Potential USA Civil War is a rising topic
- Thread starter PopHistorian
- Start date
Indeed, Prof. David Betz's UK civil war hypothesis/warning has been gathering attention by his several, recent, higher-profile podcast appearances, which have been reference and recycled by others. If you'd like a brief and clear summation of Betz's ideas, see this 14-minute video from Russell Brand, who chose short, high signal-to-noise clips of Betz himself, and other information potentially supportive of Betz's concerns.
Tucker Carlson's latest episode (October 9, 2025) is about potential civil war in the USA. Here are notes I took.
Why do nations move toward civil war?
- Diversity, not just racial or religious. People feel they have nothing in common with those who live near them.
- Demographic change: Sixty years ago US was 90% White Christian, now 40%. Whether good or bad, those who did not like 90% White Christian got what they wanted. (Those numbers seem a bit exaggerated on either end, but the trend is correct. The point is that lack of homogeneity is risky)
- There is no ethno-religious majority in the US. No central political culture around which society orbits. (My observation: Americanism, which has been under attack for, as Yuri Bezmenov suggested, over 70 years, is not what it was.)
- Races, religions, backgrounds, languages, classes, beliefs too many to catalogue are all prominent, challenging what had been dominant. Nothing to hold them together, and no leaders really suggesting or trying to unify around anything.
- Unless unified by something, particularly national identity, that obligates people to care for each other's welfare, the country will split apart. "Entropy" was the word used.
- Civil Wars are the worst, bloodiest, most disruptive, and their after-effects last many generations.
- When cities fall apart, the country does, too. US cities are descending into chaos.
- Intolerable, decadent behavior is easily observable on city streets. Doing nothing about it is cruel to those who follow the rules and keep society functioning.
- Political Left disguises indifference to fellow citizens from under a mask and the language of compassion.
- Seeing Latin American immigrants beginning to engage in street protests is something not seen with any regularity for more than a hundred years. Antifa and the Portland police, for example, appear to be on the same side.
- What follows chaos is imposed order, dictatorship.
- Restoring order now isn't a step toward totalitarianism, but rather, it may be the only way to prevent it. Needed now.
- City/country and state-to-state differences widening.
- US no longer unified by media it consumes. Media now exacerbates differences.
- Either there's a federal gov't that presides over all states or there isn't. States now openly flouting federal law. (Downgrading crimes, not prosecuting crimes, decriminalization of federally prohibited drugs, defense of illegal immigration [even criminal ones], etc.)
- Fairness under the law is not being observed. Playing favorites is the rule in too many places.
- No one knows how many people live in the USA. Leaders could discover this but they don't, or they don't say that they know.
- From MSN today: It is extremely rare for grand juries to reject indictments, but they have done so in cases of the Trump administration charging people for attacking ICE. My interpretation is that this suggests a further breakdown of the legal system.
- "If he (Trump) doesn't solve it (enforcement of federal law), then we're in for disunion."
Some earlier cases in which a US president has sent federal troops to restore order (though some Democrats say it's never occurred):
- In September 1957, the 101st Airborne Division was sent by Pres. Eisenhower to Little Rock to enforce federal school-desegregation law when the local authorities failed to control the mob of protesters at the high school there.
- In September 1962, JFK sent 31,000 soldiers to a college campus (of 6000), UMiss/Oxford, to uphold the right of a black student to enroll. Massive overkill with tanks and machine guns, but people applauded it.
As I see it, Trump can enforce federal law, including arresting elected officials who obstruct it, but there's enormous risk in doing this because though most might welcome it, the media will make it appear otherwise, the Democratic party's mouthpieces are all very far left wing and prone to hyperbole, and the populace is already divided as deeply as it's ever been in our lifetimes. Plus, there's a noticeably high acceptance (observed in rhetoric) particularly among those on the political left, of violence as a legitimate political tool. Not good. The US needs cooling, but Trump appears determined, regardless of whether he's legally right, to inflame divisions.
Why do nations move toward civil war?
- Diversity, not just racial or religious. People feel they have nothing in common with those who live near them.
- Demographic change: Sixty years ago US was 90% White Christian, now 40%. Whether good or bad, those who did not like 90% White Christian got what they wanted. (Those numbers seem a bit exaggerated on either end, but the trend is correct. The point is that lack of homogeneity is risky)
- There is no ethno-religious majority in the US. No central political culture around which society orbits. (My observation: Americanism, which has been under attack for, as Yuri Bezmenov suggested, over 70 years, is not what it was.)
- Races, religions, backgrounds, languages, classes, beliefs too many to catalogue are all prominent, challenging what had been dominant. Nothing to hold them together, and no leaders really suggesting or trying to unify around anything.
- Unless unified by something, particularly national identity, that obligates people to care for each other's welfare, the country will split apart. "Entropy" was the word used.
- Civil Wars are the worst, bloodiest, most disruptive, and their after-effects last many generations.
- When cities fall apart, the country does, too. US cities are descending into chaos.
- Intolerable, decadent behavior is easily observable on city streets. Doing nothing about it is cruel to those who follow the rules and keep society functioning.
- Political Left disguises indifference to fellow citizens from under a mask and the language of compassion.
- Seeing Latin American immigrants beginning to engage in street protests is something not seen with any regularity for more than a hundred years. Antifa and the Portland police, for example, appear to be on the same side.
- What follows chaos is imposed order, dictatorship.
- Restoring order now isn't a step toward totalitarianism, but rather, it may be the only way to prevent it. Needed now.
- City/country and state-to-state differences widening.
- US no longer unified by media it consumes. Media now exacerbates differences.
- Either there's a federal gov't that presides over all states or there isn't. States now openly flouting federal law. (Downgrading crimes, not prosecuting crimes, decriminalization of federally prohibited drugs, defense of illegal immigration [even criminal ones], etc.)
- Fairness under the law is not being observed. Playing favorites is the rule in too many places.
- No one knows how many people live in the USA. Leaders could discover this but they don't, or they don't say that they know.
- From MSN today: It is extremely rare for grand juries to reject indictments, but they have done so in cases of the Trump administration charging people for attacking ICE. My interpretation is that this suggests a further breakdown of the legal system.
- "If he (Trump) doesn't solve it (enforcement of federal law), then we're in for disunion."
Some earlier cases in which a US president has sent federal troops to restore order (though some Democrats say it's never occurred):
- In September 1957, the 101st Airborne Division was sent by Pres. Eisenhower to Little Rock to enforce federal school-desegregation law when the local authorities failed to control the mob of protesters at the high school there.
- In September 1962, JFK sent 31,000 soldiers to a college campus (of 6000), UMiss/Oxford, to uphold the right of a black student to enroll. Massive overkill with tanks and machine guns, but people applauded it.
As I see it, Trump can enforce federal law, including arresting elected officials who obstruct it, but there's enormous risk in doing this because though most might welcome it, the media will make it appear otherwise, the Democratic party's mouthpieces are all very far left wing and prone to hyperbole, and the populace is already divided as deeply as it's ever been in our lifetimes. Plus, there's a noticeably high acceptance (observed in rhetoric) particularly among those on the political left, of violence as a legitimate political tool. Not good. The US needs cooling, but Trump appears determined, regardless of whether he's legally right, to inflame divisions.
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