans came to be the promotors of evolution, nobility and values. Semitic groups carry the insane drive to insane religions that threaten the world. It is not I am defending my group, I am not of semitic origins.

Well, reality is a bit more complex, the threat is not only religious, the ominous killing machine that came from the Western civilization was no religious at all, it is far more dangerous, it controls matter and the material process and has successfully constructed a world of machines, holding a power impossible to counteract over less technically evolved people.

This is the crux of my worries, this is very important and should never be negated or forgetted by any means. That's why I posted some of Kerner ideas.
 
Patience

Two facts to consider:

1) The abduction phenomena seems to restrict to aryan groups, something admitted by Laura herself http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=16669.15

2) Nearly all the genocides and butchery's can be traced to show an aryan perpetrator, at least in the known history (including what you say about indigenous Europeans and Romans)

How can you possibly invert this facts?.

Repeating myself:

I am not saying violence is privative of Caucasians, what I am saying is that for some reason, aryans managed to develop a sophisticated intelect and tools to manipulate and control materiality, what indeed astronomically multiplicated their reach and the danger for others. This creativity, undeniable, as everything in this world, is a two edged sword. This is something very important that should not be overlooked. Ironically, there was a boost in CroMagnon intellect, but only there, it doesn't seem to be extensive to other areas, human nature still remains untouched.

You have very few latin american members. They had not said a word, I do not know why.

Corto, it is not me who has made this process of latin american vs caucasian, it is you, and not precisely latin american, but semitic, I am only trying to make it evident. I have no semitic origins, it is not about defending my own ethnia.

It seems that while you denounce the exploitation of the masses by the psychopathic leaders, you continue endorsing the very basic philosophy and idiosyncrasy that caused and continue causing this state of affairs.

Patience said:

You know... You could have just said something like (probably in its own thread though), "Guys... I am just not buying this whole characterization of the neanderthals that we are building." Then you probably could have started a rather stimulating discussion though it might have required you to read some of what Laura is reading. Or... "Guys... I have a misgiving that our focus on psychopathy could give Caucasians an excuse to sweep under the rug all the damage they have done to indigenous cultures."

I tried to do this, if you could find again my removed posts you could verify it. You are saying exactly what I tried to expose, not only as my opinion, but citing references
and others research.

Patience you say:

I have a misgiving that our focus on psychopathy could give Caucasians an excuse to sweep under the rug all the damage they have done to indigenous cultures.

I couldn't have said it better, keep in mind English is not my mother language.

It is not an accusation, I am only acting as a kind of devil advocate, pointing out what I can see as a blind spot. All of us commit mistakes, this issues are complex.

Sure you know of Stanley Milgram's experiment. There you can find the chilling truth about human nature, it is clearly exposed that the ruthlessness required by a Nazi officer to pour Zyklon-B gas into a gas chamber is actually present in many ordinary people normally regarded by themselves and others as decent human beings, it is terrifying to check you do not have to be a sadistic or deranged to put people into gas chambers. You just have to be human.

Psychopathy is not enough to explain this state of affairs, the problem lies in human nature and is displayed everytime, by everyone and everywhere. For some reasons normal people, not psychopats, are always drawn in this process and end being unconscious perpetrators.

While denouncing psychopathic leaders we sustain, each of one, this state of affairs.

What if we are never able to leave this place?, not until we prove ourselves capable of turning it into something different? what if what is expected of us is to transform this world of tears and suffering in something better? just thoughts, I do not know.

Then what should be all be doing? breathing? meditating? or getting our clothes dirty trying to help the victims and correct what is done wrong. This is no accusation, I have proved many paths, including breathing and meditating, but somehow they left me empty. It is enough to look around me to make all crumble down.

As I said this is not an accusation, it is an observation, which, I would like to, may serve to think about it, to reflect.

