Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine

 
cope said:
Hee Grape. We want to know what is happening. If there is something i think is missing, i will add that. So, it saves a lot of time searching through ankle deep desinformation, boring stuff etc.
Sometimes info is buried and dug up for here. Sometimes i get new sources to visit here. Just because something is posted doesn't mean i have to believe it. Always there is 'suspended belief',
new data goes in my head, but is stored on a heap until it fits somewhere becoming info.
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I completely understand. 🙂

I only offer the following to consider: IF, and it's not really an if in my view, the controllers (they don't deserve any flashier meme label in my view) are indeed working all sides of this conflict, then it becomes doubly important to avoid doing the leg work for them by continuing to spread known misinformation sometimes being presented as fact. It simply furthers their goals in spinning the internet around and around.

Internet spinning is designed to drive the reader crazy to the point they give up and set their internal /ignore-switch and ignore what the wizard behind the curtain is doing. As I community, I feel we are better than this, but that is just my personal view.

Of course free will dictates that we each get to decide how, how much, and if we get played by the controllers, right? :scooter:
 
Oh nooo, no no the belt no

Russian President Vladimir Putin was stripped of his World Taekwondo black belt following his invasion of Ukraine.

World Taekwondo announced Monday that Putin’s attacks on the eastern European nation go against the organization’s motto – "Peace is More Precious than Triumph."

www.foxnews.com

Ukraine war: Putin loses World Taekwondo black belt over invasion

Russian President Vladimir Putin was stripped of his black belt amid his invasion of Ukraine.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

:rotfl:
 
The Purple Grape said:
I have no skin in this conflict, so please do not mistake my comments for someone who is taking sides here. I'm not. It is painful to watch needless destruction and loss of life, at least for me. It's painful to see some people demonstrate glee about it. I don't live in Europe, so I am not a participant in all the various historically driven nationalistic energies I see now days in Europe. We have our hands full in the US with all the silly circular never ending soft conflicts between various factions, so I understand that it is a reality in human nature. The whole world is a train wreck for the most part at the moment and this conflict may trigger a broader conflict if all parties do not keep themselves grounded. Is that what you want to feed with your energies? Are we on a path to worship Kali or something?
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I didn't see anyone demonstrating "glee" about needless destruction and loss of life. Can you point out where you think someone did?
 
The Purple Grape said:
I completely understand. 🙂

I only offer the following to consider: IF, and it's not really an if in my view, the controllers (they don't deserve any flashier meme label in my view) are indeed working all sides of this conflict, then it becomes doubly important to avoid doing the leg work for them by continuing to spread known misinformation sometimes being presented as fact. It simply furthers their goals in spinning the internet around and around.

Internet spinning is designed to drive the reader crazy to the point they give up and set their internal /ignore-switch and ignore what the wizard behind the curtain is doing. As I community, I feel we are better than this, but that is just my personal view.

Of course free will dictates that we each get to decide how, how much, and if we get played by the controllers, right? :scooter:
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The learning curve get steeper through the years, must be really harsh to wake up now.
 
Puma said:
Oh nooo, no no the belt no

Russian President Vladimir Putin was stripped of his World Taekwondo black belt following his invasion of Ukraine.

World Taekwondo announced Monday that Putin’s attacks on the eastern European nation go against the organization’s motto – "Peace is More Precious than Triumph."
Click to expand...
And the judo belt, too.
My mainstream brother reacted "putin must be bad as even those people dislike him".
I thought this is typically how a psychopath pesters another psychopath. (not a Putin)
 
Ocean said:
Russia is banned from SWIFT.

Except for gas payments from Germany.
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Ordinary citizens of Russia will not notice the SWIFT shutdown in any way, because. it is not used between banks within the country (the system of the Central Bank of Russia is used).
SWIFT is important for Russia's foreign trade, but it also has alternatives in the form of the Russian Central Bank System (SPFS), as well as the Chinese alternative to CIPS. We can say that in the short term, turning off SWIFT for Russia's foreign trade will be painful, but not fatal.

