Psychopaths with 'Souls'?

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Ark
I have worked all my life with people in distress and you know, I would never judge the way they were thinking as long as they were trying to get better.

But sometimes the way one is thinking can be inseparable from "getting better", osit.

Who are we to say to someone that his way of thinking is wrong.

Who are we? People interested in objectivity. Not all things are right, and it would be foolish to ignore the evidence that points to one thing over another, and instead treat all things as equally probably to be right. Some ways of thinking ARE wrong, and there are plenty of ways to find out which ones.

They cannot have the great minds of men who work with science.

Men who work with science are just men who work with science - men who apply the scientific method and study and research something. Anyone can do that, osit, just not everyone chooses to.

I simply think that as long as people search for the truth, they are on the good road since they are at that point and we have to accept that without judging them.

Why? We don't have to accept those who say they search for truth but aren't really doing that. Why would we?

This is their truth as this point.

But there is only one truth, osit. Any other "truth" is not truth at all, but subjective reality - because in objective reality there is no mine, yours, or theirs - just what it is, osit.

 

[aristar]

ScioAgapeOmnis wrote:

But sometimes the way one is thinking can be inseparable from "getting better", osit

Like you said: SOMETIMES (But your are putting everybody on the same stand).

Who are we? People interested in objectivity. Not all things are right, and it would be foolish to ignore the evidence that points to one thing over another, and instead treat all things as equally probably to be right. Some ways of thinking ARE wrong, and there are plenty of ways to find out which ones.

Before you reach the perfect way of thinking, how were you thinking. You had to search for the truth and while doing so, you certainly made some mistakes but you gained experience unless you were born with the capacity of adult wisdom.

Why? We don't have to accept those who say they search for truth but aren't really doing that. Why would we?

You cannot say that the person is not doing that. You do not know the person.

But there is only one truth, osit. Any other "truth" is not truth at all, but subjective reality - because in objective reality there is no mine, yours, or theirs - just what it is, osit.

There is not only one truth except for those who think they are perfect and just to think of that, it scares me.
You think and talk like a person who believe in logic. Where is your heart.
I'd rather quit the forum than to be a person without heart's comprehension.

Patricia

 

[ark]

Why? We don't have to accept those who say they search for truth but aren't really doing that. Why would we?

You cannot say that the person is not doing that. You do not know the person.

You missed the point. You are generalizing without a sufficient reason. We do know that there are those who claim that they search for the truth, but they are really searching for lies to justify what they believe a priori. And THAT is the point. Therefore your conviction that all searches for truth are equally valid is simply wrong.

There is not only one truth except for those who think they are perfect and just to think of that, it scares me.
You think and talk like a person who believe in logic. Where is your heart.
I'd rather quit the forum than to be a person without heart's comprehension.

Patricia

You see Patricia, you speak as though logic always contradicts the heart. First of all not always the heart is right. Sometimes it is wrong. For intsance some people give their hearts to psychopaths. They feed them. Our culture is created to lead the heart astray into lies. That is the nature of this world. And it has worked very well for millennia. You can look about you at the state of the planet and see all those people following their "hearts" right over the cliff into the abyss of fire.

Sometimes logic is wrong. The devil is in the details. One should analyze each case. And nothing prevents you from using both logic and heart.

If you think that our heart is always right and our logic is all too often wrong - then you better quit this forum, indeed ;)

By the way, when you wrote: "I'd rather quit the forum than to be a person without heart's comprehension.
" - you were using LOGIC, not heart. Because your heart would tell you: "I better stay with this forum." Cause even if we use logic, and criticise some of your points, if you are a sincere person - we also LOVE you!

 

[aristar]

Ark wrote:

If you think that our heart is always right and our logic is all too often wrong - then you better quit this forum, indeed

You know, my english language is very limited. Of course the heart is not always right and our logic is also often wrong. I would be a very bad therapist if I ignored that point.


You see Patricia, you speak as though logic always contradicts the heart. First of all not always the heart is right. Sometimes it is wrong. For intsance some people give their hearts to psychopaths. They feed them. Our culture is created to lead the heart astray into lies. That is the nature of this world. And it has worked very well for millennia. You can look about you at the state of the planet and see all those people following their "hearts" right over the cliff into the abyss of fire.

