Possible war between Kosovo and Serbia?

Tito was a badass, kicked off German and Italian fascists as well as domestic collaborators, and supposedly sad to Stalin after his assassins failed to kill Tito a couple of times at least, that it's about time to stop sending his killers otherwise he (Tito) will send one of his to Moscow and he won't need to send another one there! Yeah, Tito was a positive big-time badass for his epoch!
 
Tito was a badass, kicked off German and Italian fascists as well as domestic collaborators, and supposedly sad to Stalin after his assassins failed to kill Tito a couple of times at least, that it's about time to stop sending his killers otherwise he (Tito) will send one of his to Moscow and he won't need to send another one there! Yeah, Tito was a positive big-time badass for his epoch!
There is a theory that Tito is behind Stalin's death. As you said Stalin was found dead with a note from Tito. There is a slovenian scholar Jože Pirhjavec who claims along with Roy Medvedev that the proxy was Beria, one of the most gruesome person living in last century. But I can't tell this is true. Many people find Tito genius because of his juggling between East and West and exploating third world countries for oil. He was most likely a psychopath like all dictators. He was a spy for Russia when young, also for Brittain, there was called Walter. Every country that was in WWII had a huge growth in 60's and 70's. It was golden age for everybody. Also I was watching a documentary about our car industry, it was made because Tito owned a lot of money to US and he thought he will return something from selling Yugo's abroad. When he saw how the car looks like :lol: , his hopes crushed and he died soon afterwards. You should only praise Yugoslavia for peace between it's countries but nothing more guys.
 
There is a theory that Tito is behind Stalin's death. As you said Stalin was found dead with a note from Tito. There is a slovenian scholar Jože Pirhjavec who claims along with Roy Medvedev that the proxy was Beria, one of the most gruesome person living in last century. But I can't tell this is true. Many people find Tito genius because of his juggling between East and West and exploating third world countries for oil. He was most likely a psychopath like all dictators. He was a spy for Russia when young, also for Brittain, there was called Walter. Every country that was in WWII had a huge growth in 60's and 70's. It was golden age for everybody. Also I was watching a documentary about our car industry, it was made because Tito owned a lot of money to US and he thought he will return something from selling Yugo's abroad. When he saw how the car looks like :lol: , his hopes crushed and he died soon afterwards. You should only praise Yugoslavia for peace between it's countries but nothing more guys.
From the last session:
Q: (Niall) Was Stalin poisoned?

A: Yes

Q: (Niall) By who?

A: Agents.

Q: (L) Joe, you think it was Britain?

(Niall) Officially, he just died.

(Joe) I think it was English people.

(Niall) There is a conspiracy theory in Russia that it was MI6.

(L) Okay, are they close to the truth?

A: Close

;-)


As for the economic growth of Yugoslavia in the 60s and early 70s fact is that its growth was higher than German or French or Italian at that time. It did make a lot of eyebrows rise in the west back then. Tito surely wasn't a Psychopath, he was an autocratic leader, who believed in socialism and he was truly Yugoslav in his political persuasion. Of course, that second Yugoslavia was not perfect, but perhaps it was the best that the south Slavic nations could create considering the turbulent history of this region. You should take into account historical circumstances in this region as well as the interests of major players in order to objectively assess recent history played here.
 
From the last session:
Q: (Niall) Was Stalin poisoned?

A: Yes

Q: (Niall) By who?

A: Agents.

Q: (L) Joe, you think it was Britain?

(Niall) Officially, he just died.

(Joe) I think it was English people.

(Niall) There is a conspiracy theory in Russia that it was MI6.

(L) Okay, are they close to the truth?

A: Close

;-)


As for the economic growth of Yugoslavia in the 60s and early 70s fact is that its growth was higher than German or French or Italian at that time. It did make a lot of eyebrows rise in the west back then. Tito surely wasn't a Psychopath, he was an autocratic leader, who believed in socialism and he was truly Yugoslav in his political persuasion. Of course, that second Yugoslavia was not perfect, but perhaps it was the best that the south Slavic nations could create considering the turbulent history of this region. You should take into account historical circumstances in this region as well as the interests of major players in order to objectively assess recent history played here.
I don't know, there was so many people tortured and murdered behind this regime that weren't heavy nationalists or nazi supporters so, that raises my concerns. I've seen the session :-), just wanted to share the one of the theories.
 
Can you tell us a bit more about Tito and Yugoslavia. I think that overall he was a good guy and it was a good country, hence their destruction, but I don't have a lot of knowledge about these topics.
What follows is not about Tito entirely (I need to dig further), but it might be interesting to read, nonetheless. They are all from Réseau Voltaire (except for the last link). Reading them, it seems to me that Tito might not have been the man we learnt he was, a bit like for Gaddafi...