Corto, your commentaries are not answerable. It doesn't matter who I am, today I am saying this, maybe tomorrow someone else would do. What matters are the ideas, thoughts, not people. People can die, become mad, change their minds. It is the message what matters. Sure you could accuse me of being captured by my predator minds, or being directly the predator, for me it has few or any meaning.
 
Ana said:

Have you clean your machine as to being able to have contact with your higher self?
While you do not do it remember that the material you talk about is the gift of someones being in this case from Laura.

You seem to underestimate the hard and intense internal working that this represents, maybe because this is something you have not yet begun to do?

Not so, read my previous posts in this thread and you will check my sincere expression of gratitude to Laura. She has the equipment and the kindness to handle to everyone. But knowledge has no property, it is impersonal and do not belong to anyone.

I have not the kind of access Laura has to unconscious realms, however I have some, everyone of us has. I ask and receive answers, sometimes soon, sometimes later, sometimes awake as a thought or as an abstraction and sometimes dreaming, with all the adornments of dreams, symbolic and pictorial information.

My observations and critics came from there, as every inspiration and creativity we all have.
 
rofo6850 said:
Corto, your commentaries are not answerable. It doesn't matter who I am, today I am saying this, maybe tomorrow someone else would do. What matters are the ideas, thoughts, not people. People can die, become mad, change their minds. It is the message what matters. Sure you could accuse me of being captured by my predator minds, or being directly the predator, for me it has few or any meaning.
The thing is - after all this discourse I don't have a clue what your idea is.

You've been going back and forth, first it started with trying to prove that Kerner got it right and then it ended with accusation of antisemitism and glorification of Aryan race. Such outcome is very interesting paradox given the essence of the whole idea which is in a nutshell - Cromagnon mixed with neanderthals and this had implications to the entire human population as we know it today, regardless of race.

But it seems your cup is not just full but over-spilling and in such state you will never understand neither the spirit of true networking we are trying to promote on this forum nor Work one is required to do in order to clean their machine.

So I rest my case
 
Corto, read again my posts, it is clear.

You seem to see everything in terms of being right or wrong, accusations, proofs, defenses; my message is clear and written. I do not live under that standards, nobody is completely right nor wrong, except in very few cases that are sure inexcusable (in the wrong side).

Patience
So that is an extremely brief summation that missed a heck of a lot of information... At the point where you set your "trap," there was a call for information from academia on neanderthals. Instead of going along with the spirit of the thread, you acted like you were innocently adding something to the discussion (which as we have already said was irrelevant to the discussion) when really you were waiting for a certain reaction. Since you were not actually trying to add information to the thread but instead where waiting for a certain reaction, you were acting manipulatively. Then when you get your own thread you are more or less refusing to discuss Kerner. You are acting like a child who says, "If I can't have what I want on MY terms, then I don't want it at all." It is basically the "Now I am going to go eat worms and die" routine.

I will answer as a sign of respect, in my culture is so.

I understand what you say and what Laura wanted to do. If we play with "what if's", well what if, instead of removing my posts I were told the following:

"Please let me complete my presentation and then you can make your commentaries or objections", it is what I would have liked to receive, maybe a cultural difference.

There was no "trap" on my side, only in your mind.

Excuse me if I didn't get in time the spirit of the thread.

I didn't want a thread on my own, if I would, I would post it myself, I already said this to Laura in the original thread.

You are acting like a child who says, "If I can't have what I want on MY terms, then I don't want it at all." It is basically the "Now I am going to go eat worms and die" routine.

As a psychological assessment it is indeed creative, sadly it has nothing to do with my real intentions and motivations.

Patience
So... Are you going to pack up your toys and go home? Or are you going to learn something?

I have already answered this. Learning is a bidireccional process, there is no good in holding such a stance.
 
rofo6850 said:
I am not saying violence is privative of Caucasians, what I am saying is that for some reason, aryans managed to develop a sophisticated intelect and tools to manipulate and control materiality, what indeed astronomically multiplicated their reach and the danger for others.

