pornography

[Mountain Crown]

[QUOTE author=Perceval]Has anyone practiced it?[/QUOTE]

I used to practice it.

There was a time when my personal life, work and avocation caused a severe burn-out. The mental, physical and emotional drain was critical. I suffered exhaustion, frequent crippling back pain, loss of will for living, empty feelings for self and others. There were dark circles under my eyes that scared the beejeebees out of me.

Being acquainted with some Taoist teachings from my youth I decided to learn Tai Chi. Due to lack of funds I had to quit before I became efficient with the entire form, but on the advice of my sensei studied Chi Nei Kung which I could practice on my own. I also read a lot of Taoist literature.

Not only did I stop masturbating forever, but I also learned to move the sexual essence. There's two basic place to direct the jing at first. I was able to store it at the Dan Tien where the body naturely recycles it. Then I became quite good at bringing it up my spine to the base of my brain. After a time it became important (for reasons I'll not elaborate on now) to carry it to the crown of my head, down past the eyes and (through a connection created by the tip of my tongue at my palate) down the front of my torso to the Dan Tien.

Chi Nei Kung and this practice restored my health, made me younger in all respects, and though I didn't acquire superpowers, I had strength and agility beyond what I thought I could ever possess. I remember running up flights of stairs to the elevated subway in Queens, two or three steps at a time, in a matter of a few seconds without any increase of breath or heart rate.

There were other results which need not be bothered with here.

It must be said that this practice is not without danger, for an undisciplined focus or cavalier attitude can result in trapping powerful energy in certain places of the body which without proper help can cause serious health problems, heart disease and insanity to mention two.

 

[D Rusak]

Hi,

I'd like to mention that there has been quite some discussion about this subject on the site _reuniting.info, which I believe has been mentioned in several other areas. I think you've definitely a valid point about this as a myth to promote population control, but, perhaps don't throw out the baby with the bathwater? The author of the website, Marnia Robinson, has a book out where she hypothesizes that not orgasming is beneficial for human health and relationships. If one conserves their "jing" they are conserving their "life force" as it were- maybe no food for 4D STS? Anyway her book is reasonably well researched and looks at a variety of cultures/philosophies.

A side note about "jing"- it is seen that one is born with a certain amount or capacity for jing at birth. One can replenish it to an amount, but only fill it up so much, apparently. So this is where the idea of conservation comes in I guess.

As for my own practice, I can't entirely say about retention as I am a girl, but I have experimented without masturbating a while back when I first came across the book. I definitely noticed an increase in energy after a while of not. There is a definite fatigue level I have experienced at least, when one does not. She also talks about a period after about 2 weeks that is sort of a threshold, a way to describe this is sort of like PMS in women? then if one survives this it is easier not to regress.

Also from a Chinese perspective, we are required to do meditation class and practice at my acupuncture/TCM school. There is one particular meditation that apparently if you do it 100 days in a row, when you are not sexually active, it "opens" up something, and boosts your energy or whatever. I'm pretty skeptical of this but figured I might as well try since I'm not doing anything sexual (also that way I don't have to keep record of when I didn't practice. I'm THAT lazy). Will let you know when the door to 4D opens up (or whatever

Edit: fixed website name

 

[Piotrek]

[quote author=Perceval]
Let me ask it the other way around. Is there any evidence, scientific or otherwise, to suggest there is any "jing" retention? Has anyone practiced it? What were the results? Did anyone get super-powers? Or even improvements in any area of their lives?
[/quote]
To be honest, I am not aware of any 'mainstream' western scientific research being done in the areas of Jing, Qi and Shen.
As to practice, from what I've been able to gather, the Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) schools in China (as well as some in the U.S.) require Qi Gong practice and restraint with sexual activity (i.e. moderation for those in relationships) - as D Rusak mentioned.
I've been involved in Taoist theory and practice (through Kung Fu, Qi Gong and a bit of TCM via Tui Na) for a little bit and, along the lines of Count Morona's post, have also experienced significant increase in energy and clearness of mind.
Also, there are plenty of books on this topic from Mantak Chia. I'm aware of at least one of his students dying of some sort of cancer a few years back, which leads me to question either the student's ability to correctly apply his knowledge, or the knowledge being transmitted (or its completeness).

Having said that, my question's purpose was to solicit sources for the 'disinformation' statement so that I could verify whatever I've come in contact with so far, not to be challenging or disrespectful in any way. If it came across in that manner, I apologize.

