Overdue apology

[JonnyRadar]

Hey Fluffy, sorry to hear you're feeling bad. I've got to say, it sounds like you're going through a serious detox reaction as opposed to having a virus, based on how much iodine you're taking. 20 drops per day of 5% is a LOT, and you're definitely going to induce some kind of herxheimer reaction by taking that much.

I would recommend four things, personally:

1- Get off the sugar! I know it's hard but it's really hurting your system right now, and you WILL NOT detox effectively while you're eating sugar. It's also not helping your mental state at all, which you need help with while overcoming an addiction.
2- Back the iodine off for a little while to maybe half what you're taking now or less and see if you start to feel better. I really think you're going through iodine-induced detox right now.
3- Take Bentonite clay internally to help flush toxins (this is a good source _http://www.eytonsearth.org/)
4- Make sure you're getting the three main neurotransmitter precursors right now - L-Tyrosine (for dopamine), L-Theanine (for GABA), and 5-HTP or L-Tryptophan (for serotonin).

Good luck, I do hope you get to feel better.

For what it's worth, I went through similar psychological symptoms when I quit, and absolutely what helped me the most was getting my diet under control and supplementing those neurotransmitter precursors, along with Alpha Lipoic Acid...

Hang in there...

EDIT: Also, get some exercise if you feel up to it. Doesn't need to be strenuous, just get out for a little walk every day if you can... It'll help, trust me.

 

[Chad]

Hey Fluffy :)

Congratulations on getting to where you are.


There's been some excellent advice above so I’ll just add two things which i hope may help in some way, it helped me understand the mechanics at the very least:

[...]
At night my dreams are so detailed and intense that even though I'm asleep for 8 hours I wake up mentally exhausted from them and physically exhausted from the load my body is under. My resting heart rate is rarely below 100.
[...]

I can relate. When i wasn't smoking, growing up and now, it's normal for me to have intense dreams, which can wake me up; whilst i was smoking though i barely remembered any; when i stopped, every night was crazy - keep a dream journal if you can, it's a lot of fun even if they're fairly mundane. More about that below.


REM Rebound: Apparently when smoking you tend to miss much of your REM/Dream sleep - where you process the day's events and possible future events (and much more i'm sure). So there's this thing called REM Rebound which you then have to 'catch up on' for all the time you missed.

It kinda makes sense since there was an article on sott which stated that one way to help sleep better, was to address any concerns you had before hand, leaving dreaming for other things, or at least for a more constructive, efficient dream state. And if you've missed so much, then you've a lot of 'filing' to do.

(i just found it)

When the balance is upset the REM sleep is extended, which reduces the deep [physically restorative] sleep. This can mean that even if you get a full 8 hours of sleep, you still wake up feeling exhausted.

The problem comes when your subconscious struggles to do the filing. Imagine that your subconscious is a little person that gathers all the paperwork relating to your day's activities. Let's call him Bob for now. You go to sleep and Bob takes the pile of paperwork and starts to organise it. But the first bit of paper he picks up could go in a number of places, so he sticks it in a separate pile for later and grabs the next paper. This continues to the point where the 2 hours is simply not enough. So Bob takes a little more time than he should to do the filing. This means the deep restorative sleep is reduced and your mind and body don't recharge fully by the time you wake up.

I know this is typical advice 'write down your worries' and such, but the way it was written gave logic to the reasons why it worked.

This Is Why Your Dreams Are So Intense When You Stop Smoking Weed

According to Dr Hamburger, this resurgence of dreams happens because weed suppresses your REM sleep. When you put your rolling papers, pipe or vapourisers away for a while, your REM sleep suddenly recovers the free reign it had before you became a blacked out stoner.

Because I'm not a somnologist myself, I asked Dr Hamburger what REM sleep exactly is: "Every night, you go through about four or five sleep cycles. Each cycle takes about 90 minutes, during which you go through different phases. There's superficial sleep, deep sleep and finally REM sleep. During that REM period, you have most of your dreams. You don't usually remember your dreams if you continue sleeping. The last REM period just before you wake up takes the longest – and you'll only remember the dreams you had in that time if you wake up during it. If you don't wake up during the REM period, you won't remember a thing."

Does this mean you can't remember anything at all when you're sleeping? The answer seems to be no. "You only remember the things that happen while you're awake. We don't remember the things that happen while we are sleeping, because we're in a lowered state of consciousness. That has something to do with the fact that when you're asleep, you're processing the memories of things that happened during the day and essentially filing them away in your brain."

Dreams help you sort through the thousands of impressions and images you encounter every day. When you smoke weed regularly, that is also suppressed. Dr Hamburger confirms this: "By smoking weed, you suppress the REM sleep, and with that you also suppress a lot of important functions of that REM sleep. One of those functions is reliving the things you have experienced and coming to terms with them, as it were. Processing all kinds of psychological influences is something you do in REM sleep. You also anticipate the things that will happen the next day or the days after that. While you're sleeping, you already consider those and make decisions in advance."

The less you give your brain the chance to sort this out during REM sleep, the more dazed and confused you are during the day. This may explain why the seasoned stoner will often put off tasks and decisions until the very last minute: you failed to anticipate these issues properly, which is why you're late filing your tax return again, or can't remember where you left your house keys.