I agree on that too. I have a son with parano

 

[ark]

I have been reading the content of this site for over a year and I agree on most things (let's say about 90%) but I do not on all. But I just cannot comment on all because of my english limitation. I am also a sincere person.
Patricia

Please, tell me about these 10% that you disgree with. If you are a sincere person, it will be certainly useful for us (and, perhaps, for you too) to learn about your point of view. We are here to learn, to find the truth. There is nothing better than a sincere discussion to do it. One of our main principles is "networking". And do not worry about your English. Many of us (and I am one of those many) have the same problem.

Is it too much of the logic and too little of the heart that bothers you? But we are trying to marry the mysterious with science. As all else has failed in this world of ours, this may be the way? Or is it something else?

 

[cubbex]

Thanks for the thread, I wanted to ask something similar in another way, but well. My question was that if a souled being without developing a connection with his/her higher centers suffering like an OP that became a sociopath or secondary psychopath, can become something like that? but reading about Hitler on this thread I think it does, more or less.

Conversedly, some people without an individual soul like OP's can be STO, and act with conscience and empathy.

May I see where did you take that? I thought OP were STS because of their nature. OPs suffer because of their needs and what they want. An OP can suffer because they can't approach their need of serving others?

 

[Graalsword]

Thanks for the thread, I wanted to ask something similar in another way, but well. My question was that if a souled being without developing a connection with his/her higher centers suffering like an OP that became a sociopath or secondary psychopath, can become something like that? but reading about Hitler on this thread I think it does, more or less.

Conversedly, some people without an individual soul like OP's can be STO, and act with conscience and empathy.

May I see where did you take that? I thought OP were STS because of their nature. OPs suffer because of their needs and what they want. An OP can suffer because they can't approach their need of serving others?

OPs are a bridge between 2D and 3D (or that was originally their function) - So if you can make certain 2D beings to act as "good boys", an OP which is closer to full 3D than an animal, can also turn into a "good boy". They can learn to behave in an empathical way. Another take, is the behaviour of certain animals that naturally seem to have certain incipient empathy towards humans and others. Also, animals tend to be very caring and kind with their own kind because that is what their genes influenced on them to ensure survival and continuance of their species. OPs could very well perceive all humans (including potentially souled ones) as their own kind, and being naturally driven to ensure survival and continuance of their species would act benevolently towards other people. Which is not necessarily higher empathy and compassion.

More over, they probably are in a developmental stage where they cannot consciously discern between STS and STO to make a conscious choice between both. So their behaviour either STS-oriented or STO-oriented may be entirely mechanical.

 

[Ben]

[quote author=Graalsword]
OPs are a bridge between 2D and 3D (or that was originally their function) - So if you can make certain 2D beings to act as "good boys", an OP which is closer to full 3D than an animal, can also turn into a "good boy".
[/quote]

Not sure exactly what you mean by this

[quote author=Graalsword]


They can learn to behave in an empathical way. Another take, is the behaviour of certain animals that naturally seem to have certain incipient empathy towards humans and others. Also, animals tend to be very caring and kind with their own kind because that is what their genes influenced on them to ensure survival and continuance of their species.

[/quote]

Says who? I haven't found this to be the case. Which animals have incipient empathy towards humans?

[quote author=Graalsword]


OPs could very well perceive all humans (including potentially souled ones) as their own kind, and being naturally driven to ensure survival and continuance of their species would act benevolently towards other people. Which is not necessarily higher empathy and compassion.

[/quote]

Why, then, would they be so easily persuaded into 'us' and 'them' thinking?

[quote author=Graalsword]

More over, they probably are in a developmental stage where they cannot consciously discern between STS and STO to make a conscious choice between both. So their behaviour either STS-oriented or STO-oriented may be entirely mechanical.
[/quote]

Doesn't this apply to non OP's as well?

 

[Nawd]

I'm going to go way off topic here for just a second, but I have a confession to make. This was MY thread back in 2006! I searched for this thread for a long time, not remembering what my guest handle (nickname) was and never ran into it again, until today.

At the time, I was utterly crushed (thank goodness) of the responces I received (because they were true - the thread didn't make much sense, and it was pretty clear I had an agenda of teaching something or being perceived as someone who knew something.) :/

But from what I remember of who I was at the time, I was sort of a self professed 'wise' person with all of the answers. *sigh* I actually waited a month to return to the SOTT site after this first post, then signed up for the yahoo group, but never typed a word for almost 2 years because I was busy reading and learning. Finally I found the courage to sign up to the forum again (2007 I believe). And I am so happy I did.

What is weird too is that I didn't really 'study with monks,' it was just meditation. I don't know why I thought that would help my agenda any. It's really kind of embarrassing. Heck my grasp of Buddism was pretty general as well and pretty off key.