According to this article, Tito was part of the Non-Aligned Movement (or NAM) with Nasser, Nehru et Sihanouk (published on September 2012):

Washington’s double-take at the Non-Aligned Movement revival

Historically, the Non-Aligned Movement created by Nasser, Nehru, Tito, Sukarno and Nkrumah in 1961 aimed at asserting the independence and sovereignty of nations beyond the logic of military pacts. During the Cold War, its members were the military allies neither of the United States nor of the Soviet Union. However, since Soviet imperialism confined itself to exercising dominion over the countries liberated by the Red Army during World War II, the Non-Aligned Movement had more to fear from U.S. imperialism and French and British sub-imperialisms than the Soviet Union with which the member countries often made political alliances.

There is also this one published in January 2013:

Greater Albania: a United States project against the Orthodox world?

During the Balkan War in 1913, Serbs still constitute the majority of the population. In 1941, Kosovo is attached to the Greater Albania (already) fascist Italian protectorate. After the war, Tito would prohibit Albanian immigration since Yugoslavia, according to him, could be strong only if Serbia were as weak as possible. In 1974, it is he who attributes to Kosovo autonomous province status which would be removed by Slobodan Milosevic in 1989, while the Serbs already composed no more than 15% of the population.

Or this one published in September 2012:

The NAM Summit, Iran, and Syria: A Coup against the West?

THE GENESIS OF THE NON-ALIGNED MOVEMENT AND THIRD WORLD

The Non-Aligned Movement and concept of a “Third World” have their roots in the period of de-colonization after the Second World War when the empires of Western Europe began to crumble and formally end. This superficially represented an end to the domination of the weak by the strong. In reality, colonialism was merely substituted with foreign aid and loans by the declining empires. In this context, the British would offer aid to their former colonies while the French and Dutch would do the same with their former colonies to maintain control over them. Thus, the exploitation never truly ended and the world was maintained in a state of disequilibrium. The United Nations was also hostage to the big powers and ignored many important issues concerning places like Africa and Latin America.

What brought the formation of the NAM about was firstly the rejection of domination and interference by the countries of the “Global North” - a term that will be defined shortly - and the concept of co-existence that India and China carved out in 1954 when New Delhi recognized Tibet as a part of China.

The NAM started as an Asian initiative, which sought to address the tense relations between China and the US on one hand and China’s relations with other Asian powers on the other hand. The newly independent Asian states wanted to avoid any ratcheting up of the Cold War in their continent, especially after the disastrous US-led military intervention in Korea, or the manipulation of India and Indonesia as buffer states against the People’s Republic of China. This Asian initiative quickly broadened and gained the support of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Egypt, and the various leaders of the nationalist independence movements in Africa that were fighting for their liberation against NATO countries like Britain, France, and Portugal.

Yugoslavian President Josip Broz Tito, Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, and Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser were the three main forces behind the organization’s creation. Kwame Nkrumah, the Marxist pan-African leader of Ghana, and Ahmed Sukarno, the leader of Indonesia, would also put their weight behind the NAM and join Tito, Nehru, and Nasser. These leaders and their countries did not view the Cold War as an ideological struggle. This was a smokescreen. The Cold War was a power struggle from their perspectives and ideology was merely used as a justification.
Sin-titulo-11-a32cb.jpg

From left to right: Jawaharlal Nehru, Kwame Nkrumah, Gamal Abdel Nasser, Ahmed Sukarno and Josip Broz Tito.

[...]

The first NAM summit would be held in the Yugoslavian capital of Belgrade in 1961 under the chairmanship of Marshall Tito. The summit in Belgrade would call for an end to all empires and colonization. Tito, Nehru, Nasser, Nkrumah, Sukarno and other NAM leaders would demand that Western Europeans end their colonial roles in Africa and let African peoples decide their own fates.

Today looks like a "déjà vu"...

And this one published on October 2009:

The Return of the Non-Aligned Movement?

[...] The five founding fathers of Bandung — Josif Broz Tito of Yugoslavia, Jawaharlal Nehru of India, Gamal Nasser of Egypt, Sukarno of Indonesia, and Kwame Nkrumah of Ghana — imagined a powerful military, political, and economical alliance that could balance United States and Soviet Union. This strong alliance was never built. [...]