[...]
Anyway, back to smoking weed. The effect weed has on your night's rest is clear. But why are your dreams so hyper realistic and feverish after you stop smoking weed?: "If you've been taking a drug that suppresses a certain phenomenon for a while, then that phenomenon will come back stronger when you stop using that drug. That's what we call 'the rebound effect' – which is also noticeable in people who take a lot of sleeping pills. If they stop taking those, they often get very strange and intense dreams. That is also often the reason why people keep taking those sleeping pills – they become dependent on them, which is to say, addicted."

In other words: your body goes into sprint-dream-mode, and that is why your dreams are so intense. According to Dr Hamburger, the body recovers from the rebound effect on its own over time: "It is a temporary attempt to catch up on all the dreaming you missed when you were smoking weed. It usually goes away after two to three weeks. Your body will know when it's all caught up and ready to go back to business as usual."

and:

Ingesting THC or marijuana before bed also appears to reduce the density of rapid eye movements during REM sleep. Interestingly, less REM density has been linked to more restful sleep.

[...]

Regular users of cannabis experience an abnormal increase in REM sleep when use is stopped. This is called the REM rebound effect, which leads to longer and denser periods of REM sleep. The REM rebound explains why cannabis users often experience highly vivid dreaming when trying to quit.

The Importance of REM Sleep

While healthy people should avoid taking substances that alter their sleep, it’s not clear whether the effect of marijuana on REM sleep is actually harmful. In fact, experts are still not sure why we need REM sleep.

On the other hand, deep sleep is believed to be the most important sleep stage for repairing and restoring the body. Likewise, studies show that when deprived of sleep, the brain prioritizes deep sleep over REM sleep.

While more research is needed, it’s possible that the ability of marijuana to increase deep sleep, even at the expense of REM sleep, might turn out to be a good thing.
The sleep disturbances that occur during cannabis withdrawal usually begin 24-72 hours after quitting and can persist for up to 6-7 weeks.

Thing is, whilst that may be beneficial to people who are quite sick, i would expect the REM stage is incredibly important both psychologically, and maybe even 'spiritually' - Alan Kardec in the Spirits Book talks about how in dreams we do things on other planes. Idk for sure but it's something for consideration.


The other thing i wanted to add which i think provides a healthy balanced look at what marijuana actually is, perhaps a medicine, was a talk with a lady who was in a full body cast and felt like the opioid meds were ruining her. Baring in mind she was in a full body cast, even she stated that no more than one puff was sufficient to her recovery. I think it goes to say that it may just be a powerful medicine, and the way it's used/abused in our day is actually very ignorant of it's effects.

We have other methods given to us, such as EE - which Laura used for her own recovery, since i understand it was the debilitating pain that actually inspired EE.

But for me, it at least provided a balanced view on the matter, rather than that it was pure evil, because as a former smoker, i can't see it only like that. And to do so is probably black and white thinking anyway. But I wouldn't recommend it in the same way i wouldn't recommend an opioid; unless options are limited and something is required. The video link should you feel it appropriate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLrDGoF-67k

Keeping busy with the necessary, as well as the things that make you feel inspired is very important imo.

All the best and thanks for sharing your story thus far

 

[Fluffy]

I'm struggling to find the desire to post whats going on because it seems like I'm changing my mind every few hours about what I think and feel.
There are some constants

When you noticed "meaningless dope fuelled friendships" I can relate to the general problem many may have when trying to relate to others only in a "dissociated" state. It is the reality we have difficulty tuning into for ourselves and coping. If we don't have others who are like-minded in wanting to know the true reality I don't think we can really even survive.

So from my point of view I don't think you will go to hell since "all there is is lessons". It is for me just how many times do I want to repeat 3rd grade (I really don't think I want to).

I don't want to do this all again, being born into a new body with a new veil of forgetfulness, I think I've been flogging that horse for hundreds of lifetimes. I also don't want old patterns to continue to be the reason that I keep myself locked in here, breaking them is the only solution. Besides from pot I've always lacked any kind of meaningful motivation that lasts for very long, I'm whimsical, I always have been a jumper from one thing to another so I don't relate to anything long, having said that, I found Cassiopaea 4 years ago and I'm still around (however loosely) so there is hope for me yet with that one, but its a major concern of mine, fleeting passion and forgetfulness are things that plague me.

i feel i sabotaged my friendships with the people in my life who did smoke so as to give myself a chance. Its probably a bad way to go about it, but better no friends then the wrong friends, or so i have found. Its a long process, and will be longer then we think no doubt. But if you truly want this, you will make small efforts each day and it will become easier.

Your world is only as small as you make it and this small step, in sharing your predicament, is broadening that world.

Narcissism is far worse when we realize we are exactly that but its a good step and its important to remind yourself of this. I know it hit me so very hard when i identified it in myself. Just gotta keep reading, keep observing and pushing in that right direction. If you want to do it, you can :)

I intentionally sabotage things so I cant go back, that is a massive narcissistic trait (and the others, long list of mine). My closest friend who is deeply into the marijuana world is no longer my closest friend anymore. I gave her the option by openly expressing most of my views (apart from selling for personal gain which I think karma will sort out for her so I need say nothing there) I think that smoking weed is an open invitation for spirit attachments and she thinks she is immune because she does 'rituals' to protect herself which I think is nonsense and wishful thinking (other opinions and ideas on this one please coz I really don't know, just making assumptions from the books I've read on spirit releasement), she also thinks love can heal everything including psychopaths, I said that anyone who thinks that must be insane... I haven't heard from her in two weeks so I guess she has made her decision about me without me having to even do too much...