This forum has an incredible amount of information contained within it, and since the Taoist approach to life (I don't mean it as a religion, I mean it as The Work) is very appealing to me, I wanted to ask those with a bit more objective experience about this (Jing retention) and other aspects of it.

P

 

[Renaissance]

I'd like to mention that there has been quite some discussion about this subject on the site _reuniting.com, which I believe has been mentioned in several other areas. I think you've definitely a valid point about this as a myth to promote population control, but, perhaps don't throw out the baby with the bathwater? The author of the website, Marnia Robinson, has a book out where she hypothesizes that not orgasming is beneficial for human health and relationships. If one conserves their "jing" they are conserving their "life force" as it were- maybe no food for 4D STS? Anyway her book is reasonably well researched and looks at a variety of cultures/philosophies.

Just to clarify, her website is reuniting.info instead of .com. Marnia's husband actually runs the yourbrainonporn.com website as they've had a lot of overlap between the two sites. Both sites have some excellent articles and are really worth checking out.

 

[Oxajil]

Re: pornography

Concerning the 'Jing retention'. As with every practice, I think it is important to know what it does on all levels (concerning 'spiritual' practices, I find it is important to know what happens on a biological level as that seems to be 'forgotten' mostly). If one does something, and achieves great results, it doesn't mean everything's great on all levels. See for example how vegetarians feel great on a plant-based diet, without knowing how some of their brains are shrinking all the while, they probably don't sense this because I think that their cells don't have the gear to communicate (danger) signals that well: and this, among others, is a result of the lack of knowledge of what eating solely plants really does to them. Even though they might seem bubbly, positive, and feel great.

And if we take EE as an example, it isn't just plain magic, there is knowledge behind it which highly explains why someone feels a certain thing, the knowledge of the nervous system and more; the Polyvagal Theory, and the practice which shows good results. And this all together is what I think matters.

So whatever practice you're doing, I think it's safe and important, for your body and soul, to know what you're doing, what's happening and what you could expect from that act.

 

[cubbex]

I'd like to mention that there has been quite some discussion about this subject on the site _reuniting.com, which I believe has been mentioned in several other areas. I think you've definitely a valid point about this as a myth to promote population control, but, perhaps don't throw out the baby with the bathwater? The author of the website, Marnia Robinson, has a book out where she hypothesizes that not orgasming is beneficial for human health and relationships. If one conserves their "jing" they are conserving their "life force" as it were- maybe no food for 4D STS? Anyway her book is reasonably well researched and looks at a variety of cultures/philosophies.

Just to clarify, her website is reuniting.info instead of .com. Marnia's husband actually runs the yourbrainonporn.com website as they've had a lot of overlap between the two sites. Both sites have some excellent articles and are really worth checking out.

And her husband says that having (I didn't understand very well) some kind of sexual relationship without orgasm, helps to improve ties in the relationship

I have a question, how does that relate with the effect psychopaths (male ones) have on their prays? I've read that, having sex is the way they hook up women, along with their talking.

 

[Joe]

It must be said that this practice is not without danger, for an undisciplined focus or cavalier attitude can result in trapping powerful energy in certain places of the body which without proper help can cause serious health problems, heart disease and insanity to mention two.

That sounds like a good reason not to bother. In addition, from our point of view, which is based on the C's teachings and those of Gurdjieff and other sources, the Work on the self is pursued chiefly via the conditions of external life and working to 'clean our machines'. When pursued diligently via self-observation and conscious suffering etc. the resulting adjusting of the 'centers' to their proper functioning and the creation of a 'real I' take place automatically. We do have EE as a more direct way of doing 'inner work', but even that is a largely 'passive' practice and does not involve any effort to consciously manipulate internal or external energies, which, almost by definition, are beyond our grasp.

 

[Joe]

Re: pornography

So whatever practice you're doing, I think it's safe and important, for your body and soul, to know what you're doing, what's happening and what you could expect from that act.

And that's where I think the problem with this 'jing retention' lies. I don't think anyone can really know for sure what they are doing, (if they are doing anything at all), because there is also the problem of the subjectivity of the experience. The point here is that our goal is to develop a system of Work on the self that does not come down to each person deciding for themselves if it works or not based on their subjective experience.

