Philip Gardiner, Homosexuality and Alchemy Disinformation

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Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

mopiet, you say you plan to write an article. That's really too bad since it is obvious that you cannot possibly know anything about the subject.

Why do I say that?

Because you have not knowledge of, or control over yourself; you have no BEing.

It seems quite obvious that any individual who wishes to pursue esoteric studies ought to have a clean and fully functional and most of all HEALTHY psyche before he goes wandering off into unknown realms. After all, if your psychological state is such that you cannot deal effectively with your everyday life, how can you possibly trust such a psychological state not to mislead you in studies where you have fewer solid landmarks or feedback mechanisms to guide you?

And so, the very FIRST order of business in any esoteric work is to get psychologically healthy. That's basically what the Gurdjieff "self-remembering" and Mouravieff "introspection" and Castaneda "recapitulation" is all about - though there is really more to it than that - it is a TRUE alchemy, for which we have received proof. Let me repeat that slowly: we have proof that it works.

So, before you write anything else, show me your proof that what you know can actually change your life, your reality in some significant way.

Meanwhile, quoting Gurdjieff, I think that I'm going to tell you what true alchemy is and how it works. I do not expect you to understand it, but for the sake of true seekers who will read this thread, I'm going to put it here.


Gurdjieff said:
"It has been said before that self-study and self-observation, if rightly conducted, bring man to the realization of the fact that something is wrong with his machine and with his functions in their ordinary state.

A man realizes that it is precisely because he is asleep that he lives and works in a small part of himself.

It is precisely for this reason that the vast majority of his possibilities remain unrealized, the vast majority of his powers are left unused.

A man feels that he does not get out of life all that it can give him, that he fails to do so owing to definite functional defects in his machine, in his receiving apparatus.

The idea of self-study acquires in his eyes a new meaning. He feels that possibly it may not even be worth while studying himself as he is now. He sees every function as it is now and as it could be or ought to be.

Self-observation brings man to the realization of the necessity for self-change. And in observing himself a man notices that self-observation itself brings about certain changes in his inner processes.

He begins to understand that self-observation is an instrument of self¬change, a means of awakening.

By observing himself he throws, as it were, a ray of light onto his inner processes which have hitherto worked in complete darkness. And under the influence of this light the processes themselves begin to change.

There are a great many chemical processes that can take place only in the absence of light. Exactly in the same way many psychic processes can take place only in the dark.

Even a feeble light of consciousness is enough to change completely the character of a process, while it makes many of them altogether impossible. Our inner psychic processes (our inner alchemy) have much in common with those chemical processes in which light changes the character of the process and they are subject to analogous laws. [...]

"The human organism represents a chemical factory planned for the possibility of a very large output. But in the ordinary conditions of life the output of this factory never reaches the full production possible to it, because only a small part of the machinery is used which produces only that quantity of material necessary to maintain its own existence. Factory work of this kind is obviously uneconomic in the highest degree. The factory actually produces nothing—all its machinery, all its elaborate equipment, actually serve no purpose at all, in that it maintains only with difficulty its own existence.

"The work of the factory consists in transforming one kind of matter into another, namely, the coarser matters, in the cosmic sense, into finer ones. The factory receives, as raw material from the outer world, a number of coarse 'hydrogens' and transforms them into finer hydrogens by means of a whole series of complicated alchemical processes.

But in the ordinary conditions of life the production by the human factory of the finer 'hydrogens,' in which, from the point of view of the possibility of higher states of consciousness and the work of higher centers, we are particularly interested, is insufficient and they are all wasted on the existence of the factory itself.

If we could succeed in bringing the production up to its possible maximum we should then begin to save the fine 'hydrogens.' Then the whole of the body, all the tissues, all the cells, would become saturated with these fine 'hydrogens' which would gradually settle in them, crystallizing in a special way.

This crystallization of the fine 'hydrogens' would gradually bring the whole organism onto a higher level, onto a higher plane of being.

"This, however, cannot happen in the ordinary conditions of life, because the 'factory' expends all that it produces.

"'Learn to separate the fine from the coarse'—this principle from the 'Emerald Tablets of Hermes Trismegistus' refers to the work of the human factory, and if a man learns to 'separate the fine from the coarse,' that is, if he brings the production of the fine 'hydrogens' to its possible maximum, he will by this very fact create for himself the possibility of an inner growth which can be brought about by no other means. [...]

"The whole of alchemy is nothing but an allegorical description of the human factory and its work of transforming base metals (coarse substances) into precious ones (fine substances). [...]

"The study of the work of the human organism as a chemical factory shows us three stages in the evolution of the human machine.

"The first stage refers to the work of the human organism as it has been created by nature, that is to say, to the life and functions of man number one, number two, and number three.

The first octave, that is, the octave of food, develops in a normal way to mi 192. At this point it automatically receives a 'shock' from the beginning of the second octave, and its development goes on consecutively to si 12.

The second octave, that is, the air octave, begins with do 192 and develops to mi 48 where it stops.

The third octave, that is, the octave of impressions, begins with do 48 and stops there.

Thus seven notes of the first octave, three notes of the second, and one note of the third octave represent a complete picture of the work of the 'human factory' in its first or natural stage.

Nature has provided only one 'shock,' that is, the 'shock' received from the entrance of the second octave which helps mi of the first octave to pass to fa.

But nature did not foresee and did not provide for the second 'shock,' that is, the 'shock' that would help the development of the third octave and thereby enable mi of the second octave to pass to fa.

A man must create this 'shock' by his own personal efforts if he desires to increase the output of the fine hydrogens in his organism.

"The second stage refers to the work of the human organism when a man creates a conscious volitional 'shock' at the point do 48.

In the first place this volitional 'shock' is transmitted to the second octave which develops as far as sol 12, or even further up to la 6 and so on, if the work of the organism is sufficiently intense. The same 'shock' also enables the third octave to develop, that is, the octave of impressions which in this event reaches mi 12. Thus in the second stage of the work of the human organism, we see the full development of the second octave and three notes of the third octave.

The first octave has stopped at the note si 12, the third at the note mi 12. Neither of these octaves can proceed any further without a fresh 'shock.'

The nature of this second 'shock' cannot be so easily described as the nature of the first volitional 'shock' at do 48. In order to understand the nature of this 'shock' it is necessary to understand the meaning of si 12 and mi 12.

"The effort which creates this 'shock' must consist in work on the emotions, in the transformation and transmutation of the emotions. This transmutation of the emotions will then help the transmutation of si 12 in the human organism.

No serious growth, that is, no growth of higher bodies within the organism, is possible without this transmutation.

The idea of this transmutation was known to many ancient teachings as well as to some comparatively recent ones, such as the alchemy of the Middle Ages. But the alchemists spoke of this transmutation in the allegorical forms of the transformation of base metals into precious ones. In reality, however, they meant the transformation of coarse 'hydrogens' into finer ones in the human organism, chiefly of the transformation of mi 12.

If this transformation is attained, a man can be said to have 'achieved what he was striving for, and it can also be said that, until this transformation is attained, all results attained by a man can be lost because they are not fixed in him in any way; moreover, they are attained only in the spheres of thought and emotion. Real, objective results can be obtained only after the transmutation of mi 12 has begun.

"Alchemists who spoke of this transmutation began directly with it. They knew nothing, or at least they said nothing, about the nature of the first volitional 'shock.' It is upon this, however, that the whole thing depends. The second volitional 'shock' and transmutation become physically possible only after long practice on the first volitional 'shock,' which consists in self-remembering, and in observing the impressions received.

[...]

"The third stage in the work of the human organism begins when man creates in himself a conscious second volitional 'shock' at the point mi 12, when the transformation or transmutation of these 'hydrogens' into higher 'hydrogens' begins in him. The second stage and the beginning of the third stage refer to the life and functions of man number four. A fairly considerable period of. transmutation and crystallization is needed for the transition of man number four to the level of man number five. [...]

"In order to understand the work of the human machine and its possibilities, one must know that, apart from these three centers and those connected with them, we have two more centers, fully developed and properly functioning, but they are not connected with our usual life nor with the three centers in which we are aware of ourselves.

