Only in North Carolina

[Laura]

I get it, sometimes the way I express my honest feelings is snarky. The next time I decide to ignore someone I'll just do it instead of telling them. :)

Yes, but it is also okay to state what you think/feel clearly if the situation warrants. Just remember, if we aren't dealing with a clearly identified "path", we are all on the same team and sniping at each other is not very productive. I think Al felt pretty awful and, because of cultural conditioning, didn't really think about the video as some more sensitive people would. That's where we have to help each other, to teach each other what is really normal and what isn't because, for god's sake, the whole world is so twisted it's mostly been buried and we've all been cheated out of our natural emotions - especially men.

 

[Guardian]

Yes, but it is also okay to state what you think/feel clearly if the situation warrants. Just remember, if we aren't dealing with a clearly identified "path", we are all on the same team and sniping at each other is not very productive. I think Al felt pretty awful and, because of cultural conditioning, didn't really think about the video as some more sensitive people would. That's where we have to help each other, to teach each other what is really normal and what isn't because, for god's sake, the whole world is so twisted it's mostly been buried and we've all been cheated out of our natural emotions - especially men.

I think I hear ya, basically I need to try to have as much compassion for the men as I do for the fish, which is VERY difficult because the fish have never hurt me.

 

[Laura]

I think I hear ya, basically I need to try to have as much compassion for the men as I do for the fish, which is VERY difficult because the fish have never hurt me.

I think Al is very deserving of compassion; he's done a lot of work on himself and come a loooong way!

So have we all.

 

[Guardian]

I think Al is very deserving of compassion; he's done a lot of work on himself and come a loooong way!

I agree, and I'm sorry I didn't catch that he was trying to apologize right away. I was getting more of a "that's just how it is" type thing. I will be the first to admit, I am NOT good at "subtle" ...especially on the Internet. Without voice tone and body language, communication can be VERY difficult.

 

[Al Today]

I will be the first to admit, I am NOT good at "subtle" ...especially on the Internet. Without voice tone and body language, communication can be VERY difficult.

Yep, reading between the lines is difficult for some, like me. And I gave some blurred, fuzzy lines of programmed responses to you Guardian. I did learn something about myself though.

I agree that this is hard communicating anonymously, not face to face. But I also think this has us think more about the written words. And this communication is a 2 way street, coming in and going out, This has been my dilemma, getting out what I mean, not what I say. And understanding what was meant and not what I think I read.

 

[Buddy]

Catching up with this thread, I was struck with the realization that if this thread were an individual, it'd be a very good example of how very different the world looks from the perspective of the left hemisphere and from the perspective of the right hemisphere.

What I see in this thread is programs running pretty much all around with no one even trying to reign them in. Responses have been emotional, rude, aggressive and hard headed - none of which is something that I'd expect from people sincerely engaged in the Work. It is a good opportunity to observe programs, however.

Yeah, strike "realization" and replace with "idea" and the meaning would be closer to what I felt.

Actually, I was afraid my post might appear 'over the top' to some. But if I were to rewrite it, toning it down a bit, turning the language center back on but staying positioned mostly on the right side, folks in general might get a feel for what it's like for some to be AD/HD in this world and have to put up with unnecessary emotional pain in so many different ways and from so many different sources.

FWIW, some of us can partly anesthetize, some can mostly anesthetize temporarily and some cannot shut down at all. Of course, the sad thing is, not a single person should ever have to. But that's society's coercion-based conditioning for ya.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I think I hear ya, basically I need to try to have as much compassion for the men as I do for the fish, which is VERY difficult because the fish have never hurt me.

What if an animal (shark, piranha, etc) attacked you? An animal simply does what it is programmed by nature to do. People also do what they are programmed, whether by nature (in the case of psychopaths) or culture (for everyone else). So while we should be angry at things that justify it, it helps to remember that people are machines and often have no real "choice" about what they do any more than a tiger "chooses" to bite. That should at least help channel your anger away from the "person" and towards the environment that, as Laura mentioned, represses our emotional expression, and programs us into very destructive thoughts, words, and behaviors.

Then at the highest level there is the conscious evil - unlike the psychopaths, it has a choice, and unlike the rest of humanity, it isn't conditioned to do what it does - it chooses it. It's even more difficult not to feel angry at a creature that consciously exploits/harms others for its own benefit. But I realized that it makes no sense to be angry at someone's way of being - whether it is chosen, programmed by nature, or programmed by conditioning. But I am angry for those who are exploited/harmed/consumed either because of their own ignorance or the ignorance of those doing the harm. It's not so "bad" when both parties agreed to tango, like in a conscious STS hierarchy.