And this one published on September 2009:

Remarks by Muammar al-Gaddafi to the 64th UN General Assembly

Then there is the former Yugoslavia. No country was as peaceful as Yugoslavia, constructed step by step and piece by piece after being destroyed by Hitler. We destroyed it, as if we were doing the same job as Hitler. Tito built that peaceful country step by step and brick by brick and then we arrived and broke it apart for imperialistic, personal interests. How can we be complacent about that? Why can we not be satisfied? If a peaceful country like Yugoslavia faced such a tragedy, the General Assembly should have an investigation and should decide who should be tried before the International Criminal Court.

And that one that could be of interest. It is written by Fidel Castro Ruz, at the moment of the Bosnian War, I think from the reading. It was published in October 2007 (but is archives) and may shed light on what is going on:

A silent complicity

The world cannot afford to let the tragedy of NATO’s war against Yugoslavia be forgotten due to the silence of those who were actors and accomplices of that brutal genocide.

President Clinton, National Security Advisor Sandy Berger, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and other close collaborators of the President, including the person who was ordered by Berger not to take notes when Cuba was discussed, were at the meeting Clinton held with Aznar in the White House on April 13, 1999, where the decision to intensify the bombings was made, and Aznar suggested that Serbian television, radio and other facilities be bombed, in actions that would take the lives of innumerable defenseless civilians.

Some of them, through press statements or in a book or memoir, may have individually written about the adventure, but none focused on the real danger and suicidal wars that the United States is leading the world to. The publication of the existing secret documents could be the legacy of a President in 200 years from now, when, judging by the pace we’re going at, there will no longer be any publicity or readers.

Less than ten years have since gone by.

In Europe and elsewhere they have many accomplices keeping silence.

After my third message was sent to Milosevic, Italy’s Minister of Transportation visited Cuba. I met with him on March 30, 1999 and directly discussed the issue of the war against Yugoslavia.

What follows is a summary of what I said to him, according to the notes taken during our conversation, in the presence of my Office staff and officials from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs:

“I began by asking why they had invaded Serbia and how they were going to reach a settlement. I told him that, in my opinion, it had been a great mistake and that, were the Serbs to offer resistance, they would run into a cul-de-sac. Why did Europe need to dismantle Yugoslavia, which had implemented many reforms and which, strictly speaking –the Cold War having ended– could not be labeled a communist state and, much less, an enemy of Europe? I explained that, in order to satisfy the German government’s demand, Europe had encouraged and supported the separation of Croatia, where, during World War II, Nazi Germany organized the fearful chetniks, groups which perpetrated countless crimes and massacres against the Serbs and the liberation movement headed by Tito.

“Due to this complacency and lack of political foresight, in the prevailing euphoria of the days when the socialist block and the Soviet Union were in a crisis, Europe dismantled Yugoslavia. This resulted in bloody episodes and, specially, in the long and violent war in Bosnia and, ultimately, in NATO’s current war against Serbia. By then, Macedonia’s separation had also taken place, which meant the mutilation of the greater part of the Yugoslav Federation. Only Serbia, Montenegro and Kosovo remained.

As everyone knows, for decades Kosovo’s population of Albanian descent grew uninterruptedly until it became the broad majority. In Tito’s lifetime, long before his death, many Serbian families left Kosovo seeking safety faced with the numerous acts of violence that extremist groups from Kosovo committed against them. At that time, in Kosovo, the Serbs were subjected to what today is called ethnic cleansing.

“Yugoslavia’s unnecessary and bloody disintegration encouraged and unleashed the underlying conflicts between the majority, of Albanian descent, and Kosovo’s Serbian minority, conflicts which are at the root of the current problem.

The Serbian people are the essential core of what remains of the former Yugoslavia. They are a combative and courageous people who have been profoundly humiliated. I was convinced that, offered ample autonomy, Serbia would have accepted an honorable and peaceful settlement of the conflicts in Kosovo.

“Kosovo’s moderate groups, acting in an intelligent and constructive fashion, supported this settlement, as the presence of a broad majority of Albanian descent would, sooner or later, make the peaceful emergence of an independent state possible. Europe knows perfectly well that Kosovo’s extremist groups did not want this settlement; they demanded immediate independence and, because of this, wanted the intervention of NATO forces.

It is unfair to lay all of the responsibility on Serbia. Serbia has not invaded any sovereign country. What it has done, in essence, is oppose the military presence of foreign troops in its territory. For months, in recent weeks particularly, it has known nothing but constant threats. Its unconditional surrender was urged. No country can be treated like that, let alone the people who, in the days of Europe’s occupation, fought most heroically against the Nazis and have ample experience in irregular warfare.