"The existence of these higher centers in us is a greater riddle than the hidden treasure which men who believe in the existence of the mysterious and the miraculous have sought since the remotest times.

"All mystical and occult systems recognize the existence of higher forces and capacities in man although, in many cases, they admit the existence of these forces and capacities only in the form of possibilities, and speak of the necessity for developing the hidden forces in man. This present teaching differs from many others by the fact that it affirms that the higher centers exist in man and are fully developed.

"It is the lower centers that are undeveloped. And it is precisely this lack of development, or the incomplete functioning, of the lower centers that prevents us from making use of the work of the higher centers. [...]

"One of the most central of the ideas of objective knowledge," said G., "is the idea of the unity of everything, of unity in diversity.

From ancient times people who have understood the content and the meaning of this idea, and have seen in it the basis of objective knowledge, have endeavored to find a way of transmitting this idea in a form comprehensible to others. The successive transmission of the ideas of objective knowledge has always been a part of the task of those possessing this knowledge. In such cases the idea of the unity of everything, as the fundamental and central idea of this knowledge, had to be transmitted first and transmitted with adequate completeness and exactitude. And to do this the idea had to be put into such forms as would insure its proper perception by others and avoid in its transmission the possibility of distortion and corruption.

For this purpose the people to whom the idea was being transmitted were required to undergo a proper preparation, and the idea itself was put either into a logical form, as for instance in philosophical systems which endeavored to give a definition of the 'fundamental principle' from which everything else was derived, or into religious teachings which endeavored to create an element of faith and to evoke a wave of emotion carrying people up to the level of 'objective consciousness.'

The attempts of both the one and the other, sometimes more sometimes less successful, run through the whole history of mankind from the most ancient times up to our own time and they have taken the form of religious and philosophical creeds which have remained like monuments on the paths of these attempts to unite the thought of mankind and esoteric thought.

[Note: The faint traces of the ancient alchemical teachings in the Bible are so distorted that it is a waste of time to try to untangle the threads.]

"But objective knowledge, the idea of unity included, belongs to objective consciousness. The forms which express this knowledge when perceived by subjective consciousness are inevitably distorted and, instead of truth, they create more and more delusions.

With objective consciousness it is possible to see and feel the unity of everything. But for subjective consciousness the world is split up into millions of separate and unconnected phenomena. Attempts to connect these phenomena into some sort of system in a scientific or a philosophical way lead to nothing because man cannot reconstruct the idea of the whole starting from separate facts and they cannot divine the principles of the division of the whole without knowing the laws upon which this division is based.

"None the less the idea of the unity of everything exists also in intellectual thought but in its exact relation to diversity it can never be clearly expressed in words or in logical forms. There remains always the insurmountable difficulty of language. A language which has been constructed through expressing impressions of plurality and diversity in subjective states of consciousness can never transmit with sufficient completeness and clarity the idea of unity which is intelligible and obvious for the objective state of consciousness.

"Realizing the imperfection and weakness of ordinary language the people who have possessed objective knowledge have tried to express the idea of unity in 'myths,' in 'symbols,' and in particular 'verbal formulas' which, having been transmitted without alteration, have carried on the idea from one school to another, often from one epoch to another.

[Because of the particular motivations and generally pathological state of the authors of the texts of the Bible, what myths they utilized in their theological exposition were so distorted by that pathology that very little of the original remains.]

"It has already been said that the higher psychic centers work in man's higher states of consciousness: the 'higher emotional' and the 'higher mental.'

The aim of 'myths' and 'symbols' was to reach man's higher centers, to transmit to him ideas inaccessible to the intellect and to transmit them in such forms as would exclude the possibility of false interpretations.

'Myths' were destined for the higher emotional center; 'symbols' for the higher thinking center.

By virtue of this all attempts to understand or explain 'myths' and 'symbols' with the mind, or the formulas and the expressions which give a summary of their content, are doomed beforehand to failure.

It is always possible to understand anything but only with the appropriate center. But the preparation for receiving ideas belonging to objective knowledge has to proceed by way of the mind, for only a mind properly prepared can transmit these ideas to the higher centers without introducing elements foreign to them.

"The symbols that were used to transmit ideas belonging to objective knowledge included diagrams of the fundamental laws of the universe and they not only transmitted the knowledge itself but showed also the way to it. The study of symbols, their construction and meaning, formed a very important part of the preparation for receiving objective knowledge and it was in itself a test because a literal or formal understanding of symbols at once made it impossible to receive any further knowledge.

"Symbols were divided into the fundamental and the subordinate; the first included the principles of separate domains of knowledge; the second expressed the essential nature of phenomena in their relation to unity.

"Among the formulas giving a summary of the content of many symbols there was one which had a particular significance, namely the formula 'As above, so below,' from the 'Emerald Tablets of Hermes Trismegistus.' This formula stated that all the laws of the cosmos could be found in the atom or in any other phenomenon which exists as something completed according to certain laws. This same meaning was contained in the analogy drawn between the microcosm—man, and the macrocosm— the universe. The fundamental laws of triads and octaves penetrate everything and should be studied simultaneously both in the world and in man. But in relation to himself man is a nearer and a more accessible object of study and knowledge than the world of phenomena outside him. Therefore, in striving towards a knowledge of the universe, man should begin with the study of himself and with the realization of the fundamental laws within him.

"From this point of view another formula. Know thyself, is full of particularly deep meaning and is one of the symbols leading to the knowledge of truth. The study of the world and the study of man will assist one another. In studying the world and its laws a man studies himself, and in studying himself he studies the world. In this sense every symbol teaches us something about ourselves.
[...]

"The transmission of the meaning of symbols to a man who has not reached an understanding of them in himself is impossible. This sounds like a paradox, but the meaning of a symbol and the disclosure of its essence can only be given to, and can only be understood by, one who, so to speak, already knows what is comprised in this symbol. And then a symbol becomes for him a synthesis of his knowledge and serves him for the expression and transmission of his knowledge just as it served the man who constructed it. [...]

"In Western systems of occultism there is a method known by the name of 'theosophical addition,' that is, the definition of numbers consisting of two or more digits by the sum of those digits. To people who do not understand the symbolism of numbers this method of synthesizing numbers seems to be absolutely arbitrary and to lead nowhere. But for a man who understands the unity of everything existing and who has the key to this unity the method of theosophical addition has a profound meaning, for it resolves all diversity into the fundamental laws which govern it and which are expressed in the numbers 1 to 10.

"As was mentioned earlier, in symbology, as represented, numbers are connected with definite geometrical figures, and are mutually complementary one to another. In the Cabala a symbology of letters is also used and in combination with the symbology of letters a symbology of words. A combination of the four methods of symbolism by numbers, geometrical figures, letters, and words, gives a complicated but more perfect method.

"Then there exists also a symbology of magic, a symbology of alchemy, and a symbology of astrology as well as the system of the symbols of the Tarot which unites them into one whole.

"Each one of these systems can serve as a means for transmitting the idea of unity. But in the hands of the incompetent and the ignorant, however full of good intentions, the same symbol becomes an 'instrument of delusion.' The reason for this consists in the fact that a symbol can never be taken in a final and definite meaning. In expressing the laws of the unity of endless diversity a symbol itself possesses an endless number of aspects from which it can be examined and it demands from a man approaching it the ability to see it simultaneously from different points of view.

Symbols which are transposed into the words of ordinary language become rigid in them, they grow dim and very easily become 'their own opposites,' confining the meaning within narrow dogmatic frames, without giving it even the very relative freedom of a logical examination of a subject. The cause of this is in the literal understanding of symbols, in attributing to a symbol a single meaning.

The truth is again veiled by an outer covering of lies and to discover it requires immense efforts of negation in which the idea of the symbol itself is lost.

It is well known what delusions have arisen from the symbols of religion, of alchemy, and particularly of magic, in those who have taken them literally and only in one meaning.

