Organic Portals: Human variation

[Expedition26]

This might be a question for the C’s, I’m not sure if it has been discussed, but I’ve been pondering this question. Do OPs face karmic retribution during their time here like souled beings do? Or does it just accumulate until they have a seated soul and then their past wrongdoings hit them?

I am really starting to think, especially about the people I personally know and believe to be OPs, that karma doesn’t come for them in the same way it does for the souled. They may have bad things happen to them but it either doesn’t phase them or they blame everyone else for their situation.

Maybe I’m totally off base but it does seem like karma swerves people that think in pictures.

 

[Ant22]

Do OPs face karmic retribution during their time here like souled beings do? Or does it just accumulate until they have a seated soul and then their past wrongdoings hit them?

Karmic retribution isn’t something that’s limited to one lifetime. Karmic debt is carried over from one lifetime to the next and given that OPs don’t have an individualised soul, they don’t experience multiple lifetimes like souled individuals do. So the way I see it is that if they do have the ability to acquire karmic debt it would affect the soul pool they came from rather than a specific individual. That individual “ceases to exist” (for lack of a better phrase) shortly after death and their soul goes back to the soul pool.

And as for the soul pool acquiring karmic debt, I may be wrong but I don’t think it would happen the same way as for souled individuals - if at all. OPs consciousness level and their ability to truly choose are much more limited, and I’d say the universe would “judge” them based on their own ability level. So different rules and levels of responsibility would apply to them.

 

[Wandering Star]

Do OPs face karmic retribution during their time here like souled beings do? Or does it just accumulate until they have a seated soul and then their past wrongdoings hit them?

If, as has been commented in this thread, it is a collective soul and what an individual learns is immediately learned by the collective, such as animal families (gender).

So Karma as the learning tool that it is will be experienced by the individual and shared by the OP family.

My opinion on this.

 

[Wandering Star]

And I would like to add to the above that karmic repercussions are interpreted differently, depending on the individual and their spiritual level.

When faced with karmic compensation, many interpret it as a poor me (How unfortunate I am!) and then do it again.

Or they try it in various variations trying to get their way.

I believe that Karma works independently and then the individual (OP or not) takes advantage of the lesson according to their level.

 

[msasa79]

And I would like to add to the above that karmic repercussions are interpreted differently, depending on the individual and their spiritual level.

When faced with karmic compensation, many interpret it as a poor me (How unfortunate I am!) and then do it again.

Or they try it in various variations trying to get their way.

I believe that Karma works independently and then the individual (OP or not) takes advantage of the lesson according to their level.

If an OP does not have individuated soul, but its spirit or soul imprint returns to sort of a soul pool after its physical death (soul pool of its species for example like spirit or general soul imprint of cats or dogs), what exactly is there to "repay" the individual karmic debt acquired in a particular OP's physical lifetime?

Going half level down, to 2D beings for example, does a newly born rabbit somewhere has to "repay" that mother rabbit somewhere else ate its ofsprings because it sensed strange scent on them?
Back to bridge between 2D and 3D, what kind of karma is there for an OP to deal with when born without any "memory" of previous lifetimes? Does this person have to deal with all "karmic debts" of all OPs before her, just a specific part of their "overall karma", or only one particular lesson that for example someone of her ancestors acquired?

I think that there in the story enter souled 3D humans on the stage, having in part the responsibility to sort of "guide" OPs, and all other organic life on the planet, not necessarily by dealing with their respective individual karmic debts, as there would be none in case of the OP, the same as for 2D beings, but by sort of transducing finer energies (in)to the soul pools or overall spirits, "improving" the spirit/energies of the planet Earth.

 

[Ricardo]

At 2d level there's no individuation , having been called exterior beings by the tradition , my consideration regarding karma ( which for now , i'll use the definition of , all things are delicately connected ) for " them " remains in the same area , something un-specified and nebulous , much the same way when a 3d level being deals with an OP , their reflection back at 3rd beings is always a generality , a non-specific reaction, a limited and repetitive program , always context dependent but nothing more . As such their karma , if there is to be considered such , would be mostly in the same realm , outside of their purview , for absence of direct choice . Also , this applies to potentially souled beings that are not , for lack of better wording , exercising their individuality as 3rd level beings by , ehm , place . my 2x cents .

 

[Expedition26]

Back to bridge between 2D and 3D, what kind of karma is there for an OP to deal with when born without any "memory" of previous lifetimes? Does this person have to deal with all "karmic debts" of all OPs before her, just a specific part of their "overall karma", or only one particular lesson that for example someone of her ancestors acquired?

I was meaning more like karma accrued in this lifetime. For instance, an OP does a bunch of heinous things. Would they then face any of that karma in their lifetime? Or does it just bypass them? Or does karma not apply to them at all? Or do all of the OPs pay for some of that suffering if they gain a soul?