“If the Serbs resist –and I am convinced that they will resist– NATO will have no other option but to commit genocide, but such an action would fail, for two reasons:

“Firstly: they would be unable to defeat the Serbian people if the latter applied all of its experience and irregular warfare doctrine.

“Secondly: Public opinion in NATO member countries themselves would not allow such an action.

“Armored divisions, stealth bombers, tomahawk, cruise missiles or any other so-called intelligent weapon would not suffice. A missile or bomb would have to be launched for every person capable of carrying a rifle, a bazooka or a portable anti-aircraft weapon. All of NATO’s power would, in this case, be useless. There are star wars and there are ground wars. All high-tech equipment notwithstanding, individual combatants would be the most important element in this type of war.

Beyond Kosovo, a much more serious problem is emerging, to the detriment of Europe’s and the world’s interests. Russia has been humiliated terribly. NATO has already advanced to the borders of what was once the Soviet Union and it is promising to include other states of the former socialist block, and even Baltic countries that were part of the Soviet Union. Russians have every reason to think they will not stop until they reach the walls of the Kremlin.

Like the Serbs, the Russians are a Slavic people and this sense of identity is very strong among these peoples. The attacks on Serbia are profoundly humiliating for them and, more than any other action, they have produced deep and justified feelings of insecurity, not only among the Russians but in India and China as well, and these countries will undoubtedly attempt to ally themselves to Russia to guarantee their security. I doubt the Russians would cease to do whatever is necessary to retain a response capability which would be their sole guarantee in this situation.

“Neither Europe nor the world, with their current and overwhelming economic problems, would gain anything through such a course of action.

“A few days ago, in the early morning of March 26, while returning from Colombia to Russia before schedule, the President of the Russian Federation’s State DUMA, Guennadi Selezniov, made a stopover at Havana’s airport. I took up these issues with him of my own initiative. I told him no military solution was possible, that, without a doubt, any effort to offer Serbia military aid would inevitably lead to a general war, as the only means available to wage such a war today are not conventional. I said also that the battle was of a political, not military, nature.

“Selezniov publicly expressed this point of view I shared with him.

“Both, Europe and the world are duty-bound to find such a settlement, which, though difficult and complex, is perfectly possible. If, rather than devote all their efforts to threatening Serbia with terrible bombings, they had brought pressures to bear on extremists in Kosovo, such a settlement could have been reached. Only NATO can contain extremists in Kosovo through frank and uncompromising efforts. It is not a question of using weapons to achieve this, but, rather, of warning the extremists in such a way that they will be certain, beyond all doubt, that they do not have NATO’s support. There is no question that the bombs that have been dropped on Serbia for a week now will never contribute to these dissuasive efforts.

“In addition to this, I believe it is a serious political mistake that the United States and Europe should try to keep Russia on the edge of the precipice in economic terms by imposing it the International Monetary Fund’s unviable formulas.

The West makes no mention of the 300 billion dollars that have been stolen from Russia and relocated to Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Austria and other countries. This is fifteen times the miserable 20-billion-dollar loan that the International Monetary Fund has been discussing for months now. The West, which recommended or imposed these models and policies on Russia, shares in the responsibility for this ruthless plundering of Russia’s wealth.

“An internal explosion in Russia would be catastrophic. This is coupled with NATO’s encroachment, which I’ve already mentioned, the proposal to cancel the Strategic Anti-Missile Defense Agreement and, now, the incredible humiliation surrounding the attack launched by NATO’s powerful forces against a small country like Serbia.

“I told him I was against all kinds of genocide or slaughters, regardless of the perpetrator, and that all ethnic groups and religions, without exception, are deserving of the right to life, culture and peace.

“If I have taken the liberty of explaining this, it is because I feel it is my duty to warn you of these dangers and of the need to solve them. To lay these issues on the table does no harm to anyone and can, on the contrary, benefit everyone. I again expressed my conviction that the Serbs would resist, and that a peaceful settlement was, in my opinion, feasible, even though negotiating with a country on which thousands of bombs had been dropped and whose honor, dignity and economy had been dealt a harsh blow was by no means easy.

“NATO has practically no more military targets to strike, perhaps only concentrated or moving troops remain, and the easiest thing for these troops would be to split up to wage another type of war in which they cannot be destroyed by air strikes.

“Europe knows that ground combat would be very costly in terms of human lives and, what’s more, futile. I added that, were the Serbs to deploy the strategy we would use in our country in the event of an invasion by the United States, an area in which they have already shown extraordinary experience, NATO’s war would be futile and repulsive, an act of genocide in the heart of Europe destined to be condemned everywhere”.

