'Our childhood is killed in Iraq. It is killed'

[anart]

I cried all the way through this article. There are days when the pain we americans inflict on those most innocent makes me want to die - of sorrow, shame and anger at those we've placed in power. What monsters we are, to unleash all this on the world. What monsters we are, each of us, who sit each day and live our lives as if nothing is 'wrong' or as if there is 'nothing we can do to change anything' - even if, in fact, there may be nothing we can do. Monsters by circumstance, but monsters nonetheless. Apologies for the dark tone, but there simply are some days when the lightness in tone cannot be found through all the pain and tears.

 

[Ben]

If it makes you feel any better, we're just as bad (British)

Actually that doesn't make us feel any better......

 

[Magus]

In this time, when the Evil looming over us all seems so utterly overwhleming, two ideas would I share with this Forum Family tonight. Of the first, I am sure, and the second is held as a personal Truth, one which has been proven time and again by experiences and observtion.

1) Those like yourself, Anart, (a Lady of Truth whose words and wisdom an old Magus has come to treasure much as he whiles away his few spare hours of a week in embracing and reading the thoughts of the many wonderful Minds here), those who Seek, Find, Live by, Tell and then Uphold and Defend the Truth, and most of all those do the Work and who give to the Lies and Liars the Truths which they demand, are NOT the monsters, TRUTH SEEKERS AND TELLERS ARE THE ANTI-MONSTERS, Humanity's Hopes and Helpers.

Hold your head up, Lady of Truth, and all of you noble Upholders of Truth like unto Good Lady Anart. Yours is not the deserved guilt of the Evildoers.You are being hounded by the Psychophages' Projection of their own Manifest Guilt upon you.

'Tis a manipulation, a powerful Deceit, and well maintained by a media and press endlessly and skillfully labouring to vanish and banish all knowledge and awareness, even your own, of how very much there is of merit and strength in your opposition to them. They strive to rob you of your own ceaseless efforts to expose and end their Lies and Evildoings, and likewise of all knowledge and awareness of how much real effect those efforts are having. Forget you not the butterfly's wings in this dire time. The Pathocrats are trying to convince you that you dare not to accuse and convict them of their own crimes because you are co-responsible for them. It is a Lie.

Never have those who dare to Seek, Know, Treasure, Live by and Defend Truth, those who Work and Seek for Peace, been guilty of psychophagic foulness, and always, ever, shall you be their direst threat, fear and True Opponents. Be not Deceived by their projections.

'Tis not you but they who have loosed the killing machines of armies and armadas and Evils of all kinds, to satisfy their lusts for gain, power, pain and blood, always. And always have they proclaimed that their own savagery is but that which belongs to and resides within all Humankind. 'Tis one of their oldest, foulest, biggest Lies. See it and Know it for what it is.

2) The True cause of your profound sense of remourse, which those of an empathic nature will feel when Pathocratic Evils are set loose upon this Earth, is at being unable to personally hold, succor and heal all the harms and ills your Sacred Empathy cannot avoid sharing with all those innocents who suffer and know terror. We would do so if we could, and when we cannot, it hurts almost madddeningly. However, when we cannot help but Hear and Feel their suffering as though it were our own, dire as the pain of it is, helpless though it makes us feel, we might also give Thanks for this, even in our bitterest weeping, for it proves the mettle of our very souls. We can indeed Know that we have do them, Truly, when they break, ache, weep and overflow with and from others' pains and not our own.

Be of one thing certain, Good Lady Anart, and all in this Forum Family who weep like and with her for the sufferings of innocents everywhere. The hearts to bow lowest and hurt deepest, in this Evil Time, will be those wherein Truth and Soul are growing so as to approach that weeping and bleeding for and with the sufferings of all Earthly Life that all who would tread the Ascendant Spiral must surely do before they shall ever climb to the higher rounds of the Journey.

With Gratitude to All Here,
Magus

 

[Mr. Premise]

I totally agree. I always get mad when people say things like, "we are all responsible for these atrocities because we didn't do more to prevent them." When everyone is responsible, no one is.

The people who are responsible are those who made the decision to do these things from Bush on down to the grunt in the military who surrendered his or her free will to the pathocrats.