 

[Chu]

Chi Nei Kung and this practice restored my health, made me younger in all respects, and though I didn't acquire superpowers, I had strength and agility beyond what I thought I could ever possess. I remember running up flights of stairs to the elevated subway in Queens, two or three steps at a time, in a matter of a few seconds without any increase of breath or heart rate.

And this is another problem, I think. Almost every time somebody talks about experiences with sexual energy and this kind of "exercises", there seems to be an egocentric-bodycentric flavor to it. Not just you Count Morona, but you just provided a good example.

In the Work, results count, and a way to know whether we are in the right track or not is to see how our personal relationships improve (or deteriorate or stay the same). How we are able to see reality (and for that the network is our best way to tell).

It is interesting to note that hardly anyone speaking of this type of activity first says "it allowed me to be closer to my partner, friends, give more instead of taking all the time, etc." That, IMO, speaks volumes as to why it is more of a self-serving "energy shifting", and why it can actually not only be pointless but also dangerous and more damaging for some people who are already suffering.

My 2 cents.

 

[Don Genaro]

Another thing worth considering is the fact that from the "Taoist" sexual practice information I've read over the years I've noticed that in a lot of the talk of "withholding" the semen, we are told that we can make love for longer and still orgasm. First off, the fact that you may be able to orgasm without ejaculation suggests that 4d STS still can have a feast. I think the ejaculation part may be just a 3d result. I've suspected for some time that 4d sts can feed off the energy being produced during sexual arousal and not just at the moment of orgasm.
Also, as Ailén has said, where is the focus in all the literature on becoming closer to your partner?" for example. While I have seen this mentioned "briefly" in a lot of literature, I think there is a big difference between what the general literature says and what Marnia Robinson says in Cupid's Poisoned Arrow. While the general literature prescribes "being careful at first" i.e. whilst learning the techniques, the goal always seems to be "more active sex", just without orgasm, whereas in CPA the goal seems to be more about "decreasing desire and increasing affection". In other words, as she guides you through the process, she's not saying "eventually you'll be able to go at it like rabbits" rather the message seems to be "eventually you won't care so much about the physical aspect so much," which to me, ties in very closely with what the C's have said:

950107
Q: (L) Of all the modes of sexual expression, which one is more likely to advance one to 4th density more rapidly?
A: Total celibacy.
Q: (D) Well then I'm okay! [laughter] (V) Can you explain why total celibacy?
A: Because you are then "letting go" of the cravings for physicality.

I highly recommend her book as only after reading it did I understand why the "Taoist" teachings always felt somehow lacking in something important. They still encourage sex addiction, albeit with a more spiritual slant osit

 

[Joe]

950107
Q: (L) Of all the modes of sexual expression, which one is more likely to advance one to 4th density more rapidly?
A: Total celibacy.
Q: (D) Well then I'm okay! [laughter] (V) Can you explain why total celibacy?
A: Because you are then "letting go" of the cravings for physicality.

I highly recommend her book as only after reading it did I understand why the "Taoist" teachings always felt somehow lacking in something important. They still encourage sex addiction, albeit with a more spiritual slant osit

[/quote]

Just a note on this excerpt. Laura has said that that many answers in the particular session(including that one) were very likely corrupted by 'frank'.

 

[Don Genaro]

950107
Q: (L) Of all the modes of sexual expression, which one is more likely to advance one to 4th density more rapidly?
A: Total celibacy.
Q: (D) Well then I'm okay! [laughter] (V) Can you explain why total celibacy?
A: Because you are then "letting go" of the cravings for physicality.

I highly recommend her book as only after reading it did I understand why the "Taoist" teachings always felt somehow lacking in something important. They still encourage sex addiction, albeit with a more spiritual slant osit

Just a note on this excerpt. Laura has said that that many answers in the particular session(including that one) were very likely corrupted by 'frank'.

Yeah I'm sorry I was aware of that- I should have specified that I wasn't really referring to the celibacy issue. I just included it for context but should have added a note! I know there's a whole thread on that here. What I was trying to emphasize was the "letting go of the cravings for physicality" quote, particularly in light of what we are discovering about other physical cravings, food being the big one lately and how it seems that as we begin to eat properly, other physical cravings e.g. sugar start to disappear. In that sense I got from CPA that this seemed to be a central idea to the book that differentiates it from others that talk about Taoist theory. I hope that clarifies it a bit more!