Hi Fluffy,

A lot of us have been in your shoes and sharing your story and experiences is helpful to people whether they come right out and tell you or not. At the very least you are helping yourself and there is nothing wrong with that.

I found this video very helpful when I was trying to quit. Here's a description:

With the increasing popularity of medical marijuana, more and more people are choosing to smoke pot on a regular basis. In this video, Dr. Malcolm Smith, a naturopathic physician uncovers the disturbing secondary actions of cannabis of which most people are not aware. Increased anxiety, sleeplessness, lack of motivation, and a disconnection from one's spiritual nature are just a few of the ways marijuana may negatively impact those who use it.

Here's a quote that might steel your resolve.

"According to the Great Work, a friend is one in which you support and encourage the other's expansion in either the mind or the spirit. Otherwise they are people you are sentimentally attached to it because they would eat cinnamon bun with you. And they will say 'hee, hee, hee' aren't we having fun!". Drug addicts do the same thing. Drug addicts want to be around people who will support them and be away from real friends. Do you know why? Because it feels good. To be a member of a mystery school can be catastrophic to the ego and to the ego's habits and to the propensity for mediocrity. No one ever cried striving for excellence. They only cried when their mediocrity was taken away from them and pointed out to them." - Jerhoam

So don't worry about losing your 'cinnamon bun' friends. By taking this step you are opening yourself up to new and deeper relationships with people.

Odyssey, best vid, I sporadically had all of those thoughts on marijuana across the ages of my use, ultimately I knew that while I smoked I was regressing myself more and more and in the most subtle way that I didn't even really begin to notice, no that's not true, I noticed but I didn't care, put it in the 'do it later' basket. I'm beginning to feel some connection with myself again in spits and spats but then the disconnection is also so glaring its even hard to look to see if i can connect... when i do feel the connection it's amazing, glorious, and I don't want to jeopardize losing that ever again.

I loved my cinnamon buns but like with weed there is a secondary effect and the secondary effect is that they don't really care about you at all unless they are high and you're sill choofing away, I certainly know how that works... I cant say I care anymore either, I feel remorse that i don't care but I am not going to do anything about it. Anything my pot friends have to offer me away from weed is outweighed by weed... with my weak will and shaky resolve I just cannot put myself in a position where I'm vulnerable, I have been known to be easily influenced, my spirit 'friends' that have always jumped on for the ride are never too far away awaiting opportunity and because we've been dancing together for such a long time they know very well how to give me the encouragement they need to get high, I'm onto them though, they hate that;)

I've been resisting writing this because I don't know what it means to me or any of you if I post it.. Just seems like more noise, I can't say for sure what I'll do about it, if I'll stay present, may be I'm only back because I've lost all my meaningless dope fuelled friendships and don't know where to turn to. I don't think that but I think lots of stuff that I don't believe so who knows!

In response to this I want to (once again) share this brilliant quote Joe posted on this thread:

Remember: Oppression thrives off isolation. Connection is the only thing that can save you.

Remember: Oppression thrives on superficiality. Honesty about your struggles is the key to your liberation.

Remember: Your story can help save someone's life. Your silence contributes to someone else's struggle. Speak so we all can be free. Love so we all can be liberated. The moment is now. We need you.

Sharing your struggles and honestly wanting to change is the opposite of noise - it is one of the most meaningful actions, and a central point of the forum. Not only does it provide you a platform where you can receive feedback to help you take steps towards changing, it serves an equally important purpose of showing others they are not alone in their own struggles, that others besides them go through similar hardships, addictions, self-doubts, setbacks, etc.

You are certainly not the only person on this forum dealing with a pot addiction, and you are not alone in your feelings about it. I quit last December - before that I've quit a few times and always regressed, but after enough shocks to my system in the form of feedback from others, self-observation, and dreams, I was finally able to kick the habit and now I've gone longer than I've ever gone without it since I started smoking. And this time around it's different than the last times I quit - I hardly even think about it anymore, and with a new job, reading, writing, spending time with those I love, I honestly don't even have time to think about it anymore.

I'm sure if you dig around the forum you will find many other examples of this same issue and other forms of addiction.

Hang in there, buddy! You have our support. If I can do it, so can you. :)

I've quit heaps of times too, this a big part of my apprehensions and not so ye old faithful in myself because I've not smoked for 1.5 years on my longest sobriety stint and not much changed for me... I didn't seem to get better at anything, I just did circles and eventually ended up back at the same place I had started except the hole was deeper, and it gets deeper and deeper til I found hell, may be my new found fear that hell is a place I can actually go to will help me break the old patterns of circles. None of that has started yet, I'm still wallowing, not taking much action, I don't want to smoke and don't think about it, I feel very blessed though, things could have been a lot worse... while I was on holidays 4 weeks ago some friendly policemen came over to my house and harvested my plant because a neighbour was offended by the smell, it stunk out the whole neighbourhood so fair enough not everyone enjoys the smell, but when the officers came back to question me when I got home they were very very good to me about it, led me on to not say anything and deny anything they questioned me on and even said that they could see I wasn't the pot smoking type and someone else must have been using my backyard... I haven't heard from them since, if we are talking about counting blessings then that has gotta be the best one this year so far, I don't even know what I was going to do with 2 pounds of the craziest weed I've ever smelled, the small amount of it I tried destroyed me... I like those police officers a lot, angels in disguise!!!! If I cant take that as a "come on" from the universe then may be I should bury my head in some wet cement right now!