And, as the genetics studies show, caucasians - Europeans, to be precise - are the only modern type humans to have mixed with Neanderthal. That should give us pause to think.


rofo6850 said:
This creativity, undeniable, as everything in this world, is a two edged sword. This is something very important that should not be overlooked. Ironically, there was a boost in CroMagnon intellect, but only there, it doesn't seem to be extensive to other areas, human nature still remains untouched.

That's exactly the point. The question is, what is "human nature" really? Are we talking about man as an animal, his animal nature, or are we talking about his truly human nature: his ability to think symbolically and use symbols and language and whatever may lie behind that?

If we are talking about the former, then we are talking about the evidential Neanderthal nature. If we are talking about the latter, then we don't have much of a clue as to what we are talking about since all of the experts are at a loss to explain the shift.

rofo6850 said:
I have read extensively your essays. I have understood you endorse a kind of idyllic scenery where all that is good and evoluted came from the north, from the purported Hiperboreans. You opposes clearly all aryans groups to a similarly purported evilness coming from Middle East, from other ratial groups, specially semitic.

Actually, not that simple. As the Cs have pointed out, being "Aryan" can be either very, very good, or very, very evil and everything in between. And, since all human types are simply combinations of Aryan (read Orion) genetics, there's not that much difference.

It strikes me that you have some kind of complex about this, a chip on your shoulder, and this makes it difficult for you to really grok what I have been saying past or present. For example, I have written in a number of places that the studies show that Africans are genetically closer to Europeans than either are to Asians.

rofo6850 said:
In your model aryans came to be the promotors of evolution, nobility and values.

Not "Aryans" specifically, but peoples in the North, for the most part. And that is based on the raw evidence.

rofo6850 said:
Semitic groups carry the insane drive to insane religions that threaten the world. It is not I am defending my group, I am not of semitic origins.

Again, that is based on the evidence.

rofo6850 said:
Well, reality is a bit more complex, the threat is not only religious, the ominous killing machine that came from the Western civilization was no religious at all,

Here you are just plain wrong. It has always and ever been religious. Even in the guise of science, it is religious. It is only via religion that governments are able to control masses of people and to get them to sacrifice themselves to an ideal, to do the killing for the pathologicals.

And right there you have a clue. As William Bramley noted in The Gods of Eden, when we consider history, we can clearly see that the drive of human beings to have peace is as strong, if not stronger, than the drive to have war. But, when the issue of war is examined, one realizes that, most often, the "trigger" for war and related "inhumanity to man" is that the drive for spiritual freedom is twisted by manipulation. It's easy to look back on history and see where this or that group was "misled" in their beliefs and thereby fell into errors of thinking that led to the perpetration of unspeakable horrors. We can point to the genocide advocated by the God of the Hebrews, or the religious-zeal-run-amok of the Catholic church when it instituted the Inquisition. We can see the twisted version of the "genetic superman" that led to the holocaust. But in the end, it is normal, decent people being manipulated by pathologicals, and the hot-spot of that pathology is evidently in Eastern Africa as demonstrated graphically in the book "Saharasia."

Human beings of the "higher sort", whether white, black, red or yellow, have a sort of "built in drive" for spiritual knowledge. And over and over again we can see that this drive is what is being manipulated and their external appearances are highlighted instead of psychological differences which are much harder to see.

When genuine spiritual knowledge is distorted while, at the same time, the inner desire for "salvation" is constantly being stimulated by various religious teachings, a great many people can be led into doing a lot of cruel and stupid things. The perceived need to "save souls" is a prime example of how such a seeming positive polarization can be suddenly shifted to do the exact opposite of what the religious teachings explicate. And this is an important point to remember!

A problem is defined in terms of two categories: objects and operations. The objects are the things that the problem-solver has to manipulate. They may be people, things, or situations. The operations are the steps by which object A is transformed into object B. Solving a problem is a process of understanding the sequence of transformation. To do this, we try to understand the differences between object A and objective B. These understandings lead us to the choice of operations. Those operations which will add to the transformation process will be retained, those which will diminish the process will be eliminated.