 

[mkrnhr]

A healthy relationship between a man and a woman is based upon a balance between receiving and giving for each one. The retention thing may be seen symbolically as a refusal to give, where only self-gratification is searched, not the "gratification" of the other being. There is definitely a self-centered dynamics into it. In this case, one is using the other for self-gratification, which may be viewed in this context as just another form of pornography.

 

[Don Genaro]

A healthy relationship between a man and a woman is based upon a balance between receiving and giving for each one. The retention thing may be seen symbolically as a refusal to give, where only self-gratification is searched, not the "gratification" of the other being. There is definitely a self-centered dynamics into it. In this case, one is using the other for self-gratification, which may be viewed in this context as just another form of pornography.

Exactly, here's an example. It's an excerpt from the book"The Tao of Health, Sex and Longevity" by Daniel Reid.

The Way of Yin and Yang
The way of Yin and Yang is of paramount importance in the Taoist system of health and longevity. It is also one of the most ancient elements of Chinese thought on record. The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine (Huang Ti Nei Ching) and the invaluable Classic of the Plain Girl (Su Nu Ching), both of which date from the 3rd to 4th centuries BC, are based on materials handed down through ancient China's Imperial Archives ever since the time of the Yellow Emperor and his various Taoist advisors.
As with the Tao itself, the essential elements in the Tao of Yin and Yang are balance, harmony and union of opposites:

(Sounds nice so far doesn't it?)

For a man to nurture his male powers, he must nourish his yang essence by absorbing Yin essence. When men and women indulge freely in sex, exchanging their bodily fluids and breathing each other's breath, it is like fire and water meeting in such perfect proportions that neither one defeats the other. Man and woman should ebb and flow in intercourse like the waves and currents of the sea, first one way then another, but always in harmony with the Great Tide.

In this manner, they may continue all night long, constantly nourishing and preserving their precious vital essence, curing all ailments, and promoting long life. Without this basic harmony of Ying and Yang, neither medicines refined from the five minerals, nor the most potent aphrodisiacs, will be of any use. If the vital essences are dried up due to excessive emission or complete neglect, they can never be revived. [Su Nu Ching].
When sex is performed according to the Way, it becomes an inexhaustible source of energy, like a well that never runs dry, rather than an exhausting ordeal. However, sex can also 'drown' you if you don't know how to 'stay afloat' during intercourse.
Unless you are a highly accomplished adept who has mastered the transmutation of sexual energy into pure spiritual power, celibacy will harm your health as much as reckless indulgence:

Yellow Emperor: I do not wish to make love any more.

Plain Girl: As human beings, we must not do anything that contradicts nature. Now, your majesty wishes to refrain from sexual intercourse and that is entirely against nature. When Yin and Yang are not in contact, they cannot complement and harmonize each other. We breath in order to exchange stale old air for fresh new air. When the Jade Stem is not active, it will atrophy. That is why it must be exercised regularly. If a man can learn to control and regulate his ejaculations during sex, he may derive great benefits from this practice. The retention of semen is highly beneficial to man's health. [Su Nu Ching].

Sounds a bit like guilt inspiring propaganda to me.

Preserving semen lies at the heart of Taoist bedroom arts, as illustrated in the following line from a commentary on the adept Pein Chang's biography in Dynastic History of the Later Han:

The art of the bedroom consists of suppressing emissions, absorbing the woman's fluids, and making semen return to strengthen the brain, thereby attaining longevity.

Thus a man must treasure and conserve his semen during intercourse; whenever he does emit it, the loss must be compensated by absorbing the 'essence' of woman's secretions. That is why ejaculations through masturbation or homosexual relations are regarded as being especially harmful to the Yang essence and energy.
By now, male readers must be wondering, 'How can there be pleasure in sex without ejaculation?'

This question also occurred to the Yellow Emperor after his advisors encouraged him to start regulating his ejaculations. The Emperors inquiry on this matter sparked the following exchange between two of his closest counselors, Peng-Tze and the Rainbow Girl, recorded in Secrets of the Jade Bedroom:

Rainbow Girl: it is generally assumed that a man gains great pleasure from ejaculation. But when he learns the Tao of Yin and Yang, he will ejaculate less and less. Will this not diminish his pleasure as well?