So thanks for bringing this thread up again - and thanks to everyone who posted the truth to me, it helped me immeasurably! People really can change and learn. I'm still at it. :)

 

[Graalsword]

[quote author=Graalsword]
OPs are a bridge between 2D and 3D (or that was originally their function) - So if you can make certain 2D beings to act as "good boys", an OP which is closer to full 3D than an animal, can also turn into a "good boy".

Not sure exactly what you mean by this

[quote author=Graalsword]


They can learn to behave in an empathical way. Another take, is the behaviour of certain animals that naturally seem to have certain incipient empathy towards humans and others. Also, animals tend to be very caring and kind with their own kind because that is what their genes influenced on them to ensure survival and continuance of their species.

[/quote]

Says who? I haven't found this to be the case. Which animals have incipient empathy towards humans?

[quote author=Graalsword]


OPs could very well perceive all humans (including potentially souled ones) as their own kind, and being naturally driven to ensure survival and continuance of their species would act benevolently towards other people. Which is not necessarily higher empathy and compassion.

[/quote]

Why, then, would they be so easily persuaded into 'us' and 'them' thinking?

[quote author=Graalsword]

More over, they probably are in a developmental stage where they cannot consciously discern between STS and STO to make a conscious choice between both. So their behaviour either STS-oriented or STO-oriented may be entirely mechanical.
[/quote]

Doesn't this apply to non OP's as well?
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply Ben. Rereading what I wrote I think that it is mostly my assumptions. Just possible explanations that I thought, even some paragraphs of what I wrote contradicts other ones.

 

[cubbex]

I thought so, just speculation about it but the way you wrote it seemed pretty confident, but also I want to know why adaryn said that, I mean, a mod has to has his reasons to say it.

At the time, I was utterly crushed (thank goodness) of the responces I received (because they were true - the thread didn't make much sense, and it was pretty clear I had an agenda of teaching something or being perceived as someone who knew something.) :/

Yeah but apart of that the question I think it's interesting, I thought guys like Hitler don't have souls, but when I read about him reincarnating I thought that I was incorrect, so a psychopath can have a soul, but being a dysfunctional OP means that it's a soul on a dysfunctional body or corrupted DNA or something like that you know. But still after dying maybe that soul that formed a chaotic self now has to learn and became something that's not an OP. Still I try to find a logic into it, I don't know if an OP is always stuck in that level or if that OP can learn and grow up so to speak.

Let me explain this idea a little bit more. I think that by the time in a way of speaking, the soul grows and as it grows more control over itself the soul earns, maybe a soul on a level of an OP hasn't the necessary control so its behavior is determined by its DNA... but I think everyone knew this so :P maybe I'm learning a new thing today.


Edited: I wrote suck instead of stuck LOL

 

[obyvatel]

Conversedly, some people without an individual soul like OP's can be STO, and act with conscience and empathy.

May I see where did you take that? I thought OP were STS because of their nature. OPs suffer because of their needs and what they want. An OP can suffer because they can't approach their need of serving others?

OPs are a bridge between 2D and 3D (or that was originally their function) - So if you can make certain 2D beings to act as "good boys", an OP which is closer to full 3D than an animal, can also turn into a "good boy". They can learn to behave in an empathical way.

This may be a possibility which is unlikely due to the current state of affairs.

[quote author=C's Transcripts]
Q: (V) What is the "origin" of these organic portal human types? In the scheme of creation, where did they come from?
A: They were originally part of the bridge between 2nd density and 3rd density. Review transcripts on the subject of short wave cycles and long wave cycles.
..............................
Q: (L) I guess that means that the life force energy that is embodied in Organic Portals is something like the soul pool that is theorized to exist for flora and fauna. This would, of course, explain the striking and inexplicable similarity of psychopaths, that is so well defined that they only differ from one another in the way that different species of trees are different in the overall class of Tree-ness. So, if they don't have souls, where does the energy come from that recharges Organic Portals?
A: The pool you have described.
..............................
Q: (L) Okay, now we have a couple of questions we want to get to here. You said before that OP's were originally intended as a bridge between second and third densities and that they were used. Is Mouravieff right about the potential for OP's to advance being dependent upon souled beings advancement to STO at the end of this cycle?
A: Not exactly. A soul imprint can grow independent of the cycle. However, it is more likely for a soul to "grow" when interacting with 4th Density STO. STS tends to drain energy for its own use.
....................................
[/quote]

From the cassiopedia entry on short and long wave cycles

In the Cassiopaea material, the term short wave cycle refers to a mode of evolving that involves reincarnation. The term long wave cycle refers to a mode of evolution that takes place in a purely non-material state.