"At the same time the right understanding of symbols cannot lead to dispute. It deepens knowledge, and it cannot remain theoretical because it intensifies the striving towards real results, towards the union of knowledge and being, that is, to Great Doing. Pure knowledge cannot be transmitted, but by being expressed in symbols it is covered by them as by a veil, although at the same time for those who desire and who know how to look this veil becomes transparent.

"And in this sense it is possible to speak of the symbolism of speech although this symbolism is not understood by everyone. To understand the inner meaning of what is said is possible only on a certain level of development and when accompanied by the corresponding efforts and state of the listener.

But on hearing things which are new for him, instead of making efforts to understand them, a man begins to dispute them, or refute them, maintaining against them an opinion which he considers to be right and which as a rule has no relation whatever to them. In this way he loses all chance of acquiring anything new.

To be able to understand speech when it becomes symbolical it is essential to have learned before and to know already how to listen. Any attempt to understand literally, where speech deals with objective knowledge and with the union of diversity and unity, is doomed to failure beforehand and leads in most cases to further delusions. [...]

"If we could connect the centers of our ordinary consciousness with the higher thinking center deliberately and at will, it would be of no use to us whatever in our present general state.

In most cases where accidental contact with the higher thinking center takes place a man becomes unconscious. The mind refuses to take in the flood of thoughts, emotions, images, and ideas which suddenly burst into it. And instead of a vivid thought, or a vivid emotion, there results, on the contrary, a complete blank, a state of unconsciousness. The memory retains only the first moment when the flood rushed in on the mind and the last moment when the flood was receding and consciousness returned.

But even these moments are so full of unusual shades and colors that there is nothing with which to compare them among the ordinary sensations of life.

This is usually all that remains from so-called 'mystical' and 'ecstatic' experiences, which represent a temporary connection with a higher center.

Only very seldom does it happen that a mind which has been better prepared succeeds in grasping and remembering something of what was felt and understood at the moment of ecstasy. But even in these cases the thinking, the moving, and the emotional centers remember and transmit everything in their own way, translate absolutely new and never previously experienced sensations into the language of usual everyday sensations, transmit in worldly three-dimensional forms things which pass completely beyond the limits of worldly measurements; in this way, of course, they entirely distort every trace of what remains in the memory of these unusual experiences.

Our ordinary centers, in transmitting the impressions of the higher centers, may be compared to a blind man speaking of colors, or to a deaf man speaking of music.

"In order to obtain a correct and permanent connection between the lower and the higher centers, it is necessary to regulate and quicken the work of the lower centers.

"Moreover, as has been already said, lower centers work in a wrong way, for very often, instead of their own proper functions, one or another of them takes upon itself the work of other centers. This considerably reduces the speed of the general work of the machine and makes acceleration of the work of the centers very difficult.

Thus in order to regulate and accelerate the work of the lower centers, the primary object must consist in freeing each center from work foreign and unnatural to it, and in bringing it back to its own work which it can do better than any other center. [...]

"In order to regulate and balance the work of the three centers whose functions constitute our life, it is necessary to learn to economize the energy produced by our organism, not to waste this energy on unnecessary functions, and to save it for that activity which will gradually connect the lower centers with the higher.

"All that has been said before about work on oneself, about the formation of inner unity and of the transition from the level of man number one, number two, and number three to the level of man number four and further, pursues one and the same aim.

What is called according to one terminology the 'astral body,' is called in another terminology the 'higher emotional center,' although the difference here does not lie in the terminology alone. These are, to speak more correctly, different aspects of the next stage of man's evolution.

It can be said that the 'astral body' is necessary for the complete and proper functioning of the 'higher emotional center' in unison with the lower. Or it can be said that the 'higher emotional center' is necessary for the work of the 'astral body.'

"The 'mental body' corresponds to the 'higher thinking center.' It would be wrong to say that they are one and the same thing. But one requires the other, one cannot exist without the other, one is the expression of certain sides and functions of the other.

"The fourth body requires the complete and harmonious working of all centers; and it implies, or is the expression of, complete control over this working. [...]

"'New birth,' of which we have spoken before, depends as much upon sex energy as do physical birth and the propagation of species.

"'Hydrogen' si 12 is the 'hydrogen' which represents the final product of the transformation of food in the human organism. This is the matter with which sex works and which sex manufactures. It is 'seed' or 'fruit.'

"'Hydrogen' si 12 can pass into do of the next octave with the help of an 'additional shock.' But this 'shock' can be of a dual nature and different octaves can begin, one outside the organism which has produced si, and the other in the organism itself.

The union of male and female si 12 and all that accompanies it constitutes the 'shock' of the first kind and the new octave begun with its help develops independently as a new organism or a new life.

"This is the normal and natural way to use the energy of si 12.

But in the same organism there is a further possibility. And this is the possibility of creating a new life within the actual organism, in which the si 12 has been manufactured, without the union of the two principles, the male and the female.

A new octave then develops within the organism, not outside it

This is the birth of the 'astral body.'

You must understand that the 'astral body' is born of the same material, of the same matter, as the physical body, only the process is different.

The whole of the physical body, all its cells, are, so to speak, permeated by emanations of the matter si 12. And when they have become sufficiently saturated the matter si 12 begins to crystallize. The crystallization of this matter constitutes the formation of the 'astral body.'

"The transition of matter si 12 into emanations and the gradual saturation of the whole organism by it is what alchemy calls 'transmutation' or transformation. It is first this transformation of the physical body into the astral that alchemy called the transformation of the 'coarse' into the 'fine' or the transformation of base metals into gold.

"Completed transmutation, that is to say, the formation of the 'astral body,' is possible only in a healthy, normally functioning organism. In a sick, or a perverted, or a crippled organism, no transmutation is possible." [...]

"Man, in the normal state natural to him, is taken as a duality. He consists entirely of dualities or 'pairs of opposites.' All man's sensations, impressions, feelings, thoughts, are divided into positive and negative, useful and harmful, necessary and unnecessary, good and bad, pleasant and unpleasant. The work of centers proceeds under the sign of this division. Thoughts oppose feelings. Moving impulses oppose instinctive craving for quiet. This is the duality in which proceed all the perceptions, all the reactions, the whole life of man. Any man who observes himself, however little, can see this duality in himself.

"But this duality would seem to alternate; what is victor today is the vanquished tomorrow; what guides us today becomes secondary and subordinate tomorrow. And everything is equally mechanical, equally independent of will, and leads equally to no aim of any kind. The understanding of duality in oneself begins with the realization of mechanicalness and the realization of the difference between what is mechanical and what is conscious. This understanding must be preceded by the destruction of the self-deceit in which a man lives who considers even his most mechanical actions to be volitional and conscious and himself to be single and whole.

"When self-deceit is destroyed and a man begins to see the difference between the mechanical and the conscious in himself, there begins a struggle for the realization of consciousness in life and for the subordination of the mechanical to the conscious.

[The alchemical "battle" and "heating of the crucible."]

For this purpose a man begins with endeavors to set a definite decision, coming from conscious motives, against mechanical processes proceeding according to the laws of duality. The creation of a permanent third principle is for man the transformation of the duality into the trinity.

"Strengthening this decision and bringing it constantly and infallibly into all those events where formerly accidental neutralizing 'shocks' used to act and give accidental results, gives a permanent line of results in time and is the transformation of trinity into quaternity.

The next stage, the transformation of quaternity into quinternity and the construction of the pentagram has not one but many different meanings even in relation to man. And of these is learned, first of all, one, which is the most beyond doubt, relating to the work of centers.

"The development of the human machine and the enrichment of being begins with a new and unaccustomed functioning of this machine.

We know that a man has five centers: the thinking, the emotional, the moving, the instinctive, and the sex. The predominant development of any one center at the expense of the others produces an extremely one-sided type of man, incapable of further development.

But if a man brings the work of the five centers within him into harmonious accord, he then 'locks the pentagram within him' and becomes a finished type of the physically perfect man.

The full and proper functioning of five centers brings them into union with the higher centers which introduce the missing principle and put man into direct and permanent connection with objective consciousness and objective knowledge.