I also heard a version that at some point Russia/Gazprom may themselves stop gas supplies to the EU and demand payment for gas not in euros/dollars, but in gold. And the EU will face a choice: either pay in gold or stay with empty gas storage facilities (they are already at a very low level) and a complete stop of the EU industry.

I already wrote that visa and mastercard cards INSIDE Russia now work without problems, but even if they are DISABLED by the USA and the EU, Russians will simply switch to MIR cards and use them. The Russian payment system MIR does not depend on the West (USA and EU), or on the East (China), or even on the Martians with the Kantekkians.
Now GooglePay, ApplePay and SamsungPay may not work (or fail) in Russia, but there is a Russian alternative to MIR Pay and it works without problems. And in the subway, you can pay with a regular contactless transport card (almost everyone has one)
I personally do not use GooglePay and others, but pay in cash.
If Western lockdowns continue, they will simply lose the Russian market

No matter how strange it may sound (for foreigners), now Russia is TECHNOLOGICALLY superior (ahead) of the US and the EU in the field of online banking and payments. Therefore, any possible "sanctions" against Russia in this area will not be critical for her.
 
The Purple Grape said:
The uncharacteristically slow advance by the Russian forces, in spite of many weeks of preparation and Ukraine taking active measures to slow their progress, leads me to believe that the Russian military leadership might be less enamored with their orders, but still must follow them. By this I mean there are many ways to slow-walk military action and maneuver to the extent they can get away with it without being ordered removed from command and shot.

Russian military doctrine is all centered around fast moving mobile combined arms operations. It does not matter if it is a company sized incursion somewhere by Russian Special Forces or division level maneuver, the doctrine remains the same. What they vary is the actual TO&B for each encounter. They have modernized weapons and training over recent decades, but they have not significantly modified doctrine.

The overnight artillery shelling of the most Russian friendly of major cities (Kharkiv) in Ukraine to me indicates there have been some commanders relieved in the field and more compliant commanders are in place now and are following normal doctrine. Initially, Russia tried to get the cities citizens to side with Russia and turn on Ukraine military forces. They did not, which was a bit of a raised eyebrow event to me. Add this to the list of mistaken assumptions on Putins part, in my view. Putin never used to make silly mistakes like this, which further reinforces my concerns that the controllers have their hooks deeply into him now.
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I'm wondering Purple Grape if you have yet considered whether there may be a central flaw in your theory (from which you then make extrapolation out onto all ensuing events, colouring them all with this error), namely that the only way to judge what is going on is in terms of:

Russian military doctrine is all centered around fast moving mobile combined arms operations.
Click to expand...

Whilst I do not doubt you may well be correct in terms of textbook war scenarios in which armies face armies, the strategic decision behind this intervention and the ensuing policy of how to implement it may be in direct contradiction of the above.

This is not a war of like/might against like, but rather as Putin said - an intervention with the primary strategic goal of the de-nazisifiaction of the Ukraine. I take this statement by Putin literally and extremely seriously - this has nothing to do with rhetoric or hyperbole. Its simple fact. The Russians intend to complete in 2022 what should have been completed in 1945.

Thus his 'war' is not with Ukraine but with up to say 8% (their claim) of the population who have been ideologically so infected and so ponerologized that they are the equivalent of a malignant cancer in the body-politic of Ukraine holding everyone else to ransom. These are his only targets root and branch.

The consequences of not doing this are clear and obvious to Putin and following various crossings of lines in the sand (most notably Zelenskyy openly declaring he was inviting the stationing of NATO nukes on Ukrainian soil) now is the time to finally act. Nazis (Ukrainian and CIA) armed with nukes on Russia's border. Not going to happen.

Therefore his military strategy is closer to a snake hunt in a chicken coop. He doesn't want to harm the chickens, he only wants to permanently remove the snakes. The problem is they are embedded in the coop and have effectively taken all the chickens hostage.

So its incredibly difficult, forensic work which by implication requires a totally different tactical battle plan.