I believe that we can come to some understanding of our "reality problem" in this way. With a broad historical perspective, careful examination of the cycles and events within the cycles, we can SEE the fingerprints of these elusive "controllers" of our reality - pathological hybrids. We can see ordinary human beings as the "objects," and the events of history as the "operations." When we observe these things, the events of history and how they have affected humanity, and where humanity is today as opposed to "yesterday," we begin to have a clue that we certainly are "not in Kansas anymore!"

What is even more interesting is that we come across some of those very strange periods in history where a great darkness descends and before this darkness mankind was going in one direction, and after this period, he is going in an altogether different direction. You probe into these periods, and you discover that very strange things were going on, pathology was rampant, and these are periods where psychopaths easily rise to the top. Not only that, you discover that a seemingly concerted effort was made afterward to assure that documentation of the period was destroyed to as great an extent as possible. In other words, pathology was active on a global scale, and what they did, they definitely did not want it made public! Two of these periods, within the historical period, really stand out. The first is the time in which the "national history" of the Jews was supposedly in full development. The second is the period of the transition from paganism to Christianity. Both of these periods are called "Dark Ages." Maybe that should give us pause! The idea that ordinary human beings are being manipulated and controlled by pathologicals then becomes something we can see ourselves if we exert the effort and care to LOOK.

The point of all this is that it seems that the only criteria we may have by which to judge any phenomenon is the fruit it bears, since it is possible for things to be represented as positive and not be so, in fact. But in this case, the "fruit" can only be seen in a very broad historical perspective.

For a very long time, Europe was quiet and withdrawn - the Celts and other "Barbarians" wanted nothing to do with the rest of the world. It was the last bastion of the hunter-gatherer existence in the West. The agricultural revolution was thousands of years old before it finally overtook Europe. Even after that, the pathology spread only slowly. Europeans resisted all incursions until Caesar and his gang - with their intimations of immortality/superiority - came to export democracy to the Gauls, Celts and Britons. (and others). After that, things went downhill fast.

It just so happens that psychopathy is said to exist in any general population at exactly the same proportion as Neanderthal genetics are said to exist in same. Obviously, a Neanderthal/modern human type of psychopathy is not the only one that can - or does - exist. But I think we can agree that the results are very, very bad for the rest of the world.
 
rofo6850 said:
Patience

Two facts to consider:

1) The abduction phenomena seems to restrict to aryan groups, something admitted by Laura herself http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=16669.15

2) Nearly all the genocides and butchery's can be traced to show an aryan perpetrator, at least in the known history (including what you say about indigenous Europeans and Romans)

How can you possibly invert this facts?.

My gosh... You talk like we have not thought of this stuff before or something. For someone who has claimed to have read a great deal of Laura's work to not be able to sort some of this out for his or herself is highly indicative to me. It is indicative of the issues that are addressed by rigorous internal work. And not just any kind of work... But the kind that produces results...

(1) If you decide to consider the possiblity that a significant percentage of abduction phenomenon has a hyper-dimensional, even paranormal, aspect to it as Laura, Jacques Vallee, et John Keel hypothesize and is not simply a nuts-n-bolts aliens-in-spaceships-from-another-planet-doing-weird-experiments type of thing , then similarities between abduction phenomenon and other paranormal phenomenon emerge. In short, the phenomenon morphs with respect to the culture it is interacting with. A quick poke around google and wikipedia gives us

h_t_t_p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duende_%28mythology%29

where we see references to fairy mythologies in Europe, The Phillipines, Japan, Some Southern Pacific Islands, Central America, the North American Southwest, Belize, and in some African-Caribbean cultures. This is hardly a solid argument, but by considering the hyper-dimensional aspect of these phenomenon and the works of those who have researched it, I can make an argument in less than 5 minutes that it is an international phenomenon.