"And then man becomes the six-pointed star, that is, by becoming locked within a circle of life independent and complete in itself, he becomes isolated from foreign influences or accidental shocks; he embodies in himself the Seal of Solomon.
I have discussed all of this at great length in my book "The Secret History of The World." Perhaps you would like to pick up a copy and read it. After you have read it, if you still want to discuss, come back and we'll do it then.
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

Laura - thank you so, so much for taking the time and trouble to post this excerpt from Gurdjieff.

A few thoughts arise in me from reading the above excerpt:

It seems that Gurdjieff is describing an inner use of sexual energy. My thought about this is that when one is feeling sexually aroused, to allow the sexual energy to flow around the body, to literally permeate the cells of the organism. In my experience sexual arousal does not depend on external stimuli, but can happen automatically – it just ‘happens’, so to speak. However, it’s not always so easy to resist the lure of sexual expression, and to allow the energy to flow unhindered through the body. We are programmed to think that sexual energy should be expressed – pleasure for the self. Resisting the programming becomes an inner battle, and perhaps is a conscious shock to help the crystallisation of matter si 12.
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

Laura said:
mopiet, you say you plan to write an article. That's really too bad since it is obvious that you cannot possibly know anything about the subject.

Why do I say that?

Because you have not knowledge of, or control over yourself; you have no BEing.
So much for the Forum-rule

"don't maliciously harass people, or flame them, or really make them want to flame you."
But I guess you won't be warned, or banned of course, because if I look at the language alone you are allowed to use to flame on this Forum, it is clear that this Forum spells:

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
It seems quite obvious that any individual who wishes to pursue esoteric studies ought to have a clean and fully functional and most of all HEALTHY psyche before he goes wandering off into unknown realms. After all, if your psychological state is such that you cannot deal effectively with your everyday life, how can you possibly trust such a psychological state not to mislead you in studies where you have fewer solid landmarks or feedback mechanisms to guide you? And so, the very FIRST order of business in any esoteric work is to get psychologically healthy.
I've been reading a lot of posts on this Forum, and that seems to be really your thing: to call people psychologically unhealthy.

Now, I'm not going to suggest that you are psychologically unhealthy (in spite of that old Lichtenberg-principle 'it's the psychopath who discerns psychopaths all the time'), but having a different opinion than you is obviously most of the time enough to be branded a psychopath by you.

There is an old law in pchychology, Laura, looking at your many aggressive posts on this Forum: agression spells fear and/or frustration.

That's basically what the Gurdjieff "self-remembering" and Mouravieff "introspection" and Castaneda "recapitulation" is all about - though there is really more to it than that - it is a TRUE alchemy, for which we have received proof. Let me repeat that slowly: we have proof that it works.
Alchemy is about physical immortality. Not that Gurdjieff knew that, but I do.

I know why Gurdjieff is your friend by the way. Because one can make anything of his bubbles. And that's exaclty what you need.

So, before you write anything else, show me your proof that what you know can actually change your life, your reality in some significant way.
You are fundamentally clueless about alchemy. Again, it is about physical immortality.

Meanwhile, quoting Gurdjieff, I think that I'm going to tell you what true alchemy is and how it works. I do not expect you to understand it...
You can't seem to finish a sentence without at least trying to humiliate people who.... only disagree with you.

"Our inner psychic processes (our inner alchemy).
That is not alchemy.

I have discussed all of this at great length in my book "The Secret History of The World." Perhaps you would like to pick up a copy and read it. After you have read it, if you still want to discuss, come back and we'll do it then.
I'm in baked noodles, am I not? And the only criterium here seems to be this:

The world is full of whackos and nearly all of them are in cyberspace cruising for forums to invade and dominate with their delusions. Instead of deleting them, we will move such threads here for your entertainment.
But even if I were not in 'baked noodles', I would certainly not take the effort to read books on alchemy by writers who don't even understand the first principles of alchemy. Principles serving physical immortality.

Here is some real alchemy [from Forbidden Letters part 2, section 12]:

September 4 1986 (little after midnight 'silentio noctis' ( in the silence of the night): resurrection.


a) Our man is on the floor on his back. He had his eyes closed during the whole resurrection. A 'thread' (very thin) is closing around his neck. The head is decapitated by that 'thread'.


b) The stone is produced about where the liver is. The stone ignites the Kundalini fire (the fire can actually be heard) and starts to move about, increasingly violently. Fire getting stronger. Arms and legs break into pieces.


c) The snake is driven out. Our friend doesn't know where it went. Up the spine, but after that: no clue. (Into the earth?)


d) The wheel starts to spin and is raised to the forehead.


e) One starts to descend into the earth. After 2 minutes our man 'fell asleep' or passed out in another hypnagogic way. Hypnagogic, because he couldn't remember that moment the morning after. If you lose consciousness you remember. So he 'fell asleep'.


f) 10.30 in the morning. He woke up. Coccyx and back of the head firmly attached to the floor. As said before, it took him about 30 minutes to free himself.


g) September 5 1986 : the top-chakra opens.
And here is some more[Rice article on the Letters]:

27.

'The body is the vessel.' [Musing]




28.

'The Scarab was beheaded and dismembered.' [Papyri Graecae Magicae, II]




29.

'The scarab beetle symbolized rebirth and immortality in the Temple of Set.' [Musing]




30.

'Zosimus says that he would like to make plain a vision that he has seen of a man who was dead, whose body was yet all white like a salt, and whose limbs were divided and his head was of fine gold, but seperated from the body.' [Jung]




31.

'The golden head referred originally to the head of Osiris who is described in a Greek text as headless. The Greek alchemists styled themselves 'Children of the Golden Head'.' [Jung]





32.

'The head is decapitated. (...) Arms and legs (of the gay man) break into pieces (in the Kundalini fire).' [The Paris 4]




33.

'Sterckx points to the explicit assimilation of the severed head to the body of Christ.'
[Witchard Goetinck]



34.

'We shall consider the head as being, what Pierre Lambrechts called, 'un dieu sans corps' (a god without a body). [Witchard Goetinck]




35.

'It is the microcosmic, subtle head, interwoven in the head of flesh, that is taken off and replaced after the (kundalini) fire by a new subtle head (the Christ).' [The Paris 4]




36.

'There are various accounts from the ancient world of the god being dismembered. Osiris is the prototype. He was cut up into fourteen pieces (...) to allow for his entry into matter.'
[Kuhn] (italics by me)



37.

'The greatest truth that can be told to mortals is, that their bodies are the gestating womb of a God.' [Kuhn]
But I wouldn't be surprised if this is all too revealing and, what's more, to threatening to your book Secret History, that you, or somebody else, will find excuses to kill this thread, or to ban me. Even in 'baked noodles'. Because hey, we can't allow somebody to demonstrate (for everybody to see!!!!) that Laura Knight-Jadczyk followed a professional bubbleblower [Gurdjieff] most of her life, can we now?

And another thing, Mrs. Jadczyck [knowing that this will never come from one of your groupies], I noticed that you even bash Forum-members who are already banned, in other words: who can't defend themselves anymore. Have some shame woman.
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

j0da said:
mopiet said:
No offense (and hoping not to press to many buttons here) but this is by far the funniest Forum I've ever visited.
No offense taken. Could you specify what makes our forum funny?
Your post, given in bolds by me.

You don't play the "ridicule" trick, do you?
No. Your mistress is:

...you can disabuse yourself of these silly notions.
mopiet said:
And yes, questions that can be answered by people themselves if only they would do their reading are ignored.
I was refering to questions that can be answered by people themselves. It is not the firts time, jOda, that you have difficulties reading.

mopiet said:
I mean, everybody should clean up their own mess.
That's correct, however, we clean our own mess in a specific way, as outlined in Forum Rules section. Posting on this forum requires registration, thus becoming forum member. You are forum member now, so you are expected to act accordingly.
No, you want me to shut up. And that's something different.

mopiet said:
The problem is that Thompson's info is not relevant to the article. Whether the Old Testament is history, or not, is not important. Hume simply demonstrated that alchemy travelled with the text.
guide said:
9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
Talking about the funniest forum I've ever been. Because it is you who is playing dumb here.