Present mankind takes part in the short wave cycle mode. This involves a duality of experience, including being 'food for the moon' but has the advantage of catalyzing more rapid development.

The idea is that at least a portion of present day humanity originally belonged to a group soul that decided to experience physical life for faster development. This same group then experienced the 'Fall from Eden' as a second stage of falling in order to end up in the present physical world under the influence of 4th density STS forces.

As a by-product of this, also some 2nd density (animal) life forms enjoy additional catalyst for development, even though this too may take the form of being exploited by man, similarly to how man is exploited by 4D STS as a source of etheric nourishment.

It seems that the OPs may not have been STS by origin but due to inhabiting a STS realm ruled by higher density STS, have polarized in that direction. They do not have an individuated soul and so cannot possibly make the choice to change alignment by themselves. A sleeping "souled" human is practically in a similar situation but due to possible access to higher centers through Work, theoretically the choice exists for changing orientation for them.

 

[Graalsword]

May I see where did you take that? I thought OP were STS because of their nature. OPs suffer because of their needs and what they want. An OP can suffer because they can't approach their need of serving others?

OPs are a bridge between 2D and 3D (or that was originally their function) - So if you can make certain 2D beings to act as "good boys", an OP which is closer to full 3D than an animal, can also turn into a "good boy". They can learn to behave in an empathical way.

This may be a possibility which is unlikely due to the current state of affairs.

[/quote]

Yes. What I meant is that the OP can learn to behave at least superficially in a way that is more or less beneficial to others, either because they perceive it behooves to them or it is rewarding, but always within STS "range" so to say, which of course can also apply to slept potentially souled beings.

[quote author=C's Transcripts]
Q: (V) What is the "origin" of these organic portal human types? In the scheme of creation, where did they come from?
A: They were originally part of the bridge between 2nd density and 3rd density. Review transcripts on the subject of short wave cycles and long wave cycles.
..............................
Q: (L) I guess that means that the life force energy that is embodied in Organic Portals is something like the soul pool that is theorized to exist for flora and fauna. This would, of course, explain the striking and inexplicable similarity of psychopaths, that is so well defined that they only differ from one another in the way that different species of trees are different in the overall class of Tree-ness. So, if they don't have souls, where does the energy come from that recharges Organic Portals?
A: The pool you have described.
..............................
Q: (L) Okay, now we have a couple of questions we want to get to here. You said before that OP's were originally intended as a bridge between second and third densities and that they were used. Is Mouravieff right about the potential for OP's to advance being dependent upon souled beings advancement to STO at the end of this cycle?
A: Not exactly. A soul imprint can grow independent of the cycle. However, it is more likely for a soul to "grow" when interacting with 4th Density STO. STS tends to drain energy for its own use.
....................................

From the cassiopedia entry on short and long wave cycles

In the Cassiopaea material, the term short wave cycle refers to a mode of evolving that involves reincarnation. The term long wave cycle refers to a mode of evolution that takes place in a purely non-material state.

Present mankind takes part in the short wave cycle mode. This involves a duality of experience, including being 'food for the moon' but has the advantage of catalyzing more rapid development.

The idea is that at least a portion of present day humanity originally belonged to a group soul that decided to experience physical life for faster development. This same group then experienced the 'Fall from Eden' as a second stage of falling in order to end up in the present physical world under the influence of 4th density STS forces.

As a by-product of this, also some 2nd density (animal) life forms enjoy additional catalyst for development, even though this too may take the form of being exploited by man, similarly to how man is exploited by 4D STS as a source of etheric nourishment.

It seems that the OPs may not have been STS by origin but due to inhabiting a STS realm ruled by higher density STS, have polarized in that direction. They do not have an individuated soul and so cannot possibly make the choice to change alignment by themselves. A sleeping "souled" human is practically in a similar situation but due to possible access to higher centers through Work, theoretically the choice exists for changing orientation for them.

[/quote]

You said it pretty clear ;)

 

[cubbex]

Cause even if we use logic, and criticise some of your points, if you are a sincere person - we also LOVE you!

I don't know but life is incredible... I was listening a song at 9:57 and then I just read this and I swear that I almost drop a tear.

http://youtu.be/PHZPtD9P0B8
twilight princess movement