IMO, there's a contradiction between the first sentence in the paragraph above and the rest. If you are sick of it, then you DO have what it takes. Or rather, only now can you prove yourself whether you do or you don't. And you can only know that once you have tried and can honestly say you have done your very best, one way or another. So, it's not too late, and you haven't disappointed anyone here. But you CAN be a part of this is you want to, now. Step by step.

I would never have noticed or even considered that to be a contradiction but i can see how it is now it's bought to my attention.
I feel some kind of obligation here, like i do about my kids and family, it's an innate obligation that doesn't cause any kind of resentment or anything more like a compelling 'what are the consequences if I fail' and it's not just about if I fail myself but if i fail everyone on this forum who do meaningful work. I certainly feel pressure from my highest vision of myself to be more than I am, I cant deny that I'm being called and prompted to take the reins and really crack down on myself... I want to, I really do, I just feel overwhelmed at the same time,

I'll come back to address other replies and more about where I am at a bit later, I just want to finish with publicly apologizing to MusicMan

Hello Fluffy, I don't want you to feel as if you are alone in your struggle, so if you would like I can listen to you.
For the information of other members, I am in the same suburb, so I'm only a phone call away.
I think it is good that you have started to share on the Forum again, and the feedback you have here is certainly positive, especially from those who have been in your situation.

I contacted you on facebook messenger to ask if you wanted some baby toys for your grand kids.
You replied that that would be nice and in my response to that I made a remark that was totally out of line and seemingly offensive about how it might be best if you didn't tell your daughter where they came from because I wasn't sure if I was able to remove all the polio from the mechanical bits..
This was intended in jest as there has been some friction with opposing views between your daughter and I on some of your facebook posts (whose opinion I respect as her opinion) and there is no way I would have ever said that as any kind of stab to cause a problem for you or I or between you and I. I have said this to you on messenger and as you haven't replied i assume that you're pretty unhappy with me about it but i want to take it further and let everyone here know that I take full responsibility for my actions and I'm genuinely sorry for the inappropriateness of that comment. I also understand if we cant have any contact because of the issues your daughter has with me.


I'll come back later when I have more time :)

 

[goyacobol]

I'm struggling to find the desire to post whats going on because it seems like I'm changing my mind every few hours about what I think and feel.
There are some constants

When you noticed "meaningless dope fuelled friendships" I can relate to the general problem many may have when trying to relate to others only in a "dissociated" state. It is the reality we have difficulty tuning into for ourselves and coping. If we don't have others who are like-minded in wanting to know the true reality I don't think we can really even survive.

So from my point of view I don't think you will go to hell since "all there is is lessons". It is for me just how many times do I want to repeat 3rd grade (I really don't think I want to).

I don't want to do this all again, being born into a new body with a new veil of forgetfulness, I think I've been flogging that horse for hundreds of lifetimes. I also don't want old patterns to continue to be the reason that I keep myself locked in here, breaking them is the only solution. Besides from pot I've always lacked any kind of meaningful motivation that lasts for very long, I'm whimsical, I always have been a jumper from one thing to another so I don't relate to anything long, having said that, I found Cassiopaea 4 years ago and I'm still around (however loosely) so there is hope for me yet with that one, but its a major concern of mine, fleeting passion and forgetfulness are things that plague me.

[....]

Fluffy,

Thank you for taking the time to try and address each of our posts individually with a lot of thoughtful reflection. As for my post above I was being honest in my opinion of hell as a quality of life issue and not wanting to return to 3D. I see my self in your struggle to be focused and not wanting to make the same mistakes over and over. For me it is a lot about being patient with myself and the journey. Even though part of my footnotes includes:

Session 16 October 1994:
A: Changes will follow turmoil be patient.
Q: (L) That is inexpressibly depressing. Do you understand?
A: Why? Change will follow.

I still struggle with patience in general. I suppose without discomfort or struggling there would be no test for patience. Lately I have realized more and more that this life or these lives we live include both joys and sorrows. I think it is the balance that makes the difference. If it takes a few more lifetimes I will just have to be patient but for that I will just have to "Wait and see". :)

Edit=Quote

 

[casper]

First, I am glad that you started again be active in the forum. :)

To really beat the addiction, you look back on your life and discover what they are harmful substances that you enjoy. Instead of destructive behavior begin to introduce activities that you meet, such as exercise (best as often as possible to be on the move.)
Your life complete with fun activities that will encourage a sense of satisfaction and happiness. Most people start with addictive activity because they do not feel happy and not satisfied with the current situation.

If you want to eliminate from the life drugs and alcohol, definitely will not help you if you go to clubs and be surround yourself with people who consume alcohol and drugs. You need to surround yourself with people who have a healthy lifestyle and positive habits (listening to music, a healthy diet, exercising goals)

To truly overcome addiction, you first have to believe that you really can, do not ever give up, you manage yourself and choose what kind of person you will be. You have to decide and say-enough.