You haven't adressed christx11 questions, while he made quite a few good points. Why is that, hmm?
Well, because this thread wasn't started to discuss me and there is an awefull lot of mess on top in christx11's post. Get it, got it? Good!

guide said:
6. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.
I nowhere hit and ran. Laura often does that, but I didn't.
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

hkoehli said:
mopiet said:
Laura, could it be then that you only read the introduction to the Hume-article?
Don't you get it? The Old Testament is a fraud. Trying to find great truths in it is like trying trying to find a foreskin in a synagogue.
If I would write 'Don't you get it?' (implying that somebody is stupid) somebody would immediately come in and remind me of the Forum-rules. You're all so respectable! ;)
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

Physical immortality... hmmm...

Q: (L) Who created the Lizzies?
A: Ormethion.
Q: (L) And who is this individual?
A: Thought center.
Q: (L) Located where?
A: Everywhere.
[...]

Q: Is Ormethion who the Lizzies worship?
A: Close.
Q: Who do they worship? What do they call their god?
A: Physical universe.
Q: The physical universe is their god?
A: Yes.
"Another group of functions that must be accorded a similar consideration are the dynamic or "hormic" functions (from the Greek word "orme" meaning tendency or impulse). This group includes the instincts, tendencies, impulses, desires and aspirations, in fact all that impels to action. Desire has been included among these hormic activities, though desire is generally conceived in terms of only, or at least principally, its subjective aspect desire as something one feels, an emotion one has. But this is solely its subjective aspect; in reality desire is or has a dynamic energy that impels to action. It has been said of it that it is a primordial tendency, the attractive impulse towards the not-self. The Dictionary of Psychogical and Psychoanalytical Terms by H. and E. English (New York, Longmans Green, 1958), an excellent compilation of marked objectivity, defines desire as something active to which the terms "want", "need", "craving" to possess something are applied. The Lexique de Philosophic by A. Bertrand comments: "According to Spinoza, desire is the fundamental tendency to persist in being.""
--Jung and Psychosynthesis - Roberto Assagioli
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

Okay, so you don't get it. Thompson's info is relevant. I know it will be next to impossible to break the hold you have on your overvalued ideas and long-held stereotypes of reasoning, but, again: the idea of finding "alchemy" in the OT is like looking back at PNAC in 1500 years and proclaiming to find the secrets of transcendental meditation.
Of course, it is possible that some of the stories in the bible are vague reminiscences of earlier tales with some symbolic (and/or historical) meaning...
Ah! It is?

But I don't think that's what you're talking about.
You mean Hume? Well, that's exactly what he is talking about. Not about prsumed historical meaning, but alchemical meaning. But, to use your own words, you don't get that.

Maybe you'll surprise me with your article? I'm looking forward to it.
The Hume-article has enough surprise for you, I'm sure. Just start spelling it.
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

Laura, do you remember me telling you that you are fundamentally clueless about alchemy.

Well, you couldn't demonstrate that more drastically than with this quote:

Q: Is Ormethion who the Lizzies worship?
A: Close.
Q: Who do they worship? What do they call their god?
A: Physical universe.
Q: The physical universe is their god?
A: Yes.
Because the alchemist does not worship anything physical. On the contrary. He is well aware of the fact that the physos is merely projection of his microcosm. Meaning that not the microcosm, as the world thinks, is a reflection of the macrocosm, but, instead, the macro a reflection of the micro.

"nihil extra corpus et nihil post mortem."
[saying in Alchemy / "There is nothing outside the body and nothing after death."]
[Taken from the John Fox article (Introduction) on the Forbidden Letters]

The physical immortality is there to preserve the alchemist. After all, nihil post mortem. Because what good is a thing destroyed?

"Woe the soul that depends on the flesh, and woe the flesh hat depends on the soul. [Gospel of Thomas].
;)

P.S.
Not that Gurdjieff knew anything about this. But you do now!
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

Certainly true alchemist do not worship anything. It is only the puffers that think that physical immortality is the objective. It isn't. The result of the complete transformation is a bi-density body that gradually moves into 4th density and gives one mastery over space and time. Yet, even at 4th density one is not immortal.

The alchemists tell us:

When a candidate has developed virtue and integrity acceptable to the adepts, they will appear to him and reveal those parts of the secret processes which cannot be discovered without such help.

Those who cannot progress to a certain point with their own intelligence are not qualified to be entrusted with the secrets which can subject to their will the elemental forces of Nature.
and

The study and contemplation of the metaphorical "Philosopher's Stone" along with the chemical work was a necessary component to elevate the mind and prepare the soul for transmutation.
and

"By invigorating the Organs the Soul uses for communicating with exterior objects, the Soul must a acquire greater powers not only for conception but also for retention, and therefore if we wish to obtain still more knowledge, the organs and secret springs of physical life must be wonderfully strengthened and invigorated.
and

"The Soul must acquire new powers for conceiving and retaining...

"That this has not been the case with all possessors, was their own fault, as they contented themselves merely with the Transmutation of Metals...

For know this of a truth, whosoever abuseth this tincture and lives not exemplarly, purely, and devoutly before men he shall lose this benefit, and scarce any hope will there be left ever to recover it afterwards....
and

"…those who study only the material elements can at best discover only half the mystery...
and

"…alchemy is a mystery in three worlds - the divine, the human and the elemental... alchemy in the hands of the profane becomes perverted..."
and

"Man's quest for gold (and immortality0 is often his undoing, for he mistakes the alchemical processes, believing them to be purely material. He does not realize that the Philosopher's Gold, the Philosopher's Stone, and the Philosopher's Medicine exist in each of the four worlds and that the consummation of the experiment cannot be realized until it is successfully carried on in four worlds simultaneously according to one formula.

"Furthermore, one of the constituents of the alchemical formula exists only within the nature of man himself, without which his chemicals will not combine, and though he spend his life and fortune in chemical experimentation, he will not produce the desired end...

"The subtle element … comes out of the nature of the illuminated and regenerated alchemist..

"He must have the magnetic power to attract and coagulate invisible astral elements."
Now, I have met and worked with a number of real alchemists here in France. A transmutation of metals was performed in my kitchen fireplace last year with about 25 people present. I have shared with these individuals printed copies of the material you are promoting and, without exception, they read it, laugh and point out that such nonsense is useful because it separates the wheat from the chaff. There is an element inside each person that magnetizes them to either the way up, or the way down, as the Sufis refer to it.

You should also note this carefully:

In order to respect the principle of hermetism adopted by the Tradition, we must understand that esoteric teachings are given in a sibylline form.

St Isaac the Syrian points out that: The Holy Scriptures say many things by using words in a different sense from their original meaning. Sometimes bodily attributes are applied to the soul, and conversely, attributes of the soul are applied to the body. The Scriptures do not make any distinction here. However, enlightened men understand.
Finally, I wouldn't say that your efforts will have NO results. As Gurdjieff wrote:

"Fusion, inner unity, is obtained by means of 'friction,' by the struggle between 'yes' and 'no' in man. If a man lives without inner struggle, if everything happens in him without opposition, if he goes wherever he is drawn or wherever the wind blows, he will remain such as he is. But if a struggle begins in him, and particularly if there is a definite line in this struggle, then, gradually, permanent traits begin to form themselves, he begins to 'crystallize.'

But crystallization is possible on a right foundation and it is possible on a wrong foundation.

'Friction,' the struggle between 'yes' and 'no,' can easily take place on a wrong foundation. For instance, a fanatical belief in some or other idea, or the 'fear of sin,' can evoke a terribly intense struggle between 'yes' and 'no,' and a man may crystallize on these foundations. But this would be a wrong, incomplete crystallization. Such a man will not possess the possibility of further development. In order to make further development possible he must be melted down again, and this can be accomplished only through terrible suffering.

"Crystallization is possible on any foundation.

