Psychopaths with 'Souls'?

[aprilfool]

In Buddhism the final goal is to reach 'enlightenment' whereby ending the eternal circular pattern of reincarnation and rejoin with the 'REAL' self.

The pursuit of enlightenment is to rid ones self of desire and basicly all that the world has to offer them. Thus with this line of thinking, would not a person on a deep spiritual path look on the outside to be a psychopath? The only distinct difference would be however the person would do no harm, would take no gifts and would give all they had to anyone that asked. However they would seek to have no attachments nor empathy or anything that could ensnare them... as these are qualities come from a world of attachement and desire. Basicly an extreme form of STO combined with a souled individual who was deep into a 'foolish' path.

Thus on the 'spectrum' of humanity, there would have to be both extremes. The very small percent of people who can attain absolute awareness and are seeking to do so without harm to others, and the very small percent of people who can abtain awareness and seek to only do for themselves (psychopathic world leaders). Therefore the free will choice for these two very opposite groups is:

a) Choose wisdom/the Absolute
b) Choose the world with absolute awareness

I believe that psychopaths that are powerful in this world, have souls. They have access to higher world knowledge than 98% of the rest of the population, therefore they are able to control vast amounts of reality. However at one point or another they made the free will choice of the world instead of the Absolute. In effect of that, they cut themselves off from that ability to ever know the Absolute.

It's the big yin yang.

Anyway just some ranting. Thanks for reading.

 

[Laura]

I think you might want to study the matter before you opine about it.

 

[aprilfool]

I think you might want to study the matter before you opine about it.

Only are my personal observations after using most of my life to study people. Thanks for your reply.

 

[domi]

I believe that psychopaths that are powerful in this world, have souls. They have access to higher world knowledge than 98% of the rest of the population, therefore they are able to control vast amounts of reality.

Martha Stout, a clinical psychologist, says:
...a person without conscience [i.e. a pschychopath], even a smart one, tends to be a shortsighted and surprisingly naive individual who eventually expires of boredom, financial ruin, or a bullet.

With that in mind, I don't really understand what you mean by "higher world knowledge".

What do you make of the genetic component of psychopathy? You say these people made a choice. Somehow this scientific fact does not rhyme with your observation. How do you resolve that?

Dominique.

 

[aprilfool]

Hi there! Thanks for your reply!

Conscience and 'soul' I believe are two entirely different 'things.' (And keep in mind, these are only my personal observations of the world.)

Conscience in my view, is something that separates us from animals. The ability to feel empathy is the most important. However soul is the little peice of *something* that is here to learn and grow, that has a solid connection still with what some people call God, what some call the Absoute or Life.

Higher 'world knowledge' is that what smart (enlightened) sociapaths have. The ability to control the masses by way of deceit, lies and diversion. They draw just the right people their direction, people who would trip over their feet just to be validated by what they see as 'a great person.' It's the dangling of the carrot stick. Not even just world leaders but anyone highly respected and wealthy. They didn't get there by being honest and doing good deeds. Remember this is a world of reflection.

If DNA draws particular 'souls' then there had to be a choice, and many choices for lifetimes of testing one's Will. However from a scientific point of view, if you were the top of your class all of your life, and because of your vast intelligence, graduated from an Ivy League school...would you use your wisdom to make lots of money and buy whatever you desired? Or would you use that intelligence to help other people, whereby avoiding the traps of desire and greed? Now let's say that you had no conscience, just a taught knowledge of good and evil. Basicly nothing upset you or made you feel ...anything empathic.... Would you use that power for the understanding you have of 'good' or would you choose wealth and power, stepping on whoever gets in your way to get it?

So, from what I've observed, sociopaths don't have a conscience, they do however have souls (well half, just as the whole of the population). It just is limited from what STO people can attain. As is talked about with "the 4 density", they will never get past that.

Having conscience (in my opinion) does not mean one has a soul. Just as saying having a soul makes one have conscience. I believe they are related, but one can exisit without the other.

Sorry if I make no sense. I love the discussion. Three weeks ago, these discussions were limited between myself and one other person. Didn't know you all exsisted!

I believe that psychopaths that are powerful in this world, have souls. They have access to higher world knowledge than 98% of the rest of the population, therefore they are able to control vast amounts of reality.