 

[MusicMan]

I feel some kind of obligation here, like i do about my kids and family, it's an innate obligation that doesn't cause any kind of resentment or anything more like a compelling 'what are the consequences if I fail' and it's not just about if I fail myself but if i fail everyone on this forum who do meaningful work. I certainly feel pressure from my highest vision of myself to be more than I am, I cant deny that I'm being called and prompted to take the reins and really crack down on myself... I want to, I really do, I just feel overwhelmed at the same time,

I'll come back to address other replies and more about where I am at a bit later, I just want to finish with publicly apologizing to MusicMan

Hello Fluffy, I don't want you to feel as if you are alone in your struggle, so if you would like I can listen to you.
For the information of other members, I am in the same suburb, so I'm only a phone call away.
I think it is good that you have started to share on the Forum again, and the feedback you have here is certainly positive, especially from those who have been in your situation.

I contacted you on facebook messenger to ask if you wanted some baby toys for your grand kids.
You replied that that would be nice and in my response to that I made a remark that was totally out of line and seemingly offensive about how it might be best if you didn't tell your daughter where they came from because I wasn't sure if I was able to remove all the polio from the mechanical bits..
This was intended in jest as there has been some friction with opposing views between your daughter and I on some of your facebook posts (whose opinion I respect as her opinion) and there is no way I would have ever said that as any kind of stab to cause a problem for you or I or between you and I. I have said this to you on messenger and as you haven't replied i assume that you're pretty unhappy with me about it but i want to take it further and let everyone here know that I take full responsibility for my actions and I'm genuinely sorry for the inappropriateness of that comment. I also understand if we cant have any contact because of the issues your daughter has with me.

I'll come back later when I have more time :)

Fluffy, I owe you an apology actually, because for the last week or two I have been having some problems with technology and updating and what not. As well as this I have been travelling, twice to Goulburn in the last week, and then my youngest son ended up in hospital for suspected heart trouble. However those are just excuses. For some reason I did not see your response. Must be the Universe at work..
Please do not let my daughter impede your progress. She can look after herself, and her child is not my only grandchild.
As for your throwaway line, even that is not a problem, my wife used to work in childcare, and we routinely sterilize toys and such as a matter of course before the children get them. I want to thank you once again for your kind offer, and if it still stands I'll take you up on it.
I'll get back to you via facebook with details, otherwise it's just noise on the Forum.

 

[Aiming]

Hi Fluffy,

I agree with the various good feedback given to you here. Sharing about yourself as you are and where you are is not noise. It is you reaching out and being sincere, warts and all. Each of us has been and is making wrong decisions - that's part of the way we learn. So your realizations about yourself are an important - first - step.

If you look at how others here talk about their past drug use, you'll notice there's a difference in their description of it: the tone, the perspective towards it is different. While slipping into the state of "eating worms" is a natural part of it, it's important to not stay in there, but use your realizations as fuel to keep up pursuing the 'you' that you want to be.

Just make sure to stop yourself whenever you notice you're beating yourself up, since that's self-defeating and only leaves you going in circles. And maybe try to explore how your perspective of things and your attitude towards yourself and your learning process is the decisive factor in moving on and actually learning your lesson.

So yes, it isn't too late and you haven't disappointed anyone - except yourself. Since you wrote that previous attempts at quitting haven't changed things for the better, it might be good to explore angles you haven't looked into yet. For example, have you ever had someone assist you in the process of healing, like body work?

Given your description of your self-sabotage, there are probably important themes for you to uncover. In therapy, there are a couple of very interesting questions a client is being asked during anamnesis, which might give you some clues: 'Who has the greatest interest in your healing? Who has the least interest in your healing?' So, there's lots to discover!

In the end, it's about who you decide you want to be and then to take the necessary steps - step by step and day by day, no matter how long it takes or that you fall again - the most important thing is that you keep getting up and keep going on and stick to your aim - once you've decided what that is for you. Doing so is going to build your will over time and you'll regain self-respect as well. Having some sort of social support is also important - be it via your family, or finding new friends, or just keeping your connection to the forum where you can update us and feel heard and seen.

As others said, you might also want to find something constructive for you to do that'll replace the habit of pot smoking - preferably working out or even doing something for others, so you have an alternative at hand when the urge to smoke comes (and it will, given the way our brain is wired and how it takes some time until your system stabilizes). The good news in this context is that you can use the innate function of the brain to be able to rewire itself to your advantage!

(...)and don't eat til about 3 in the afternoon (I just don't feel like it)

I second Jonathan's advice on getting your diet in order no matter how hard right now, because it'll ease the process and provide your body and brain with the much needed nutrients. Sure, you know this, but remember, sugar is just another drug messing with your system, giving you ups and downs, and wearing you out. How about you try and establish a healthy eating rhythm and do have breakfast, for a good start of the day?

I think that smoking weed is an open invitation for spirit attachments and she thinks she is immune because she does 'rituals' to protect herself which I think is nonsense and wishful thinking (other opinions and ideas on this one please coz I really don't know, just making assumptions from the books I've read on spirit releasement)

According to the literature it does seem like any sort of addiction is indeed an open invitation to spirit attachments and rituals don't provide any protection. But again: it's all just lessons. In this case, finding out what makes oneself vulnerable and then working to change that, and developing willpower in the process. Once you change destructive habits, the respective attachments won't "match" anymore and will leave naturally, since they can only attach where they feel "cozy" and "at home".