Hold your head up, Lady of Truth, and all of you noble Upholders of Truth like unto Good Lady Anart. Yours is not the deserved guilt of the Evildoers.You are being hounded by the Psychophages' Projection of their own Manifest Guilt upon you.

'Tis a manipulation, a powerful Deceit, and well maintained by a media and press endlessly and skillfully labouring to vanish and banish all knowledge and awareness, even your own, of how very much there is of merit and strength in your opposition to them. They strive to rob you of your own ceaseless efforts to expose and end their Lies and Evildoings, and likewise of all knowledge and awareness of how much real effect those efforts are having. Forget you not the butterfly's wings in this dire time. The Pathocrats are trying to convince you that you dare not to accuse and convict them of their own crimes because you are co-responsible for them. It is a Lie.


'Tis not you but they who have loosed the killing machines of armies and armadas and Evils of all kinds, to satisfy their lusts for gain, power, pain and blood, always. And always have they proclaimed that their own savagery is but that which belongs to and resides within all Humankind. 'Tis one of their oldest, foulest, biggest Lies. See it and Know it for what it is.



With Gratitude to All Here,
Magus

 

[Guest]

Magus, "from you mouth to God's ear", as they say here in Greece. The truth shall set you free, and the truth is that a viper or a deadly spider cannot consume its victim unless that victim is at first immobilized. And for the psychopath and all its versions, collective and individual, paralysis is induced through confusion, guilt and fear. And knowledge liberates us from confusion, guilt and fear.

We are doing our best, and that is all we can do, and if we keep doing it change can come in unexpected ways. Ten years ago an attitude of questioning the status quo could get you institutionalized in the US. Wars and massacres were run with impunity then as now. When I arrived as a college freshmen in my dorm in Ohio, the first week I protested against CIA activities around the world. I was beat up by five strapping patriots bent on teaching me a lesson in :"America, love it or leave it", with a crowd cheering them on and booing the weird foreigner (who happened to be an American citizen).

There are still such people today, and lots of them, but they are not the majority. The majority knows the truth. The majority, IMO, is not so much force-hypnotized but self-hypnotized, because they have been taught to fear the truth and so they beg for opiates.

The majority is held under the thrall of confusion, guilt and fear. This may not be an overwhelming majority, but when I came to Ohio as a freshmen finding anyone who questioned the establishment was a needle in a haystack search, and believe me I searched far and wide. This began changing in the late 80's, but not by very much.

One thing I believe is worth notice is that the PTB are constantly now doing damage control, whereas in the past they didn't even have to bother. Another is that there is just as much mayhem now as there was 20 or 30 years ago, only now we are much more aware of it. People say Americans are asleep, but 20 or 30 years ago that slumber was so deep that there wasn't even any questioning it.

Now the sleep is troubled, and much effort is being expended by the PTB to keep wakefulness at bay. Such effort was not even necessary 20 or 30 years ago. There were stirrings in the 60's and 70's but they were squashed, and America went into unconsciousness swiftly. Now stirrings are everywhere. They are only stirrings, but putting everyone under does not work anymore.

And I wonder how many Americans are really asleep and how many are just trembling under the covers with their eyes wide shut because of guilt, fear and confusion? In the meantime, the rest of the world has endured precisely what America fears: concentration camps, totalitarianism, famine, war, torture.

Most of Europe has also been asleep under the muffle of its own traditions, still reeling from memories of chaos inflicting former generations. Yet, in their own way Europeans are also inflicted with guilt, fear and confusion. They do, however, remember the face of the enemy, even if only through the words of their grandparents, and solidarity comes easier to them because of that when that face comes into clear focus once again. And it is their nationalism that is attacked and used against them at the same time. European colonialism is the cause of Europe's current immigration problems, and children of the victims of that colonialism are pitted against the local populace while the elite still profit from it.

In all of this, the PTB feel no guilt, and their arrogance blinds them from confusion, yet all is not as right as they try to promote. Psychopaths feel fear, and use their blinding arrogance to shield themselves from it. And as it does it also forces them to move in the dark, which up to now was effective because the populations of the world were immersed in an even greater darkness and ignorance.