Today is a glorious day for our country, the day in which Carlos Manuel de Céspedes began Cuba’s war of independence against the Spanish metropolis.

He was a source of inspiration for the generations of Cubans who came after him. What he taught us was the duty to reflect on and confront the dangers that menace the human species today.
--------------------------------------------

Source
Cuban Agency News

And about the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia from 1945 to 1990, from this French Website (translated with Deepl):

Three "Yugoslavias" can be distinguished. The first (which took the name Kingdom of Yugoslavia in 1929 in the inter-war period) was dominated by the Serbian monarchy. The second, the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, over which Tito ruled until his death in 1980, ended in 1991 with the secession of Slovenia and Croatia, followed by the declarations of independence of Macedonia and Bosnia-Herzegovina. Serbia and Montenegro then proclaimed the third Yugoslavia: the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, which essentially corresponds to the reign of Slobodan Milosevic (1992-2000). On 14 February 2003, the FRY was officially named the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro (2003-2006). However, after this probationary period, on 21 May 2006, a referendum on Montenegrin independence was held in that republic, in which the pro-independence camp won, resulting in the states of Montenegro and Serbia becoming independent.

1 - A federation of six republics

At the time of its creation in November 1945 by the Croatian communist leader Josip Broz (Tito), the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was a federation of six republics and two autonomous regions. The ethnic composition of the country of 23 million inhabitants was relatively complex, with more than 20 language communities. In the former Yugoslavia, the word minority was never used in legal texts, but rather the terms nation and nationality. There were six nations corresponding to ethnic Slavs: Serbs, Croats, Macedonians, Slovenes, Montenegrins and 'Muslims' (Slavs of the Muslim religion speaking a strongly Turkicised Croatian). Serbs and Croats alone made up 66% of the population. The Serbo-Croatian of Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina was written in the Latin alphabet, that of Serbia and Montenegro in Cyrillic.

yougoslavie-1945-1991.GIF


According to the constitution of the time, each of the - Slavic - nations had, at least in principle, a republic:

- Serbia for Serbs; two autonomous regions (Vojvodina for Hungarians and Kosovo for Albanians);
- Croatia for Croats;
- Macedonia for Macedonians;
- Slovenia for Slovenes;
- Montenegro for Montenegrins;
- Bosnia and Herzegovina for the Bosnian Muslims.

Today, all these republics have become independent states: Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia, Slovenia, Montenegro and Bosnia-Herzegovina.

As for nationalities, they corresponded to communities whose composition was not of Slavic origin: Albanians (Kosovo), Hungarians (Vojvodina), Bulgarians, Czechs, Romanians, Italians, Germans, Ruthenians, Turks, Ukrainians, Vlachs, Gypsies (Romani), etc. That said, historically speaking, Bulgarians, Czechs, Ruthenians and Ukrainians were still Slavic peoples! Moreover, the former Titist Yugoslavia was a very multilingual country and the formally recognised "ethnic" republics did not always correspond to reality. With the exception of Slovenia and a little bit of Kosovo, the populations in each of the Yugoslav republics remained very diverse almost everywhere, especially in Bosnia-Herzegovina and Vojvodina, but also in Croatia and Serbia, to the extent that many citizens preferred to declare themselves as 'Yugoslavs' during the federal censuses.

2 The three official languages

The Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia had several constitutional provisions on language. For example, Article 131 of the 1971 Constitution stated that Serbo-Croatian, Slovene and Macedonian were the languages to be used by the federal state in communicating with the peoples of Yugoslavia. However, practice has shown that the federal state sometimes communicated in Albanian and Hungarian in areas where these nationalities were concentrated. The facts also showed that the federal state did not always comply with constitutional requirements.

The autonomous republics and regions (Vojvodina and Kosovo) had their own constitutions and legislated on language matters; they could recognise languages without federal status. These were therefore autonomous legislations from those of the federal government, but both remained generally compatible and relatively harmonised. With the exception of the autonomous region of Vojvodina, all other states had only one official language throughout their territory, although this did not prevent some of the languages of the 'nationalities' from obtaining co-official status locally, especially in the autonomous communities. This co-official status did not involve the federal state or a republic, but a commune or municipality.
 
Tito was a badass, kicked off German and Italian fascists as well as domestic collaborators, and supposedly sad to Stalin after his assassins failed to kill Tito a couple of times at least, that it's about time to stop sending his killers otherwise he (Tito) will send one of his to Moscow and he won't need to send another one there! Yeah, Tito was a positive big-time badass for his epoch!