Martha Stout, a clinical psychologist, says:
...a person without conscience [i.e. a pschychopath], even a smart one, tends to be a shortsighted and surprisingly naive individual who eventually expires of boredom, financial ruin, or a bullet.

With that in mind, I don't really understand what you mean by "higher world knowledge".

What do you make of the genetic component of psychopathy? You say these people made a choice. Somehow this scientific fact does not rhyme with your observation. How do you resolve that?

Dominique.

 

[Beau]

I think you might want to study the matter before you opine about it.

Only are my personal observations after using most of my life to study people.

Perhaps your observations are incorrect? Me personally, I see no soul in these individuals.

 

[aprilfool]

That is entirely possible!

I think you might want to study the matter before you opine about it.

Only are my personal observations after using most of my life to study people.

Perhaps your observations are incorrect? Me personally, I see no soul in these individuals.

 

[foofighter]

Conscience in my view, is something that separates us from animals. The ability to feel empathy is the most important.

I would suggest that you check out the work on chimpanzees by Sally Boysen from Ohio State University on this subject. She has shown that chimpanzees can understand the emotional state of other chimpanzees and what they feel, and that they certainly can empathize with others. In one test a male subject was placed in a cage so that he could see that a "nasty doctor with a blowgun" was hiding nearby, but he himself was out of reach. When another chimp came into the cage he would then warn that other of the danger. Then they did the same thing but with another chimp that they knew the male didn't like, and in this case there were no warning signals. In this case there is then not only empathy shown in the first case, but also emotions of dislike having a distinct effect in the second. There's a number of documentaries made by Boysen that I would suggest that you check out for more details on her work on these topics.

 

[Adaryn]

The subject is complex, I don't think we can say for sure that someone has or has not a soul.
I wouldn't say that psychopaths have souls, but that SOME have souls and chose the dark/STS path. People like Raspoutin, for example, of whom Ra said in Law of One I that he was now a 4th density STS entity.
And also Hitler, as cited by the C's :

: (L) Going in a different direction for a moment, why was Hitler so determined, beyond all reason, even to his own self-destruction, to annihilate the Jews?
A: Many reasons and very complex. But, remember, while still a child, Hitler made a conscious choice to align himself with the "forces of darkness," in order to fulfill his desires for conquest and to unite the Germanic peoples. Henceforth, he was totally controlled, mind, body, and soul, by STS forces.

In this case, Hitler made the choice to align with the darkness - he was conscious. And he was a psychopath.

Hitler would be the example of someoe who has formed a black magnetic center :

Mouravieff discusses various abnormalities of the working and formation of centers in the Gnosis series. There he mentions the possibility of strong development of the negative halves of the emotional and intellectual centers along with a strong moving center.

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=151&lsel=B

Hitler is a great example of liberal emotive thinking. He could send two million jews to death, without flinching, and yet break down in tears at the sight of a dead bird. His emotions were incongruent with reality.

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/montalk_hist.htm

So the essential IMO (and as other persons have already said on this forum)is not so to determine if persons have souls or not, but rather what they do with it.
Conversedly, some people without an individual soul like OP's can be STO, and act with conscience and empathy.

As for animals, I do think certain animals have a conscience (though they still have a group soul). Animals who are close to humans like monkeys, cats and dogs. But also other animals like dolphins. But I don't believe snakes, for example, have a conscience and feel empathy. It depends on the race of animals. Probably as animals evolve, they reincarnate in other races which are closer to gaining a conscience.

 

[Ben]

Hitler is a great example of liberal emotive thinking. He could send two million jews to death, without flinching, and yet break down in tears at the sight of a dead bird. His emotions were incongruent with reality.

If this is the case then I would suggest that Hitler was not an essential psychopath. Being "controlled mind, body and soul" by STS forces suggests something more akin to posession, or at any rate some effect of his upbringing and environmental influences.

As for animals, I do think certain animals have a conscience (though they still have a group soul). Animals who are close to humans like monkeys, cats and dogs. But also other animals like dolphins. But I don't believe snakes, for example, have a conscience and feel empathy. It depends on the race of animals. Probably as animals evolve, they reincarnate in other races which are closer to gaining a conscience.