And so information is circulating, and they know they cannot stop its flows, because they also need the channels for their own ends. So they are spreading chaos posing as information, and that chaos translates into confusion, guilt and fear. I want to say that things ARE different, and progress HAS been made, but we cannot judge the outcome by the first phases of its beginnings, especially when the effects are non-linear.

I believe the only collapse and chaos the PTB wants is a staged collapse, controlled chaos and selected mayhem. This is not chaos, but calculated manipulation. And because of non-linear effects and the complexity of the situation that manipulation can easily shift to the unpredictable even for them. They are a minority that depend an the majority of sleepers, and are objectively in a much more precarious position than the majority that has been lulled into believing it depends on them.

I have heard the antics of the Bush regime compared to those of Hitler. It is a valid comparison, but things were far simpler then. Networking was near impossible, for one thing, and society much more entrenched in tradition in the deep rooted ancestral sense. Modern American "mainstream" traditions are parodies of what that word means to a European, an Indian or anyone else in the world.

These media-marketed traditions may be constantly promoted, but they are not deeply rooted in a people that is too diverse to represent ethnic homogeneity as in other parts of the world. The people, on the other hand, have been under a social experiment promoting radical change away from traditions for over half a century, and the PTB realized this makes the people adaptable to change, and with a deep capacity to throw off the old and move in new directions. The PTB are afraid of this and are constantly playing the traditional values vs. liberal change card, again to keep the populous mired in fear, guilt and confusion.

And because they place so much focus to keep people in that paralytic mode they must be really afraid of what will happen if people can resist fear, guilt and confusion, and God forbid they overcome them. Courage, integrity and conviction are their enemies, and these are qualities of an awakened populous. And when one among us resonates with these qualities others can vibrate to their example, an example of being that inspires doing which in itself is a process requiring deliberate cultivation and not insta-solution deus ex machina presentations.

This, IMO, is how knowledge protects and liberates, through the cultivation of objectively based courage, integrity and conviction as a state that inspires others to the same and brings one to that place of creative potential where one is finally capable to produce solutions. And solutions come then for the simple reason that one is truly and whole-heartedly ready for their synchronistic emergence. Such solutions are aligned with the flow of events, and things fall into place because they do not have to move against the Universe, but are an expression of its true creative infoldment.

Such is my honest opinion.

 

[Mr. Premise]

This goes to one of the roots of fascism. Fascism came as capitalism was reaching its peak and was considered as one of the three main political responses to the disruptions of industrial capitalism, the others being bourgeois liberalism and marxism. Since it is capitalism that dissolves all older social relations and substitutes them with pure commodity exchange of atomized "individuals", fascism's solution was to oppose this dissolving tendency with equally strong reinforcement of "traditional" relations, including imitations of older, corporate solidarities, imposed by pure state and pathocratic power. But it was all the dark side of older traditional bonds (scapegoating, racism, tribalism, the "society of orders"). This accounts for the base of support for fascist policies (around 25 - 30% in any country at any time, IMO).

Fascism actually feels warm and fuzzy on the inside. For those on the inside, emotional bonds between people are much stronger than they are in bourgeois liberal societies. A good illustration of this is the excellent film Europa, Europa, about a Jewish boy who was able to "pass" as a gentile in Nazi Germany. His big fear was being naked in the locker room or with a girl and having his circumcision revealed. But, when he was able to "pass" he was treated very warmly by everyone.

I have heard the antics of the Bush regime compared to those of Hitler. It is a valid comparison, but things were far simpler then. Networking was near impossible, for one thing, and society much more entrenched in tradition in the deep rooted ancestral sense. Modern American "mainstream" traditions are parodies of what that word means to a European, an Indian or anyone else in the world.

These media-marketed traditions may be constantly promoted, but they are not deeply rooted in a people that is too diverse to represent ethnic homogeneity as in other parts of the world. The people, on the other hand, have been under a social experiment promoting radical change away from traditions for over half a century, and the PTB realized this makes the people adaptable to change, and with a deep capacity to throw off the old and move in new directions. The PTB are afraid of this and are constantly playing the traditional values vs. liberal change card, again to keep the populous mired in fear, guilt and confusion.

 

[anart]

Thank you all for your comments on my lament - I see the truth in what you've said and it does help me deal with the pain I feel over it all.

In all of this, the PTB feel no guilt, and their arrogance blinds them from confusion, yet all is not as right as they try to promote.