In the case of the fish - the men could've known better, and if it wasn't for the pathocracy, they would've. If they are psychopaths then it's a moot point. But if they're not, then they didn't do this with conscious realization of the suffering they are inflicting on another creature, they are too caught in their programmed "bubble", their emotional center is seriously compromised, and empathy selectively deactivated. If you keep this in mind, it should at least help channel your anger to the appropriate source, and into appropriate words/actions, aimed at the root of the problem, which is our ignorance and mechanicalness, which allows the pathocracy to exist and to use us for its own purposes, and against one another.

 

[Guardian]

I agree that this is hard communicating anonymously, not face to face.

Oh gawd yes!! You can't feel the people you're talking to...at least I can't unless I know them in meatspace.

But I also think this has us think more about the written words.

I can sit here and think about what I want to write until the cows come home, and people will still get something other than what I intended if I try to be "subtle"

And this communication is a 2 way street, coming in and going out, This has been my dilemma, getting out what I mean, not what I say. And understanding what was meant and not what I think I read.

I hear you, I have the same problem. When I just say what I'm thinking, people get offended, and when I try to express myself in some kind of round about, more socially acceptable fashion, folks get something COMPLETELY different from what I intended...then I spend three days explaining that. At least when I offend someone, I can be fairly sure they understood what I really meant.

Laura's right though, I was thinking about what the fish were feeling, not what you were feeling, when I should have been trying to do both.

 

[Guardian]

What if an animal (shark, piranha, etc) attacked you? An animal simply does what it is programmed by nature to do. People also do what they are programmed, whether by nature (in the case of psychopaths) or culture (for everyone else). So while we should be angry at things that justify it, it helps to remember that people are machines and often have no real "choice" about what they do any more than a tiger "chooses" to bite. That should at least help channel your anger away from the "person" and towards the environment that, as Laura mentioned, represses our emotional expression, and programs us into very destructive thoughts, words, and behaviors.

Yeah, I get it, and I do need to work on that, most especially since the environment doesn't seem to have repressed my emotional expression as much as it has some folks'... in fact I can be trying to repress them myself, and that doesn't usually work out too well.

 

[shellycheval]

Wow--powerful thread--thanks to all for sharing.

Guardian

I do need to work on that, most especially since the environment doesn't seem to have repressed my emotional expression as much as it has some folks'... in fact I can be trying to repress them myself, and that doesn't usually work out too well.

Again I think it is like what Laura said earlier, it is not about repressing or not having your feelings/anger, it is about knowing how to manage them. Aristotle wrote:

"Anyone can become angry. That is easy. But to be angry with the right person to the right degree, at the right time for the right purpose, and in the right way: this is not easy."
From Aristotle's Golden Mean in Book Two of Nicomachean Ethics

Like SAO said

So while we should be angry at things that justify it, it helps to remember that people are machines and often have no real "choice" about what they do any more than a tiger "chooses" to bite.

In the Prayer of the Soul we ask "Help me grow in knowledge of all creation . . ." I have come to accept that this means learning about the negative as much or more than the positive, because it is easier to have already seen the positive most of the time. And a big negative is that most people are cruel and inflict pain on other entities because of the machine behaviors they have learned--they are pitifully bereft of empathy and higher emotions. They are like the toad I saw yesterday mechanically eating a katydid alive while it kicked and struggled to get away. They either are psychopaths or in the majority of sick, broken humans who will likely remain at the bottom of the steps of spiritual evolution for millennia, if not all creation.

Seeing the horror of so much of this behavior in the world can, I think, can create overwhelming prolonged feelings of fear and despair in us and/or knee-jerk reactions of blind rage. Neither of which are useful to our own spiritual growth. Seeing the big picture that such partial humans hold a place in creation even if I cannot understand what or why that might be, helps me move on and to channel my appropriate rage and anger into the best actions I can take to “change the things I can.”

My deepest desire to hate comes from knowing others (usually men, but not always) are torturing children and animals.
It is painful to acknowledge how much of this exists and even more painful to accept that I cannot challenge, or stop most of it. I can hate that it exist but I cannot let that anger eat me up or color my daily life with rage red. When I am made aware of it in my own sphere of influence, I take appropriate action by contacting the right authorities and following up later to make sure something has been done, or rarely, if need be, directly intervening in as cool, rational a manner as I can command. What I can't change, I acknowledge the feelings I have about the situation and then resort to the "Serenity Prayer." It is never easy.

shellycheval