Take for example a brigand, a really good, genuine brigand. I knew such brigands in the Caucasus. He will stand with a rifle behind a stone by the roadside for eight hours without stirring. Could you do this? All the time, mind you, a struggle is going on in him. He is thirsty and hot, and flies are biting him; but he stands still.

Another is a monk; he is afraid of the devil; all night long he beats his head on the floor and prays. Thus crystallization is achieved. In such ways people can generate in themselves an enormous inner strength; they can endure torture; they can get what they want. This means that there is now in them something solid, something permanent.

Such people can become immortal. But what is the good of it? A man of this kind becomes an 'immortal thing,' although a certain amount of consciousness is sometimes preserved in him. But even this, it must be remembered, occurs very rarely."
It is clear that you have selected your path according to your inner lights. This forum is not about that path. It is about a different one that you cannot comprehend because the magnetics are not inside you that would enable you to see it.

So, that being said, you are invited to join a forum that will welcome your "fantastic information" and will lionize you as you so richly deserve.
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

muppet said:
Because the alchemist does not worship anything physical. On the contrary. He is well aware of the fact that the physos is merely projection of his microcosm. Meaning that not the microcosm, as the world thinks, is a reflection of the macrocosm, but, instead, the macro a reflection of the micro.
Yeah, this is a pretty clear description of the downward path. Projecting the subjective inner world onto the outer world rather than clearing the inner world of subjective buffers in order to align oneself with objective reality.

He even seems to be making decent progress, seeing as he is able to come right on in here and force his delusions on us with an unshakable sense of entitlement and not the least bit of self-doubt or embarrassment.

However, his 'alchemy' is nothing more than basic mainstream developmental psychology dressed up in mystical sounding words.

Maslow postulated that needs are arranged in a hierarchy in terms of their potency. Although all needs are instinctive, some are more powerful than others. The lower the need is in the pyramid, the more powerful it is. The higher the need is in the pyramid, the weaker and more distinctly human it is. The lower, or basic, needs on the pyramid are similar to those possessed by non-human animals, but only humans possess the higher needs.

The first four layers of the pyramid are what Maslow called "deficiency needs" or "D-needs:" the individual does not feel anything if they are met, but feels anxious if they are not met. Needs beyond the D-needs are "growth needs," "being values," or "B-needs." When fulfilled, they do not go away; rather, they motivate further.

The base of the pyramid is formed by the physiological needs, including the biological requirements for food, water, air, and sleep.

Once the physiological needs are met, an individual can concentrate on the second level, the need for safety and security. Included here are the needs for structure, order, security, and predictability.

The third level is the need for love and belonging. Included here are the needs for friends and companions, a supportive family, identification with a group, and an intimate relationship.

The fourth level is the esteem needs. This group of needs requires both recognition from other people that results in feelings of prestige, acceptance, and status, and self-esteem that results in feelings of adequacy, competence, and confidence. Lack of satisfaction of the esteem needs results in discouragement and feelings of inferiority.

Finally, self-actualization sits at the apex of the original pyramid.
For people on the downward path, development means nothing more than insuring physical survival while finding ways to feel good about themselves.

Contrast this approach with positive disintegration, a developmental method for souled people who wish to be more than immortal flesh:

Dabrowski observed that most people live their lives in a state of "primitive integration" largely guided by biological impulses ("first factor") and/or by uncritical endorsement and adherence to social convention ("second factor"). He called this initial integration Level I. Dabrowski observed that at this level, there is no true individual expression of the autonomous human self. Individual expression at Level I is influenced and constrained by the two factors. The first factor channels energy and talents toward accomplishing self-serving goals that reflect the lower instincts and biological ego — its primary focus is on survival and self-advancement...

The second factor, the social environment (milieu) and peer pressure constrains individual expression and creativity by encouraging a group view of life and discouraging unique thought and expression. The second factor externalizes values and mores. Social forces shape expectations, behavior and one's talents and creativity are funneled into forms that follow and support the existing social milieu. ...Individual reactions are not unique, they are based upon social contexts...

Dabrowski felt that our society was largely influenced by these lower two factors and could be characterized as operating at Level I. For example, our emphasis on corporate success ("a dog eat dog mentality") means that many CEOs operate on the basis of first factor — they will quickly sacrifice another to enhance their own advancement. As well, our educational and political systems are self promoting and discourage real examination or individual autonomy — the second factor.

Dabrowski also described a group of people who display a different course: an individualized developmental pathway. These people break away from an automatic, rote, socialized view of life (which Dabrowski called negative adjustment) and move into and through a series of personal disintegrations. Dabrowski saw these disintegrations as a key element in the overall developmental process. Crises challenge our status quo and cause us to review our self, ideas, values, thoughts, ideals, etc. If development continues, one goes on to develop an individualized, conscious and critically evaluated hierarchical value structure (called positive adjustment). This hierarchy of values acts as a benchmark by which all things are now seen, and the higher values in our internal hierarchy come to direct our behavior (no longer based on external social mores). These higher, individual values characterize an eventual second integration reflecting individual autonomy and for Dabrowski, marking the arrival of true human personality. At this level, each person develops his or her own vision of how life ought to be and lives it. This higher level is associated with strong individual approaches to problem solving and creativity. One's talents and creativity are applied in the service of these higher individual values and visions of how life could be - how the world ought to be. The person expresses his or her "new" autonomous personality energetically through action, art, social change and so on.

...Advanced development is often seen in people who exhibit strong developmental potential. Developmental potential represents a constellation of genetic features, expressed and mediated through environmental interaction. Three major aspects form DP: overexcitability (OE), specific abilities and talents, and a strong drive toward autonomous growth, a feature Dabrowski called the "third factor."

The most evident and perhaps most fundamental aspect of developmental potential is overexcitability (OE), a heightened physiological experience of stimuli resulting from increased neuronal sensitivities. The greater the OE, the more intense are the day-to-day experiences of life. Dabrowski outlined five forms of OE: psychomotor, sensual, imaginational, intellectual and emotional. These overexcitabilities, especially the latter three, often cause a person to experience daily life more intensely and to feel the extremes of the joys and sorrows of life profoundly. Dabrowski studied human exemplars and found that heightened overexcitability was a key part of their developmental and life experience. These people are steered and driven by their value "rudder", their sense of emotional OE. Combined with imaginational and intellectual OE, these people have a powerful perception of the world.

...Although based in the nervous system, overexcitabilities come to be expressed psychologically through the development of structures that reflect the emerging autonomous self. The most important of these conceptualizations are dynamisms: biological or mental forces that control behavior and its development. "Instincts, drives and intellectual processes combined with emotions are dynamisms" (Dabrowski 1972, 294). With advanced development, dynamisms increasingly reflect movement toward autonomy.

The second arm of developmental potential, specific abilities and talents, tends to serve the person's developmental level. As outlined, people at lower levels use talents to support egocentric goals or to climb the social and corporate ladders. At higher levels, specific talents and abilities become an important force as they are channeled by the person's value hierarchy into expressing and achieving the person's vision of his or her ideal personality and his or her view of how the world ought to be.

The third aspect of developmental potential, the third factor, is a drive toward individual growth and autonomy. The third factor is important as it applies one's talents and creativity toward autonomous expression, and second, it provides motivation to strive for more and to try to imagine and achieve goals currently beyond one's grasp.

...Dabrowski called OE "a tragic gift" to reflect that the road of the person with strong OE is not a smooth or easy one. Potentials to experience great highs are also potentials to experience great lows. Similarly, potentials to express great creativity hold the likelihood of experiencing a great deal of personal conflict and stress. This stress both drives development and is a result of developmental conflicts, both intrapsychic and social. Suicide is a significant risk in the acute phases of this stress. The isolation often experienced by these people heightens the risk of self-harm.

Dabrowski advocated autopsychotherapy, educating the person about OEs and the disintegrative process to give him or her a context within which to understand their intense feelings and needs. This context is a positive and developmental one. Dabrowski suggested giving people support in their efforts to develop and find their own self-expression. To be out of step in today's world is encouraged and seen as a feature of the overall developmental journey. Social maladjustment is also encouraged, particularly when it is positive and based on individually thought-out values...