I suppose in my sustained efforts to not let the course my country has taken lead me into a numb state of disregard or helplessness, (my sustained efforts to be awake and aware), I err on the side of taking things on myself that simply do not belong in my hands. Perhaps there is even an element of 'feeling sorry for myself' because I am an attached observer to all of this and I am without the capacity to filter out the pain that others feel. Perhaps I need to sit and really remember the fact that to love the Universe, I have to love and accept the dark with the light, and I have to get to a place where I consistently understand that all is as it should be in ways that I cannot grok from my point of view. This view point can be reached without walking away from empathy and a need to help those involved, and I think this idea is what slipped away from me for a while. Thank you, again, for helping me remember some important things. =)

 

[Guest]

I have to love and accept the dark with the light, and I have to get to a place where I consistently understand that all is as it should be in ways that I cannot grok from my point of view. This view point can be reached without walking away from empathy and a need to help those involved, and I think this idea is what slipped away from me for a while. Thank you, again, for helping me remember some important things.

I'm glad that a smile can still come forth given all that you, and many of us do feel. The Universe is truly vast and has many meanderings so we may ultimately reach a better state and make our now a better place. I also believe in accepting and loving dark with the light, but I cannot accept evil. Evil or entropic malevolence can play roles of both dark and light.

And good, or rather the creative life/growth potential of the Universe, also has is light and dark forms (life-affirming yin and yang). The womb is dark, and not evil, rest often occurs in the dark, and a degree of dark on a cool summer night can be wonderful. Light, on the other hand, can be cold, artificial, malevolent. Light and Dark are forms of the same totality within being, but I believe malevolent entropy is the monkey-wrench in the natural light/dark relationship, often moving from one and then the other side, often making light lash out at dark, when it is lashing out at evil, and dark lashing at light, when it lashes at evil.

And it seems that evil is swift and the opposites that are meant to be in harmony, hurt each other. And evil can lie within us and we may see its reflection in another and want to lash out, and evil makes us feel guilty because we are still ignorant or partly so of the many manipulations evil can generate, and we may at some point find evil concealing itself within us, and lash out at ourselves to escape it if we cannot destroy it. And truly we cannot destroy destruction. We can only choose life and allow destruction to meet itself, when it cannot find ground to root in us.

So I love and trust the Universe, I love light and I love dark, but I can neither love nor accept evil because evil does not want my love and acceptance. Evil wants destruction, and it will keep destroying what it encounters until it encounters itself, and finds its right place in non-existence. That is, at least, my position. May your smiles stay true.

 

[kenlee]

I totally agree. I always get mad when people say things like, "we are all responsible for these atrocities because we didn't do more to prevent them." When everyone is responsible, no one is.

The people who are responsible are those who made the decision to do these things from Bush on down to the grunt in the military who surrendered his or her free will to the pathocrats.

I found this list (below) from the website of a local radio personality. Note how the Republicans on this list are the ones that never served any active duty in the military, yet they are the war mongers who often "protesteth too much" about patriotism, liberty and the "Americarn way."


http://www.irvhomer.com/newsletter/who_will_be_sending_your_children.htm#Democrats


WHO WILL BE SENDING YOUR CHILDREN OR GRANDCHILDREN TO WAR

Democrats
Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71
David Bonior: Staff Sgt, Air Force 168-72
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt, Air Force SAC 1969-72
Al Gore: enlisted Aug 1969, sent to Vietnam Jan 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade
Bob Kerrey: Lt j.g. Navy 1699-69, Medal of Honor, Vietnam
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47, Medal of Honor, WWII
John Kerry: Lt navy 1966-70, Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt, Army 1948-52, Bronze Star, Korea
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68, Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53
Tom Harkin: Lt, Navy 1962-67, Naval Reserve, 1968-74
Jack Reed: Army ranger, 1971-1979, Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91
Fritz Hollings: Army Officer in WWII, Bronze Star & 7 Campaign Ribbons
Leonard Boswell: Lt Col, Army 1956-76, Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars & Soldier's Medal
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW, Purple Heart, Silver Star & Legion of Merit
Mike Thompson: Staff Sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart
Bill McBride: Candidate for Florida Governor, Marine in Vietnam, Bronze Star with Combat V
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Chuck Robb: Vietnam
Howell Heflin: Silver Star
George McGovern: Silver Star & DEC during WWII
Bill Clinton: DID NOT SERVE. Student Deferments, Entered Draft but received but received #311
Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy
Walter Modale: Army 1951-1953
John Glenn: WWII and Korea, Six DFCs and Medal with 18 clusters
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII, Saved by Raoul Wallenberg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Republicans -- These are the guys sending people to war:

Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. 'Bad Knee.' the man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christpher Cox: did not serve.
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Don Rumsfeld: served in navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
George W Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for US Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart & Distinguished Flying Cross
Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
John M McHugh: did not serve.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee Problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years
Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki" did not serve.
Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
John Engler: did not serve.
Lindsey Graham: National Guard Lawyer
Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian Army Base
Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pundits & Preachers:

Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Linbaugh: did not serve. (4-F with a pilonidal cyst)
Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.

 

[John G]

To be fairer you could add Lieberman to the Democrats and the first president Bush and Colin Powell to the Republicans. Interestingly, Lieberman is as hawkish as any Republican and the first Bush and Powell are "kinder and gentler".

 

[Sansom]

Hello, everyone. This is my first time so go easy on me (and I hope this goes in the correct slot).

I have just looked at this section of the forum and read the postings.

I am impressed with the level of thought and the wonderful level of love and concern shown toward those who have suffered and are suffering in our world.

I now feel that I am less alone in this feeling and hope that I can make better communications about my deep concerns for humanity.

I would like to make a few points, not to be critical, merely to raise some elements from within these postings.

One of you guys mentioned that 20 to 30 years ago people were less enlightened and less likely to protest or stand up to be counted (or words to that effect) than we are today. This was from the US perspective.

Well I live in the UK and have been here for about 45 years (but this does not mean anything, I'm probably going senile by now). My feeling is that we, as a race in the West (and even the East) have been dumbed down and encouraged to become mindless consumers, constantly in fear of losing the monthly paycheck, but constantly on the look out for the quick fix of consumer products to satisfy us temporarily. We appear more like 'headless chickens' today than at any time I can remember in the past. We are also at each others throats and competing constantly for space, attention (of our peers or superiors), and the roads are like the dogem car rides of the fairground.

Whilst this is a possible view for a proportion of us, perhaps there is a growing proportion of concerned individuals in certain sectors of the community (perhaps in certain Universities or even certain courses within those Universities or just the US in general), where this state of affairs is not common.

When I left school in the late 70s, there was a much better community spirit than today, but also a much healthier distrust of authority, authority which was kept in check by a tendency for working people to be part of a strong union. I know that certain union leaders were supposed to have abused the power that they had (well power always corrupts) but I did not see it that way and saw little evidence that the Unions power had 'run away with them'. The uniion movment also provided an alternative working person's history divorced from the glorification of Kings and Queens and their warring. I saw what I think is a better balance of democracy than we have today.

This soon changed in the Thatcher (and Reaghan for you guys) years. Since then we have been on a downward trend in terms of community and the rights of the individual.

In the 60s we had so much change and social unrest to make that change. I know it was not a perfect world, and many were 'stuck in their ruts' (sucking up to the elite power structure). But there did appear to be a climate of political change and a greater sense of power to the people than I see today.

Recorded crime has quarupled in this past 20 to 30 years in the UK also. This is a sign that something is not working or is it just stats and damn lies?

Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps I am out of touch (I live very rurally now and so do not have my finger on the pulse as I once did).

I do hope for a change of the mass mind; For a development towards positive evolution for our race, the flora and fauna and our planet.

I am sure it all starts in places like this though. Perhaps we can work towards some ideas as to where we can all begin to make things better. I agree that the predator leaders of this world have to take the blame for this mess and must make ammends for their wickedness, but they will not change until we make them (by none violent means I mean). Our awareness being raised is the first step. Those who are not aware certainly make life easy for the Bushes and Blairs of this world.

What do you guys think, you are the the aware ones how can we enhance this awareness and spread the word?

Just some thoughts and an imponderable question.

Thanks for letting me communicate.

Sansom.

 

[Guest]

One of you guys mentioned that 20 to 30 years ago people were less enlightened and less likely to protest or stand up to be counted (or words to that effect) than we are today. This was from the US perspective.