Best of luck to you, Fluffy, and keep us posted!

 

[Fluffy]

Sorry I have t written, I think I will then when I have time I'm distracted with other things and my feelings about what I was thinking to write earlier have changed.

It's now been three months since I stopped the weed. I'm all over the place, especially with my diet, it's been worse than it has been in many many years. I've been binge eating again... an old habit which I thought I had broken. I've had a few decent fast days which makes me feel in control then I lose the plot again and eat whatever I can find... all of it. I can clearly see that I've just replaced one addiction for another. I've read In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Mate and I'm going through some dark days looking for the answers.
I see triggers everywhere and don't know how to tackle them.

I've been really depressed, some days like today I can barely make myself do anything. I have an EE disk but I can't make myself do it even though I'm laying in bed dying for something to help me. I just stare at the wall instead.

I'm taking all the supplement that have been recommended to me, just to see if they were helping I stopped taking them for a few days and seriously started having thoughts of wanting to end it all. I realised they are helping, a lot, I haven't had drastic thoughts like that for 8 or more years.

I'm really going to put in some very extreme efforts to fix my diet. I've got the worst colitis and have recently become intolerant of egg yolk and butter again.... and I've noticed that coconut is a no no too so I am struggling to stay on a very limited keto diet plan, I last a day or two after a fast then I can't take it anymore. I just feel so miserable without any escapes. I'll continue to fight though because what else is there to do, certainly if I keep up comfort eating I'll be very sick very soon.

Sorry about the short non detailed post, I just wanted to get the ball rolling again, my daughter is up from her nap and I need to pull myself together now.

I hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel but I don't see it yet

 

[Foxx]

I'm sorry to hear about the continuing struggles Fluffy. Have you tried seeing a health practitioner about your health troubles or considered therapy to help you work through some of the emotional challenges that you're having and change some of the habits you have that are detrimental to you? Doing one or both of those things could potentially help you get the ball rolling in the direction you want to go.

 

[Renaissance]

Try making some bone broth with some nice marrow bones with a bit of meat. There are a few recipes on the forum too. The bone broth seems to provide for missing nutrients and good fats and can really help stave off cravings to get you on track. I've found it's really helpful for re-establishing a healthy diet and setting the mind/body right again.

 

[Keit]

I'm really going to put in some very extreme efforts to fix my diet. I've got the worst colitis and have recently become intolerant of egg yolk and butter again.... and I've noticed that coconut is a no no too so I am struggling to stay on a very limited keto diet plan, I last a day or two after a fast then I can't take it anymore. I just feel so miserable without any escapes. I'll continue to fight though because what else is there to do, certainly if I keep up comfort eating I'll be very sick very soon.

Well, since wanting to eat comfort foods isn't only physiological, but also psychological, it can be particularly hard to avoid, especially if you go through a difficult period. In this case perhaps you could trick yourself somehow and think about tasty foods that you would like to "overeat", but that would still be considered ok and within the diet. Maybe bacon, tasty sausages, beef jerky, or anything else similar, like chicken wings. Maybe dry fish or pickles, if you have a craving for something salty. If there is a craving for something sweet, then maybe berries.

Also, Renaissance's idea is a great one, because often when we want comfort foods, what our body really wants is fatty goodness. Especially during winter time. And it is winter now in Australia, right? Having warm food during colder seasons can be also much more satisfying to the body. If so, and if the craving is really great, maybe do some mashed yams/sweet potato with bacon or other fatty meat.

The idea is that it is going to be particularly hard if you simply are going to struggle with food cravings by trying avoid them, but without addressing the other aspects of the problem. Especially since food craving are only one symptom.

 

[Fluffy]

First, I am glad that you started again be active in the forum. :)

To really beat the addiction, you look back on your life and discover what they are harmful substances that you enjoy. Instead of destructive behavior begin to introduce activities that you meet, such as exercise (best as often as possible to be on the move.)
Your life complete with fun activities that will encourage a sense of satisfaction and happiness. Most people start with addictive activity because they do not feel happy and not satisfied with the current situation.

If you want to eliminate from the life drugs and alcohol, definitely will not help you if you go to clubs and be surround yourself with people who consume alcohol and drugs. You need to surround yourself with people who have a healthy lifestyle and positive habits (listening to music, a healthy diet, exercising goals)

To truly overcome addiction, you first have to believe that you really can, do not ever give up, you manage yourself and choose what kind of person you will be. You have to decide and say-enough.

This is entirely true, first comes belief in the self, I've quit bigger drugs than weed and it stemmed from an internal 'enough is enough', no matter what the outside was projecting at me, for example my family begging me to look at my behaviour...
My addictive behaviours stem way further than just obvious drugs, I use food and exercise the same way I've used drugs in the past. It's as if I'm always looking for some hormonal stimulation as to escape from the present moment. High or low I really don't mind, and it's kind of like I enjoy being depressed as I do being happy.
It's difficult now with food because everyone around me eats differently to how I want to eat... They're carb junkies, I've overcome this before and not allowed it to bother me much but it's still did a bit, right now it does a lot and because I'm stuggling with it there is a lot of resentment and a lot of can't beat them join them behaviour. I can't run away from it. A long sabbatical sounds amazing but it's just not possible. Some more exercise has been incorporated in the last few days. Just some weights at home, I have a little trepidation with that too though because I have been an exercise junkie before, I'll stay away from gyms and group classes, I was more obsessed with the gym than I have been with any other of my drug like activities. It ruled my life and I got a very bad body distortion disorder. It took years to get over that. Some squats at home sounds safer!!!