The decision to cause minimal damage to infrastructure and the least possible civilian causalities is what I see dictating action on the ground. Methodically driving Ukrainian forces out of the countryside and encircling them into the larger cities seems to be phase one. How the Russians then deal with the forces - military and political - they hem in remains to be seen (and yes could indeed prove costly for all).

But by this reading your suggestion of the standard Russian military playbook is effectively torn up and a totally different set of tactics, priories and processes are at play.

I think we are so used to seeing various takes on 'shock and awe' that we have forgotten what any other form of tactical warfare looks like. Casting an eye back, I cannot remember a time since the late 19th century when the deliberate targeting of civilians and infrastructure was not the norm. I think Putin is trying to wind the clock back because he regards ordinary Ukrainians as his brothers and sisters - and will pay a mighty cost to protect them as best he can come what may. He's playing the long-forward game even as he fights - thinking about 50 years time when he's long gone but Russians and Ukrainians live peacefully and successfully once again, side by side, an idea and cocept those of us dragged into the perpetual tyranny of only now mattres perpetuated by 24 hour media and long-term brainwashing simply cannot contemplate.

That's my current reading for what its worth. But only time will tell...
 
Michael B-C said:
I'm wondering Purple Grape if you have yet considered whether there may be a central flaw in your theory (from which you then make extrapolation out onto all ensuing events, colouring them all with this error), namely that the only way to judge what is going on is in terms of:



Whilst I do not doubt you may well be correct in terms of textbook war scenarios in which armies face armies, the strategic decision behind this intervention and the ensuing policy of how to implement it may be in direct contradiction of the above.

This is not a war of like/might against like, but rather as Putin said - an intervention with the primary strategic goal of the de-nazisifiaction of the Ukraine. I take this statement by Putin literally and extremely seriously - this has nothing to do with rhetoric or hyperbole. Its simple fact. The Russians intend to complete in 2022 what should have been completed in 1945.

Thus his 'war' is not with Ukraine but with up to say 8% (their claim) of the population who have been ideologically so infected and so ponerologized that they are the equivalent of a malignant cancer in the body-politic of Ukraine holding everyone else to ransom. These are his only targets root and branch.

The consequences of not doing this are clear and obvious to Putin and following various crossings of lines in the sand (most notably Zelenskyy openly declaring he was inviting the stationing of NATO nukes on Ukrainian soil) now is the time to finally act. Nazis (Ukrainian and CIA) armed with nukes on Russia's border. Not going to happen.

Therefore his military strategy is closer to a snake hunt in a chicken coop. He doesn't want to harm the chickens, he only wants to permanently remove the snakes. The problem is they are embedded in the coop and have effectively taken all the chickens hostage.

So its incredibly difficult, forensic work which by implication requires a totally different tactical battle plan.

The decision to cause minimal damage to infrastructure and the least possible civilian causalities is what I see dictating action on the ground. Methodically driving Ukrainian forces out of the countryside and encircling them into the larger cities seems to be phase one. How the Russians then deal with the forces - military and political - they hem in remains to be seen (and yes could indeed prove costly for all).

But by this reading your suggestion of the standard Russian military playbook is effectively torn up and a totally different set of tactics, priories and processes are at play.

I think we are so used to seeing various takes on 'shock and awe' that we have forgotten what any other form of tactical warfare looks like. Casting an eye back, I cannot remember a time since the late 19th century when the deliberate targeting of civilians and infrastructure was not the norm. I think Putin is trying to wind the clock back because he regards ordinary Ukrainians as his brothers and sisters - and will pay a mighty cost to protect them as best he can come what may. He's playing the long-forward game even as he fights - thinking about 50 years time when he's long gone but Russians and Ukrainians live peacefully and successfully once again, side by side, an idea and cocept those of us dragged into the perpetual tyranny of only now mattres perpetuated by 24 hour media and long-term brainwashing simply cannot contemplate.

That's my current reading for what its worth. But only time will tell...
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Fair enough. We each see the events through our own senses and filter it according to our knowledge and understanding.