Welcome. Actually that was me who said that. This is what I said:

People say Americans are asleep, but 20 or 30 years ago that slumber was so deep that there wasn't even any questioning it.

Now the sleep is troubled, and much effort is being expended by the PTB to keep wakefulness at bay. Such effort was not even necessary 20 or 30 years ago. There were stirrings in the 60's and 70's but they were squashed, and America went into unconsciousness swiftly. Now stirrings are everywhere. They are only stirrings, but putting everyone under does not work anymore.

This applied to America, but also to the rest of the world. Why? Because the presentation was not so bad. Before 9/11 there were many protests all around the world against the IMF and World Bank, but as soon as it hit the fan they decreased greatly. Back then the American government acted against the people in a gradual manner until the very people that were protesting became compliant materialists. Western Europe is only recently experiencing that kind of crack-down.

People did care back then, but they did not have a new world order ideology threatening with mass detention and torture. It was easier to protest back then, and because of that it died out as soon as the young people started growing up, having to worry about basic survival, while the older ones were branded failures.

If the same conditions were imposed by the PTB back then there may have been a lot more immediate violence, but immediate reaction does not necessarily imply awakening. Here is an analogy: I can lift my arm high when it is not weighted, and not so high when it is not weighted. However, the weight increases my arms strength so the power to life it up and not be put down becomes greater in the long run.

If people were truly awake, they would have stayed that way, anywhere in the world. Yet it was not just the generation after those who were dissenting 20-30 years ago that got dumbed, but the ones who were formerly free thinkers. In fact, they were allowed to express, and they were studied, and from those studies new methods of dumbing were organized, and funding was provided to increase the communications media potential for that reason. Fortunately, the Internet was also the result of that direction.

It's easy to think and act a certain way when the official culture supports it, at least phenomenally. Back then there was a certain romantic allure to be a free thinker. Today there is not. Today we are challenged to stand on our own, and so even the slightest movement toward free thought pack a lot more potential than it did, because what we have to bear today is far more than was pushed in the good old days.

Regarding the age old question of what to do, it's a matter in progress. Raising awareness is also raising awareness of what to do. And raising awareness makes it more difficult for the powers to do what they want because what they want demands our compliance not just in action but through an attitude of submission. They have invested quite a bit in keep us asleep, and undeniably it is of utmost importance to them.

We tend to think in terms of "what can I do", instead of what can we do, and that tends to make it seem we have to take on the world. Instead it is probably more practicle to realize we are the world. This is the awareness that can spread like wildfire once the kindling catches in a few. Then each of us may actually realize that what we can do happens to be what we are able to do, and not in the realm of the superhuman.

Although the Internet was alive and well five years ago, I have never encountered this level of consistent discourse, especially during times when such discourse is far more difficult to be expressed in most people's social circles. As one SOTT editorial said, we are awakening and the establishment is clamping down.

Wheither we awaken enough before it clamps down remains to be seen. However, as we awaken even a little bit the establishment's ability to clamp down weakens, for now just a bit, but awakening that is moving forward in the face of THIS resistance has a force that was not evident in former times. Its just that that force is hard to observe because of what stands against it. It is a force to be reckoned with, nevertheless.

That's my opinion anyway. Thank's for communicating.

 

[Sansom]

Hey no-body said your posting was anything less than tremendous!

I am merely asking the question that needs to be asked. Are we really waking up?

Or are we being dumbed down?

You are clearly in a good level of awakened state so this is not a personal attack or any such thing.

The uprisings that you speak of in the 60's and 70's have were quite major and nothing today comes close sadly. Was it an awakening? Well to some extent yes it must have been otherwise so many changes to our scene at that time would not have been made (much improved racial equality and the gap between rich and poor reduced to some notable extent).

The New World Order issue has been around for a long long time (some say 1776 -Adam Weishaupt- some say earlier see protocols of Zion). We must make allowance for this. As for the process of dumbing down earlier generations, it seems that consumerism has had quite an impact on that, the feeling that most people seem to be getting what they want has allowed all sorts of subterfuge plenty of headroom.