The Levels

The first and fifth levels are characterized by psychological integration, harmony and little inner conflict. There is little internal conflict at Level I because just about every behavior is justified — it is either good for the individual and therefore right or the individual's society endorses it and is just doing what he or she perceives to be what anyone else would and is supposed to do. At the highest level, there is no internal conflict because what a person does is always in accord with their own internal sense of values. Of course, there is often external conflict at both Levels I and V.

Levels II, III and IV describe various degrees and types of dis-integration and literal dis-ease.

Level I: Primary Integration

As outlined above, the first level is called primitive or primary integration. People at this level are often influenced primarily by either prominent first factor (heredity/impulse) and/or second factor (social environment) forces. The majority of people at Level I are integrated at the environmental or social level (Dabrowski called them average people); however, many also exhibit shades of both impulse and socialization. Dabrowski distinguished the two subgroups of Level I by degree: "the state of primary integration is a state contrary to mental health. A fairly high degree of primary integration is present in the average person; a very high degree of primary integration is present in the psychopath" (Dabrowski 1964, p. 121).

Level II: Unilevel Disintegration

The character of level II is reflected in its name: unilevel disintegration. The prominent feature of this level is an initial, brief and often intense crisis or series of crises. Crises are spontaneous and only occur on one level (and often involve only one dimension). These crises involve alternatives that may appear to be different but ultimately are on the same level.

Unilevel disintegration occurs during developmental crises...

Conflicts on the same level (horizontal) produce ambitendencies and ambivalences: the person is equally attracted by different but equivalent choices on the same level (ambitendencies) and is not able to decide what to do because he or she has no real preference between the choices (ambivalences). If developmental forces are strong enough, ultimately, the person is thrust into an existential crisis: one's social rationales no longer account for one's experiences and there are no alternative explanations. During this phase, existential despair is the predominant emotion. The resolution of this phase begins as individually chosen values begin to replace social mores that have been ingrained by rote and are integrated into a new hierarchy of personal values. These new values often conflict with the person's previous social values. Many of the status quo explanations for the "way things are," learned through education and from the social order, collapse under conscious, individual scrutiny. This causes more conflicts focused on the person's analysis of his or her own reactions to the world at large and of the behavior of self and others. Common behaviors and the ethics of the prevailing social order come to be seen as inadequate, wrong or hypocritical. ...these crises represent a strong potential for development toward personal growth and mental health. Using a positive definition, mental health reflects more than social conformity: it involves a careful, personal examination of the world and of one's values, leading to the development of an individual personality.

...The transition from Level II to Level III involves a fundamental shift that requires a phenomenal amount of energy. This period is the crossroads of development: from here one must either progress or regress. The struggle between Dabrowski's three factors reflects this transitional crisis: "Do I follow my instincts (first factor), my teachings (second factor) or my heart (third factor)?" The developmental answer is to transform one's lower instincts (automatic reactions like anger) into positive motivation, to resist rote and social answers, and to listen to one's inner sense of what one ought to do.

Level III: Spontaneous Multilevel Disintegration

Level III describes a new type of conflict: a vertical conflict between two alternatives that are not simply different, but that exist on different levels. One is literally higher and the other is lower in comparison. These vertical conflicts initially arise from involuntary perceptions of higher versus lower choices in life (because they are involuntary, Dabrowski called it spontaneous multilevel disintegration). You just look at something, maybe for the 1000th time, and it strikes you — you see this one thing differently and once you do, it changes things. You can no longer "go back and see it the way you did before." Dabrowski called this vertical dimension multilevelness...a gradual realization of the "possibility of the higher"...and of the subsequent contrasts between the higher and the lower in life. These vertical comparisons often illustrate the lower, actual behavior of a person in contrast to higher, imagined ideals and alternative idealized choices. Dabrowski believed that the authentic individual would choose the higher path as the clear and obvious one to follow (erasing the ambivalences and ambitendencies of unilevel conflicts). IF the person's actual behavior subsequently falls short of the ideal, internal disharmony and a drive to review and reconstruct one's life often follow. Multilevelness thus represents a new and powerful type of conflict, a conflict that is developmental...

...it becomes impossible to support positions that favor the lower course when higher goals can be identified (or imagined).

Level IV: Directed Multilevel Disintegration

In Level IV the person takes full control of his or her development. The involuntary spontaneous development of Level III is replaced by a deliberate, conscious and self-directed review of life from the multilevel perspective. This level marks the real emergence of the third factor, described by Dabrowski as an autonomous factor "of conscious choice (valuation) by which one affirms or rejects certain qualities in oneself and in one's environment" (Dabrowski 1972, p. 306). The person consciously reviews his or her existing belief system and tries to replace lower, automatic views and reactions with carefully thought out, examined and chosen ideals. These new values will increasingly be reflected in the person's behavior. Behavior becomes less reactive, less automatic and more deliberate as behavioral choices fall under the influence of the person's higher, chosen ideals.

...At the highest levels, "individuals of this kind feel responsible for the realization of justice and for the protection of others against harm and injustice. Their feelings of responsibility extend almost to everything" (Dabrowski 1973, p. 97). This perspective results from seeing life in relation to one's hierarchy of values (the multilevel view) and the subsequent appreciation of the potential of how life could be, and ought to be, lived. One's disagreements with the (lower level) world are expressed compassionately in doing what one can to help achieve the "ought."

Given their genuine (authentic) prosocial outlook, people achieving higher development also raise the level of their society. Prosocial here is not just support of the existing social order...prosocial is a genuine cultivation of social interactions based on higher values. These positions often conflict with the status quo of a lower society (positive maladjustment). In other words, to be maladjusted to a low-level society is a positive feature.

Level V: Secondary Integration

The fifth level displays an integrated and harmonious character, but one vastly different from that at the first level. At this highest level, one's behavior is guided by conscious, carefully weighed decisions based on an individualized and chosen hierarchy of personal values. Behavior conforms to this inner standard of how life ought to be lived and, thus, little inner conflict arises.
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

nf3 said:
(...)Projecting the subjective inner world onto the outer world rather than clearing the inner world of subjective buffers in order to align oneself with objective reality.

He even seems to be making decent progress, seeing as he is able to come right on in here and force his delusions on us with an unshakable sense of entitlement and not the least bit of self-doubt or embarrassment.

However, his 'alchemy' is nothing more than basic mainstream developmental psychology dressed up in mystical sounding words.(...)

For people on the downward path, development means nothing more than insuring physical survival while finding ways to feel good about themselves.
Since the decent progress that mopiet made, his mind is believing what he knows (instead of questioning as a result of new info). Everyone have their own path, as they would need to find out on their own time if it's wrong or right path. It's never fixed, no matter how long it would take us. No matter how much we know or think we know, there is always some back-up programming in ourselves that might stir our beliefs in what we know, imo.

mopiet said:
Laura, do you remember me telling you that you are fundamentally clueless about alchemy.
Your telling us, yes. What is about you that we should "accept" your approach? You made perceptual "attacks" only toward Laura because it seems that you strongly believe that she is wrong in her approach to "alchemy." We're interested in objective approach, not yours. fwiw.

Laura to mopiet

It is clear that you have selected your path according to your inner lights.
That is what your actions are telling us.

mopiet said:
I've been reading a lot of posts on this Forum, and that seems to be really your thing: to call people psychologically unhealthy.
I think we all are in some ways. That's what our understanding of inner alchemy and self-knowledge are all about. That is why, before we go on exploring the unknown realms, we would need to know ourselves. That is the basic, osit.
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

This thread is another great example of the psychological disposition of the world at large.

From the get go someone makes a disingenuous first post to this board with an intent that they think no one is able to see. The first poster (mopiet in this case) throws out the bait. It is even pointed out by some posters that they suspect this is what this person is doing. First Poster ignores and selectively responds to only what they want to, as to vector and maintain what they want and need so deeply as their goal. First Poster does not even care if others can see through it. First Poster is superior and is waiting for the moment to throw down the gauntlet and demonstrate their greatness and school all the dummies and fools on the board. And specifically their target. In this case mopiet's target from the get go was Laura, as often is the case. First Poster (mopiet) lays in wait hoping to draw the target into the thread so all can be taught of First Poster's great knowledge and the target (Laura) can be taken on and defeated.