(2) Yes. It is clear. White people have done and are still doing a lot of horrible stuff. We want to know why and how to stop it instead of this constant cycle of revolutions that become the next bad boss.

Again, it seems your basic argument is against using psychopathy to explain all of this. Again... In PP, the mechanism of how psychopaths get regular people to sign onto awful things is well explained. It is even explained why regular humans find it so hard to digest the idea of a sub-section of humanity having fundamentally motivational factors and preying thus on the rest of us. Until you can refute the really solid arguments in that book, you can not convince us that psychopathy is not a primary driving factor in the landscape of the modern world.

As for us making the information accessible to you, well... That is the pickle. It is currently an extremely obscure subject, filled to the brim with misinformation and innately disturbing to humans on top of that. But really... Until you read PP, I suggest wasting no more time on this forum trying to discuss psychopathy. We hope to make this information more accessible and digestible, but until then, the only way is to go to the source.

Now as to why the armies of the controllers have so often been of European descent... That is an interesting question. As Laura says... Why??? This does not however invalidate our hypothesis regarding psychopathy. These case studies strengthen it in fact.
 
rofo6850 said:
Sure you know of Stanley Milgram's experiment. There you can find the chilling truth about human nature, it is clearly exposed that the ruthlessness required by a Nazi officer to pour Zyklon-B gas into a gas chamber is actually present in many ordinary people normally regarded by themselves and others as decent human beings, it is terrifying to check you do not have to be a sadistic or deranged to put people into gas chambers. You just have to be human.

Psychopathy is not enough to explain this state of affairs, the problem lies in human nature and is displayed everytime, by everyone and everywhere. For some reasons normal people, not psychopats, are always drawn in this process and end being unconscious perpetrators.

While denouncing psychopathic leaders we sustain, each of one, this state of affairs.

No, psychopathy is not enough to explain it. The other part of the equation is that all of humanity is asleep. If you are familiar with Laura's writings, you should be at least somewhat acquainted with G. I. Gurdjieff and principles of the Fourth Way. Gurdjieff talks about the very problem you brought up. Just one example, from In Search of the Miraculous:

Gurdjieff said:
People are machines. Machines have to be blind and unconscious, they cannot be otherwise, and all their actions have to correspond to their nature. Everything happens. No one does anything. 'Progress' and 'civilization,' in the real meaning of these words, can appear only as the result of conscious efforts. They cannot appear as the result of unconscious mechanical actions. And what conscious effort can there be in machines? And if one machine is unconscious, then a hundred machines are unconscious, and so are a thousand machines, or a hundred thousand, or a million. And the unconscious activity of a million machines must necessarily result in destruction and extermination. It is precisely in unconscious involuntary manifestations that all evil lies. You do not yet understand and cannot imagine all the results of this evil. But the time will come when you will understand.

Struggling to awaken from this sleep is a huge part of the work we do in this forum. We are all asleep to some degree, and we all act as unconscious machines. We lie to ourselves all the time about what we're doing, thinking, and feeling, as well as what motivates us. Nobody's exempt from this - not even you. And sometimes it takes another person to act as our "mirror" and show us what we're really doing.

rofo6850 said:
Then what should be all be doing? breathing? meditating? or getting our clothes dirty trying to help the victims and correct what is done wrong.

Why not all of the above? The breathing and meditation program can be a great help to many people. The problems of this world result from imprisoned minds and emotions, not just bodies, and the EE program can help immensely with that. But at the same time, nobody here advocates just sitting around meditating while ignoring the pain and suffering in this world. Far from it.

The thing is, psychopaths are the source of all that's wrong in our world. We can help victims, but how to break the cycle so there ARE no more victims? We can't exactly remove the psychopaths directly, but we CAN attack the "sleeping humanity" part of the equation - by helping ourselves, each other and hopefully many more people to wake up.