The free thinkers of yesteryear become the entrepreneurs of today it would seem, or perhaps that is a distortion and what soem people wnat us to think. I agree that we are always being studied, infiltrated and newer and better ways are being developed to control our minds, bodies and souls.



Is it fear that is being bred into us, so that awakened beings become less functioning (fear ensures that we think from the limbic portion of the brain....the ol lizard brain I believe)?

People being awake and the suggestion that they must stay that way, why? Perhaps you are right.

Perhaps people stay awake as long as they feel there is something to stay awake for. In the past the awakening was encouaged by great speakers like Martin Luther King who inspired and guided their consciences. Perhaps what you are speaking of is a different type of awakening?

I am not sure that I see this in my country at the moment! This is my point. I cannot change that because you see it differently in the US. But two terms of Bush beg the question as to what extent people have awakened, especially after 9/11 and Iraq. I cannot believe that he got voted in again. But then the election was rigged and the political system is a sham anyway (as they all are, are they not?), but a change of leader would have at least given some idea as to how far the pendulum was swinging. However, you may be right in saying that things have changed from that time to this. I would like to think that is right. Please let me know your thoughts on this.



I have searched high and low in this country for the last decade or so and I see the stranglehold of the state being held tighter and tighter. I see almost all of the people (except a few very strong willed activists) avoiding the issues of what we might be facing in various ways. One way is of the New Age wishful thinking brigade....of which there are many in my part of the UK.....they are convinced that they are awake, but from my perspective they are about as fully in slumberland as it is possible to get.

I hope you are right. The US people were always more inclined to be individuals than people in the UK, I hope that this is still the case.

I do think it is important to ask the questions and for us all to refine the answers and arrive at some useful and workable set of principles that we (the ones awakening) might use to move ourselves and our race forward.

Iam grateful for your opinion. I always write with great love and respect for my fellow being. I may question what is being written, but I do not offer this as a threat. We are all in this together, if brothers and sisters such as you and I cannot communicate rationally and with civility then there is less hope for us all. And so I hope that you find my posting rational and civil? Please say so if not.

We, the awakened (or awakening...I'm not sure as to where I'm at entirely and the creator is keeping quiet for now) ones are obviously being tasked with the 'wake up calling' of our fellow beings. I suppose it must help to know which of them are sleeping and which are awake. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Thank you my friend, it is good to talk, and I hope we can communicate again soon and assist each other in trying to make sense of all this mess that we have found ourselves in. Hey! and clear some of the mess up (hopefully) in due course! And more importantly as you say....together!
;

 

[Guest]

Sorry if I came off as if I was offended. I wasn't (ain't so easy). I just wanted to clarify a point I thought needed clarifying. There are people who write here coming to pick a fight, and obviously you are not one of them so just take my means of expression as being passionate about the subject. There is a fine line between discussion and argument, but I don't think we are anywhere near crossing it here.

I guess being "awake" is also pretty relative. There are probably stages or grades to it that are hard to really identify except in relation to how one considers one's own state.

I will agree that the uprisings of the 60's and 70's were major, but today the situation is a bit more intense, and those people were not met with the threats and propaganda that are thrown at them these days. Those who protested then were not only the young, and today those who were young then can compare and know how much more difficult it is today.

That's why I think the student marches in France for example are of major significance if only for the reason that a group of people is openly defiant in whatever way they can be. Then again society in France is not the same as that in the US. Protests of that nature in France are almost tradition, a tradition that Americanization could not squelch.

I remember marching in Madrid a few years ago, against Spain's support of the Iraq war. Those marches and the then governments attitude toward the Madrid bombings brought that government down. But you have to wonder if the next government is more honest or just another tactic.

And what is going on today has probably been planned for a long time. That may seem discouraging to people who are noticing what is going on, but anyone needs to consider that the "studies" of those who "study" us are only as good as the observers themselves. And those who are studied would greatly benefit by understanding the root (psychopathic) nature of those that deem them lab rats and slaves to be.

I believe we who still have an ounce of compassion alive within are to an extent unpredictable to the psychopaths trying to gain control, because compassion and empathy are alien to them. They try to understand us by either misrepresenting this variable or ignoring it. In fact, they want to turn people into compassionless beasts because THEN they CAN control them and predict their behaviour. That is why I believe it is important to cultivate those qualities of our humanity, because it places us beyond their ability to peg. And if they can't peg us, they make mistakes.