Psychology isn't important. We all have it wrong. We should be seeking the immortal physical body. Psychology, mind, conscience, and consciousness, isn't important. We should all seek the immortal physical. Mantra, Mantra, Mantra!!!

Laura, you and SOTT and QFG must be doing something right. If we all have it wrong and are all just little dummies as mopiet and others would like to teach us, then why do they care? Why do they bother? If we are wrong, what threat is that to their greatness and superior knowledge? It would in fact be only to their benefit that we were going down a wrong path as that would only maintain their perceived superiority and that is precisely what mopiet and others are telling us they are (they have the real scoop, the superior knowledge, the real truth). Why can they not stand that someone does not want to eat the fruit that they are offering? Why does that drive these types looney?

Me thinks this work really bothers someone.

Psychology indeed!
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

ChristX11 said:
Me thinks this work really bothers someone.
Yes, that has been clear from the beginning. That's why "Frank" was sent... that's why Vincent Bridges and Storm Bear Williams are full-time attack bots (which means they are paid to do what they do) with a whole back-up crew that they may not even be aware of (don't "need to know") doing regular sniping.

Because I am a woman, many people do not take me seriously at all. They react emotionally to that fact, and feel that they must "smash" me or "put me in my place" or somehow reduce me to tears to prove that they are so "manly" and superior.

As I recently wrote to someone else, sometimes I feel like a "fast gun" who has to be constantly challenged by every other fast gun who comes into town. And even moreso because, shudder!, women most definitely must NOT be fast guns!

As I noted then, I am not fast because I practiced to engage in any kind of contest with anyone... I am fast because I have been practicing on sacred cows that have threatened me and others and what I really need is not to have to defend my fastness, but some help with those damn cows!

It reminds me of Annie Oakley who became such a fantastic shot because her father was dead and feeding the family depended on her aim and efficiency. Bullets were scarce, and if she missed - her family went hungry. She was highly motivated to be both fast and accurate - out of her "female nurturing" orientation! If it had been just for the sake of competition, she might not have been so motivated because competition is not generally part of the female archetype. Cooperation for the survival of others is, however.

And that's what drives me.

I've studied the stuff that people like mopiet follow and the bottom line question I always test everything by is: Do I trust this enough to recommend it to my beloved children? If it doesn't pass that test, you can bet that I won't. And you can also bet that what is accepted or rejected is tested the same way. Is it the TRUEST thing I can find to give my children?

Because, after all, I do expect to be gone from this planet some day and they must carry on. Let me give them the best I can, and let me work as hard as I can so that this best IS the best.
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

To add christx11's note, our "Baked Noodles" can also be considered our "training" ground. The "baked" members really wanted to play games with us, which is all there is to it for them...but for us, we would learn from them by watching (or reading) our reactions to their posts/games. Should we give in to their games, should we not, etc.? It's really how we would respond ("acting in favor of your destiny").

Same games, just different perceptions.

christx11 said:
Me thinks this work really bothers someone.
That is usually a good sign. As Gurdjieff once mentioned, the work would weed out the true seekers and the false seekers, imo.

Laura said:
That's why "Frank" was sent... that's why Vincent Bridges and Storm Bear Williams are full-time attack bots (which means they are paid to do what they do) with a whole back-up crew that they may not even be aware of (don't "need to know") doing regular sniping.
That make me wonder as regards to "baked" members here. Are they being paid to annoy us or just for the fun out of it? I think both (or more).
 
Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent

Thank you for your post. Here is Part 1 of my reaction.

Your post is well documented, although I do not agree with the theory. There we go.

Laura said:
Certainly true alchemist do not worship anything. It is only the puffers that think that physical immortality is the objective. It isn't.
Here is Jung:

'The lapis-Christ-parallel plays an important role in Jakob Boehme, but I do not want to go into this here. A characteristic passage is to be found in 'de signatura rerum'. It is clear enough from this material what the ultimate aim of alchemy really was: it was trying to produce a subtile body, a transfigured and resurrected body, i.e. a body that was at the same time spirit. In this it finds common ground with Chinese Alchemy, as we have learned from the secret of the Golden Flower. There the goal is the diamond body, in other words, the attainment of immortality through the transformation of the body.'[Jung]
The most 'alchemical' Gospel is the unedited Gospel of Thomas. Here is the introduction and the first logon of that Gospel:

These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded.

1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."
Then, you gave the following quote:

"…those who study only the material elements can at best discover only half the mystery...
I would like to ad that those who study material elements at all (within alchemy) understand nothing of the mystery.

Because although elements can be transmuted, as science has proved in the 20th Century, alchemy is about saving the body:

'Pliny the Elder, who lived between AD 23 and 79, wrote extensively on metallurgy, but not on alchemy, or the idea of changing one metal into another. The fact that he did not relate alchemy to the transformation of metals is not surprising, since this was a later addition.'[Gardiner and Osborn]
You then gave this quote (edited by me):
"Man's quest for gold (and immortality) is often his undoing, for he mistakes the alchemical processes, believing them to be purely material.
There is (and this is very Nietzschean) nothing wrong with matter (no matter, no mind; otherwise, how could drugs or alchohol change that mind?).

One must not forget that the so called alchemist ignored the very old teachings on physical immortality because they were not alchemists. The alchemist is always as succesfull alchemist, as is pointed out in the Forbidden Letters or one of the articles on those Letters. Now, if the alchemist would admit that the Stone is a real Stone, and the immortality a real, physical, individual one then the public would say: show us. And then it would show that he is not an alchemist at all. Here is Duret, quoted in part 2 of the Reich-article:


1.

"Nobody knows what alchemy is about for sure and in detail, untill somebody
actually produces that famous Stone of Transmutation in the true oven of the
alchemist: the body. That man, and that man alone, will know the secret."[A.
Duret]

2.

"It could very well be, that the alchemical secret is not revealed till the
End of Time."[A. Duret]

3.

"The Stone as a powder is another example of the ignorance of the
alchemists. They weren't able to produce a stone in their ovens, but they
were able to produce a powder. And so the stone all of a sudden became a
powder. Or a 'Stone which isn't a Stone'."[A. Duret]
Because there is no powder. The powder is a later invention of frustrated alchemists who weren't able to produce a stone. Because only mother Nature and the alchemists can make stones. Sure, you can bake a brick, but that's stupid.

So, no, he must not...

"...have the magnetic power to attract and coagulate invisible astral elements."
On we go. You say:

Now, I have met and worked with a number of real alchemists here in France. A transmutation of metals was performed in my kitchen fireplace last year with about 25 people present. I have shared with these individuals printed copies of the material you are promoting and, without exception, they read it, laugh and point out that such nonsense is useful because it separates the wheat from the chaff.
This is surprising, because Gary Osborn too has shown the Letters to several alchemists. And this is what he said on July 7th 2007:

"I too have approached several alchemists about the Letters, and they all have been in favour of them; that what is being divulged in them is true. One said that the secrets of Alchemy are no longer secret. Simple as that."
And Gary Osborn is not just somebody. Neither is John Woodhouse. He sent me an email with the following statement:

The Letters are impeccable. But you have to be extraordinarily well read to realize that."
And this is what Antoine de la Censerie says, having consulted French alcehmists too.

In the autumn of 2006 I finally decided to consult three famous French experts on alchemy on the Forbidden Letters. They were all three highly alarmed, but wouldn't allow me to quote them in public at the same time. And if you think that is strange, Gary Osborn has too approached several alchemists.
And they all wrote back that 'the Letters contain many truths', but...


'...that they wouldn't want to go into detail.' [Osborn]


One of the respondents nevertheless went so far as to say that...


'... the Forbidden Letters by the Paris 4 are the conclusion to the mysteries of alchemy.'
 
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