And likely ordered mass execution of tens of tousands of surrendered soldiers and civilians in Bleiburg repatriations after the end of World War 2. And created artificial state that was bound to fall apart because it was built on mass graves of past and then present and no strong common bounding agent amongst the nations that made so called Yugoslavia, except Tito himself, who like typical communist ruled through censorship, forbidding any oposition to the party line. Free thought was strictly forbidden, and that alone, IMO, was reason enough why ex Yu was bound to fail. Nothing built on lies lasts.
 
And likely ordered mass execution of tens of tousands of surrendered soldiers and civilians in Bleiburg repatriations after the end of World War 2. And created artificial state that was bound to fall apart because it was built on mass graves of past and then present and no strong common bounding agent amongst the nations that made so called Yugoslavia, except Tito himself, who like typical communist ruled through censorship, forbidding any oposition to the party line. Free thought was strictly forbidden, and that alone, IMO, was reason enough why ex Yu was bound to fail. Nothing built on lies lasts.
And now 30 years later we have strong, independent, prosperous democratic countries without governments censoring free thinking? Political opposition exists on paper and mutual hatred and nationalism are constantly fired up by 'democratic' politicians! Not to mention that most of today's countries succeeding Yugoslavia have risen from mutual bloodbath claiming tens of thousands of innocent lives, burned towns and villages, ordered by the same 'democratic' politicians, no matter if it were 'ours' or 'theirs'! Yeah, quite a difference indeed!
 
And now 30 years later we have strong, independent, prosperous democratic countries without governments censoring free thinking? Political opposition exists on paper and mutual hatred and nationalism are constantly fired up by 'democratic' politicians! Not to mention that most of today's countries succeeding Yugoslavia have risen from mutual bloodbath claiming tens of thousands of innocent lives, burned towns and villages, ordered by the same 'democratic' politicians, no matter if it were 'ours' or 'theirs'! Yeah, quite a difference indeed!
Just because the current 'state' is psychopathic and corrupt doesn't justify 'the state' you compare it with. Maybe both are/were negative and maybe we should focus on what we want that is positive and how we can create it, instead of comparing one negative thing/state with the other, and thus give it energy, when we can give that energy to a positive focus instead, now in the present.
 
Just because the current 'state' is psychopathic and corrupt doesn't justify 'the state' you compare it with. Maybe both are/were negative and maybe we should focus on what we want that is positive and how we can create it, instead of comparing one negative thing/state with the other, and thus give it energy, when we can give that energy to a positive focus instead, now in the present.
It has nothing to do with comparing negativities! It's plain facts and knowledge of recent history! When talking about WWII atrocities committed by Tito's army, which by no means were justifiable or legal even for that time, you have to know all historical circumstances and chain of events that have brought such a response from the victorious force. As I said before, Yugoslavia surely wasn't perfect, but when it was created it was perhaps the best solution considering the circumstances that governed back then.
And yes, it's possible to compare countries that have succeded Yugoslavia with Yugoslavia itself, especially after 1960. when a lot of statistical data are available for comparison. The fact is that the union of South Slavic nations called Yugoslavia was much more powerful and had more influence over international politics than any of its successors have now. In relative terms, Yugoslavia was a big country and it could provide safety for its people not to become slaves of western consumerism and rampant globalization, that's why it was disassembled in the first place. To create something positive doesn't suffice only to focus on positivity! You should know what you want to achieve and knowing objective history is a prerequisite to DO something positive for that matter!
 
Reading all the posts so far ... I can say the emotional state of the Yugoslavian people IS VERY COMPLICATED ... very sad ... very sad ... that is what makes me soooo sad and more and more depressed ... beyond the will to explain to anyone anything ... because all other, who was right who is wrong etc is a waste of time and energy that will lead to nonproductive destructive conflict ... and it is not about positive negative things etc ... it is that our soul is confused.

For my fellows Croats, Serbians and all Yugoslavs, I can feel you all and hear all your words ... our minds and hearts are such a place of emotional confusion ... we are like a bubbling alchemical pot of humanity ... it is unbearable to watch this human potential we have, that is imploding in moments when we need to become mature ... it is painful to watch how new beautiful branches of real humans still branching form our wilderness, but due to our emotional collective chaos, it will be cut completely soon by the liberal modernist western "orders" and democracy ... That is why I found it difficult and misleading to post any historical or factual "evidence" of this or that reason to hate or outsmart each other.

Once we can endure, without feeling attacked, our emotional responses to the trauma we all still live, we could maybe find time to see what in our history was a written narative to keep us constantly in this state of emotional bubbling.