Try making some bone broth with some nice marrow bones with a bit of meat. There are a few recipes on the forum too. The bone broth seems to provide for missing nutrients and good fats and can really help stave off cravings to get you on track. I've found it's really helpful for re-establishing a healthy diet and setting the mind/body right again.

Thanks, I'll drink more of it. I have some in the fridge constantly, it's probably been my saving grace and the reason my internal organs haven't melted away. It does make me feel better instantly.... Some days that's all I have and the difference is noticeable the next day.

I'm sorry to hear about the continuing struggles Fluffy. Have you tried seeing a health practitioner about your health troubles or considered therapy to help you work through some of the emotional challenges that you're having and change some of the habits you have that are detrimental to you? Doing one or both of those things could potentially help you get the ball rolling in the direction you want to go.

I have and I want to very much. We are also dealing with a depressed 16 year old who is seeing a chiropractor and counsellor weekly, finacially we are getting a bit of a flogging and spending more money than that is coming in. I spend a LOT on supplements every month too. My partner is freaking out, he thought it was awesome that I'm not the shopping kinda gal who likes jewellery, makeup, clothes or anything fancy... turns out I might be more expensive than he thought!
I called for the free counselling service but they use a triage system and only the most severe cases get free mental health sessions- I'm not suicidal enough, no one is at risk and I didn't qualify for the 10 free sessions.

What I'm really feeling is that I've just got to find something that works, keep searching and trying.... I've done all this before, over and over. I can't really understand why this time is different. The time before last time I quit weed I didn't smoke for 5 months and that whole time I stayed in keto, must admit hat I wasn't trying to detox anything and the keto didn't really do anything that I could see, still had pretty severe brain fog and unhappy digestive system.

What I really really would love right now is to spend a month sitting on a rock in the sun with a cold river to drink and wash in and a tree to sleep under... I have been reading about extended fasting... Longer than the 4 days or a week that I've done before. A really long full rejuvenation of the body mind and soul.

I can't go away to do this, a fasting retreat would be ideal, but I have a family and I just can't leave for a month at this point in time. I'm planning on doing it at home in about seven weeks. I know there is a lot of contraversy about long fasts but I really really feel like it's what I need on every level of my being. I know I need to clean up my diet before this so its not too shocking so I've given myself the rest of this week to get to the crux of the idea of what comfort actually means to me.... I think I need to be so uncomfortable and so out of the comforting zone before I can really begin to see things really how they are.

I started taking DMSO two days ago (right after I posted last) to begin to prepare my body for the fast(mm as delicious as it smells), just a small amount of 1.5 ml twice a day.
I notice it's detox effects as slight headache and gurgly stomach. Other than that it has soothed my gut a bit (my diet has been a little better) and I haven't felt depressed- at all.
As of Sunday after my father in laws 70th birthday I will really forge forward at planning my diet. Paleo (no nuts, coconut or eggs) seems like the best option for now. Even if I need to overeat for some mental reason as Keit suggests I should do it with food that won't poison me like sweet potato or berries.

I don't know what others here think about long fasting. I know it seems extreme but I do have the support of my partner, mother and very reluctantly my doctor, he says no way but because I say yes way he feels obligated to oversee any problems that might come up.

I'm at point where I'm willing to do anything. I'm done with toxic living, I want to feel clean and free so I can get on with what needs to be done and stop being so tied up in my little subjective affairs... I have so much more to offer than this- always trying but going nowhere. It's time for a complete overhaul... The other night I dreamt that there was poo everywhere I went, I was stepping in it and it was falling on me, I was very disturbed, one of those dreams when you know you're dreaming.. It felt like a view of my inner landscape and my semiconscious' way tell me I need to clean up... The idea for an extended fast came in that dream, before that I thought a week was plenty, now after reading I feel like a week is just a touchstone and 4 weeks is optimal..... I'm going to give it a go, there is nothing to lose if I fail and may be so much to gain if I succeed.

 

[theos]

I don't know what others here think about long fasting. I know it seems extreme but I do have the support of my partner, mother and very reluctantly my doctor, he says no way but because I say yes way he feels obligated to oversee any problems that might come up.

I'm at point where I'm willing to do anything. I'm done with toxic living, I want to feel clean and free so I can get on with what needs to be done and stop being so tied up in my little subjective affairs... I have so much more to offer than this- always trying but going nowhere. It's time for a complete overhaul... The other night I dreamt that there was poo everywhere I went, I was stepping in it and it was falling on me, I was very disturbed, one of those dreams when you know you're dreaming.. It felt like a view of my inner landscape and my semiconscious' way tell me I need to clean up... The idea for an extended fast came in that dream, before that I thought a week was plenty, now after reading I feel like a week is just a touchstone and 4 weeks is optimal..... I'm going to give it a go, there is nothing to lose if I fail and may be so much to gain if I succeed.