 

[Ricardo]

fwiw , different rules apply , you're considering something that exists as a group (ops ) and applying it to individual(s) , density as per C's definition ( et all ) , is a "reflection" of consciousness to / with all , to put it in a VERY LIMITED description , 1st density is within 2nd density , 2nd density is within 3rd , while the Law is one , there are different lessons at each step , and they are all concomitant with "previous" learned lessons , retroactively applying free will choices from a 3rd density awareness/ perspective and framing leads nowhere , because there would be no adequate framing but lessons learned from transitioning ( 2nd to 3rd ) thus no simplification or generalized karmic description because at 3rd level individuation is ... prime (?) . imo / blah

 

[msasa79]

I was meaning more like karma accrued in this lifetime. For instance, an OP does a bunch of heinous things. Would they then face any of that karma in their lifetime? Or does it just bypass them? Or does karma not apply to them at all? Or do all of the OPs pay for some of that suffering if they gain a soul?

Well, my understanding of the subject is that there is no karma as such for non-individuated soul beings.

For example psychopaths, as broken OPs according to the C's, might be regarded as beings that do things by their more or less animalistic instincts and probably also nudged by 4D entities. If only those things governed by their animalistic instincts were to be concerned, are the psychos any different from usual members of purely animal kingdom? In that sense, is there any karma for a cat that plays cruelly from our perspective with a half-dead mouse or a lizard before leaving it to die suffering after being bored playing with it? As for the bad deeds "motivated" and "instructed" to do so by STS 4D (and maybe even 3D) beings, are the psychos really responsible for those actions, or the responsibility lies on those "managing" them?

If soul imprints of OPs "dissolve" back in their soul pool upon their physical deaths, is there any real karma as such, as individual lessons to deal with, to talk about? Me thinks not, the same as in case of ordinary animals or plants or any other non-individuated soul being.

 

[Ricardo]

I was meaning more like karma accrued in this lifetime. For instance, an OP does a bunch of heinous things. Would they then face any of that karma in their lifetime? Or does it just bypass them? Or does karma not apply to them at all? Or do all of the OPs pay for some of that suffering if they gain a soul?

fwiw , karma applies and it doesn't , no one gains a soul .

Session 28 December 1996 :

(...)

A: No. The soul was never created. Was/Is/Always will be.

(...)

--------------------------------------

Session 25 February 1995 :

(...)

A: Soul is consciousness, period.

(...)

 

[Rhys]

Well, my understanding of the subject is that there is no karma as such for non-individuated soul beings.

This makes sense. If a soul/consciousness hasn’t reached the capacity to make conscious choices, or have a true moral awareness, what use is karma? (At least in the way we understand it).

It’s difficult though! They are a bridge between 2D and 3D, so they’re right on the threshold of making real choices and going through “karmic understandings”. I picture them as being like information gatherers for their soul pool and would use that to develop 3D-like “instincts” ready for full integration into 3rd density?

 

[axj]

If a soul/consciousness hasn’t reached the capacity to make conscious choices, or have a true moral awareness, what use is karma?

That's how I understand it too. Though OP's are kind of in the 'grey area' of being in the process of individuating a soul, whereas animals or plants are not (though according to some sources, pets can go through a process similar to soul individuation).

Maybe group souls do have 'collective karma' to a certain extent, depending on how much free will individual OP's of that group soul attain. Maybe some group souls are closer to individuation than other group souls.

 

[axj]

A relevant quote from the Law of One:

19.15
Ra: I am Ra. [...]

The second-density concept of serving self includes the serving of those associated with tribe or pack. This is not seen in second density as separation of self and other-self. All is seen as self since in some forms of second-density entities, if the tribe or pack becomes weakened, so does the entity within the tribe or pack.

The new or initial third-density entity has this innocent, shall we say, bias or distortion towards viewing those in the family, the society, as you would call, perhaps, country, as self. Thus though a distortion not helpful for progress in third density, it is without polarity.

The break becomes apparent when the entity perceives other-selves as other-selves and consciously determines to manipulate other-selves for the benefit of the self.

 

[Ricardo]

fwiw , karma applies and it doesn't , no one gains a soul .

Session 28 December 1996 :

(...)

A: No. The soul was never created. Was/Is/Always will be.

(...)

--------------------------------------

Session 25 February 1995 :

(...)

A: Soul is consciousness, period.

(...)

Elaborating a bit on how it and doesn't , 1st density , as we perceive it , for example rocks and water , are both submitted to whatever whims we as 3rd density act on them , build houses build bridges , dams , or drink waters (...) , 1st density is simplest cosmic representation of consciousness ( in simple terms) , and further there's the free will principle that applies at any density , so 2nd density despite being exponentially "different " from first density "still have " free will as well , but it exists alongside 3rd , and 3rd has a wider range of action then 2nd , so this puts in a more or less reactive zone , difference with 1st , is that , it as consciousness has a wider range of expression with its own set of laws. ( fwiw /blah)