If there is a common will to walk through painful collective emotional drama, then it will make sense ... but ... again, I remember the Kusturica movies ... emotional chaos - it is a dangerous field no one want to step in knowing that can be literally killed in 2 am drunk. So no one want's even to lead or start anything like that ....

Reading, I needed to hear this song ... I am posting this song here as that is what Yugoslavia was


for those who want to translate lyrics
in short, the refrain said - Hey-hey brigade! They build their country with their heart—

And yes, I know, I know .. this was also part of socialist propaganda, and TITO for sure was also a masonic PTB agent; and through research of one group of researchers, there is even some speculation of possible eugenic genetic manipulation that TITO and Šubašić were twin brothers, some go that far to start to investigate was TITO maybe partly TESLA son or DNA manipulated continuation of Tesla DNA ... etc etc ... so as you can see and most of you know, we can speculate from fiction to reality that will look even more like science fiction to some and 100% truth to other, as we are living inside of s social experiment anyway...

Talking about TITO, now I can say he was more of PUTIN orientation, and at the end of the day, he was the most respected leader of the modern world and he managed to introduce in social programming of humans the most human framework that deserves analysis. And he, as a person, is also worthy of analysis as Yugoslavia was HIS PROJECTION. That is why I suggested watching the movie "CINEMA COMUNISTO" for a broader audience and to take that as a start to unveil who we are to us.

Analyzing TITO as a phenomenon can take us to a more valuable road of the tremendous importance of Human origins through TITO as a phenomenon.

If we consider that our entire civilization is indeed STS "propaganda" or "narative" or STS MATRIX, then in that case, this song, or even this movie, and especially the theme of the movie, like any entertainment like movies and pop music in the west, was part of social programing propaganda, but what we managed to make in Yugoslavia was the best option for humanity.

I am not that old, but even though I lived up to my 18th in Yugoslavia, I can still feel the emotional and human strength that society gave me. In Yugoslavia, everyone was important as a part of a big engine called society, we were raised to be respectful, to value education and humanitarian gestures, to respect ourselves, and to know how to protect against the attack on our human values by greed and laziness, and we know how to help those in need, and we all felt like we are part of a life bigger than ourselves, we all feel like we are here born to give our best to the world and to be heroes in our potential and to contribute to the creation of our land and the whole world in that regard, and we were all happy to be part of that ... and it wasn't a dream, It was our objective reality.

We didn't have a dictatorship; everyone was offered one of the best educations in the world for free, and many literary nonliterate peasant families got a chance to send kids literary from caves to school; that is how an army of innovators and intuitive geniuses, who contributed to world development, was raised in Yugoslavia, and it was a chance many will never ever get in the centuries of the class society, etc etc. Every woman was respected even more than in any feminist framework; mothers, teachers, and woman leaders were respected, but man's role in society was emphasized on masculine protective hard work etc etc ... it was a progressive traditional model of human circular society.

We had one of the best medical care in the world for free, we produced everything we needed, and we were a country of happy people, which sounds almost like a joke today when I see the reflection of the entire corporate state of mind that is today present in Croatia. Depressed elders and youth and kids are run in chains to work for lunch by those parts of our nation that are entirely predatory oriented and run by greed and overworking terrorism of "western efficiency" and "project management", imposed on us by EU funds and extremely predatory government.

I started to observe the possibility of already created AI in human forms here in Yugoslavia. I feel like my government is already crafted a group of Anunnaki-like automatons, hahaha put here to enslave us little read head people, to min gold for them - by the way Tito was a small red hair .... etc etc ...

All in all, I feel our meta position in global change now is a topic we need to raft through together ... and I am more for option if we can analyze our position within a more extensive Globalist agenda, instead of clearing which lies imposed on us is more or less lie.
 

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Russian ambassador in Belgrade: Russian military base can be created in Serbia

A Russian military base can be created on the territory of Serbia – this is the sovereign affair of the country. This, according to SM News, was announced by the Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Russia in Belgrade Alexander Botsan-Kharchenko.

“As for the joint humanitarian center, it exists and operates for crisis response in the event of a humanitarian catastrophe,” he added.