I do look at a wide range of factors that I can identify in the ongoing stream of information and knowledge, on any subject. I also compare factors, and make informed assessments, based on prior knowledge and understanding. If I am clueless on a topic, I stay quiet and listen and learn. Most importantly though, I watch closely for patterns of behavior, patterns in rhetoric, and spend time to contemplate what they mean and why they are present.

I generally discount the obvious misinformation, for what it is as misinformation is encouraged by the very controllers we all warn about. I consider them a distraction, but that's my take.

My comments providing a military contrast to what is being observed is shared simply because it is a valid aspect of how the conflict is prosecuted, and I did not see anyone else looking in that direction, at all. I have knowledge in this area and am simply sharing it in the discussion.

What each member makes of what I share, or anyone shares, is entirely up to them. I have no issue with someone flushing my comments completely from their mind. Ironic though some of the side swipes I have received for my comments (not you, you have been even and gracious in your comments), but that comes with the territory when you discuss in discussion forums. 🙂

As I stated, I tend to stay out of emotionally charged topics, but I listened to your encouraging me to speak my voice in this thread, so I have. 👍
 
Michael B-C said:
This is not a war of like/might against like, but rather as Putin said - an intervention with the primary strategic goal of the de-nazisifiaction of the Ukraine. I take this statement by Putin literally and extremely seriously - this has nothing to do with rhetoric or hyperbole. Its simple fact. The Russians intend to complete in 2022 what should have been completed in 1945.

Thus his 'war' is not with Ukraine but with up to say 8% (their claim) of the population who have been ideologically so infected and so ponerologized that they are the equivalent of a malignant cancer in the body-politic of Ukraine holding everyone else to ransom. These are his only targets root and branch.

Therefore his military strategy is closer to a snake hunt in a chicken coop. He doesn't want to harm the chickens, he only wants to permanently remove the snakes. The problem is they are embedded in the coop and have effectively taken all the chickens hostage.

So its incredibly difficult, forensic work which by implication requires a totally different tactical battle plan.

The decision to cause minimal damage to infrastructure and the least possible civilian causalities is what I see dictating action on the ground. Methodically driving Ukrainian forces out of the countryside and encircling them into the larger cities seems to be phase one. How the Russians then deal with the forces - military and political - they hem in remains to be seen (and yes could indeed prove costly for all).
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Thanks Michael. A couple of points:
There was an text (didn't read it yet) explaining rump Russia would be impossible to defend against a proper NATO army. If so it's a strategic must to keep Ukr regulated.

It could well be that the FSB? intelligence has made dossiers of all the evil or dangerous elements or people, the action taken is like sifting through the country to arrest them.
There was talk about tribunals. I take Putin seriously, maybe too much.

When hearing about CIA teaching Nazis warfare, it makes me feel uncomfortable, as i live in EU.
Now it could well be we get a new home base of well armed and trained nazis in Poland, these could easily get deployed further for terrorising Northern EU. Just hope Putin arrests as many as possible.
 
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Joe said:
I didn't see anyone demonstrating "glee" about needless destruction and loss of life. Can you point out where you think someone did?
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I will not single out any particular post or member as it is not my style to call out others directly. It's not productive.

I will leave it at this: there are numerous emojis in use throughout this thread, generally applied in conjunction with some photo or video of some personality or figurehead. The message in these is one of farcical dismissal and laughing and they are expressed with a clear personal bias in many cases. Consider now, that may look fine to people who have been active in discussion in the forum for some time now, but how does it look to fresh eyes coming into the forum? Not to mention the oblique insinuations in a few cases that I or other members are somehow "not awake" and how tragic that somehow is.

This may just be me, but I think on this topic, it is more productive to not make fun of events, regardless of where you stand in personal viewpoints.

But I get it. I am new here, and many of you are veterans here, and may see the humor as benign and OK, and see no currency in listening to viewpoints shared by others that somehow don't fit the narrative desired.

I only speak for myself: When people on both sides are dying in a conflict, I think it is prudent for us to be more mindful and respectful as to the loss if human life as this latest chess game by the controllers is played out.

Cheers.
 
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