To me, awakening is not so much an either/or state, but a very complex process individually and even more so collectively. Much of it is like the bottom part of the ice-berg, imperceptable but supporting the part that we can see. There are, therefore, dynamics in the human psyche that are moving people to awakening, that we as observers of others cannot yet see. The powers that be (PTB) know that they do not have all the time in the world to implement their plans, because every move they make raises the temperature in the cauldron of humanity just a bit more.

Already there has been much give and take about the PTB, so we might consider if there is a saturation temperature that will start the cauldron boiling. So far things are going from bad to worse, but it is not yet do or die for the majority of humanity. And waking up our fellow humans in my opinion is best done gradually, as it is being done now. Why? Because people are stubborn, and even though they refuse to awaken openly, perhaps they are taking the proddings to awaken somewhere deep where others cannot see, even they.

This means that if "do or die" does come, people will not be caught completely off guard. And long before that happens we need to observe the dumbing down process because it has a deliberate method within which are hidden the weaknesses of the PTB. They are cautious, and that means they are afraid, which means somewhere they are vulnerable. Understanding them means we can understand where they are vulnerable. Understanding ourselves means we can understand where we are strong.

Knowing their weaknesses and our strengths is a powerful combination, and we can see that the PTB is afraid of that combination because it wants us to be locked on their strengths and our weaknesses, which serves them well.

Anyway, I do hope you didn't consider my reply uncivil. Being civil is one thing, but holding back potentially valuable contributions in a discussion because we fear offending others undermines the purpose of networking. Besides, I'm just another contributor here and nobody special, and accept everyone else's opinion openly because it fuels my own understanding one way or another.

Maybe this kind of thing does not seem practical to some given the crucial nature of the state of affairs today, but IMO the first step is getting a handle on the problem so we may begin turning the tables from being victims to being agents of addressing it. And to do that we need to keep tackling it and all IT throws at us. We my be surprized at the results.

 

[Sansom]

Glad to be able to have a good conversation.

The cauldron situation that you speak of, I have heard the phrase 'boiling frog' to describe the situation where most people are not aware that their 'goose is being cooked'. The story goes that if you try to put a frog (I know, what evil bar steward tried this experiment) into boiling water, it will jump out immediately and avoid becoming pychopath stew. But if a frog is placed in lukewarm water and the heat slowly turned up, the frog stays there and calmly accepts it's fate and by the time the heat is too much, it is too late to jump out. Perhaps this is the situation that many of our fellow beings find ourselves in. I'm all for yelling from the rooftops, 'get out, Bush and Blair are making one hell of a stew....out of yew'! Sorry, trying to make light of a dark situation.

I agree that we need to be able to speak our minds and now we know a bit more about each other I am sure that we can do this and keep on being friends.

I am not easliy offended myself, but I am aware of how easily some people can be offended. It takes a little getting used to, this IT chatting, as we cannot use facial expressions, intonation or body language to convey our state of seriousness or tongue in cheek...ness(?).

I think that we seem to be very much on the same side and have a similar view. This sort of discussion merely helps to polish our skills and our knowledge/understanding I think.

The PTB may be dark and lacking, but there is another side to this. They are able to teach us so much about ourselves. One cannot sharpen a sword on a bar of soft soap. The sword of our spiritual development has to face the challenges of the psychopath (the petty tyrant as Castenada calls them). When we can do this without fear, we have passed the first element of the test. I am sure you have heard all this before.

Just a reminder that our enemies are also our teachers. Another point of view is that our best friend is the one who is prepared to tell us our faults.....most friends do not help us in this way, it takes courgage. But our enemies are happy to do this, although they might also be happy to lie to us also, or exaggerate.

I like to shoot from the hip wherever I can. But I feel happier about it when the person I am communicating with has the strength to deal with this without feeling a need to become ego defensive.

Heck, I am running low on energy (I suffer with chronic illness sadly).

Will pick up this conversation again, but suffice to say that every cloud has a silver lining, and I am not making excuses up for the psychopaths, but Jesus said that we must 'forgive them, as they know not what they do'.

I say, I will forgive them, but I intend to give them a bloody good hiding first!

Take good care.