 
Can you tell us a bit more about Tito and Yugoslavia. I think that overall he was a good guy and it was a good country, hence their destruction, but I don't have a lot of knowledge about these topics.
In General He was a controversal guy with a big influence in the whole world. It was a Great country. Back then Macedonia was part of that big State. Now, 33 years after that Macedonia is not even 1% of what it was back then as a part of Yugoslavia.
Was it already the infiltration of the west to this part of the world, or did he manages to get out of their mind control, or was he super mind controlled... so:
There are lot of controversal stories about Tito. Some of them tells that the real Josip Broz was killed in WWI and that later some other person from the intelligence community was implanted with his identity.
The "original" Josip Broz was a simple man from the rural Croatia. From what I know , later, Tito was a man with good education and aristocratic manners. Who he really was is still a secret.
Maybe it is a good question to be asked on some of the future Sessions.
Tito was a badass, kicked off German and Italian fascists as well as domestic collaborators, and supposedly sad to Stalin after his assassins failed to kill Tito a couple of times at least, that it's about time to stop sending his killers otherwise he (Tito) will send one of his to Moscow and he won't need to send another one there! Yeah, Tito was a positive big-time badass for his epoch!
Yup, He had a big influence and respect all over the world.
Tito surely wasn't a Psychopath, he was an autocratic leader, who believed in socialism and he was truly Yugoslav in his political persuasion.
Agree with that.
In Yugoslavia, everyone was important as a part of a big engine called society, we were raised to be respectful, to value education and humanitarian gestures, to respect ourselves, and to know how to protect against the attack on our human values by greed and laziness, and we know how to help those in need, and we all felt like we are part of a life bigger than ourselves, we all feel like we are here born to give our best to the world and to be heroes in our potential and to contribute to the creation of our land and the whole world in that regard, and we were all happy to be part of that ... and it wasn't a dream, It was our objective reality.

We had one of the best medical care in the world for free, we produced everything we needed, and we were a country of happy people, which sounds almost like a joke today when I see the reflection of the entire corporate state of mind that is today present in Croatia.
It is the same situation in the all ex-Yu republics.

Back in time, I remember the medical care system and the educational system. Today in Macedonia as one of the ex-Yu republics, almost all hospitals and medical facilities schools and universities are build when we were part of Yugoslavia. Today, 33 years after we became 'independent banana state' we are still using the same buildings which are now ruined because not even one government since than found any money to repair them or reconstruct them. They didn't even think about building new ones.
So, the golden era for the people from Yogoslavia ended when Tito died, and country started slowly to disintegrate.
 
Back in time, I remember the medical care system and the educational system. Today in Macedonia as one of the ex-Yu republics, almost all hospitals and medical facilities schools and universities are build when we were part of Yugoslavia. Today, 33 years after we became 'independent banana state' we are still using the same buildings which are now ruined because not even one government since than found any money to repair them or reconstruct them. They didn't even think about building new ones.
So, the golden era for the people from Yogoslavia ended when Tito died, and country started slowly to disintegrate.
Yes, and Yugoslavia lasted only 50 years, and even after 30 years of neglecting and steeling, public hospitals and schools are still 80% better than private in terms of the expertise of doctors and teachers because people kept socialist minds and refused to be classified by money. That is proof that technology is nothing if there is no humanity to operate it, and even 30 years after, the majority of us kept those values, and raise our children like that.

Children raised like that are instinctively refusing to be corporate slaves to money, I think that up to 2022 less than 40% of the population assimilated a capitalistic mindset; that is what gives hope ...

Anyhow, yes, I agree that it is a good thing to ask C's about TITO and ABOUT YUGOSLAVIA, and is it a valuable direction to try to present to the world possible solutions for better social structures upon our experience ...
 
I'll take some flak for this, but I gotta say that Yugoslavia was not successful because of any internal reasons. It was successful because it was an agreed upon bridge between east and west and benefitted from that position. All of the progress and so called good living conditions were achieved through exorbitant loans from western countries.
There was no unemployment in Yugoslavia. How was that possible? Well, you had three or four people doing one man's work, every company had a person working the bloody cloakroom. You had cooks, nurses, dentists, all on the payroll of the company. It was a ridiculous system that worked because cheap loans were available. When Tito died, the loans got called in and the whole house of cards came crashing down.
There were no private companies, therefore no entrepreneurial drive in the economy.
It was, on the other hand, very much driven by workers sending money back to family from places like Germany. Germans welcomed Yugoslavs because they preferred them to the Turks.
All of this talk of Yugoslavia as some awesome country is the same thing as saying that life was better 200 years ago in general.
It's nonsense.

At the same time, it was unsuccessful mostly do to internal problems.
The war could have been avoided had Milosevic not fell for the US ploy of encouraging his attempt to militarily keep Croatia in the fold, or if he accepted the initiative to change the constitution to a confederacy, or if he accepted the plan to give autonomy to Croatian Serbs.
 
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