The animals which you have chosen to have conscience (with the exception of cats) are all social creatures which enhance their survival through the formation of bonds. It also happens that snakes, and all reptiles as well as fish and all animals below them, do not have the neccessary brain structures to produce higher emotions and snakes in particular enhance their survival by avoiding members of their own species. These are all factors which complicate the decision to denote a particular species as having conscience, depending on how it is defined of course. If you take the definition used by Gurdjieff, for example, then most humans are not in touch with their conscience in any consistent and objective sense.

Like beau, and probably many here, I see no indication that the psychopath is in possession of an individuated soul in any sense. The situation of the souled psychopath in which the formation of a black magnetic centre has occurred I understand to be quite rare, as described by Mouravieff. This perhaps correlates with the suggestion by Ra that the attainment of a state of 95% Service to Self (as supposedly required for 'graduation') is extremely difficult and rarely occurs.

 

[highmystica]

It seems to me that you have developed an unusual misconception regarding buddhism. Buddhism is not simply a nihilistic faith striving to become nothing, nor about escaping the world - if you consider the oaths of the bodhisattvas (saints for lack of a better word) which is to continue to incarnate in this reality even after reaching enlightenment until all sentient life has had the chance to reach enlightenment it starts to become a little more clear. The thing about transcending the ego and desire is to break free of the illusions of this world's realm and see things with a greater clarity and not be bound to that illusion. That in itself is a great level of enlightenment, but at the highest level one would indeed become one with all - at a seventh level density to use the lingo of this forum. Still, the couple tibetians I met (which were buddhist monks) weren't about "giving up on what the world had to offer" - they just found something different in what the world had to offer for them - it's all good training ;) There was nothing about them that was stoic or cold - they were simply compassion embodied, there is nothing psychopathic about that. Attachment is illusion, empathy is not - attachment comes from desire and possesiveness, empathy on the other hand is key to developing compassion. Though sometimes compassion is needed to develop empathy *shruggs*.

Considering the soul of the psychopath - being that they are a breed of OP they probably do have some degree of soul, they just refuse and strive against developing it to any degree and perhaps that is why the c's refer to them as "failed OP's". I'm not sure about that part though, I still think it is appropriate to say they don't have a soul simply because it is a fair description of their "stance" and of the complete emptiness they have inside, it might be more accurate to say entropic-OP but that would just confuse people more. Though considering them as having a negatively aligned group soul it would explain how they "know" each other.

 

[Cyre2067]

Woah noise.

Read this: http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/political_ponerology_lobaczewski.htm

and this: http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

before attempting to comment on psychopathy.

You're missing alot of data at best, at worst delibrately attempting to confuse the issue.

 

[John Chang]

The sense I get from reading the case stories of psychopaths, is that they're missing "gyros" - they don't know up from down. No reliable internal reference to use to guide their paths. So they corkscrew through life, and eventually spin and crash.

The Ra material talks about negatively polarized souls, and that there aren't that many of them around.

 

[Adaryn]

If this is the case then I would suggest that Hitler was not an essential psychopath. Being "controlled mind, body and soul" by STS forces suggests something more akin to posession, or at any rate some effect of his upbringing and environmental influences.

In the case of Hitler the C's said he made a conscious choice when he was a child, so I don't think his psychopathy was due to his upbringing, but rather that he chose before birth to align with the STS.

The situation of the souled psychopath in which the formation of a black magnetic centre has occurred I understand to be quite rare, as described by Mouravieff. This perhaps correlates with the suggestion by Ra that the attainment of a state of 95% Service to Self (as supposedly required for 'graduation') is extremely difficult and rarely occurs.

Yes you're right, the rarity of the reaching of 95% STS and the rare occurrence of people with black magnetic centers are probably related. I'm only aware of what Ra said so far, haven't read Mouravieff's books yet (only bits and pieces on the cass sites and forum). Thanks for pointing it. So I guess essential (soulless) psychopaths are dominant !

 

[Ben]

In the case of Hitler the C's said he made a conscious choice when he was a child, so I don't think his psychopathy was due to his upbringing, but rather that he chose before birth to align with the STS.

So are you saying that he made the choice when he was a child or before he was a child? What I am suggesting is the primary cause of his actions was not essential or genetic psychopathy but the events of his life, including the action of STS forces which the C's say even provided him with visions. Yes he may have chosen these circumstances before incarnation but this does not mean he was born genetically a psychopath. I referred to the quote about the dead bird which you provided because these do not resemble the actions of a psychopath, unless there are important details missing which suggest that he was feigning these emotions.