Peng-Tze: Not at all! After ejaculating, a man feels tired, his ears buzz, his eyes get heavy, and he longs for sleep. He is thirsty and his limbs feel week and stiff. By ejaculating, he enjoys a brief moment of sensation but suffers long hours of weariness as a result. This is no true pleasure!

However, if a man regulates his ejaculations to an absolute minimum and retains his semen, his body will grow strong, his mind will clear, and his vision and hearing will improve. While a man must occasionally deny himself the fleeting sensation of ejaculation, his love for women will gently increase. He will feel as if could never get enough of her. Is that not the true and lasting "pleasure of sex"?

I think the general disinfo message here is that you don't need orgasm but you'll be able to have loads of sex and get healthier from it, i.e. you need sex to have all these benefits.

The last point is a particularly subtle and significant observation; a man who maintains consistently high levels of testosterone, sperm, semen and other male-essence by practicing ejaculation control will experience an overwhelming enhancement in his love and affection for his woman. He well also gain the capacity to act upon that loving urge over and over again.

Here he mentions love and affection for his woman and in the next sentence talks about acting on the "loving urge" (read "physical craving") over and over again.

Compare this with the adolescent attitude toward sex revealed in the best-selling book Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Sex, written by the self-styled American sex expert David Rueben. He writes:

In eating, the first bite is tastiest, the first helping the most appetizing. The third helping of strawberry shortcake just doesn't taste as good as the first time around. The third copulation of the evening is more for the record books than the enjoyment of the participants.

Ruben writes from the point of view of a man who has already ejaculated twice and must now force himself to rise to the occasion once more, 'for the record books'. He doesn't even consider the feelings and point of view of the woman, for whom a third round is no effort whatsoever and who, like water slowly simmering over a fire, is still hot after the first two rounds. For a man who knows the Tao of Yin and Yang, there is always room for a 'third helping of strawberry shortcake'.

In Taoist lovemaking, the emphasis lies not on romantic love but rather on correct technique; therefore it's like a football game or cricket match; wanting to win is not enough- both teams have to be 'in shape', in practice, and know the rules of the game. This approach is well illustrated by the traditional Chinese literary analogy of the boudoir as a 'flowery battlefield'. But the Chinese image of sex as battle is not at all the same notion as the Western 'battle between the sexes'.

Here the author seems to be trying to "differentiate between two different concepts. I don't think there's a huge difference as he explains it. He goes on to say:

The latter indicates a fundamental conflict of wills and severe competition for sexual supremacy that extends beyond the boudoir, while the Chinese metaphor stresses the practical, tactical aspects of actual intercourse- what the Chinese call 'bedroom strategy'. In the Mind Dynasty erotic novel Prayer Mat of the Flesh by Lee Yu, we find an amusing rendition of this martial approach to sexual relations:

Apart from the number of combatants involved, are there really any difference between battles fought by armies and those fought in bed? In both cases, the commanders first priority if to survey the terrain and assess the opponent. In sexual encounters, it is the hills and valleys of the woman that first attract the mans attention, while she is most curious about the size and firepower of his weapons. Who will advance and who will retreat? In bed, as in war, it is just as important to know yourself as it is to know your opponent.

Unlike battles found with swords and spears, however, it is woman who hold the advantage over men in sexual engagements, and therefore men require the most 'training' to prepare themselves for battle. Most men, however, fondly regard themselves as 'stronger' than women and therefore consider their five-minute blitzkriegs in bed to be par for the course.

And the difference is...?

In order to fully satisfy his partner in bed, as well as nurture rather than deplete his essence and energy, a man must learn to prolong the act as long, and resume it as often, as is necessary for his partner to experience complete satisfaction.

As I mentioned already, I don't think 4d STS feeding is as concerned as we are with orgasm but rather I suspect that they feed off the "whole act" particularly if you factor in that this type of exercise is geared towards multiple orgasms for women and even men in many cases (just without ejaculation).

The Plain Girl calls this method 'contact without leakage'. In Secrets of the Jade Bedroom, the Taoist sage Peng-Tze urges men to treasure and preserve their semen as a fundamental source of life:

In sexual intercourse, semen must be regarded as a most precious substance. By saving it, a man protects his very life. Whenever he does ejaculate, the loss of semen must then be compensated by absorbing the woman's essence.

All in all, sounds quite pathological to me!

 

[Al Today]

Just quit... What.!?.!?.!?

There has been a discussion. 'Tis time to make YOUR choice.