When you say fast what are you talking about? Water? Broth? Hopefully, not juice. What type of fasting did you do in the past?

This is something that you'll want to ease into depending on how much fasting you've done in the past and if you're currently on the keto diet. If I were in your shoes, I'd go very low carb keto for at least 3-4 weeks for best results before doing any type of fast. It'll make things much easier with less detox reactions. If you're a skinny type you won't be able to do a prolonged fast with as much ease as a person with more fat reserves. So all of these things need to be taken into account and you have to do your research. But if you have a real strong urge to do it and the thought won't let you alone, you may want to experiment with shorter fasts (starting with broth then moving to water) just to get used to the feeling, both physical and psychological before trying a longer fast. There's alternate day fasting or fasting one or two days a week as additional options.

But again, just don't jump into a prolonged fast willy-nilly.

Here's some links if you haven't come across them already:

_http://www.allaboutfasting.com/

This site has a lot of older titles about fasting. Just scroll down to 'fasting'. _http://soilandhealth.org/alternative-medicine-by-subject/ (You have to submit your email addy to access the full books.) The thing about a lot of these titles and blogs I've come across is that most of them are written by raw foodists or vegans.

And the H&W show about fasting.

 

[Fluffy]

Thanks Odyssey,

I too have noticed that most fasting info is written by raw foodies or people who are animal fat avoiders. There isn't much that I've found on long fasting for people who are fat burners or paleo eaters, intermittent or fat fasting is popular but not the extended fast.

I plan to prepare very intently. Paleo for 3 weeks, keto for the two before I start and document every single thing that I go through. I'm only going paleo rather than jump straight into keto from where I've been. I have cut out dairy again wills start a lower carb paleo with more veggies before I start keto again. Keto is definitely hard with my problems with egg yolk, coconut and grassfed butter and I don't want to lose too much weight before I start a long fast.

I'm definitely not doing a juice fast, I don't eat fruit much at all, sometimes some berries but I'd rather go for other things. In the past I've done bone broth fasting, fat fast and water fasting and when I'm not being a piggy with food like I have been in the last 6 weeks I'm an intermittent faster daily.. I eat dinner at 6pm and a snack at about 8pm and nothing in between. Skipping days of eating is not uncommon either, I did a two day water fast a two weeks ago and a 4 day one about 8 weeks ago... It is definitely not long enough to kick start any healing that is beneficial, at 4 days everything is hurting a lot, I could have gone longer but was not prepared in my head for it as I had only decided to do 4 days before hand, and I didn't prepare my body properly either.
Right now I'm 56 kg at 162 cm, I have more fat than usual that I'll hold onto for the fast, I'd say 2 or 3 of that is water weight and approximate 40kg of lean body mass. This is something I'll keep a very close eye on and if I drop below 43kg I'll start to re-feed with bone broth. I've been 45kg after a week long water fast but I was only 49kg to start off with. I put the weight back on in 3 weeks and a few of more kg to my usual 52 or so kg.

Thanks for the links, I'll have a read when my little one is napping. I'm definitely determined to give this a real shot and do it properly. I listened to the health and wellness show which might have been a trigger for the poo dream I had a few nights after.

Lots of reading and prep to do, the urge is very strong and I at least need to try it out.

 

[genero81]

"I'm at point where I'm willing to do anything. I'm done with toxic living, I want to feel clean and free so I can get on with what needs to be done and stop being so tied up in my little subjective affairs... I have so much more to offer than this- always trying but going nowhere. It's time for a complete overhaul... The other night I dreamt that there was poo everywhere I went, I was stepping in it and it was falling on me, I was very disturbed, one of those dreams when you know you're dreaming.. It felt like a view of my inner landscape and my semiconscious' way tell me I need to clean up... The idea for an extended fast came in that dream, before that I thought a week was plenty, now after reading I feel like a week is just a touchstone and 4 weeks is optimal..... I'm going to give it a go, there is nothing to lose if I fail and may be so much to gain if I succeed."

Been there. There's some sayings in recovery; "Time takes time." "It's 20 miles into the woods, it's 20 miles back out." I felt as strongly about wanting to change as you but that frame of mind where I just wanted to 'get there' was keeping it from happening. Acceptance was the key. I had to quit fighting and accept where I was at before I could move forward. Step by step. There's no short cuts. You might want to review Goyocobal's last reply to you. I'll tell you a true story; it was probably 17 years ago by now, before things really got bad. I knew I had a problem with alcohol. I was living in Arizona and I was going to A.A. meetings. I could quit drinking but I couldn't stay quit. I was trying so hard to figure it out. I was riding a bike to a meeting but I had a flat tire so I was pushing the bike to the meeting. I was really thinking hard about, you know; what am I doing wrong? What can I do different? That sort of thing. All of a sudden there was this really strong thought/ voice in my head that said; "just relax" I'll never forget that. It took many years to finally make use of, but I've never received better advise from anywhere. That turned out to be the key. I was always in a hurry to try and change my internal, self centered fear driven state. People in the program kept saying things like; "surrender to win." I was like, what does that mean? Life at this level occurs in slow motion. If there's anything to escape, it's the neurotic need to be somewhere other than where you're at.

So, relax man.