You may think others here are attacking you, but they're not. They're only trying to expose certain false parts of you. And they're doing it out of concern for the REAL YOU - who is someone that you may not even know yet. Sure, some wrong guesses and mistakes can be made on our part. But it's also possible that some things are being seen in you that you are unable to see in yourself. Can you admit this possibility? This is why a network is important. We cannot see ourselves clearly enough to make it alone.
 
Laura said:
That's exactly the point. The question is, what is "human nature" really? Are we talking about man as an animal, his animal nature, or are we talking about his truly human nature: his ability to think symbolically and use symbols and language and whatever may lie behind that?

If we are talking about the former, then we are talking about the evidential Neanderthal nature. If we are talking about the latter, then we don't have much of a clue as to what we are talking about since all of the experts are at a loss to explain the shift.

Wow... This has me asking the question (without any answers whatsoever), what is the relationship between Lobachevski's human instinctive substratum, where he places the origin of basic human values AND a difficulty in understanding psychopathy, and the human natures discussed above?
 
Laura said:

Here you are just plain wrong. It has always and ever been religious. Even in the guise of science, it is religious. It is only via religion that governments are able to control masses of people and to get them to sacrifice themselves to an ideal, to do the killing for the pathologicals.

Well, here we disagree, religion is the excuse, but the true motto behind this is plain materialism and ambition. The real predators of mankind are not religious at all, they use religion every time it is suitable to them. Ambition and material needs are excelent means of manipulation and control. Religion is not the only one, there are even more, connected to the process of identification there is racism, ethno-centered phylosophies and everything which exploits the sense of internal union. In fact, many wars are fought under this premises, us vs them, they are bad, dark skinned, evil, they are not like us.

Zionism and Western powers, economical, political and military have no religion at all. It is precisely Western's who have showed a degree of racism and paranoid consideration of another cultures and different people that is difficult to find a parallel in history.

There is a true religion, without it we are doomed. The Gnostic Gospel of Thomas came from somewhere in the East, maybe a semitic people, maybe not, but is not Western thinking.

The rest I agree.

Patience
As for us making the information accessible to you, well... That is the pickle. It is currently an extremely obscure subject, filled to the brim with misinformation and innately disturbing to humans on top of that. But really... Until you read PP, I suggest wasting no more time on this forum trying to discuss psychopathy. We hope to make this information more accessible and digestible, but until then, the only way is to go to the source.

I have read PP, my friend. It would be wise if you come down from your heights, many people could understand and read PP and maybe take better conclusions. The fact is that nobody knows a little about psychopathy simply because evil is a pretty unknown matter, there are no rational explanations.

May I suggest you an excellent book on this topic?, read Scott Peck's "People of the Lie", in case you didn't yet. And take note of the confession of the author regarding this issue, a true expert.

It is not the case others do not have the knowledge or access to the sources, what seems to escape from your mind is that people have different cosmovisions and ethics, that's why there are differente interpretations of the same source. This is diversity and if you travel around the world and meet different cultures you would be astonished as to the degree of variability in ethics and mentality.
 
rofo6850 said:
Laura said:

Here you are just plain wrong. It has always and ever been religious. Even in the guise of science, it is religious. It is only via religion that governments are able to control masses of people and to get them to sacrifice themselves to an ideal, to do the killing for the pathologicals.

Well, here we disagree, religion is the excuse, but the true motto behind this is plain materialism and ambition. The real predators of mankind are not religious at all, they use religion every time it is suitable to them. Ambition and material needs are excelent means of manipulation and control. Religion is not the only one, there are even more, connected to the process of identification there is racism, ethno-centered phylosophies and everything which exploits the sense of internal union. In fact, many wars are fought under this premises, us vs them, they are bad, dark skinned, evil, they are not like us.
Careful, you are dangerously close to agreeing with Laura here. She did not say that the controllers were religious, but that they use religion. Pretty much what you said as well.

If I understand her correctly when she included science in the guise of religion, then I think she meant that the use of religion is a way to hook people into belief systems (whatever the form) which then keeps them from seeing reality. This makes it so much easier to manipulate them.
 
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